CU @ Duke lax

[Josh '99]

[quote JasonN95][H]aving to always play at Duke makes Cornell look second tier.[/quote]I don't buy it.  I just can't picture a recruit weighing that against the wide variety of evidence that Cornell is a top-tier program:

- Won or shared the Ivy title six years in a row
- Played in the Final Four recently
- Had recent winners of the McLaughlin (Boulukos), Schmeisser (Belisle), and Kelly (McMonagle) Awards
- Have players on the Tewaaraton Watch List every year; had two finalists last year (Glynn, Seibald)
- Tambroni was National Coach of the Year in 2007

... and still conclude that Cornell is second-tier because they play regular road games at Duke.

[Al DeFlorio]

[quote peterg]There are benefits, other than just an SOS boost, from these mid-week games far from Ithaca during spring break.  It's an opportunity to take the team on the road to a good weather site, getting a LOT of outdoor practice time, getting a big time game in, AND doing some team building during the trips down and back and when they're all together without other distractions.  Add that it usually happens just before the start of the IVY season.  Coach Tambroni is VERY big on the idea of the "team" concept and from what I understand, these trips have always been valuable in that regard as well.[/quote]
All true.  

Tambroni made this very clear in a Sun or Journal article before the team headed south.  This has happened on and off since I was in school in the early and mid 60s.  Back then, it was usually a disaster playing a Maryland or the like (1963 scores:  Maryland 17, Cornell 10; Baltimore 9, Cornell 1).  The team usually opened the season with a game or two in the south, taking a week of warmer weather for essentially an extended spring practice.

Interesting to note that the first game in the 1962 season was April 14.  This year on that date we'll have just three regular season games left to play.

[Jim Hyla]

[quote Al DeFlorio][quote peterg]There are benefits, other than just an SOS boost, from these mid-week games far from Ithaca during spring break.  It's an opportunity to take the team on the road to a good weather site, getting a LOT of outdoor practice time, getting a big time game in, AND doing some team building during the trips down and back and when they're all together without other distractions.  Add that it usually happens just before the start of the IVY season.  Coach Tambroni is VERY big on the idea of the "team" concept and from what I understand, these trips have always been valuable in that regard as well.[/quote]
All true.  

Tambroni made this very clear in a Sun or Journal article before the team headed south.  This has happened on and off since I was in school in the early and mid 60s.  Back then, it was usually a disaster playing a Maryland or the like (1963 scores:  Maryland 17, Cornell 10; Baltimore 9, Cornell 1).  The team usually opened the season with a game or two in the south, taking a week of warmer weather for essentially an extended spring practice.

Interesting to note that the first game in the 1962 season was April 14.  This year on that date we'll have just three regular season games left to play.[/quote]It was the IJ, and based upon how much he and the team feels it helps, we will probably be doing it for some time.

[Al DeFlorio]

The ACCSelect videocast is now available for viewing by anyone who subscribed.  Video quality is much better than on the live webcast, but there's still danger of being put quickly to sleep by the announcer.

[JasonN95]

[quote peterg]There are benefits, other than just an SOS boost, from these mid-week games far from Ithaca during spring break.  It's an opportunity to take the team on the road to a good weather site, getting a LOT of outdoor practice time, getting a big time game in, AND doing some team building during the trips down and back and when they're all together without other distractions.  Add that it usually happens just before the start of the IVY season.  Coach Tambroni is VERY big on the idea of the "team" concept and from what I understand, these trips have always been valuable in that regard as well.[/quote]

That however can be achieved by having an alternating schedule arrangement with two southern teams, say a home game vs Virginia the season they are on the road at Duke, then flip.  But I'm very willing to concede that I'm not being fully rational/objective about this. It still rubs me wrong that Duke (the institution) was given a do-over by the NCAA and a chance to get a national title was handed to them on a silver platter --I was fine with giving players back lost eligibility time, but that should have been only if they used it at a different school. And I feel like Duke is going to slip back to rear of the ACC --just my gut feeling. So I feel like the Cornell program's hard work deserves better treatment, especially from the likes of Duke. Just a crazy raw nerve for me. ::crazy::

[mnagowski]

It still rubs me wrong that Duke (the institution) was given a do-over by the NCAA and a chance to get a national title was handed to them on a silver platter --I was fine with giving players back lost eligibility time, but that should have been only if they used it at a different school.

Thankfully, though, they will never have to worry about an asterisk after their name, as they never ended up winning it all.

