Latest Cornell football candidates

[BigRedAllDay]

According to footballscoop.com Cornell: Syracuse assistant Bob Casullo is not a candidate.  We have heard that Cornell may have sweetened the deal for a coach that interviewed early on.

I am either guessing Bill Lazor or Linebackers coach from Penn State

[CUontheslopes]

Are there really people out there who would adjust their giving based on the success of the football team?  (Other than, perhaps, football alumni who matriculate in these hypothetical boom times and had a better time on campus because they weren't deeply demoralized every Saturday?)

Lauren's on the right track here. We should just drop football. It's got to be costing much more money than it's bringing in, even if we don't give athletic scholarships. Most of the students could care less (with the exception of the players, of course). Based on decades of mediocrity, it's hard to see the program being turned around in a short time span. Yes, I know the basketball team did that, but you don't need to find as many good players as you do to turn a football program around. There would certainly be a huge outcry from some alumni, but I'd rather see the resources we waste on football being used somewhere else, such as being used to improve sports that we can be competitive in. And yes, we have other sports teams which have also done poorly for a long time (i.e. men's soccer). But they don't cost as much money as the football program. We can always schedule Homecoming Weekend for a big field hockey game instead of a football game!

Absolutely absurd. If Cornell gave up football there would be hundreds, if not thousands, of angry alumni (particularly older READ: wealthier, more likely to give large donations to the university) who would never give another dime to Cornell. Cornell football, while bad of recent, is a tradition that should be resurrected, not abandoned. Next time lacrosse or hockey has a few down years, I'd love to hear you say the same thing. As a current law student and a recent graduate, I can tell you that, yes a majority of the students don't care, but a significant portion do. Many more would care if the team were competing for an Ivy title. The problem is that the Ivy League wallows in FCS and can't even compete in the playoffs there. Rather than eliminating the program, the league should join FBS, play each other and the service academies or other academically inclined institutions. It'd be a change in name only and people would instantly care again because they wouldn't think they were watching 2nd class football.

[jkahn]

Rather than eliminating the program, the league should join FBS, play each other and the service academies or other academically inclined institutions. It'd be a change in name only and people would instantly care again because they wouldn't think they were watching 2nd class football.

Can't just join the FBS.  FBS membership requirements include 15,000 average attendance and awarding at least 90% of the scholarship limit.  The service academies have certain exemptions.

[CornellChris]

Lauren's on the right track here. We should just drop football. It's got to be costing much more money than it's bringing in, even if we don't give athletic scholarships. Most of the students could care less (with the exception of the players, of course). Based on decades of mediocrity, it's hard to see the program being turned around in a short time span. Yes, I know the basketball team did that, but you don't need to find as many good players as you do to turn a football program around. There would certainly be a huge outcry from some alumni, but I'd rather see the resources we waste on football being used somewhere else, such as being used to improve sports that we can be competitive in. And yes, we have other sports teams which have also done poorly for a long time (i.e. men's soccer). But they don't cost as much money as the football program. We can always schedule Homecoming Weekend for a big field hockey game instead of a football game!

I'm almost hesitant to respond to this, because I'm wary of unduly lending credence to what I think is an absurd idea. Cornell will never end football in our lifetime, so it's silly to discuss. Then again, message boards seemingly exist so that we can engage in silly "what if" games, so...

I loathe the attitude presented in the above post. First of all, it runs counter to the entire mission of Cornell University: "I would found an institution where any person can find instruction in any study." That includes football. Cornell's head coach is a teacher and that field is a classroom. If some high-achieving 18 year old wants to master engineering, business management, and football, he should be able to do all three at Cornell. Prominent schools like Syracuse don't even offer baseball or hockey. Cornell offers pretty much everything because that's our chosen mission. Heck, we even have a sprint football team.

Second, I'm suspicious of how much money we're really "losing" on football. As you said, we're obviously not out any scholarship money. Further, although attendance is not where it should be, it's not like the stands are empty. People are coming (and paying) to see these kids in numbers far greater than most other CU teams. It could (and should) be MORE people, but I went to two games last year and the stands were hardlly empty.

I also imagine football receives more directed donations than any other sport outside hockey, so money is definitely coming in. Besides, it's not like we're spending a fortune on travel expenses. The team only leaves campus 5 times a year. As such, I refuse to believe the football program is bleeding money unless I see hard numbers to the contrary.

Third, the recent history of college football is littered with examples of upstart coaches coming to mediocre/atrocious programs and turning them around in a relatively short period of time. Cornell is one good coaching hire away from being competitive at the FCS level. To give up and say "it can't be done," is absurd because history teaches us that it clearly CAN be done. If small schools in obscure states with a fraction of our funding can find somebody to make them relevant, so can we. Noel just needs to make the right choice. It wasn't that long ago that the idea of ANYONE ever winning at Rutgers seemed laughable.

Fourth, Cornell has won NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS in football. I don't care how many decades ago they were, they still happened. Ivy League schools, more than any other, should appreciate the importance of respecting and honoring our history. Giving up and disbanding a once proud program does not honor that history. Rehabilitating the program and putting in the time, energy, and resources necessary to re-establish it DOES.

