Atlantic City-ECAC hockey attendance fiasco

[billhoward]

Attendance was so bad at the ECACs in Atlantic City in year 1 of the 3-year run that they were omitted from the scoresheets. The Atlantic City Press reported the Friday attendance as 3,357 in a 10,500-seat arena. Saturday's turnout seemed even lighter in the championship game. Would attendance Friday have been under 2,500 had Quinnipiac replaced Cornell as the fourth team in the tournament?

If you're a coach not in the tournament or an ECAC official of some kind (and there were lots of plastic credentials marked ECAC around peoples' necks in the building), this was a great place to be. Not so for the fans, all of whom except Princeton (had they made it) had a longer drive than to Albany. Remember the 1970 NCAA title game was played at the dinky 2,000-seat Olympic Arena in Lake Placid because it was a neat place for the NCAA hierarchy to bask for a week even if meant shutting out 4,000-plus Cornell fans. That was the height of officialdom's ignorance of the fans. At the time, the ECAC tournament was selling out 15,000-seat Boston Garden the week before.

See this snarky blog from the http://blog.timesunion.com/hockey/yale-cornell-to-meet-for-ecac-championship/8318/:

(Update: The "announced" attendance for 10,300-seat Boardwalk Hall was 3,357.)

In front of a lot of people disguised as empty seats, second-seeded Yale and fourth-seeded Cornell recorded shutout victories tonight to advance to the Eastern College Athletic Conference championship game at Boardwalk Hall in Atlantic City, N.J..

Yale defeated 12-seeded Colgate — which had eliminated RPI and Union the past two weekends — 4-0, and Cornell held on for a 3-0 victory over third-seeded Dartmouth.

"It wasn't a championship atmosphere in the crowd," Yale coach Keith Allain told the Atlantic City Press.

If Atlantic City is paying the ECAC for bringing the tournament to Atlantic City, would they be so disenchanted they try to buy out the next two years? Or is anything better than nothing in the building, which seems to be lightly used in early spring if you saw the schedule posted on the ticket office wall. And would the ECAC be so embarrassed that it would be willing to walk away, back to Albany, in hopes of getting back to the 5,000 - 7,500 attendance level? It's pretty clear the ECACs belong in Albany or Lake Placid.

Friday Cornell box score: http://www.cornellbigred.com/documents/2011/3/18/MIH.Semi2.pdf?id=3631
Saturday Cornell box score: http://www.cornellbigred.com/documents/2011/3/19/MIH.championship.pdf?id=3639

[dragonday92]

billhoward,

I agree with the general points you make about AC.
The business opportunity for the ecac aside, the tournamount should ultimately be played within the general boundaries of the conference.  Atlantic City just isn't it.  It's not accessible to most of the fans and its not the draw as a destination that fans either wanted or could afford.

[Rosey]

I believe my dad and I will go to a few nearby away games (e.g., Brown, Yale, Quinnipiac, RPI, Union) to make up for watching the tournament on TV next year.

[redice]

If the best they can do is to put 3500 fannies in seats, maybe they ought to consider some of the small facilities in the northeast and there are many....I don't know about the rest of you...But, if I'm going to a hockey game with 3499 other people, I'd rather be an a 4000 seat arena that seems nearly full (than a 10000 seat arena that seems like death valley)...What is their fixation with the large, but nearly empty arenas?

[Al DeFlorio]

But, if I'm going to a hockey game with 3499 other people, I'd rather be an a 4000 seat arena that seems nearly full (than a 10000 seat arena that seems like death valley).

You might feel differently if you were the 4001st person who wanted to see the game.

[billhoward]

[Atlantic City] is not accessible to most of the fans and it's not the draw as a destination that fans either wanted or could afford.

It's possible the ECAC in its mind transferred the popularity of the Frozen Four and its year-in-advance sellouts to the ECAC finals even though that was not the case in Albany (geographical center of the ECAC) or Lake Placid (a spiritual center for USA hockey). This for a league ('EZAC') that hadn't placed a team in the NCAA title game since 1990 or won it all since 1989). Maybe the ECAC tournament final round attendance changes with a victory by Yale or Union or (long shot) RPI.

[imafrshmn]

I don't know how much the quality of the playing surface plays into the venue discussion at the league office, but geez that ice was horrendous.

[billhoward]

I don't know how much the quality of the playing surface plays into the venue discussion at the league office, but geez that ice was horrendous.

Heading into Saturday's game, we talked about how the allegedly rough ice would slow down Yale's precision offense.

[Jim Hyla]

The business opportunity for the ecac aside, the tournamount should ultimately be played within the general boundaries of the conference.  Atlantic City just isn't it.  It's not accessible to most of the fans and its not the draw as a destination that fans either wanted or could afford.

Agee. I for one would like to see us go back to Boston. As some remember, after Hockey East split off, the ECAC and Hockey East had combined finals at Boston Garden (HockeyFest 90). There was no consolation game, but rather both finals on Sat. One set of semis on Thursday, the other on Friday. The major problem that I saw was it was just too popular. We couldn't both have finals Sat. PM.

So what's wrong with semis on Thursday and finals Saturday afternoon. We could all watch Hockey East semis and finals if we wanted, and vice versa. I don't know about costs with the current Garden, but I'd certainly plan on going every year, regardless of CU in or not. I could also bring my family for a fun weekend. They can do something else if they don't want to see all the games. Sure the games on Thursday would be more difficult to swing, but if it's successful we might be able to alternate with Hockey East, although I doubt they'd agree to that.

I don't know about having both the Bruins and Celtics away for that long, but I can't imagine that couldn't be worked out.

Regardless of its problems, I can almost guarantee there would be a bigger crowd. It is a hockey town, with a lot of ECAC grads living there, and I think there would be a lot of enthusiasm. We'd certainly get more press than at AC.

