John Harvards Pregame for Lynah East

[Al DeFlorio]

> our goal is to bring a lot of people out for a high-quality, memorable
> experience for the sake of Cornell pride and fun.

While I appreciate the well thought out response from the CCoB's committee chair, I was of the opinion that's JH's has been this kind of experience for the last 12+ years without anyone's involvement.  Being that I have friends coming from out of town that will likely only have time for a quick beer before the game, we're going someplace else.

The bureaucratic mentality is the only constant in the universe.

(We get a freighter?)

Strikes me, Kyle, that this is an example of your beloved "market" at work.  CCOB rented the hall.  You didn't.  Hard cheese.  Stop whining.

[Rosey]

Strikes me, Kyle, that this is an example of your beloved "market" at work.  CCOB rented the hall.  You didn't.  Hard cheese.  Stop whining.

As I said to Robin yesterday in a PM, if this is a good deal for JH's, then they are right to do it no matter how much I don't like it: it's not like I'm a regular there whom they are in danger of pissing off. That doesn't mean, however, that I have to happy about the situation or that I shouldn't tell CCOB what I think of their actions.

FWIW, when you stopped being insightful and switched to scoring cheap points in flippant posts in an attempt to (I guess?) stay relevant, I stopped caring what you think. Judging from the continued activity on this thread, there is a vibrant discussion going on here, but please don't let that distract you from your vendetta against me.

[Robb]

>
> If there were a couple of hundred people sharing their frustrations I'd see
> this as a problem and believe me, Cornell would take notice.

I'm guessing that there may very well be a couple hundred people sharing their frustrations - at about 5 pm on game night standing outside John Harvard's, since most people probably will not have heard about the co-opting.  Utter chaos will ensue - fabulous.

[RichH]

Edit: His response is below. This means if you want it to change, get a lot of people to call Cornell and say, poor choice.

His response is utterly tone-deaf, and precisely what I expected. Spontaneous order doesn't provide him with the experience his more important alumni want, so he takes control and then tells everyone else we're being unreasonable for not being sufficiently appreciative at having our annual event co-opted.

Everybody go to the Hong Kong instead. Pre-game Scorpion Bowls for all!  ::thud::

Seriously, now: This is ridiculous, if you ask me.  CCOB is seizing what was an *inclusive* event and making it exclusionary.  There are a LOT of people who come in from outside of Boston for this game, and John Harvard's became the default "I don't know when we'll get into town, but let's just meet there," meeting spot.  For CCOB to just claim it as their own and charge admission is the opposite of what this community and what Cornell Hockey fandom is all about, IMO.  To whine "ewwhhh, the room we reserved was too small, so we're going to steal everyone else's ball and play instead" is simply more elitist bullshit I hate to see.

[Rosey]

Seriously, now: This is ridiculous, if you ask me.  CCOB is seizing what was an *inclusive* event and making it exclusionary.  There are a LOT of people who come in from outside of Boston for this game, and John Harvard's became the default "I don't know when we'll get into town, but let's just meet there," meeting spot.  For CCOB to just claim it as their own and charge admission is the opposite of what this community and what Cornell Hockey fandom is all about, IMO.  To whine "ewwhhh, the room we reserved was too small, so we're going to steal everyone else's ball and play instead" is simply more elitist bullshit I hate to see.

Well said. FWIW, I emailed John Harvard's management to make sure they are aware that there are many of us who won't be there this year but will return in future years if things go back to normal. I honestly think we'll have better traction with them than with the CCOB, but either way it can't hurt: I turned the diplomacy way up for my email, something that was easy because I have no particular beef with them. :-)

[ugarte]

The disconnect here is between a freewheeling place to meet (which is what the young and the young-at-heart want) and the more controlled atmosphere of an "event" (which is what people who join and stay active in alumni organizations want). What everyone seems to agree on is that John Harvard's is where they want their drinking to happen.

That's why the best solution (CCOB sending out an email blast saying "John Harvard's is the unofficial meeting place for Cornell hockey fans. See you there!" ) will never happen and why they had to reserve the whole bar. As for the people put out by John Harvard's being taken over... it's just a bar that you go to once a year. The advantage of picking another bar is that you get to say how much better it is than John Harvard's ever was.

[ugarte]

something that was easy because I have no particular beef with them. :-)

Give it time.

[ftyuv]

it's probably not in their cost-benefit ratio to give a hoot -- but if anyone from CCOB is listening in, you're alienating me.

No matter which way I look at it, I don't see the issue, nor am I concerned about too much here.

Do I win any points for being right?

munchkin, thanks for bringing this to his attention. I considered emailing them, but frankly I don't trust them with my email address. The kind of organization that would pull this move is the same kind that could well respond to a "I don't like what you've done" email with "thanks for the comment, and we've taken the liberty of adding you to our mailing list."