Most importantly, I would rather not have the dubious distinction of being the ONLY Ivy not to offer football. I'm sure that would look great to prospective students.

[imafrshmn]

Fourth, Cornell has won NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS in football. I don't care how many decades ago they were, they still happened. Ivy League schools, more than any other, should appreciate the importance of respecting and honoring our history. Giving up and disbanding a once proud program does not honor that history. Rehabilitating the program and putting in the time, energy, and resources necessary to re-establish it DOES.

U of Chicago won a couple national championships and walked away from the varsity game.  In retrospect, it was probably a smart move for them.  

Most importantly, I would rather not have the dubious distinction of being the ONLY Ivy not to offer football. I'm sure that would look great to prospective students.

I agree here.  Football was what started the Ivy League in the first place.  It's the flagship sport.  It's always been a significant part of student life, even if that's been on the decline.  I think that as long as Ivy football can avoid falling into the trap of a facilities arms race, the sort of thing that plagues FBS schools, and not try to break down the Ivy/FCS playoff barrier, it will be sustainable.

[KeithK]

I think that as long as Ivy football can avoid falling into the trap of a facilities arms race, the sort of thing that plagues FBS schools, and not try to break down the Ivy/FCS playoff barrier, it will be sustainable.

Why in the world should Ivy schools not participate in post season football games?  They do in every other sport as far as I know.  Where's the difference there?

[TimV]

Lauren's on the right track here. We should just drop football. It's got to be costing much more money than it's bringing in, even if we don't give athletic scholarships. Most of the students could care less (with the exception of the players, of course). Based on decades of mediocrity, it's hard to see the program being turned around in a short time span. Yes, I know the basketball team did that, but you don't need to find as many good players as you do to turn a football program around. There would certainly be a huge outcry from some alumni, but I'd rather see the resources we waste on football being used somewhere else, such as being used to improve sports that we can be competitive in. And yes, we have other sports teams which have also done poorly for a long time (i.e. men's soccer). But they don't cost as much money as the football program. We can always schedule Homecoming Weekend for a big field hockey game instead of a football game!

Oh Yeah... Great idea.  So good, in fact, that ALL schools should drop sports in which they are not successful.  We wouldn't have to be bothered by Dartmouth lacrosse any more.  Or Clarkson Hockey.  Sorry Dpprk.  You lose.  All of Columbia's teams could vanish, except fencing. Great!::screwy::

[Lauren '06]

To clarify my own position here: dbilmes may be advocating to fold the football team, but I'm not.  I just don't understand why fixing it at any cost is such a priority for people given a) the program's long-standing mediocrity and b) the baffling restrictions placed on the sport by the Ivy League.  I don't see people so aggressive about changing the fortunes of the baseball team, or the soccer team, or any other non-football sport that's not raking in league championships... many of which receive no support from the university at all.  What's so great about football that it deserves more attention?  

I saw this same attitude in high school.  Well, the pool may practically be a condemned site and the lacrosse team practices on a cracked parking lot, but god forbid the football team doesn't have new helmets and clinics and mandatory school-sponsored pep rallies every single year.  And my high school team wallowed in perennial futility too.  I do not get the fixation.  Is it really all about the gate?

[KeithK]

To clarify my own position here: dbilmes may be advocating to fold the football team, but I'm not.  I just don't understand why fixing it at any cost is such a priority  for people  given a) the program's long-standing mediocrity and b) the baffling restrictions placed on the sport by the Ivy League.

I don't think anyone is suggesting we need to fix football "at any cost". People just have the impression that more could be done to create a good Ivy football program. In the grand scheme of things it shouldn't be that hard to build a football program that can win an Ivy title once in a while.

I don't see people so aggressive about changing the fortunes of the baseball team, or the soccer team, or any other non-football sport that's not raking in league championships... many of which receive no support from the university at all.  What's so great about football that it deserves more attention?  

Because it's football!

Now I say this as someone who really doesn't give a rats ass about Cornell football and pretty much never has. (I am an NFL fan.) Whether you like it or , football has a certain status among American sports. A lot of people like the sport and like to watch the sport. It's ingrained in American culture. More so than soccer or lacrosse or swimming or (gulp) baseball, especially at the college level.

[Dpperk29]

Lauren's on the right track here. We should just drop football. It's got to be costing much more money than it's bringing in, even if we don't give athletic scholarships. Most of the students could care less (with the exception of the players, of course). Based on decades of mediocrity, it's hard to see the program being turned around in a short time span. Yes, I know the basketball team did that, but you don't need to find as many good players as you do to turn a football program around. There would certainly be a huge outcry from some alumni, but I'd rather see the resources we waste on football being used somewhere else, such as being used to improve sports that we can be competitive in. And yes, we have other sports teams which have also done poorly for a long time (i.e. men's soccer). But they don't cost as much money as the football program. We can always schedule Homecoming Weekend for a big field hockey game instead of a football game!