I can always hope.

[BigRedIslander '03]

The business opportunity for the ecac aside, the tournamount should ultimately be played within the general boundaries of the conference.  Atlantic City just isn't it.  It's not accessible to most of the fans and its not the draw as a destination that fans either wanted or could afford.

Agee. I for one would like to see us go back to Boston. As some remember, after Hockey East split off, the ECAC and Hockey East had combined finals at Boston Garden (HockeyFest 90). There was no consolation game, but rather both finals on Sat. One set of semis on Thursday, the other on Friday. The major problem that I saw was it was just too popular. We couldn't both have finals Sat. PM.

So what's wrong with semis on Thursday and finals Saturday afternoon. We could all watch Hockey East semis and finals if we wanted, and vice versa. I don't know about costs with the current Garden, but I'd certainly plan on going every year, regardless of CU in or not. I could also bring my family for a fun weekend. They can do something else if they don't want to see all the games. Sure the games on Thursday would be more difficult to swing, but if it's successful we might be able to alternate with Hockey East, although I doubt they'd agree to that.

I don't know about having both the Bruins and Celtics away for that long, but I can't imagine that couldn't be worked out.

Regardless of its problems, I can almost guarantee there would be a bigger crowd. It is a hockey town, with a lot of ECAC grads living there, and I think there would be a lot of enthusiasm. We'd certainly get more press than at AC.

I can always hope.

This would be amazing...but hockey east draws too well already. Without Maine or BU at the garden, they drew 14571 for the final and 16003 for the semi finals. Too many fans for both leagues would be shut out and thus there's little advantage to Hockey east

P.S. PArt of the reason for this is that they offer $10 tickets for students each night. What are the ECACs charging for students nowadays?

[Jim Hyla]

The business opportunity for the ecac aside, the tournamount should ultimately be played within the general boundaries of the conference.  Atlantic City just isn't it.  It's not accessible to most of the fans and its not the draw as a destination that fans either wanted or could afford.

Agee. I for one would like to see us go back to Boston. As some remember, after Hockey East split off, the ECAC and Hockey East had combined finals at Boston Garden (HockeyFest 90). There was no consolation game, but rather both finals on Sat. One set of semis on Thursday, the other on Friday. The major problem that I saw was it was just too popular. We couldn't both have finals Sat. PM.

So what's wrong with semis on Thursday and finals Saturday afternoon. We could all watch Hockey East semis and finals if we wanted, and vice versa. I don't know about costs with the current Garden, but I'd certainly plan on going every year, regardless of CU in or not. I could also bring my family for a fun weekend. They can do something else if they don't want to see all the games. Sure the games on Thursday would be more difficult to swing, but if it's successful we might be able to alternate with Hockey East, although I doubt they'd agree to that.

I don't know about having both the Bruins and Celtics away for that long, but I can't imagine that couldn't be worked out.

Regardless of its problems, I can almost guarantee there would be a bigger crowd. It is a hockey town, with a lot of ECAC grads living there, and I think there would be a lot of enthusiasm. We'd certainly get more press than at AC.

I can always hope.

This would be amazing...but hockey east draws too well already. Without Maine or BU at the garden, they drew 14571 for the final and 16003 for the semi finals. Too many fans for both leagues would be shut out and thus there's little advantage to Hockey east

P.S. PArt of the reason for this is that they offer $10 tickets for students each night. What are the ECACs charging for students nowadays?

Sorry that I wasn't more clear. My idea is to have separate semis for each league, one set Thursday, one set Friday. Then 2 different finals; with ECAC on Thursday, they would play an early game, say 1PM, Saturday; then Hockey East final Saturday night, maybe 7 or 8PM. There would be no consolations, unless you wanted to squeeze them in before their finals.

So, 6 games over 3 days, with separate crowds for each final. Thus we could accommodate each leagues crowds. Those of us who want to go to each final could leave our car parked, enjoy the city and have a nice meal.

[BigRedIslander '03]

Sorry that I wasn't more clear. My idea is to have separate semis for each league, one set Thursday, one set Friday. Then 2 different finals; with ECAC on Thursday, they would play an early game, say 1PM, Saturday; then Hockey East final Saturday night, maybe 7 or 8PM. There would be no consolations, unless you wanted to squeeze them in before their finals.

So, 6 games over 3 days, with separate crowds for each final. Thus we could accommodate each leagues crowds. Those of us who want to go to each final could leave our car parked, enjoy the city and have a nice meal.

That would be amazing...I'll hope with you. The only negative would be the ice conditions by Sat night.

[TimV]

What are you guys talking about?  It was all fabulous.  I know, because I read it here.::screwy::

[billhoward]

[clear]

This is the ECAC. The blue line is the driving circumference of the ECAC schools on the league's perimeter: Start at Cornell, drive to Princeton, then Yale and Quinnipiac, onto Brown and Harvard, then up north to Dartmouth, St. Lawrence and Clarkson, and back to Ithaca. The purple lines are the boundaries if you were flying non-stop (with no layover in Pittsburgh or Charlotte), plus some lines connecting the outlier schools. It shows Lake Placid is just within the northern extreme of the ECAC schools, Albany is ground zero, and Atlantic City is outside the boundary. Note Atlantic City lies as far south as Baltimore and West Virginia, known for sports other than college hockey. As for Atlantic City: Nice try, ECAC. Didn't work.

[billhoward]

What are you guys talking about?  It was all fabulous.  I know, because I read it here.::screwy::

"Much of the hockey was reminiscent of the kind played by the Atlantic City Boardwalk Bullies, a professional, minor-league hockey team that played at Boardwalk Hall from 2001-2005. There were hard hits and skaters zipping across the ice."

So that's what they were doing: zipping.