Cornell hockey at MSG every year

[billhoward]

Four sellout games in seven years at Madison Square Garden shows Cornell can host an annual hockey game at the Garden. I'd love to see the Cornell-BU Red Hot Hockey series continue in odd years and the Frozen Apple series in even years. Cornell has taken to calling CU-UM the "inaugural event" in the Frozen Apple series. We need a school we don't normally play with a big NYC fan base: Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Wisconsin, BC. (The 2010 Colgate-Cornell game was a misfire. Maybe if it had been Cornell-BC as rumored, the Prudential would have sold out, too.)

A year ago I thought it was too much to do annual hockey games at MSG, especially in even years when just 2 weeks before Cornell held a weekend of parties and sports events around Cornell-Columbia football. It felt as if there were fewer Cornell-organized pre-game activities this year compared to the 2007-2009-2011 Red Hot Hockey games vs. BU but still there were enough, and it's not as if Cornellians can't find their way into bars unaided.

How would you rank the opponents Cornell should play in the Garden?

[css228]

Here are my top five non-BU opponents (a.k.a Frozen Apple opponents) and reasoning.
1) Michigan - Great hockey fan base that will travel and has a large alumni presence in NYC. I was impressed by their showing despite "The Big Game" being played the same day. Their stealing of our traditions are annoying, but in a closer game that could make for an electric atmosphere in the arena. Its a big name draw for the casual fan.
2) Wisconsin - Great hockey program year in and year out, the Kohl Center is one of the more intimidating places to play hockey in the college game. We have a history of great games with them (unfortunately usually going the wrong way) that any Lynah Faithful should appreciate. Their alumni base in NYC is probably pretty decent, and it is the kind of name that would draw both the casual and hardcore Cornell fan.
3) BC - You have to beat the best to be the best, and they're consistently among the best. While they have plenty of alumni in the NYC area, I would be a little worried about attendance as they regularly have trouble completely filling Conte Forum. That said a high profile game on Thanksgiving weekend in NYC can draw a ton of casual fans, as we have already seen over the past four times we have been there.
4) PSU - Large NYC alumni base, with the majority of the alumni base in an adjacent state. They are going to great lengths to sell their brand statewide in PA (playing some games in Wilkes-Barre, Pittsburgh, and Philadelphia this year). They are already selling out their home rink on a regular basis and I can't wait to see how they do filling Pegula Ice Rink next season. Don't underestimate the proximity factor, as the trip to NYC would be nothing for these fans. People regularly commute for the eastern half of the state (particularly Northeast PA) to NYC. If hockey catches on like it seems it will there, and they become the caliber of program of a Michigan or Wisconsin, they might even be the best option for a game in MSG. The only major problem I forsee with this is they may want to start their own Thanksgiving tradition in Philadelphia or Pittsburgh in alternating years.
5) MSU - Better Hockey fan base than the remaining major options. Ohio State and Notre Dame just don't really care about their hockey enough to guarantee a great gate.
All this said, the biggest factor is the continued Cornell attendance. Our fans filled two thirds of those stands last night at least. Picking a good opponent is important, but the most critical factor in this being successful is definitely continued enthusiasm from the fans of the Cornell Big Red.

[billhoward]

Notre Dame pulled very well the year the Irish were in the Florida Hockey Classic; I think Ohio State did, too. If tavernkeepers had a vote, they'd want one of them against Cornell. But that's not NYC. Good point about Penn State once Penn State is good enough to be a quality opponent that would help our power ranking with a Cornell win. Too bad there isn't a serious NYS hockey team with a big fan base that we don't already play in ECAC. Say Syracuse if Syracuse had a hockey team like it has a basketball team. Promote NYS hockey and all.

[Trotsky]

I would like to see a rotation of even year opponents, to cement Cornell as the MSG "home" team.  Michigan and Penn State would bring large alumni contingents out.  UConn is probably well-represented, if they become an important program after moving to Hockey East.

Restoring the old tradition of neutral site games with Army would IMHO also be good program karma, and might get some media attention.

[Aaron M. Griffin]

I do not think Michigan State travels well as much as I would love to watch a Cornell-Sparty game, and unlike programs like Michigan, Notre Dame, and Penn State MSU does not have as many national fans who are unaffiliated with the University which would be a major detriment to selling out The Garden. From what I know, I may be wrong, Sparty does not refuse to travel East, so I think Michigan State would be better suited for a biannual home-and-home at Munn and Lynah.

I hope BU-Cornell in odd years continues as RHH editions of the Frozen Apple. I think using The Garden as a "Lynah Southeast" to get out-of-conference opponents that will not abide by Schaferian game reciprocity like Cornell did with Michigan should be considered when deciding opponents in even years. Applying this idea I'm left with two non-traveling or generally non-traveling opponents that I would like to see at the Frozen Apple: Minnesota and Wisconsin.

