Polls 1/19

[ebilmes]

We move up to #3 in USCHO with five first place votes, jumping over Denver and Northeastern. http://www.uscho.com/rankings/

USA Today poll not out yet, but it will be here: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/hockey/usatmen.htm

Edit: See redliner's post below. We also moved up two spots to #5.

As pointed out in another thread, we move up one spot to #2 in the INCH Power Rankings: http://insidecollegehockey.com/5Polls/0809/polls_0717.htm

Of course, all these rankings are meaningless.

[Chris 02]

[quote ebilmes]
Of course, all these rankings are meaningless.[/quote]

From the perspective of NCAA seeding, yes.  But from the perspective of potential recruiting, alumni donations, etc. it can make some difference.

[KeithK]

[quote Chris 02][quote ebilmes]
Of course, all these rankings are meaningless.[/quote]

From the perspective of NCAA seeding, yes.  But from the perspective of potential recruiting, alumni donations, etc. it can make some difference.[/quote]
I encourage everyone to put the label "Obligatory Disclaimer" in front of all "the polls are meaningless" statements so we dont' waste bandwidth discussing their merit again and again.*

* Meta discussions about the desirability of discussing the relative value of polls are a totally different story.

[redliner]

USA Today/USA Hockey Magazine Men's College Hockey Poll is out. Cornell receives 6 first place votes and moves up to 3rd place.

1 University of Notre Dame, 496 (22) 1 19-3-3 15
2 Boston University, 464 (6) 2 16-5-1 15
3 Cornell University, 434 (6) 5 13-1-3 9
4 University of Denver, 394 4 15-6-2 15
5 Northeastern University, 386 3 15-5-2 12
6 University of Minnesota, 336 8 12-5-5 15
7 University of Vermont, 304 7 13-5-3 10
8 University of Michigan, 280 6 16-8-0 15
9 Princeton University, 222 10 13-5-0 14
10 Miami (Ohio) University, 188 9 13-8-3 15
11 The Ohio State University, 156 14 16-6-2 3
12 University of New Hampshire, 154 13 11-6-4 14
13 Colorado College, 132 11 13-8-5 15
14 Boston College, 46 12 9-8-3 15
15 University of North Dakota, 45 NR 14-10-2 6
Others receiving votes: University of Wisconsin, 17; University of Alaska, 9; University of Nebraska Omaha, 9; U.S. Air Force Academy, 2; Michigan State University, 2; Quinnipiac University, 2; Yale University, 2.

http://www.dailygazette.com/weblogs/schott/2009/jan/19/monday-college-hockey-slap-schotts-volume-9/

[ftyuv]

[quote redliner]USA Today/USA Hockey Magazine Men's College Hockey Poll is out. Cornell receives 6 first place votes and moves up to 3rd place.[/quote]Meaningless.

[redliner]

[quote ftyuv][quote redliner]USA Today/USA Hockey Magazine Men's College Hockey Poll is out. Cornell receives 6 first place votes and moves up to 3rd place.[/quote]Meaningless.[/quote]

truthiness

[billhoward]

For recruiting, our high standing can't hurt. Just as the crazy atmosphere at Lynah can't hurt. But: At Ivy schools, alumni donations are not affected (statistically significantly) by a winning or losing team. You could also argue the opposite: Alumni donations lead to winning teams. The wrestling program was good. Alumni donations got is an awesome wrestling center (without a WASP name no less) and support for the program. And now it's - can this really be true? - ranked No. 2 in the country.

Speaking for myself and a few other alumns, I think we're trying to survive 2009. Making the Frozen Four won't losen pocketbooks sewn shut by the crappy economy.

[Beeeej]

[quote billhoward]But: At Ivy schools, alumni donations are not affected (statistically significantly) by a winning or losing team.[/quote]

What's your source for that assertion, Bill?

Although correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation, I've seen a fair amount of evidence that the opposite of what you say is true.

[Jim Hyla]

[quote Beeeej][quote billhoward]But: At Ivy schools, alumni donations are not affected (statistically significantly) by a winning or losing team.[/quote]

What's your source for that assertion, Bill?

