National Collegiate Hockey Conference

[jtn27]

I grew up in a family with 4 boys. We all played sports at some level but nothing real serious. I have 2 daughters and a son. I admit that early on I was baffled about girls and sports but as a dutiful dad I signed my daughters up for soccer and volunteered to coach (that is too generous a term I was really a warm willing body). Over the years I coached my daughters teams in Soccer and Basketball. I learned 2 things.

First, girls really want to play just as much as boys. They enjoy the thrill of competition and take to team work better than boys. They really want to win.

Secondly, girls are much easier to coach than boys. If you practice something during the week you will see it on the field that weekend in the game. There are far fewer ball hogs on a girls team.

I have been to a few of the women's hockey games and they are a pleasure to watch. Given time I think they will sell out as well. I used to be skeptical about Title IX but no longer. Let them play.

I seriously doubt the women's team will ever sell out. They had a decent showing this year for the playoffs, but I went to a few regular season games too and Lynah was mostly empty and almost completely devoid of students. I can't see the women's team getting many more fans than it did for the playoffs this year.

[css228]

I grew up in a family with 4 boys. We all played sports at some level but nothing real serious. I have 2 daughters and a son. I admit that early on I was baffled about girls and sports but as a dutiful dad I signed my daughters up for soccer and volunteered to coach (that is too generous a term I was really a warm willing body). Over the years I coached my daughters teams in Soccer and Basketball. I learned 2 things.

First, girls really want to play just as much as boys. They enjoy the thrill of competition and take to team work better than boys. They really want to win.

Secondly, girls are much easier to coach than boys. If you practice something during the week you will see it on the field that weekend in the game. There are far fewer ball hogs on a girls team.

I have been to a few of the women's hockey games and they are a pleasure to watch. Given time I think they will sell out as well. I used to be skeptical about Title IX but no longer. Let them play.

I have no problem with women playing sports. I didn't ever intend to give that impression. What I have a problem with is a system that encourages things like USF's Women's Cross Country squad having 71 athletes on it when only 28 ever run a race. Meanwhile there were only 10 on the Men's squad. You can't convince me that even resembles the idea of fairness intended by Title IX. Women should compete and have opportunities, but college sports should still be a meritocracy. If you're not good enough to be a D-I athlete male or female you shouldn't be one. 71 roster spots is a joke. A Women's crew team at Arizona State, a school in the middle of a desert, is an even bigger joke, and quite frankly a waste of money. There's no chance a school like that ever recruits any serious rowers, meaning that people who may never have rowed in their life are there on scholarship? It's a clear example of team that exists only for Title IX purposes You can guarantee they spend as little as possible on that program. IT just makes absolutely no sense. And once again, I can't believe that Maryland's T&F/xC program is going to get contracted because it can't save an entirely separate program. These are non-revenue sports. Not a single dime is ever going to come from an XC program that's not named Oregon. It should be about providing students a chance to compete in these sports. Instead it becomes about finding a way to balance out Football. At the very least Track athletes should only be counted once, and things like that, that just makes those kids targets to have their programs cut, just like squash, and wrestling.

[Jim Hyla]

Instead it becomes about finding a way to balance out Football.

You're absolutely correct. So if you are going to give all that money to football, find a way to compensate. If they decide that the best way is to flood, no pun intended, the women's crew team. Well then at least some women get scholarships.

Because some schools come up with laughable ways to try and correct the imbalance, doesn't mean the goal is wrong. No the means are wrong. SU started a women's hockey team. I'm sure that Title IX had something to do with it. It cost them money, but gave women hockey players another oportunity. It's unfortunate that they quit wrestling, but us guys can't have it all.

Come up with a better, and still equitable, system and the colleges will come running to you.

[jtn27]

Come up with a better, and still equitable, system and the colleges will come running to you.

I highly doubt colleges and the NCAA will rapidly adopt an equitable system if it becomes available that. See: The BCS.

[Jim Hyla]

Come up with a better, and still equitable, system and the colleges will come running to you.