[TimV]

[quote mnagowski] Thankfully, though, they will never have to worry about an asterisk after their name, as they never ended up winning it all.[/quote]

So Far.  They still have some fifth years on the roster.:-(

[Rosey]

[quote JasonN95]I was fine with giving players back lost eligibility time, but that should have been only if they used it at a different school.[/quote]
I'm not quite sure what to think in this case: the players were clearly railroaded by the "justice" system, so in that sense I think the NCAA did the right thing; but OTOH it's not clear the Duke administration had to unilaterally declare their season over and throw the players under the bus under the assumption that the accusations were true.

Specifically, I'm all for helping the players who were wronged by Mike Nifong (who is now bankrupt and will likely be working for the wronged Duke players for the rest of his life), but I'm not sure Duke should be rewarded for their part in this situation.

Honestly, I don't know why any Duke player would want to play for that school again.  If I were one of them, I would spend the rest of my life doing what I could to make Duke pay for their support of unsubstantiated accusations against members of the Duke community.

[KeithK]

[quote Kyle Rose]Honestly, I don't know why any Duke player would want to play for that school again.  If I were one of them, I would spend the rest of my life doing what I could to make Duke pay for their support of unsubstantiated accusations against members of the Duke community.[/quote]
I'm sure the players bear some ill will towards the Duke administration and the faculty.  I certainly would.  But they may still love love their school anyway.  There's a lot more to the college experience.  And they probably have strong bonds to the teammates who they went through this with. Lots of reasons why the kids would want to stay even if there are plenty of reasons why they'd want to go.

[Robb]

[quote KeithK][quote Kyle Rose]Honestly, I don't know why any Duke player would want to play for that school again.  If I were one of them, I would spend the rest of my life doing what I could to make Duke pay for their support of unsubstantiated accusations against members of the Duke community.[/quote]
I'm sure the players bear some ill will towards the Duke administration and the faculty.  I certainly would.  But they may still love love their school anyway.  There's a lot more to the college experience.  And they probably have strong bonds to the teammates who they went through this with. Lots of reasons why the kids would want to stay even if there are plenty of reasons why they'd want to go.[/quote]
Yep - 16 years ago, Cornell cut my sport right before my senior year, saying that even if we came up with private/endowed funding for the team, they still wouldn't sponsor us as a varsity sport.  And yet, here I am, posting on the Cornell hockey message board...

[Rosey]

[quote Robb]Yep - 16 years ago, Cornell cut my sport right before my senior year, saying that even if we came up with private/endowed funding for the team, they still wouldn't sponsor us as a varsity sport.  And yet, here I am, posting on the Cornell hockey message board...[/quote]
Is self-funding compatible with Title IX?  If not, then your antipathy is probably best directed at the government rather than Cornell, anyway.  I honestly don't know.

[Robb]

[quote Kyle Rose][quote Robb]Yep - 16 years ago, Cornell cut my sport right before my senior year, saying that even if we came up with private/endowed funding for the team, they still wouldn't sponsor us as a varsity sport.  And yet, here I am, posting on the Cornell hockey message board...[/quote]
Is self-funding compatible with Title IX?  If not, then your antipathy is probably best directed at the government rather than Cornell, anyway.  I honestly don't know.[/quote]
They didn't cut the men's team in order to comply with Title IX - it was purely a cost-saving move.  They re-instated the women's team (without private funding) in order to avoid any Title IX controversey (the women were considering a lawsuit).

[KeithK]

[quote Robb][quote Kyle Rose][quote Robb]Yep - 16 years ago, Cornell cut my sport right before my senior year, saying that even if we came up with private/endowed funding for the team, they still wouldn't sponsor us as a varsity sport.  And yet, here I am, posting on the Cornell hockey message board...[/quote]
Is self-funding compatible with Title IX?  If not, then your antipathy is probably best directed at the government rather than Cornell, anyway.  I honestly don't know.[/quote]
They didn't cut the men's team in order to comply with Title IX - it was purely a cost-saving move.  They re-instated the women's team (without private funding) in order to avoid any Title IX controversey (the women were considering a lawsuit).[/quote]
Reinstating the women's team while still canceling the men's team in the same sport should itself be a Title IX violation if what we cared about really was gender equity.

(Spare me the righteous arguments about football and wrestling.)

[ugarte]

[quote KeithK](Spare me the righteous arguments about football and wrestling.)[/quote]
OK. We won't discuss the relevant arguments. Continue as you were.

[Lowell '99]

Completely agree with Kyle.  The Duke administration clearly and obviously blew it, and that was true even before the case ended.