ECAC Finals Weekend not on TV

[pfibiger]

So I wasn't sure that it fit in either the "America One worse than Red Cast" thread or the "ECACs not on TV" thread but I'll stick it here. In the USCHO thread about the ECACs not being on TV, RHamilton, who appears to be the manager of RPI TV, said this:

We're trying to prod America One into streaming at as high of a quality as possible, but they're not exactly being forthcoming. I'm still trying.

In a perfect world, they'd stream at multiple bitrates and resolutions, both HD and SD so customers with slower internet can still enjoy. For $10 a game, customers should expect that. We're feeding them a 1080i60 feed, and they've decided that a 480x270 feed at 800 kbps is "adequate". It's unfortunately a very poor representation of our feed. If you click on one of our VoDs and start playing a video, you can see the resolutions and bitrates we feel are "adequate" in the drop down box above the video. Note that we offer a huge selection, and it even attempts to auto adjust to your internet speed. That's thinking for the customer, something America One is a bit hesitant to do. Oh yeah, and we do it for free.

I should probably be a bit more candid, but it's quite frustrating.

http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?99891-ECAC-Hockey-Finales-Will-Not-Be-Televised&p=5395089&viewfull=1#post5395089

Given how many times we've discussed what quality streaming _could_ be available from RedCast (paging CowbellGuy and Kyle Rose to the discussion), here's a pretty stark example of what goes down. I guess all these providers are nickel and diming about bandwidth costs? Seems (to go back to the TV discussion) of a place where the ECAC commissioner could step in and say "we want a higher quality product for our fans, you need to offer a low bitrate/res option and a higher def one" and make it happen. Why does the student manager for RPI TV have to be the one negotiating with B2? Where's his leverage?

[css228]

Now, I think that The Garden might be out of the Conference's price range or unreasonable for other reasons for the ECAC to start with that location in the City. I think that the idea to host the ECAC Championships in New York City is an intriguing idea nonetheless. The Barclays Center in Brooklyn will open in September. It is smaller than The Garden (14,500 vs. 18,200) and it would be likely far cheaper than hosting an event in Manhattan at The Garden. The Barclays Center will be looking for new tenants, why should the ECAC Championships not be on that list? That is the avenue that I would like explored. It would allow the ECAC to tout and market the ECAC Championships as being in New York City without all the costs of hosting the event at The Garden.

As I wrote earlier, I think the Garden would be the best location, but it isn't feasible. While the Barclays would probably be better than a lot of the alternatives, I'm not so sure that's the way to go. For one thing, it's still an NBA arena, so there could be scheduling conflicts and/or they might think they can attract higher level events, such as big concert tours, for that weekend. Second, no offense to those of you that live there, but Brooklyn just doesn't have the same draw as Manhattan. It doesn't have the same level of tourist attractions/night life to go to before/after the game, and it's harder to get to. I live in Nassau County on Long Island and despite Brooklyn being geographically closer to where I live than Manhattan, it's harder to get to (2 trains versus 1) and it would definitely be harder to get to for anyone in NJ/NE/Manhattan/Upstate NY. That being said, the league should at the very least talk to the Barclays Center about the possibility.

Are there any other smaller arenas in NYC other than MSG and the Barclays (and if you want to include it Nassau Coliseum)?

The question isn't how Barclays compares to MSG. It's how it compares to Albany, Atlantic City, Providence, Bridgeport, Rochester, etc., etc. I think it does quite favorably in those comparisons. (That said, I'm sure the conversation is moot, as it's likely never going there).

