Grillo Out at Brown

[Jerseygirl]

While I think it would be awesome to have a major men's sport at a major college coached by a woman, part of me really hopes she doesn't get the job, simply because it would make me incredibly sad and angry to see the inevitable sexism rear its ugly head at my alma mater as people come up with "clever" taunts that revolve around Brown being coached by a woman. I'd like to think we're better than that, but I'm also realistic.

[Rosey]

[quote Jerseygirl]it would make me incredibly sad and angry to see the inevitable sexism rear its ugly head at my alma mater as people come up with "clever" taunts that revolve around Brown being coached by a woman. I'd like to think we're better than that, but I'm also realistic.[/quote]
Women are tougher than you seem to think: don't be such a girl. ;-)

On a realistic note, if I were the Brown AD, I'd be at least slightly concerned that a female coach might not truly appreciate the finer points of the men's game where it differs from the women's, notably hitting, and how those differences figure into strategy.  As someone who's seen a lot of both, the men's and women's games are very, very different.

[Jerseygirl]

[quote Kyle Rose][quote Jerseygirl]it would make me incredibly sad and angry to see the inevitable sexism rear its ugly head at my alma mater as people come up with "clever" taunts that revolve around Brown being coached by a woman. I'd like to think we're better than that, but I'm also realistic.[/quote]
Women are tougher than you seem to think: don't be such a girl. ;-)

On a realistic note, if I were the Brown AD, I'd be at least slightly concerned that a female coach might not truly appreciate the finer points of the men's game where it differs from the women's, notably hitting, and how those differences figure into strategy.  As someone who's seen a lot of both, the men's and women's games are very, very different.[/quote]

Oh, it's not that I'm concerned her widdle feelings would be hurt, I just don't want my school pride to be replaced by anger at sexist assholes.

I also wonder how having a female coach would impact recruiting. YMMV, but from my experiences hanging out at 109 Catherine, it was not exactly a bastion of liberalism and open-mindedness.

[billhoward]

Recruiting couild be the big issue. Not every 17-year-old hockey player, or his parents, may want to be part of a great experiment.

It might get Howard Stern's mind off Vivian Stringer and Rutgers for a couple of morning shows.

Twenty-five years ago, who'd have thought Brown would have a black woman as president. Or us a black man as President?

[Al DeFlorio]

[quote Kyle Rose]
On a realistic note, if I were the Brown AD, I'd be at least slightly concerned that a female coach might not truly appreciate the finer points of the men's game where it differs from the women's, notably hitting, and how those differences figure into strategy.  As someone who's seen a lot of both, the men's and women's games are very, very different.[/quote]
So I guess no man could ever be successful as coach of a women's team.

[Rosey]

[quote Al DeFlorio]So I guess no man could ever be successful as coach of a women's team.[/quote]
I think your logic is somewhat flawed in an attempt to score a point against me.  Let me spell it out for you: I believe it likely that at some point in the future coaching in women's hockey will be dominated by former women players, at which point men may simply have a hard time competing because they played a different game and don't understand how to coach a finesse game without hitting.  (Or, lacking a vagina, understand how to relate to female players and their concerns on a personal level.  Take your pick.)  *shrug*  I'm making no moral judgment about this one way or the other, but simply hypothesizing about what might be necessary prior experience for a good coach.

[RichH]

[quote Al DeFlorio][quote Kyle Rose]
On a realistic note, if I were the Brown AD, I'd be at least slightly concerned that a female coach might not truly appreciate the finer points of the men's game where it differs from the women's, notably hitting, and how those differences figure into strategy.  As someone who's seen a lot of both, the men's and women's games are very, very different.[/quote]
So I guess no man could ever be successful as coach of a women's team.[/quote]

This ties in to a conversation I had with several UConn basketball fans about Geno Auriemma's career.  Not only is Geno accepted as a male coach of a female team, but he's widely revered around these parts (There's a sign in a storefront on my ride to work that says "Geno is God").  I asked the question if someone with the knowledge and coaching excellence that someone like Pat Summitt possesses would ever get a chance to coach a Men's college team, and the general consensus was "no."  I still struggle with trying to figure out why that is today, but unfortunately I think a lot of it comes down to issues that Jerseygirl touched on.  

