Frozen Four Pregame

[bnr24]

In CHN's article on Union going to the FF, it states they don't give athletic scholarships, but "until a few short years ago, wasn't even able to give preferential financial aid to student-athletes". So what is preferential aid to athletes if it isn't athletic scholarships?

I'm pretty sure Cornell does this too. I believe what it means is that if the school has $20,000 left in financial aid and it determines that both an athlete and a regular student need $15,000 in need-based aid, the athlete might get $13,000 and the regular student $7,000. It's not a scholarship because an athlete with rich parents is ineligible for need-based aid. Or maybe it means the athlete gets a grant and the regular student gets a loan and/or work-study job. Of course, before you get into an uproar, just know that I could be totally off-base with this.

I think the dynamic is more subtle than this. Here's how I suspect it works:

Smart but not brilliant kid gets into Cornell, which offers $15k in aid. Not accepted to any other Ivy schools. Ends up with $15k in aid.

Brilliant kid gets into Cornell ($15k) and Harvard ($22k). Cornell matches $22k. Ends up going to Harvard anyway.

Hockey player gets into Cornell ($15k) and Brown ($22k). Cornell matches $22k. Student has self-respect, so goes to Cornell.

Of course I'm simplifying, but IMO the net result is athletic scholarships and outsized aid for high-profile athletes. But I got off the no-scholarship bandwagon a long time ago: I think big-money athletes should be paid ferchrissakes. I just wish Cornell and the rest of the Ivies would be honest about it.

According to this 2009 article from The Sun, "high priority enrollment" students receive grants instead of loans. I would imagine that Union does something similar.

"High-priority" students aren't necessarily just those who play hockey.  The university highly values its economic diversity and as someone who got far more than 15 or 22k/year, I can guarantee you that my financial aid package was not because I'd gotten into another school where they matched it or because I play any sort of varsity sport.

[jtn27]

In CHN's article on Union going to the FF, it states they don't give athletic scholarships, but "until a few short years ago, wasn't even able to give preferential financial aid to student-athletes". So what is preferential aid to athletes if it isn't athletic scholarships?

I'm pretty sure Cornell does this too. I believe what it means is that if the school has $20,000 left in financial aid and it determines that both an athlete and a regular student need $15,000 in need-based aid, the athlete might get $13,000 and the regular student $7,000. It's not a scholarship because an athlete with rich parents is ineligible for need-based aid. Or maybe it means the athlete gets a grant and the regular student gets a loan and/or work-study job. Of course, before you get into an uproar, just know that I could be totally off-base with this.

I think the dynamic is more subtle than this. Here's how I suspect it works:

Smart but not brilliant kid gets into Cornell, which offers $15k in aid. Not accepted to any other Ivy schools. Ends up with $15k in aid.

Brilliant kid gets into Cornell ($15k) and Harvard ($22k). Cornell matches $22k. Ends up going to Harvard anyway.

Hockey player gets into Cornell ($15k) and Brown ($22k). Cornell matches $22k. Student has self-respect, so goes to Cornell.

Of course I'm simplifying, but IMO the net result is athletic scholarships and outsized aid for high-profile athletes. But I got off the no-scholarship bandwagon a long time ago: I think big-money athletes should be paid ferchrissakes. I just wish Cornell and the rest of the Ivies would be honest about it.

According to this 2009 article from The Sun, "high priority enrollment" students receive grants instead of loans. I would imagine that Union does something similar.

"High-priority" students aren't necessarily just those who play hockey.  The university highly values its economic diversity and as someone who got far more than 15 or 22k/year, I can guarantee you that my financial aid package was not because I'd gotten into another school where they matched it or because I play any sort of varsity sport.

That article I linked to does list several categories of students other than athletes considered high enrollment.

[bnr24]

In CHN's article on Union going to the FF, it states they don't give athletic scholarships, but "until a few short years ago, wasn't even able to give preferential financial aid to student-athletes". So what is preferential aid to athletes if it isn't athletic scholarships?

I'm pretty sure Cornell does this too. I believe what it means is that if the school has $20,000 left in financial aid and it determines that both an athlete and a regular student need $15,000 in need-based aid, the athlete might get $13,000 and the regular student $7,000. It's not a scholarship because an athlete with rich parents is ineligible for need-based aid. Or maybe it means the athlete gets a grant and the regular student gets a loan and/or work-study job. Of course, before you get into an uproar, just know that I could be totally off-base with this.