I highly doubt colleges and the NCAA will rapidly adopt an equitable system if it becomes available that. See: The BCS.

Actually one of the reasons that we have the BCS is that many colleges feel it's equitable. What is it 40% of schools go to a bowl game. They all get money. They get the extra practice time, which is as valuable for the next season as for the bowl game. Take a good share of the bowls to work up to a championship and those other teams lose those advantages. Their season ends sooner, less practice, fewer bowls for those also-rans to go to. As I said, football rules. They don't really care about a champion, rather more for all of them.

[MattS]

I seriously doubt the women's team will ever sell out. They had a decent showing this year for the playoffs, but I went to a few regular season games too and Lynah was mostly empty and almost completely devoid of students. I can't see the women's team getting many more fans than it did for the playoffs this year.

While I too doubt that the women could consistantly or even frequently sellout games, they should draw mroe than they do. I firmly believe that the reason for that is the lack of promotion. It certainly isn't for the lack of a quality game to watch and Ithaca certianly has a passion for hockey. So I conclude that either there is a lot of sexist hockey fans in Ithaca or that people simple are not aware of the excellent entertainment they could have by attending the games. Since I tend to be an optimist I feel that it is the pathetic (non-existant) promotion of any sport that is not football, men's basketball, or men's lacrosse. Heck even those sports are not promoted well they just happen to be more popular.

[Robb]

I seriously doubt the women's team will ever sell out. They had a decent showing this year for the playoffs, but I went to a few regular season games too and Lynah was mostly empty and almost completely devoid of students. I can't see the women's team getting many more fans than it did for the playoffs this year.

While I too doubt that the women could consistantly or even frequently sellout games, they should draw mroe than they do. I firmly believe that the reason for that is the lack of promotion. It certainly isn't for the lack of a quality game to watch and Ithaca certianly has a passion for hockey. So I conclude that either there is a lot of sexist hockey fans in Ithaca or that people simple are not aware of the excellent entertainment they could have by attending the games. Since I tend to be an optimist I feel that it is the pathetic (non-existant) promotion of any sport that is not football, men's basketball, or men's lacrosse. Heck even those sports are not promoted well they just happen to be more popular.

If there's no promotion for any sports, then how can lack of promotion be the explanation for the difference in attendance?  ::screwy::

[MattS]

I seriously doubt the women's team will ever sell out. They had a decent showing this year for the playoffs, but I went to a few regular season games too and Lynah was mostly empty and almost completely devoid of students. I can't see the women's team getting many more fans than it did for the playoffs this year.

While I too doubt that the women could consistantly or even frequently sellout games, they should draw more than they do. I firmly believe that the reason for that is the lack of promotion. It certainly isn't for the lack of a quality game to watch and Ithaca certianly has a passion for hockey. So I conclude that either there is a lot of sexist hockey fans in Ithaca or that people simple are not aware of the excellent entertainment they could have by attending the games. Since I tend to be an optimist I feel that it is the pathetic (non-existant) promotion of any sport that is not football, men's basketball, or men's lacrosse. Heck even those sports are not promoted well they just happen to be more popular.

If there's no promotion for any sports, then how can lack of promotion be the explanation for the difference in attendance?  ::screwy::

There is certainly pormotion for the sports I stated.

[bnr24]

I seriously doubt the women's team will ever sell out. They had a decent showing this year for the playoffs, but I went to a few regular season games too and Lynah was mostly empty and almost completely devoid of students. I can't see the women's team getting many more fans than it did for the playoffs this year.

While I too doubt that the women could consistantly or even frequently sellout games, they should draw mroe than they do. I firmly believe that the reason for that is the lack of promotion. It certainly isn't for the lack of a quality game to watch and Ithaca certianly has a passion for hockey. So I conclude that either there is a lot of sexist hockey fans in Ithaca or that people simple are not aware of the excellent entertainment they could have by attending the games. Since I tend to be an optimist I feel that it is the pathetic (non-existant) promotion of any sport that is not football, men's basketball, or men's lacrosse. Heck even those sports are not promoted well they just happen to be more popular.