Were I being selfish, I would support the ECAC Championships moving to Rochester, NY or Buffalo, NY, those are within easy driving distance of my law school and within 1-2 hours of my hometown in Upstate New York. However, I was trying to think of something that would allow the ECAC to rebrand itself and seek to re-establish itself as a brand in college hockey. Admittedly, I know that success on the ice on a national stage will need to correspond with any successful rebranding. That is the catch-22. The ECAC cannot get a new venue or media platform until it is successful, and the ECAC will not be successful until it can get more high quality recruits through increased exposure through better venues and media platforms. Also, Atlantic Hockey has the Blue Cross Arena in Rochester, NY reserved for its championships. I know that most on here will assume that the ECAC, as one of the "Big Four," could push easily Atlantic Hockey out of the venue, but I think one needs to re-examine our condescension toward Atlantic Hockey. The Atlantic Hockey Championships will be televised. Atlantic Hockey has had a team make the Frozen Four within the last two years (RIT in 2010), the ECAC has not.

I think the only way to get the BCA for the ECACs would be to poach RIT from the AHA.  Not that I'd complain about that either...

Qpac for RIT? I'm down.

[Rosey]

Given how many times we've discussed what quality streaming _could_ be available from RedCast (paging CowbellGuy and Kyle Rose to the discussion), here's a pretty stark example of what goes down. I guess all these providers are nickel and diming about bandwidth costs?

Let's say B2 is retarded and were to stream 1080i at something like 10Mbit/sec. Bandwidth cost today for a provider their size is going to be something like $1/Mbit/sec for monthly 95/5, which means their cost for your viewing would be $10 if you were to stream at 10Mbit/sec for more than 5% of a month, or 36 hours. Chances are their costs are at least an order of magnitude less than this because of all the pessimistic assumptions I've made.

Bottom line: bandwidth costs have nothing to do with their pricing model.

[adamw]

Fair enough, I guess I am letting my frustration as a fan get the better of my rational judgment. Either way, its probably unproductive to continue to bring the subject up, as either way it doesn't really affect me given that Atlantic City is an easy trip from Philadelphia. By the way, I really enjoyed your article on Cornell. When CHN does cover ECAC hockey, I'd definitely say its coverage is the best.

Hey, stop kissing up now ... No worries.  There are no perfect answers. Plenty of room for discussion.

[adamw]

My understanding is that the HD/SD streaming issue has been resolved.

[French Rage]

Look, we can all give the "wouldn't it be great if they put it right near ME!!!" arguments, but the more I think about it, the more sure I am that the ECAC Tournament belongs in Albany.

Here are the major factors:

1) Geographic Location: How easy is it to get to? Accessible airports, highways, and of course distance to participating schools.  Costs of sending teams & bands matters here.

2) Facility Quality: Olympic or Standard sheet, number of locker rooms, is there a pro team already there, or is it a multipurpose room where some guy will turn on a garden hose and hope it stays cold?  Is it appropriately sized for fans with enough amenities?

3) Marketing & local media exposure:
3a) Will the locals be/get interested? Will the city treat it like a "big deal" and put up signs and events, or will it be an afterthought?  Will it make the front page of the local paper's sports section? Does the local population "get" what college hockey is?
3b) How will the rest of college hockey look at it?  Will fans of non-ECAC college teams in the region want to come and check it out? Other conferences have Boston, Detroit, Minneapolis, and Rochester.  What does it say about us if you say "Glens Falls!" next to those?  Lake Placid has an exemption because that is a holy name in American Hockey history, and pretty cool to brag about.  Boston & NYC are obviously the big winners in 3(b), but not 3(a).
3c) Will the league make money? That's obviously what they care about, so I'll stick that in here.
3d) Is it a big enough media market that there would be some help in getting a broadcast set up to make it appealing/easy for a Cable TV outlet to pick it up?

4) Fan Friendliness: Accommodations for us. Hotels, bars, restaurants, "things to do." Is it cheap or expensive? City or suburban? How easy is transit? How easy is parking?  Will people whine about it being "too dumpy" or "too dangerous" or not "family friendly?"