Oh Yeah... Great idea.  So good, in fact, that ALL schools should drop sports in which they are not successful.  We wouldn't have to be bothered by Dartmouth lacrosse any more.  Or Clarkson Hockey.  Sorry Dpprk.  You lose.  All of Columbia's teams could vanish, except fencing. Great!::screwy::

Haha, Funny.

Could you atleast spell my name right? I can live without the 29, but who misses the e? and you choose clarkson hockey? (I won't remind you that Clarkson has a more recent ECAC title than Cornell.) Why not Brown? or Union? or AIC? there losing is much more prolific than Clarkson's has ever been.

[scoop85]

and you choose clarkson hockey? (I won't remind you that Clarkson has a more recent ECAC title than Cornell.) Why not Brown? or Union? or AIC? there losing is much more prolific than Clarkson's has ever been.

Probably because no one from those schools posts on this Forum :-}

[YankeeLobo]

Are there really people out there who would adjust their giving based on the success of the football team?  (Other than, perhaps, football alumni who matriculate in these hypothetical boom times and had a better time on campus because they weren't deeply demoralized every Saturday?)

Lauren's on the right track here. We should just drop football. It's got to be costing much more money than it's bringing in, even if we don't give athletic scholarships. Most of the students could care less (with the exception of the players, of course). Based on decades of mediocrity, it's hard to see the program being turned around in a short time span. Yes, I know the basketball team did that, but you don't need to find as many good players as you do to turn a football program around. There would certainly be a huge outcry from some alumni, but I'd rather see the resources we waste on football being used somewhere else, such as being used to improve sports that we can be competitive in. And yes, we have other sports teams which have also done poorly for a long time (i.e. men's soccer). But they don't cost as much money as the football program. We can always schedule Homecoming Weekend for a big field hockey game instead of a football game!

Absolutely absurd. If Cornell gave up football there would be hundreds, if not thousands, of angry alumni (particularly older READ: wealthier, more likely to give large donations to the university) who would never give another dime to Cornell. Cornell football, while bad of recent, is a tradition that should be resurrected, not abandoned. Next time lacrosse or hockey has a few down years, I'd love to hear you say the same thing. As a current law student and a recent graduate, I can tell you that, yes a majority of the students don't care, but a significant portion do. Many more would care if the team were competing for an Ivy title. The problem is that the Ivy League wallows in FCS and can't even compete in the playoffs there. Rather than eliminating the program, the league should join FBS, play each other and the service academies or other academically inclined institutions. It'd be a change in name only and people would instantly care again because they wouldn't think they were watching 2nd class football.

What makes you think Cornell could ever compete in the FBS or against the service academies?  That's an outrageous statement.  We belong to one of the worst leagues in the FCS, joining FBS is out of the question.  The bottom line is that it's too difficult to attract 20+ kids per year to Cornell to play football.  The Northeast is a graveyard for football recruiting.  Why do you think our hockey and lacrosse programs are consistently among the best in the country?   Canada's next door (all our players are Canadian) and lacrosse is religion in the state of NY and New England.  

The Cornell football program needs to work with the raw materials they've got.  How about this for a start?  Don't hire bums like Jim Knowles just because they're an alumnus of the school, hire a competent coach.  Football is 80% coaching.  If you find the right coach who can out-recruit the Harvard's and Yale's, we can compete in the league.  To set our sights any higher is really naive.  

And by the way, Cornell does NOT have a football tradition, just because we won 4 national championships between 1915 and 1939.  No one cares.  The era of football when the Army's and Navy's and Princeton's of the world compete has been over since before my parents were born.  No current college football fans care.  College football is big business now, not a bunch of white boy leatherheads.

[billhoward]

U of Chicago walked away from football. Now, a friend's daughter who visited then turned Chicago down for Brown (Cornell waitlisted her) said, "[U of] Chicago is where fun goes to die." I don't think football going away made Chicago an unfun place to be but maybe over time the school got rid of things that weren't central to its mission of being about education, and the overall experience suffered.

This is a discussion in a vacuum. Shuttering the football program isn't going to happen.

[dbilmes]

This is a discussion in a vacuum. Shuttering the football program isn't going to happen.

I know full well Cornell isn't going to drop its football program, even if few people really care about it. But it's always fun to get people riled up -- especially on eLynah, where it doesn't take much  to do so!
Perhaps I'm jaded because the football team got off to a 3-0-1 start my freshman year and then went winless the rest of the season. Or perhaps because I was there the season we beat Bucknell on opening day, and then lost the rest of our games, culminating with a home loss to Columbia at which we proudly chanted, "We're No. 8!" as the final seconds ticked down. Of course that led to the infamous firing of George Siefert, who later proved to be such a terrible coach that he only won two Super Bowls. Or perhaps because I was there for the beginning of the Bob Blackman era, which proved that it doesn't matter how good the coach is, he still needs some good players in order to win.

[billhoward]

Andy Noel on the second intermission interview of the ND-Cornell game Friday said for journalists to come back to Ithaca next week for important news. Which I take to mean the naming of a coach rather fulfilling Dave Bilmes' desire of no football losses next year on account of no team.