Yeah, it's a different sport, but there are some similar angles to the discussion.

[Lauren '06]

After the bio ugarte posted, I was going to ask what would prompt her to go from a successful women's program to a famously futile men's program--and what the gender-relational implications of that are--but it looks like the past few seasons haven't been so hot for the women's team either.  More of a lateral move than I would have thought.

[ursusminor]

For whatever reason, Digit Murphy has not been particularly successful in recent years coaching the Brown women's team. Since the ECAC has become a 12-team league paralleling the men's league and western traditional men's hockey powers have upgraded their women's programs, Brown's women's team has become quite similar to their men's program. Thanks to Union's women trailing the league, Brown has not been at the bottom, but it has been several years since they made the playoffs. How does this warrant what might be considered a promotion?

[Rita]

Also a factor in the downswing of the Brown Women's Ice hockey program is the upswing in the programs out west. In the early to mid 90's if a girl wanted to play ice hockey in college she had to go east. Now with Wisconsin, UMinn-TC and UMinn-Duluth having very competitive programs and an NC$$ tournament (before the Women's Collegiate Hockey championship was sponsored by USA Hockey), girls today have many more options, even at the DIII level.

[Robb]

[quote Rita]Also a factor in the downswing of the Brown Women's Ice hockey program is the upswing in the programs out west. In the early to mid 90's if a girl wanted to play ice hockey in college she had to go east. Now with Wisconsin, UMinn-TC and UMinn-Duluth having very competitive programs and an NC$$ tournament (before the Women's Collegiate Hockey championship was sponsored by USA Hockey), girls today have many more options, even at the DIII level.[/quote]I was pondering how this could lead to Brown's decline relative to other ECAC teams.  I suppose that if the Western teams are siphoning off the cream of the crop, then the Eastern teams should be left in a state of greater parity, as they'd be drawing their players more from the center of the talent bell curve.  I suppose in that situation, then very little things would start making the difference between the eastern teams - facilities, location, admissions, etc.  I'm not remotely knowledgeable enough to speculate about which of these factors may be affecting Brown, though.

[jtwcornell91]

[quote RichH][quote Al DeFlorio][quote Kyle Rose]
On a realistic note, if I were the Brown AD, I'd be at least slightly concerned that a female coach might not truly appreciate the finer points of the men's game where it differs from the women's, notably hitting, and how those differences figure into strategy.  As someone who's seen a lot of both, the men's and women's games are very, very different.[/quote]
So I guess no man could ever be successful as coach of a women's team.[/quote]

This ties in to a conversation I had with several UConn basketball fans about Geno Auriemma's career.  Not only is Geno accepted as a male coach of a female team, but he's widely revered around these parts (There's a sign in a storefront on my ride to work that says "Geno is God").  I asked the question if someone with the knowledge and coaching excellence that someone like Pat Summitt possesses would ever get a chance to coach a Men's college team, and the general consensus was "no."  I still struggle with trying to figure out why that is today, but unfortunately I think a lot of it comes down to issues that Jerseygirl touched on.  

Yeah, it's a different sport, but there are some similar angles to the discussion.[/quote]

Actually, you'd think it would be more likely to happen in basketball than hockey, since women's hoops has been around longer and has a much higher profile than women's hockey.

[nyc94]

Former Brown defenseman Brendan Whittet will be the new coach at Brown.  He has spent the last 11 years as an assistant at Dartmouth.

http://www.uscho.com/news/college-hockey/id,17136/WhittettheNewTopBear.html

[Josh '99]

[quote nyc94]Former Brown defenseman Brendan Whittet will be the new coach at Brown.  He has spent the last 11 years as an assistant at Dartmouth.

http://www.uscho.com/news/college-hockey/id,17136/WhittettheNewTopBear.html[/quote]So Grillo-Gaudet hacking will continue to be the order of business at Brown?  That's a shame.

[billhoward]

>>> [USCHO] In 83 seasons of men's ice hockey spanning 113 years, Brown has never won an ECAC Hockey regular-season or tournament title, nor a national championship, and hasn't qualified for the NCAA tournament since Gaudet's fifth season, 15 years ago.

Not quite like stepping into Joe Paterno's shoes.

But so long as they don't beat us with any regularity, it can only help the Ivies and ECAC if there are no pushovers.