I think the dynamic is more subtle than this. Here's how I suspect it works:

Smart but not brilliant kid gets into Cornell, which offers $15k in aid. Not accepted to any other Ivy schools. Ends up with $15k in aid.

Brilliant kid gets into Cornell ($15k) and Harvard ($22k). Cornell matches $22k. Ends up going to Harvard anyway.

Hockey player gets into Cornell ($15k) and Brown ($22k). Cornell matches $22k. Student has self-respect, so goes to Cornell.

Of course I'm simplifying, but IMO the net result is athletic scholarships and outsized aid for high-profile athletes. But I got off the no-scholarship bandwagon a long time ago: I think big-money athletes should be paid ferchrissakes. I just wish Cornell and the rest of the Ivies would be honest about it.

According to this 2009 article from The Sun, "high priority enrollment" students receive grants instead of loans. I would imagine that Union does something similar.

"High-priority" students aren't necessarily just those who play hockey.  The university highly values its economic diversity and as someone who got far more than 15 or 22k/year, I can guarantee you that my financial aid package was not because I'd gotten into another school where they matched it or because I play any sort of varsity sport.

That article I linked to does list several categories of students other than athletes considered high enrollment.

I remember the whole big to-do with financial aid packages when they'd changed the amount of financial aid wherein if you fall below a certain threshold all of your financial aid is in grants and not loans.  The financial aid policy ended up having to do with matching what other institutions offer in aid as well, as I'm sure you know.  I personally remember the difference in my aid package from my freshman year (07-08) to my sophomore year (08-09).

Also, the article you posted said this:

In terms of the new program's adherence to the bylaws of the Ivy League, which regulates the athletic competition amongst the Ivies, states, "Athletes shall be admitted as students and awarded financial aid only on the basis of the same academic standards and economic need as are applied to all other students."

Namely, Cornell is need-blind, to athletes as well.

[bnr24]

whoops!  somehow I double-posted.

[css228]

Namely, Cornell is need-blind, to athletes as well.

The coaches however, who send the list of athletes they hope to get likely letters, or do the recruiting, are not need blind.

[bnr24]

Namely, Cornell is need-blind, to athletes as well.

The coaches however, who send the list of athletes they hope to get likely letters, or do the recruiting, are not need blind however.

That may be true, and hockey is not a cheap sport to play, but in order to get into Cornell, they still need to get into Cornell on their own merits and the university does its selections on a need-blind basis.

[css228]

Namely, Cornell is need-blind, to athletes as well.

The coaches however, who send the list of athletes they hope to get likely letters, or do the recruiting, are not need blind however.

That may be true, and hockey is not a cheap sport to play, but in order to get into Cornell, they still need to get into Cornell on their own merits and the university does its selections on a need-blind basis.

The point I'm making is that if an athlete can get here on their own merits, the coaches can essentially target recruits in such a way that gives them unlimited partial and full scholarships (hockey isn't nearly as expensive in Canada). Let's just say of the people I know on the track team, the proportion of them on financial aid of some sort or another is far higher than the general student population.

[bnr24]

Namely, Cornell is need-blind, to athletes as well.

The coaches however, who send the list of athletes they hope to get likely letters, or do the recruiting, are not need blind however.

That may be true, and hockey is not a cheap sport to play, but in order to get into Cornell, they still need to get into Cornell on their own merits and the university does its selections on a need-blind basis.

The point I'm making is that if an athlete can get here on their own merits, the coaches can essentially target recruits in such a way that gives them unlimited partial and full scholarships (hockey isn't nearly as expensive in Canada). Let's just say of the people I know on the track team, the proportion of them on financial aid of some sort or another is far higher than the general student population.

I definitely agree with that and know it's done.  But the difference is, those kids can still retain their financial aid if they stop playing (not true of sports scholarships at institutions which award them).

But also, there is some point at which a coach is going to recruit based on talent and not solely based on whether they fall into a certain income bracket.

[css228]

Namely, Cornell is need-blind, to athletes as well.

The coaches however, who send the list of athletes they hope to get likely letters, or do the recruiting, are not need blind however.

That may be true, and hockey is not a cheap sport to play, but in order to get into Cornell, they still need to get into Cornell on their own merits and the university does its selections on a need-blind basis.