I would love to see the Big Red face off against the Gophers. And, the choice of Wisconsin (after getting my wish for a game against Michigan), is the next logical choice. Boston College fits this regime, but I am not obsessed with playing a very successful team that has relatively mediocre fan support in a venue as large as The Garden.

Two programs that do not or have not established a non-traveling principle that I'd like to see at future editions of the Frozen Apple are Notre Dame and Penn State. Notre Dame and Penn State have a considerable prominence of fans who are otherwise unaffiliated with either university in the New York market and that combined with the popularity of hockey in New York could draw in many passerby fans. Notre Dame, like Michigan and Penn State, have large alumni bases in New York City that will help the draw of the game. Notre Dame is nearly always competitive at the highest level of the sport having two Frozen Four appearances in the last five years. I think it'd be a fun game that might not be as lively as a game against a Michigan or Wisconsin, but would sell out just as easily.

The comments from css228 are exactly correct regarding Penn State. The large alumni base of Penn Staters in New York City and the ready access to Manhattan for the largest density of Penn State alumni in Philadelphia lends itself to good attendance numbers. Penn State fans turn out for even intercollegiate dance sport. They would undoubtedly turn out for a clash between their favored school or alma mater, and Cornell,a fellow land-grant university and a collegiate hockey program has a lot of respect from current top officials in Penn State hockey.Regarding Penn State's level of competitiveness, its program sits at 5-4-0 against Division I programs including beating RIT at Blue Cross Arena and splitting with Air Force with a commanding 5-1 game. The Nittany Lions were swept by Union, but Ken Schott said that Union was lucky to have not surrended a win to a very young and very talented first-year-NCAA Penn State team. The first game of that series ended 2-0 with an ENG and Penn State suffered a disallowed goal that would have tied the game. Penn State's later season games against Ohio State or Miami in Pittsburgh, Michigan State, and Wisconsin will be telling as to if Cornell should begin considering them for the 2014 Frozen Apple (assuming that RHH is 2013).

[Jordan 04]

I do not think Michigan State travels well as much as I would love to watch a Cornell-Sparty game, and unlike programs like Michigan, Notre Dame, and Penn State MSU does not have as many national fans who are unaffiliated with the University which would be a major detriment to selling out The Garden. From what I know, I may be wrong, Sparty does not refuse to travel East, so I think Michigan State would be better suited for a biannual home-and-home at Munn and Lynah.

Didn't we do this a number of years back?

[Chris '03]

I do not think Michigan State travels well as much as I would love to watch a Cornell-Sparty game, and unlike programs like Michigan, Notre Dame, and Penn State MSU does not have as many national fans who are unaffiliated with the University which would be a major detriment to selling out The Garden. From what I know, I may be wrong, Sparty does not refuse to travel East, so I think Michigan State would be better suited for a biannual home-and-home at Munn and Lynah.

Didn't we do this a number of years back?

Yes and Schafer almost jumped from State kids. I'm pretty sure he was suspended.

[RichH]

Notre Dame Jeff Jackson is nearly always competitive at the highest level of the sport

FYP. Notre Dame, historically, has been a mediocre* program at best.

*Really wanted to use the word 'wretched,' but I'm feeling generous.

[Josh '99]

Surprised nobody mentioned North Dakota as a potential opponent.  Consistently strong program that always travels well despite not having the sheer volume of alumni of a Michigan or Ohio State (maybe because, like BU, theye one of those schools where hockey is indisputably the biggest draw).  Maine would fit under the same heading, although the past 5 years have been lean by their standards.

[gomestar]

I wouldn't want to be anywhere near that many North Dakota fans.

[billhoward]

North Dakota has about one-quarter as many living alumni as Michigan and they're not centered around New York City. Great opponent, but could they fill even a third of Madison Square Garden? From the East, UNH is a possibility. I didn't mention Maine because Maine is the other co-host of our Florida Holiday Classic hockey tournament and we have the possibility of meeting them in the title game or third-place game each year already.

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

The other issue is that you'd like to use the NYC venue for a team that seems unwilling to come to Lynah.  UND and MSU have both done that.  That makes the goofers or Bucky a better choice than those two.

Or Penn State for that matter.  We have no history as to whether they'd come to Lynah.  Given the proximity of the two schools, you'd have to hope that they could make it happen.  It would make for a good rivalry for a home and home weekend.

[Weder]

The last paragraph of Adam Wodon's story on the game says the BU series will resume next year and that there have been discussions about Michigan, Notre Dame and other schools in 2014.

[Chris '03]

The last paragraph of Adam Wodon's story on the game says the BU series will resume next year and that there have been discussions about Michigan, Notre Dame and other schools in 2014.

https://twitter.com/BU_AD_MLynch/status/306875659869880321

Looks like a formal announcement is on the way.

[Jordan 04]

MIH?