Atlantic City-ECAC hockey attendance fiasco

[ftyuv]

That's a great map -- says it all!

As a Boston resident, I would love to have the ECAC finals here! And I agree that if they teamed it up with HE, they'd have one hell of a show.

[judy]

[Atlantic City] is not accessible to most of the fans and it's not the draw as a destination that fans either wanted or could afford.

It's possible the ECAC in its mind transferred the popularity of the Frozen Four and its year-in-advance sellouts to the ECAC finals even though that was not the case in Albany (geographical center of the ECAC) or Lake Placid (a spiritual center for USA hockey).

If that's what the league is thinking, I think that they should give us nice welcome goody bags filled with whatever crack they're smoking when we show up for the games.

If they want to hold the tourny at some locale that just outside of the "boundries", I vote for DC or Philly. But then, DC had the squeakball tourny this weekend. Stupid squeakball. ::cuss::

[Jim Hyla]

Thanks Bill, if only the powers to be would read this thread.

[billhoward]

Thanks Bill, if only the powers to be would read this thread.

Thanks, Jim. You know me: only in it for the good of the game and never wanting to stir up trouble. More seriously, I think the people at the ECAC *want* ECAC hockey to be successful. They have trouble figuring out how, and perhaps they put too much emphasis on finding a location that's delightful for all the ECAC coaches and assistants and athletic directors and referees to gather and who perhaps are getting reasonable prices on hotel rooms booked well in advance. And not enough emphasis on the distance from the center point of ECAC hockey, or the cost to students and young alumni saddled with loan payments. Everybody agrees Albany has the reputation of being a dreadful town to spend the weekend in but really, you probably drove in Friday during the day, so the only time you have to kill is from when you wake up and finish breakfast until game time.

You know, if the weather was the same 77 degrees Saturday it was Friday, it would have been nirvana enjoyed by the precious few. Imagine going to the title game suffering from sunburn and with sand in your sneakers.

The ECAC also has to work through other issues, such as concerns about the officiating and that pressbox verbal fistfight between a writer and the ECAC's head of officiating over the quality of the calls. A lot on their plates.

[Josh '99]

It's possible the ECAC in its mind transferred the popularity of the Frozen Four and its year-in-advance sellouts to the ECAC finals even though that was not the case in Albany (geographical center of the ECAC) or Lake Placid (a spiritual center for USA hockey).

So...  why would they "transfer" that, then?

[billhoward]

It's possible the ECAC in its mind transferred the popularity of the Frozen Four and its year-in-advance sellouts to the ECAC finals even though that was not the case in Albany (geographical center of the ECAC) or Lake Placid (a spiritual center for USA hockey).

So...  why would they "transfer" that, then?

You ever been in a situation where you think, "Anything has to be better than this"? Albany attendance looked pretty sparse in a building with a hockey capacity of 14,750. Perhaps the ECAC figured the 5,000-7,500 it was drawing would transfer intact to the Jersey Shore. I'm trying to recall if Albany attendance figures in recent years were quoted as closer to 10,000 which would be counting people who bought a ticket and attended just one of the day's two games (that seems legit), or who bought but never attended.

[Josh '99]

It's possible the ECAC in its mind transferred the popularity of the Frozen Four and its year-in-advance sellouts to the ECAC finals even though that was not the case in Albany (geographical center of the ECAC) or Lake Placid (a spiritual center for USA hockey).

So...  why would they "transfer" that, then?

You ever been in a situation where you think, "Anything has to be better than this"? Albany attendance looked pretty sparse in a building with a hockey capacity of 14,750. Perhaps the ECAC figured the 5,000-7,500 it was drawing would transfer intact to the Jersey Shore. I'm trying to recall if Albany attendance figures in recent years were quoted as closer to 10,000 which would be counting people who bought a ticket and attended just one of the day's two games (that seems legit), or who bought but never attended.

And the Frozen Four has to do with this thought process how?

[Josh '99]

I have no desire to be the undercard in Boston.  Albany was fine.

[kingpin248]

It's possible the ECAC in its mind transferred the popularity of the Frozen Four and its year-in-advance sellouts to the ECAC finals even though that was not the case in Albany (geographical center of the ECAC) or Lake Placid (a spiritual center for USA hockey).

So...  why would they "transfer" that, then?

You ever been in a situation where you think, "Anything has to be better than this"? Albany attendance looked pretty sparse in a building with a hockey capacity of 14,750. Perhaps the ECAC figured the 5,000-7,500 it was drawing would transfer intact to the Jersey Shore. I'm trying to recall if Albany attendance figures in recent years were quoted as closer to 10,000 which would be counting people who bought a ticket and attended just one of the day's two games (that seems legit), or who bought but never attended.