Especially if they market it as quality hockey that you don't have to pay for.  Because, as a student, you do not have to pay for any women's games before playoffs.

[css228]

I seriously doubt the women's team will ever sell out. They had a decent showing this year for the playoffs, but I went to a few regular season games too and Lynah was mostly empty and almost completely devoid of students. I can't see the women's team getting many more fans than it did for the playoffs this year.

While I too doubt that the women could consistantly or even frequently sellout games, they should draw mroe than they do. I firmly believe that the reason for that is the lack of promotion. It certainly isn't for the lack of a quality game to watch and Ithaca certianly has a passion for hockey. So I conclude that either there is a lot of sexist hockey fans in Ithaca or that people simple are not aware of the excellent entertainment they could have by attending the games. Since I tend to be an optimist I feel that it is the pathetic (non-existant) promotion of any sport that is not football, men's basketball, or men's lacrosse. Heck even those sports are not promoted well they just happen to be more popular.

I go to women's games but I'm going to be completely honest, the rules of Women's games (aka the lack of hitting) make the game less entertaining to watch. Part of the reason I watch hockey is for the physicality of the sport. All of the fun hits are removed from the Women's game and all that's left is the scrums on the boards, And quite frankly I think its sexist that women aren't really allowed to hit because force = mass x acceleration, both of which your typical woman would have less of. Therefore, its actually safer for women to hit than men. Though I'm open to engage in the debate that no one should be hitting at all.

[Ben]

I seriously doubt the women's team will ever sell out. They had a decent showing this year for the playoffs, but I went to a few regular season games too and Lynah was mostly empty and almost completely devoid of students. I can't see the women's team getting many more fans than it did for the playoffs this year.

While I too doubt that the women could consistantly or even frequently sellout games, they should draw mroe than they do. I firmly believe that the reason for that is the lack of promotion. It certainly isn't for the lack of a quality game to watch and Ithaca certianly has a passion for hockey. So I conclude that either there is a lot of sexist hockey fans in Ithaca or that people simple are not aware of the excellent entertainment they could have by attending the games. Since I tend to be an optimist I feel that it is the pathetic (non-existant) promotion of any sport that is not football, men's basketball, or men's lacrosse. Heck even those sports are not promoted well they just happen to be more popular.

There were 2700 people in Lynah for the ECAC title game last season -- there are fans who will come out and watch. If we can hang on to Coach Derraugh for another 10+ years and the Athletics department pushes WICE more, then we should definitely be able to get 1500 or more every game. As it is, most students don't know that we have a great Women's Hockey team.

I go to women's games but I'm going to be completely honest, the rules of Women's games (aka the lack of hitting) make the game less entertaining to watch. Part of the reason I watch hockey is for the physicality of the sport.

I'm probably the only one (or one of few), but I like the lack of hitting in the women's game because it makes stick handling ability and speed more important.

[bnr24]

I seriously doubt the women's team will ever sell out. They had a decent showing this year for the playoffs, but I went to a few regular season games too and Lynah was mostly empty and almost completely devoid of students. I can't see the women's team getting many more fans than it did for the playoffs this year.

While I too doubt that the women could consistantly or even frequently sellout games, they should draw mroe than they do. I firmly believe that the reason for that is the lack of promotion. It certainly isn't for the lack of a quality game to watch and Ithaca certianly has a passion for hockey. So I conclude that either there is a lot of sexist hockey fans in Ithaca or that people simple are not aware of the excellent entertainment they could have by attending the games. Since I tend to be an optimist I feel that it is the pathetic (non-existant) promotion of any sport that is not football, men's basketball, or men's lacrosse. Heck even those sports are not promoted well they just happen to be more popular.