Although correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation, I've seen a fair amount of evidence that the opposite of what you say is true.[/quote]Beeeej,
That article is hardly evidence. The stats quoted leave a lot to be desired. I think one bit of evidence to support Bill's contention is how much that is donated to Ivy schools compared to many of the big time athletic schools. And many of those donations are directly to the athletic program.  I know that this is not proof, but I've always thought Ivy alumni donate more to the whole U, not just sports. No data however.

[Beeeej]

[quote Jim Hyla][quote Beeeej][quote billhoward]But: At Ivy schools, alumni donations are not affected (statistically significantly) by a winning or losing team.[/quote]

What's your source for that assertion, Bill?

Although correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation, I've seen a fair amount of evidence that the opposite of what you say is true.[/quote]Beeeej,
That article is hardly evidence. The stats quoted leave a lot to be desired. I think one bit of evidence to support Bill's contention is how much that is donated to Ivy schools compared to many of the big time athletic schools. And many of those donations are directly to the athletic program.  I know that this is not proof, but I've always thought Ivy alumni donate more to the whole U, not just sports. No data however.[/quote]

That article is not the only evidence I've seen, it was just the easiest to locate on short notice.  Remember, my previous career was as a professional fundraiser, the last two years of which was specifically for athletics programs.  It was my business to know a lot of this stuff.  Like I said, correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation, but even if these stats don't "prove" anything, they certainly seem to disagree with what Bill said.

"I think one bit of evidence to support Bill's contention is how much that is donated to Ivy schools compared to many of the big time athletic schools. And many of those donations are directly to the athletic program."

I honest to God haven't the faintest idea what you're trying to say here.  Please clarify, if you can.

[sah67]

Yawn...another goalie of the week nod for Scrivens:

http://ecachockey.com/men/2008-09/weekly_releases/Weekly_Awards/20091901_M_Wkly_Awards

[Jim Hyla]

[quote Beeeej][quote Jim Hyla]
"I think one bit of evidence to support Bill's contention is how much that is donated to Ivy schools compared to many of the big time athletic schools. And many of those donations are directly to the athletic program."[/quote]

I honest to God haven't the faintest idea what you're trying to say here.  Please clarify, if you can.[/quote]

Yeah, that was pretty jumbled. Too many thoughts together. Basically, Ivy schools get some of the highest donation amounts compared to other universities. Many of the donations to big time athletic programs go directly to the athletic department, thus not helping the whole university. I don't know, but I doubt that is as true in the Ivy schools. While that doesn't say athletics doesn't matter, I think it has less importance in Ivy schools. Not proof, just a thought along Bill's line.

[Robb]

[quote Jim Hyla][quote Beeeej][quote Jim Hyla]
"I think one bit of evidence to support Bill's contention is how much that is donated to Ivy schools compared to many of the big time athletic schools. And many of those donations are directly to the athletic program."[/quote]

I honest to God haven't the faintest idea what you're trying to say here.  Please clarify, if you can.[/quote]

Yeah, that was pretty jumbled. Too many thoughts together. Basically, Ivy schools get some of the highest donation amounts compared to other universities. Many of the donations to big time athletic programs go directly to the athletic department, thus not helping the whole university. I don't know, but I doubt that is as true in the Ivy schools. While that doesn't say athletics doesn't matter, I think it has less importance in Ivy schools. Not proof, just a thought along Bill's line.[/quote]Also, the Ivy donation totals are somewhat inflated by donations from people/groups/institutions other than alums.  I would assume that THOSE donations would be unaffected by athletic success; the only donations that I would think athletic success could affect would be direct giving by alums, so you'd want to limit any studies on the matter to those types of gifts.

I suspect that the data would be somewhat difficult to process, anyway - I mean, if one guy gives a school $100M to build one hockey rink, what correlations can you draw from that?

[jtwcornell91]

[quote Robb]if one guy gives a school $100M to build one hockey rink and make Hitler's birthday a school holiday, what correlations can you draw from that?[/quote]

FYP :-P

[TimV]

Why do hockey photos like this always make the guys look like they just took their helmets off - even when they have a shirt and tie on?  It's like they photoshopped an in-game head photo on a boilerplate body.

And reminds me of the hair product commercial with the tagline "If these guys can't pick up girls, what chance do you have?"**]