The point I'm making is that if an athlete can get here on their own merits, the coaches can essentially target recruits in such a way that gives them unlimited partial and full scholarships (hockey isn't nearly as expensive in Canada). Let's just say of the people I know on the track team, the proportion of them on financial aid of some sort or another is far higher than the general student population.

I definitely agree with that and know it's done.  But the difference is, those kids can still retain their financial aid if they stop playing (not true of sports scholarships at institutions which award them).

But also, there is some point at which a coach is going to recruit based on talent and not solely based on whether they fall into a certain income bracket.

Definitely, but talent within a certain income bracket is definitely the gold standard for Ivy coaches

[bnr24]

Namely, Cornell is need-blind, to athletes as well.

The coaches however, who send the list of athletes they hope to get likely letters, or do the recruiting, are not need blind however.

That may be true, and hockey is not a cheap sport to play, but in order to get into Cornell, they still need to get into Cornell on their own merits and the university does its selections on a need-blind basis.

The point I'm making is that if an athlete can get here on their own merits, the coaches can essentially target recruits in such a way that gives them unlimited partial and full scholarships (hockey isn't nearly as expensive in Canada). Let's just say of the people I know on the track team, the proportion of them on financial aid of some sort or another is far higher than the general student population.

I definitely agree with that and know it's done.  But the difference is, those kids can still retain their financial aid if they stop playing (not true of sports scholarships at institutions which award them).

But also, there is some point at which a coach is going to recruit based on talent and not solely based on whether they fall into a certain income bracket.

Definitely, but talent within a certain income bracket is definitely the gold standard for Ivy coaches

Yes, but that doesn't say much for those who happen to be legacy sports families (a la the Moriartys of Harvard).

[css228]

Namely, Cornell is need-blind, to athletes as well.

The coaches however, who send the list of athletes they hope to get likely letters, or do the recruiting, are not need blind however.

That may be true, and hockey is not a cheap sport to play, but in order to get into Cornell, they still need to get into Cornell on their own merits and the university does its selections on a need-blind basis.

The point I'm making is that if an athlete can get here on their own merits, the coaches can essentially target recruits in such a way that gives them unlimited partial and full scholarships (hockey isn't nearly as expensive in Canada). Let's just say of the people I know on the track team, the proportion of them on financial aid of some sort or another is far higher than the general student population.

I definitely agree with that and know it's done.  But the difference is, those kids can still retain their financial aid if they stop playing (not true of sports scholarships at institutions which award them).

But also, there is some point at which a coach is going to recruit based on talent and not solely based on whether they fall into a certain income bracket.

Definitely, but talent within a certain income bracket is definitely the gold standard for Ivy coaches

Yes, but that doesn't say much for those who happen to be legacy sports families (a la the Moriartys of Harvard).

New gold standard?

[bnr24]

Namely, Cornell is need-blind, to athletes as well.

The coaches however, who send the list of athletes they hope to get likely letters, or do the recruiting, are not need blind however.

That may be true, and hockey is not a cheap sport to play, but in order to get into Cornell, they still need to get into Cornell on their own merits and the university does its selections on a need-blind basis.

The point I'm making is that if an athlete can get here on their own merits, the coaches can essentially target recruits in such a way that gives them unlimited partial and full scholarships (hockey isn't nearly as expensive in Canada). Let's just say of the people I know on the track team, the proportion of them on financial aid of some sort or another is far higher than the general student population.

I definitely agree with that and know it's done.  But the difference is, those kids can still retain their financial aid if they stop playing (not true of sports scholarships at institutions which award them).

But also, there is some point at which a coach is going to recruit based on talent and not solely based on whether they fall into a certain income bracket.

Definitely, but talent within a certain income bracket is definitely the gold standard for Ivy coaches

Yes, but that doesn't say much for those who happen to be legacy sports families (a la the Moriartys of Harvard).

New gold standard?

lol perhaps.  Who knows?  I mean, honestly, it drains the university less financially when people it admits don't have to get financial aid in the form of grants, so...maybe?

[marty]

Urban folklore in the Capital District includes the young Jooris  being ignored by the RPI coaching staff.

Like Father,..

[Rita]

Guess I can put this information in this thread for those going to Tampa and renting a car:

Gas in Florida has hit the $4 mark, and major cities like Miami and Tampa have a pricing differential for paying cash vs. using a credit/debit card. Often times the price listed on the station billboard is the "Cash only" price. If you are paying by credit card, expect to pay 10-15 cents more per gallon.

[marty]

Interesting drift.

Friday's Times Union