I go to women's games but I'm going to be completely honest, the rules of Women's games (aka the lack of hitting) make the game less entertaining to watch. Part of the reason I watch hockey is for the physicality of the sport. All of the fun hits are removed from the Women's game and all that's left is the scrums on the boards, And quite frankly I think its sexist that women aren't really allowed to hit because force = mass x acceleration, both of which your typical woman would have less of. Therefore, its actually safer for women to hit than men. Though I'm open to engage in the debate that no one should be hitting at all.

I honestly find the lack of hitting to be refreshing and actually a lot of times show better fundamentals and plays.  I went to a lot of women's games when I was there (the lack of cost was the reason my women's games outnumbered my men's games overall), and I liked that.  I can understand why the hitting is an integral part of the game, but I don't think excitement is lost without it.  (Side note, the little red bears who are often the team members sisters skating around durin half-time are too adorable to miss...)

[Aaron M. Griffin]

I seriously doubt the women's team will ever sell out. They had a decent showing this year for the playoffs, but I went to a few regular season games too and Lynah was mostly empty and almost completely devoid of students. I can't see the women's team getting many more fans than it did for the playoffs this year.

While I too doubt that the women could consistantly or even frequently sellout games, they should draw mroe than they do. I firmly believe that the reason for that is the lack of promotion. It certainly isn't for the lack of a quality game to watch and Ithaca certianly has a passion for hockey. So I conclude that either there is a lot of sexist hockey fans in Ithaca or that people simple are not aware of the excellent entertainment they could have by attending the games. Since I tend to be an optimist I feel that it is the pathetic (non-existant) promotion of any sport that is not football, men's basketball, or men's lacrosse. Heck even those sports are not promoted well they just happen to be more popular.

There were 2700 people in Lynah for the ECAC title game last season -- there are fans who will come out and watch. If we can hang on to Coach Derraugh for another 10+ years and the Athletics department pushes WICE more, then we should definitely be able to get 1500 or more every game. As it is, most students don't know that we have a great Women's Hockey team.

I go to women's games but I'm going to be completely honest, the rules of Women's games (aka the lack of hitting) make the game less entertaining to watch. Part of the reason I watch hockey is for the physicality of the sport.

I'm probably the only one (or one of few), but I like the lack of hitting in the women's game because it makes stick handling ability and speed more important.

I agree. I have separate issues that limit elements of my interest in women's ice hockey at Cornell that have nothing to do with the rules. I agree with css228 that it is a latent, sexist assumption that women can neither endure nor enjoy physicality in their sports. But, the rules in themselves do not limit my interest. What I find less intriguing about women's ice hockey at any level, whether it is the collegiate to the international level, is that there are only a handful of competitors who are legitimate contenders for a title each season. I love watching women's international hockey, however one knows that most commonly it is going to end with a grudge match between Canada and the United States for first and second place. Women's ice hockey games between those two teams have been among the best hockey games that I have watched. Collegiate women's ice hockey is not dissimilar. There are only a handful of teams that are legitimate contenders for a national title each year. Major upsets in the post-season are not at all common. There is very little parity. So, sustained interest throughout a season is hard to muster because it is not all too common that an upset occurs because the national contenders are on an entirely different plane than other programs. An upset like Cornell over Michigan in men's ice hockey is nearly nonexistent in women's ice hockey because of this lack of parity. Now there are rarely stories of Unions or Ferris States making the women's Frozen Four. I am very proud of our women making the Frozen Four three seasons in a row. I proudly include nearly winning a national title in women's ice hockey among the many athletic accolades of my graduating year. However, the lack of parity is why my interest does not pique until the post-season approaches in women's hockey. Yes, I will watch non-conference match-ups against burgeoning rivals like Mercyhurst or powers like BU during the regular season, but the relative predictability removes an element of interest for me and likely many other spectators. Yes, I realize that this is a catch-22. Parity will not increase until interest in more programs increases so that they receive more funds and can elevate their level of play, and such interest will not increase until the level of play of their programs and parity nationally increase.