All that said, I rank the usual suspects thusly:

1) Albany
2) Providence
3) Worcester
4) Rochester
5) Hartford
6) Syracuse
7) Boston
Bridgeport
9) Springfield
10) Glens Falls

Also receiving votes: Lake Placid, Manchester, Newark, Binghamton

As someone who grew up in a small Upstate NY town, forget about NYC. Regardless of reality and what you think about it, a huge majority of people outside the Metro NY region are TERRIFIED of NYC, and would be sticker-shocked at what the hotel & parking rates would be.  Yes, you have local alumni, but frankly, I'd rather cater more to the students & townies who have been going to the games all along.  Ma & Pa from Potsdam aren't going to even consider NYC, or feel comfortable letting Junior go for a weekend tournament. Boston just doesn't have the same stigma.

Albany is the best available of all worlds.  Geographically, it's the heart of the league.  It can cater to people who feel comfortable in a city, as well as people who feel more used to the stuff around Wolff Road or the surrounding towns.  It's big enough that there's plenty of entertainment & historical stuff around, and the Times-Union (both the arena and the paper) has always treated us well.  Hell, they used to cover a Pearl St. building with the league Tournament bracket.

Good list, though 1 and 2 should be more important than 3 and 4.

Regarding 3, we have to remember we're a middle-tier conference in a sport that no one outside of it really cares about or are even that aware exists; I know it sucks to say, but let's be honest.  Plus we're the same weekend as the first weekend of the basketball tournament, with games from sunrise to sunset.  So to think that magically due to our location we're going to pull in anything more than a trivial number of casual fans is to me ridiculous, and any attempt to ignore other factors (such as proximity to fans who actually care) is only going to hurt attendance in the end.

Regarding 4, while it is important to have a few restaurants, a few bars, and a few affordable hotels, I don't how having a lot of extra "things to do" will really help numbers.  Let's face it, we're all more than happily spending a weekend, and for the younger folks half of their spring break, watching a college hockey conference tournament in some random section of the northeast.  We're not really going to balk if there's not an amusement park or a casino next door, we're already sold on the hockey and beyond that we're not hard sells.

So given that the probability of random casual fans is low in any case, and that those of us fans who care will come regardless of location, it really comes down to making sure the location is decent and central, and that the location has the barest of amenities (hotels, restaurants, bars).  And while Albany is not the shiny jewel of northeastern cities, it really fits that the best.

[upprdeck]

I wonder if they should go and try a rotation of some kind.. I think anyplace other than Boston people would get bored after a couple years. Albany is great for location and ease, not so great for other stuff for many people.  For my money I would go to Albany and then every few years go to Boston.  the best times were when the ECAC and Hockey East were both in the bldg, great crowds and energy.. Maybe logistically it doesnt work but i would try it .

one thing that has changed since we left boston is people want to spend less money unless they are getting bang for the buck.. Boston was a destination with a couple games.. Albany is a couple games with a dinner/bar outing thrown in.

[css228]

I wonder if they should go and try a rotation of some kind.. I think anyplace other than Boston people would get bored after a couple years. Albany is great for location and ease, not so great for other stuff for many people.  For my money I would go to Albany and then every few years go to Boston.  the best times were when the ECAC and Hockey East were both in the bldg, great crowds and energy.. Maybe logistically it doesnt work but i would try it .

one thing that has changed since we left boston is people want to spend less money unless they are getting bang for the buck.. Boston was a destination with a couple games.. Albany is a couple games with a dinner/bar outing thrown in.

One has to wonder whether or not there would be a way to make Philly work. After all if you're going to go as far south as AC, you might as well come to a real destination city.The Wells Fargo (a.k.a. Wachovia (a.k.a. First Union (a.k.a. CoreStates))) Center is probably too big to be a reasonable rink for ECAC (plus its now the only major arena in town since the Spectrum was torn down, so it probably wouldn't want to book us given its demand. The Liacorous Center at Temple actually may work though. It was the home of the Philadelphia Kixx of the MISL for a year, so we know they can put a 200x85 hockey rink sized playing surface in there. Unless it gets a first round Women's NCAA tourney game, or the Harmlem Globetrotters (those are the only things other than Temple games it seems to host). It seats 10,200  for basketball so probably a little fewer for hockey. So its a big arena, but no so big as to be unreasonable, in a major city, which while outside the league footprint, people actually want come to. I mean maybe it doesn't have the ice making capacity, and it is in a pretty bad neighborhood, but its worth a thought.