ECAC Championship Game attendance figures
2011: 4,126 (Yale, Cornell, Dartmouth, Colgate)
2010: 6,505 (Cornell, Union, Brown, St. Lawrence)
2009: 4,857 (Yale, Cornell, St. Lawrence, Princeton)
2008: 4,851 (Princeton, Harvard, Cornell, Colgate)
2007: 5,565 (Clarkson, Quinnipiac, St. Lawrence, Dartmouth)
2006: 7,093 (Harvard, Cornell, Dartmouth, Colgate)
2005: 8,637 (Cornell, Harvard, Colgate, Vermont)
2004: 6,489 (Harvard, Clarkson, Colgate, Dartmouth)
2003: 8,296 (Cornell, Harvard, Dartmouth, Brown)

2003-2010 attendance numbers from box scores at collegehockeystats.net. I checked the box scores from the consolation games of the last couple of years, and they either showed "0" or the same total as the final, so I am guessing those figures are number of tickets sold.

[dbilmes]

After driving 4 hours each way through delightful NYC area traffic, compared to a stress-free 2-hour drive to Albany, I vote for anywhere but Atlantic City. If I was a casino gambler, I might feel differently. But I'd rather spend my discretionary funds watching Cornell hockey instead of adding to Donald Trump's bank account.

[redice]

But, if I'm going to a hockey game with 3499 other people, I'd rather be an a 4000 seat arena that seems nearly full (than a 10000 seat arena that seems like death valley).

You might feel differently if you were the 4001st person who wanted to see the game.

True that...But the 4001st fan seemed to be missing this year...Or was he/she disguised as an empty seat?

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

Could you imagine what the attendance would have been had a bad-travelling school like Brown been the fourth team instead of Yale?  Wow, oh wow.

And FWIW, there were lines at the strip club across the street for Boardwalk Hall last night as I left the arena.  Somebody was apparently enjoying their evening.

Plus I got to read a newspaper on the way home this morning (I was driving).  There was an accident in the construction zone on the Blue Route that stopped traffic for an hour.

I really disliked Albany, but please, anyplace but Atlantic City!

[billhoward]

[clear]

Matt, thanks for pulling together those numbers. I was looking for trends.

The obvious: It's going down over time. (2003 is the first year in Albany after the years in Lake Placid.)

Less obvious: The biggest falloffs year/year were:
-22% Cornell misses the 2004 tournament
-22% Cornell misses the 2007 tournament
-37% ECAC misses the point (of fan-based hockey venues) and moves to Atlantic City.
-18% [no obvious reason for 2006 - Cornell makes the final vs. Harvard]
-13% Cornell loses in the semifinals in 2008, perhaps Cornell fans abandon Albany a day early

The biggest increase, +34%, was Union making the ECAC final four in 2010 and to the title game, followed by +33%, Cornell making it back to the ECAC final four in 2005. So having a local team in the tournament get through to the final helps, especially when Cornell is the other title game opponent.

If Union shows signs of being an ongoing powerhouse, not just a 2-3 year blip of exellence, that would speak well to moving back to Albany.

[css228]

[Atlantic City] is not accessible to most of the fans and it's not the draw as a destination that fans either wanted or could afford.

It's possible the ECAC in its mind transferred the popularity of the Frozen Four and its year-in-advance sellouts to the ECAC finals even though that was not the case in Albany (geographical center of the ECAC) or Lake Placid (a spiritual center for USA hockey).

If that's what the league is thinking, I think that they should give us nice welcome goody bags filled with whatever crack they're smoking when we show up for the games.

If they want to hold the tourny at some locale that just outside of the "boundries", I vote for DC or Philly. But then, DC had the squeakball tourny this weekend. Stupid squeakball. ::cuss::

Unfortunately DC is too far and the perfect stadium for this tourney in Philly, the Spectrum, is being torn down. The Wachovia (I mean Wells Fargo) Center, is just way too large for a tournament like this. How many does Penn's Class of '23 Ice Rink hold? That could work maybe?

[judy]

[Atlantic City] is not accessible to most of the fans and it's not the draw as a destination that fans either wanted or could afford.

It's possible the ECAC in its mind transferred the popularity of the Frozen Four and its year-in-advance sellouts to the ECAC finals even though that was not the case in Albany (geographical center of the ECAC) or Lake Placid (a spiritual center for USA hockey).

If that's what the league is thinking, I think that they should give us nice welcome goody bags filled with whatever crack they're smoking when we show up for the games.

If they want to hold the tourny at some locale that just outside of the "boundries", I vote for DC or Philly. But then, DC had the squeakball tourny this weekend. Stupid squeakball. ::cuss::

Unfortunately DC is too far and the perfect stadium for this tourney in Philly, the Spectrum, is being torn down. The Wachovia (I mean Wells Fargo) Center, is just way too large for a tournament like this. How many does Penn's Class of '23 Ice Rink hold? That could work maybe?

Well, I did say outside the boundries. Of course, I'm still waiting for the Alaska trip