Someone mentioned HK as an alternative. It's a bit farther a walk, but not a bad option. I wonder if we could get a permit for the park next to the bridge, and just do a good ol' fashioned tailgate. It'll be a bit chilly, but nothing that Ithacan Februaries haven't already thrown our way!

[Josh '99]

As for the people put out by John Harvard's being taken over... it's just a bar that you go to once a year. The advantage of picking another bar is that you get to say how much better it is than John Harvard's ever was.

Leave it to the other guy who lives in Brooklyn to point out the appeal of being able to say "I went to John Harvard's before it was cool".  :-D

[munchkin]

munchkin, thanks for bringing this to his attention. I considered emailing them, but frankly I don't trust them with my email address. The kind of organization that would pull this move is the same kind that could well respond to a "I don't like what you've done" email with "thanks for the comment, and we've taken the liberty of adding you to our mailing list."

I'm already on his radar since I'm the volunteer coordinator for CCoB - I'm a low level volunteer under his programming committee. When the CCoB goes out in the community, generally, I'm one of the people behind the planning and organizing.

Still bothers me that he doesn't really care. He was never a hockey fan as an undergrad (that I'm aware of), nor does he get the culture of the alumni fans.

I also support going to HK. I'm usually only there once a year for the Head of the Charles, despite living within a few miles, but I could make an exception for some pregame revelry.

[ftyuv]

munchkin, thanks for bringing this to his attention. I considered emailing them, but frankly I don't trust them with my email address. The kind of organization that would pull this move is the same kind that could well respond to a "I don't like what you've done" email with "thanks for the comment, and we've taken the liberty of adding you to our mailing list."

I'm already on his radar since I'm the volunteer coordinator for CCoB - I'm a low level volunteer under his programming committee. When the CCoB goes out in the community, generally, I'm one of the people behind the planning and organizing.

Yikes, egg on my face -- didn't mean to crap on the organization you help out with. But while I'm at it, this is the bit that irked me in his email:

But it's also pretty shallow, base, and selfish for people to be completely turned off by the prospect that we're trying to include more Cornellians.

Imho, what's selfish is the perspective that the only way to include more Cornellians is to buy out the restaurant. As ugarte said, he could have been just as inclusive by just telling people that that's the tradition, and they're welcome to come join the rest of the Cornellians who have been going there for years. Ah well. (I know I'm preaching to the choir, sorry.)

To say nothing of his use of the serial comma. That's the real injustice! ::cuss::

[Jordan 04]

Indeed the finger-pointing at the "shallow and selfish" people who want to drop in and have a beer at JH's was the height of irony.

I think it's a shame what CCOB did.

[munchkin]

munchkin, thanks for bringing this to his attention. I considered emailing them, but frankly I don't trust them with my email address. The kind of organization that would pull this move is the same kind that could well respond to a "I don't like what you've done" email with "thanks for the comment, and we've taken the liberty of adding you to our mailing list."

I'm already on his radar since I'm the volunteer coordinator for CCoB - I'm a low level volunteer under his programming committee. When the CCoB goes out in the community, generally, I'm one of the people behind the planning and organizing.

Yikes, egg on my face -- didn't mean to crap on the organization you help out with. But while I'm at it, this is the bit that irked me in his email:

But it's also pretty shallow, base, and selfish for people to be completely turned off by the prospect that we're trying to include more Cornellians.

Imho, what's selfish is the perspective that the only way to include more Cornellians is to buy out the restaurant. As ugarte said, he could have been just as inclusive by just telling people that that's the tradition, and they're welcome to come join the rest of the Cornellians who have been going there for years. Ah well. (I know I'm preaching to the choir, sorry.)

To say nothing of his use of the serial comma. That's the real injustice! ::cuss::

I agree, that it's wrong for him to call our group - which is typically the most dedicated of fans - selfish for wanting to socialize with all the other fans who come out for the Harvard game without paying for the priviledge to do so. I'm back in school, I'm not about to drop $18 for a couple hours of socializing when I could be using that to buy a couple growlers down at Harpoon to drink elsewhere.

No worries about insulting the CCoB.  I did a lot of volunteer coordination at Cornell with APO (community service fraternity) so this is just an extension of that for me.  I also have nothing to do with the other events that go on.

[Ben Rocky '04]

trikes me, Kyle, that this is an example of your beloved "market" at work.  CCOB rented the hall.  You didn't.  Hard cheese.  Stop whining.

why doesn't this message board have a "like" function similar to stupid ole facebook?

[ugarte]

As for the people put out by John Harvard's being taken over... it's just a bar that you go to once a year. The advantage of picking another bar is that you get to say how much better it is than John Harvard's ever was.

Leave it to the other guy who lives in Brooklyn to point out the appeal of being able to say "I went to John Harvard's before it was cool".  :-D

I live in Brooklyn but in a neighborhood you probably haven't heard of.