Having said this, I love Cornell women's ice hockey. I laud their achievements as much as those from the men's ice hockey. However, my fervor is tempered by the fact that there is less competition nationally in women's ice hockey that makes it inherently less intriguing. It has nothing to do with anything on the ice and has everything to do with the national context in which each game is played.

[Trotsky]

However, my fervor is tempered by the fact that there is less competition nationally in women's ice hockey that makes it inherently less intriguing.

It's at a comparable stage of development with men's hockey in the 1950's when at any given time there were only a couple very high quality teams.  Look at the blowouts in the NCAA tournaments during that time.

As women's hockey matures and the pool of talented athletes and experienced coaches grows, we'll see similar development.  Women's sports will probably never draw like the men (sports are a crypto-fascist metaphor for war, after all ), but they're now well beyond the "isn't that cute?" first wave and the "it's the place to be to demonstrate your hipness" second wave, and now it's finally its own, legitimate, thing.

Watching women's hockey in the 80's was just boring -- as dedicated as they were, they sucked.  Even at the highest levels, in the first appearance in the Olympics, they were terrible.  It was like watching high school sports.  Unless a loved one was actually on the field, it was just mind-numbing to watch.  Now it's often interesting and worthwhile in its own right -- the players are good enough to be entertaining.  At least it is when Cornell is playing.  Watching two bottom feeder programs slog around would probably still be pretty painful, but hey, it's pretty painful in the men's game too.

[css228]

I seriously doubt the women's team will ever sell out. They had a decent showing this year for the playoffs, but I went to a few regular season games too and Lynah was mostly empty and almost completely devoid of students. I can't see the women's team getting many more fans than it did for the playoffs this year.

While I too doubt that the women could consistantly or even frequently sellout games, they should draw mroe than they do. I firmly believe that the reason for that is the lack of promotion. It certainly isn't for the lack of a quality game to watch and Ithaca certianly has a passion for hockey. So I conclude that either there is a lot of sexist hockey fans in Ithaca or that people simple are not aware of the excellent entertainment they could have by attending the games. Since I tend to be an optimist I feel that it is the pathetic (non-existant) promotion of any sport that is not football, men's basketball, or men's lacrosse. Heck even those sports are not promoted well they just happen to be more popular.

There were 2700 people in Lynah for the ECAC title game last season -- there are fans who will come out and watch. If we can hang on to Coach Derraugh for another 10+ years and the Athletics department pushes WICE more, then we should definitely be able to get 1500 or more every game. As it is, most students don't know that we have a great Women's Hockey team.

I go to women's games but I'm going to be completely honest, the rules of Women's games (aka the lack of hitting) make the game less entertaining to watch. Part of the reason I watch hockey is for the physicality of the sport.

I'm probably the only one (or one of few), but I like the lack of hitting in the women's game because it makes stick handling ability and speed more important.

I think that the best hockey occurs when you have a balance of all those elements and solid physical play. My favorite line of all time was the Legion of Doom (Renberg, Lindros, LeClair), which put up ridiculous numbers because it had the size and physicality of a checking line, but the skill and speed of a first line (was really upset when Renberg couldn't come back for the alumni game at the Winter Classic, but the Lindros to LeClair saucer pass and goal brought me back to my first hockey memories). I agree the speed and creativity of the Women's game is fun, but even without hitting, its just not as fast as the Men's game. Don't get me wrong I'm still entertained by the Women's game, I was still disappointed when they lost to Minnesota, but I just don't find it as fun as the Men's games. Partially due to the lack of hits. I just feel like all of the fun hitting is taken out of the game and all you're left with is the scrums on the boards, which are entertaining but get monotonous. It sometimes just feels like an all star game. Cycling feels too easy. Puck possession feels too easy. Maybe that's the talent of our team, but I also think it has to  do with the rules. Shifts like "The Shift" happen all the time in Women's hockey. It's the same reason I don't like Olympic Ice (although KHL ice is a decent compromise). I'm sure the level of competition as Aaron mentioned has something to do with it too.