[TimV]

How come the whole 37,500 seats at fenway aren't counted in the denominator?  THAT would give the real per cent of capacity.  Just sayin'...::wank::

[jtn27]

As I stated earlier, I think a NYC location would be ideal so I looked into what arenas are in NY other than MSG and the Barclays. A good choice might be  St. John's Carnesecca Arena, which seats 5,600. It's a basketball arena, not a hockey arena (I don't know too much about the conversion process, but it should be feasible), but it seats a decent number of people (I also looked up Columbia and Fordham's basketball arenas, which both seat about 3,500), is relatively close to the schools in the ECAC (especially Princeton, Yale, and Quinnipiac, and to a lesser extent Cornell and Colgate and even Union and RPI), is in a major city, and shouldn't have any scheduling conflicts the weekend of the ECAC Tournament (if St. John's basketball season is still ongoing, they would be in the NCAA Tournament which hasn't been hosted in Carnesecca since 1974).

[marty]

Are there any other smaller arenas in NYC other than MSG and the Barclays (and if you want to include it Nassau Coliseum)?

[Rita]

Don't get too many crazy ideas about having a Conference Tourney with a ticket to the NC$$ tournament at stake at a venue that doesn't normally have ice for hockey games. You do not want to be playing important games on sh*tty ice.

With some of the ideas in this thread I think about the 1996 FF in Cincinnati that had awful ice problems and caused a very long delay.

I hope they do have decent ice in AC this weekend. I would much rather have it at a venue that has a resident hockey team.

I don't think Bridgeport is a likely permanent solution. I know this weekend they are hosting the first two rounds of the women's squeakable tourney and fans in CT and the surrounding area will go watch the lady huskies, and not ECAC hockey. Since they are now in the NC$$ regional rotation, they may focus on hosting that event rather than the ECAC tourney.

[marty]

And no one wanted to be back Albany except maybe Union and RPI.

Could you elaborate?  I know (having made) the fans' complaints about Albany, but what were the schools' issues?

Money

Which is also the reason that Albany has no regionals this year.  If I am not mistaken, they have been in Albany on alternating years since at least 1994.  Many of us remember the bittersweet 1996 game versus Lake Superior State.  I remember RPI being embarrassed, I think in '94.

Sad to say that although there are some college hockey fans in the Capital District, there are more RPI  and Union townies who don't give a crap about college hockey as a semi-religious experience.  The problem with Albany has been attendance.  I think that an experiment that the league can consider is Bridgeport.  They seem to draw for the regionals and have "stolen" Albany's regional this year.  It will be interesting to see the attendance there next week.  I hope I have to make the trip.

[css228]

Don't get too many crazy ideas about having a Conference Tourney with a ticket to the NC$$ tournament at stake at a venue that doesn't normally have ice for hockey games. You do not want to be playing important games on sh*tty ice.

With some of the ideas in this thread I think about the 1996 FF in Cincinnati that had awful ice problems and caused a very long delay.

I hope they do have decent ice in AC this weekend. I would much rather have it at a venue that has a resident hockey team.

I don't think Bridgeport is a likely permanent solution. I know this weekend they are hosting the first two rounds of the women's squeakable tourney and fans in CT and the surrounding area will go watch the lady huskies, and not ECAC hockey. Since they are now in the NC$$ regional rotation, they may focus on hosting that event rather than the ECAC tourney.

Very true, my statement was more along the lines that if AC is acceptable to the league ice wise (and it shouldn't be), and we see how much better ice making is getting, why not try the same thing in Philly. But definitely shoot hockey specific first.

[RichH]

Don't get too many crazy ideas about having a Conference Tourney with a ticket to the NC$$ tournament at stake at a venue that doesn't normally have ice for hockey games. You do not want to be playing important games on sh*tty ice.

Ford Field.

Ohhh, if you're going to go to Philadelphia, let's keep going to Baltimore. Or Washington DCAC!!!