Latest Cornell football candidates

[Ken711]

the University from the President to the admissions office has to provide the new staff with all the support and resources they require to finally build a championship program in football at Cornell!

We're lousy, but is there any indication the football program is denied needed resources by Cornell?  They seem to have excellent facilities.  Short of lowering admissions standards -- not an acceptable option -- what else should they be doing?

One thing is the ability to match the financial packaging being offered by other Ivy schools to attract top recruits. Also providing recruiting resources to the staff to recruit on a nationwide basis.

[Lauren '06]

We can't go through another 5-6 years to see if the coach is a failure again.  Andy Noel needs to get this hire right this time, and more importantly, the University from the President to the admissions office has to provide the new staff with all the support and resources they require to finally build a championship program in football at Cornell!

But do they?  Do they really?  I understand and respect the fact that other people care about the possibilities of Cornell football and would like to see them succeed, but let's be real here.  What does an Ivy Championship in football rate--and the way things are now that is the absolute highest honor they can hope for even in the best of circumstances--compared to all the other things those people could be spending their time, money, and energy on?

[Trotsky]

What does an Ivy Championship in football rate--and the way things are now that is the absolute highest honor they can hope for even in the best of circumstances--compared to all the other things those people could be spending their time, money, and energy on?

What it comes down to for Cornell is, if I spend $X on winning an Ivy championship, will I get back $X+1 in additional giving because alums are happy (or because the next Ed Marinaro class of '15 gives his NFL signing bonus to the Hotel school.


A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?

You wouldn't believe.

Which car company do you work for?

A major one.

[Lauren '06]

Are there really people out there who would adjust their giving based on the success of the football team?  (Other than, perhaps, football alumni who matriculate in these hypothetical boom times and had a better time on campus because they weren't deeply demoralized every Saturday?)

[KeithK]

Are there really people out there who would adjust their giving based on the success of the football team?  (Other than, perhaps, football alumni who matriculate in these hypothetical boom times and had a better time on campus because they weren't deeply demoralized every Saturday?)

Are there really people out there who would adjust their giving based on the success of the hockey team?  Absolutely.  I'm one.  Not that I'd necessarily give less to hockey if the program hit a down period.  But if hockey hadn't been big at Cornell I would probably not have given that mone. Which would mean less money for Cornell, since I'm not taking money I already planned to give to Cornell and redirecting it from unrestricted to hockey. It's just additional hockey money.

The same thing would apply to football for some folks. I can't put a number on this effect - and I question to what extent the AD can either - but it's a real effect.

[KeithK]

A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

That's exactly how your company should act. Life is all about risk-reward, cost-benefit analyses.

[billhoward]

A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

That's exactly how your company should act. Life is all about risk-reward, cost-benefit analyses.

Morality occasionally rears its ugly head. The automakers - the Germans at least - freely license (give away) some crash protection technology. Most recently BMW figured how to predict the chance of injury in accidents so they could tell if this specific accident has a higer chance of undetected internal injury, say a side impact with a torn aorta where the victim doesn't know he's in trouble until he exsanguinates. So they give the underlying algorithms freely to GM to use with OnStar. It isn't entirely altruistic: BMW wants CDC to require 911 call centers to send more help sooner if the telematics crash report says the accident warrants an ambulance right now. And BMW plus OnStar crash data will provide more info sooner so CDC can make up its mind.

[billhoward]

Or you get a guy who wants to build the program and stay.  Surely not everyone is just going for the brass ring?

I agree.  Penn's Bagnoli has been there for 18 years.

Carm Cozza was at Yale seemingly forever and won more than his share of titles.

It was a different coaching world back then, and the Ivies were more "relevant."

Different in the 60s and 70s, perhaps, but the Ivies were no more "relevant" in the 80s and 90s, and that was half of Cozza's tenure at Yale.  Surely there's someone out there who knows how to coach winning football and doesn't want to deal with guns, rape, felonies, and players who wouldn't recognize a classroom should they ever stumble into one.

And how many Ivy coaches in this "less-relevant" Ivy era have moved on to big-time head-coaching positions?  "Back then" Blackman did (and he was brilliant at Dartmouth), but soon returned...chastened.

Al, is it possible that - all other things being equal - players respond better to a coach who's in his 30s or 40s than 60s?

[Al DeFlorio]

the University from the President to the admissions office has to provide the new staff with all the support and resources they require to finally build a championship program in football at Cornell!

We're lousy, but is there any indication the football program is denied needed resources by Cornell?  They seem to have excellent facilities.  Short of lowering admissions standards -- not an acceptable option -- what else should they be doing?

One thing is the ability to match the financial packaging being offered by other Ivy schools to attract top recruits. Also providing recruiting resources to the staff to recruit on a nationwide basis.

Right.  Match the financial aid packages of Harvard, Yale, and Princeton.  Just like that.  No big deal.  Harvard's endowment in 2008 was $37 billion; Yale's, $23 billion; Princeton's, $16 billion (highest per student among Ivies); Cornell's, $5 billion.

How many billions are you signing up for, Ken, to close that gap?

[Ken711]

the University from the President to the admissions office has to provide the new staff with all the support and resources they require to finally build a championship program in football at Cornell!

We're lousy, but is there any indication the football program is denied needed resources by Cornell?  They seem to have excellent facilities.  Short of lowering admissions standards -- not an acceptable option -- what else should they be doing?

One thing is the ability to match the financial packaging being offered by other Ivy schools to attract top recruits. Also providing recruiting resources to the staff to recruit on a nationwide basis.

Right.  Match the financial aid packages of Harvard, Yale, and Princeton.  Just like that.  No big deal.  Harvard's endowment in 2008 was $37 billion; Yale's, $23 billion; Princeton's, $16 billion (highest per student among Ivies); Cornell's, $5 billion.

How many billions are you signing up for, Ken, to close that gap?

Al, actually Cornell is trying to close the gap, however their new program was called into question by the HYP contingent. They will make have to continue making adjustments to level the playing field or the competitiveness the Ivy League will go out the window.

http://www.cornellsun.com/section/news/content/2010/01/19/under-ivy-league-pressure-cornell-scales-back-finaid-program-athlete

[Al DeFlorio]

Or you get a guy who wants to build the program and stay.  Surely not everyone is just going for the brass ring?

I agree.  Penn's Bagnoli has been there for 18 years.

Carm Cozza was at Yale seemingly forever and won more than his share of titles.

It was a different coaching world back then, and the Ivies were more "relevant."

Different in the 60s and 70s, perhaps, but the Ivies were no more "relevant" in the 80s and 90s, and that was half of Cozza's tenure at Yale.  Surely there's someone out there who knows how to coach winning football and doesn't want to deal with guns, rape, felonies, and players who wouldn't recognize a classroom should they ever stumble into one.

And how many Ivy coaches in this "less-relevant" Ivy era have moved on to big-time head-coaching positions?  "Back then" Blackman did (and he was brilliant at Dartmouth), but soon returned...chastened.

Al, is it possible that - all other things being equal - players respond better to a coach who's in his 30s or 40s than 60s?

That question could start a discussion as tiresome as the one going on in the "useless statistics" thread.::wank::

[Al DeFlorio]

the University from the President to the admissions office has to provide the new staff with all the support and resources they require to finally build a championship program in football at Cornell!

We're lousy, but is there any indication the football program is denied needed resources by Cornell?  They seem to have excellent facilities.  Short of lowering admissions standards -- not an acceptable option -- what else should they be doing?

One thing is the ability to match the financial packaging being offered by other Ivy schools to attract top recruits. Also providing recruiting resources to the staff to recruit on a nationwide basis.

Right.  Match the financial aid packages of Harvard, Yale, and Princeton.  Just like that.  No big deal.  Harvard's endowment in 2008 was $37 billion; Yale's, $23 billion; Princeton's, $16 billion (highest per student among Ivies); Cornell's, $5 billion.

How many billions are you signing up for, Ken, to close that gap?

Al, actually Cornell is trying to close the gap, however their new program was called into question by the HYP contingent. They will make have to continue making adjustments to level the playing field or the competitiveness the Ivy League will go out the window.

http://www.cornellsun.com/section/news/content/2010/01/19/under-ivy-league-pressure-cornell-scales-back-finaid-program-athlete

If, as the piece you linked seems to indicate, the "new program" was going to give preferential aid to athletes, it should have been called into question.  I don't like it one bit.  In any case, if H, Y, and P were to target enhanced aid to athletes, we'd really be lunchmeat.  Braindead idea.

[phillysportsfan]

What does an Ivy Championship in football rate--and the way things are now that is the absolute highest honor they can hope for even in the best of circumstances--compared to all the other things those people could be spending their time, money, and energy on?

What it comes down to for Cornell is, if I spend $X on winning an Ivy championship, will I get back $X+1 in additional giving because alums are happy (or because the next Ed Marinaro class of '15 gives his NFL signing bonus to the Hotel school.


A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?

You wouldn't believe.

Which car company do you work for?

A major one.

Yeah that is definitely one of the best quotes from Fight Club.

[dbilmes]

Are there really people out there who would adjust their giving based on the success of the football team?  (Other than, perhaps, football alumni who matriculate in these hypothetical boom times and had a better time on campus because they weren't deeply demoralized every Saturday?)

Lauren's on the right track here. We should just drop football. It's got to be costing much more money than it's bringing in, even if we don't give athletic scholarships. Most of the students could care less (with the exception of the players, of course). Based on decades of mediocrity, it's hard to see the program being turned around in a short time span. Yes, I know the basketball team did that, but you don't need to find as many good players as you do to turn a football program around. There would certainly be a huge outcry from some alumni, but I'd rather see the resources we waste on football being used somewhere else, such as being used to improve sports that we can be competitive in. And yes, we have other sports teams which have also done poorly for a long time (i.e. men's soccer). But they don't cost as much money as the football program. We can always schedule Homecoming Weekend for a big field hockey game instead of a football game!

[Trotsky]

If, as the piece you linked seems to indicate, the "new program" was going to give preferential aid to athletes, it should have been called into question.

We'd have to know how the program worked in detail.  There's certainly targeting of athletes for preferential admission (anything that gets a weighted factor in the admission process, from music to high school yearbook, is "targeted" ), but I'm not aware of any targeted aid (other than this program) other than EFC.  Isn't that what "no athletic scholarships" means?