Goodbye Alumni Fields...

[Tom Tone]

Hello new field hockey stadium?!

http://www.cornellbigred.com/News/fhockey/2008/7/2/FieldHockeyField08.asp?path=fhockey

I have a strange feeling this will just be leftover parts from Schoellkopf.

[Josh '99]

[quote Tom Tone]Hello new field hockey stadium?!

http://www.cornellbigred.com/News/fhockey/2008/7/2/FieldHockeyField08.asp?path=fhockey

I have a strange feeling this will just be leftover parts from Schoellkopf.[/quote]You make the call, ELF posters:  More, or less, of a waste of money and space than the new wrestling facility?

[Jordan 04]

Can you really call something that holds 300 people a "stadium"?

[Ben Rocky '04]

[quote Josh '99]You make the call, ELF posters:  More, or less, of a waste of money and space than the new wrestling facility?[/quote]

Which team would you rather look at?

[RichH]

[quote Josh '99]You make the call, ELF posters:  More, or less, of a waste of money and space than the new wrestling facility?[/quote]

Hm.  What I gleaned from the article is that the changeover to FieldTurf on Schoellkopf makes that field not appropriate for the speedy surface needed/preferred in Field Hockey, and astroturf is the standard.  Other schools have done the exact same thing when converting to FieldTurf:

http://media.www.kentnewsnet.com/media/storage/paper867/news/2005/05/06/Sports/New-Turf-1517244.shtml
http://thedartmouth.com/2007/03/30/sports/dcad/

[quote The Dartmouth]The additional resources...allows for the construction of a separate field with AstroTurf, an almost essential surface for college field hockey.

...it is extremely difficult for field hockey teams to practice and play on anything but AstroTurf, where the ball can move swiftly and evenly at all times.

Harper originally believed it would be a crushing blow to the field hockey program, which endured some tough times during the fall 2006 season, if Scully-Fahey did not contain an AstroTurf surface.

"It would be extremely detrimental and could even be the demise of the program. There was nowhere to shuttle them around. I'm afraid that we wouldn't get teams to come play us and they might have to play away," she said.[/quote]

So it sounds like a necessary addition.  The wrestling team had adequate facilities with Newman Arena.

[Josh '99]

[quote Ben Rocky '04][quote Josh '99]You make the call, ELF posters:  More, or less, of a waste of money and space than the new wrestling facility?[/quote]

Which team would you rather look at?[/quote]That's a false framing of the issue.  I could've looked at either team just as easily at their previous facilities.

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

Two words:  Title IX.

[BCrespi]

[quote Josh '99][quote Tom Tone]Hello new field hockey stadium?!

http://www.cornellbigred.com/News/fhockey/2008/7/2/FieldHockeyField08.asp?path=fhockey

I have a strange feeling this will just be leftover parts from Schoellkopf.[/quote]You make the call, ELF posters:  More, or less, of a waste of money and space than the new wrestling facility?[/quote]

While I hate to see natural grass and practice space converted to turf anywhere, it does seem this was a necessary move if field turf was to become a reality at Schoellkopf.  Ask any member of the football/sprint, or either lacrosse team what it was like to play/practice on Schoellkopf after field hockey hosed down the already awful turf and you know they're all thrilled to see a designated field hockey "stadium".

[Jim Hyla]

[quote RichH]The wrestling team had adequate facilities with Newman Arena.[/quote]

Adequate is the functional word. Lynah was adequate before it's renovation, however if you want to stay up with the rest (say nothing about adding seats) then it was worth it. Considering that wrestling is one of our most impressive NCAA teams, and that it was privately funded, I'd say it was well worth it. I only wish they had connected it to the field house/weight room. It would have been nice to walk over sometimes.

[RichH]

[quote Jim Hyla]Adequate is the functional word. [/quote]

Agreed.  It's also a subjective word.  

OK, you mention Lynah renovation.  I recall at least one person on this board calling for a North Dakota-like hockey palace to be built out by the equestrian center.  Thank goodness that didn't happen.  The Lynah renovation, compared to the new wrestling facility, is conservative, and only gobbled up a small parking lot.  It upgraded the locker rooms, coaching offices, and training areas so they would be on par with many similar programs while keeping the adequate playing surface adequate.

In contrast, the wrestling center replaced a facility that was a little over 10 years old.  A facility that was well designed to house multiple athletic teams.  A facility that was already on par with many other leading programs.

As far as funding, I'm very happy it was done with private money.  Terrific that the university didn't have to open up the checkbook at all.  The valuable land it sits on, however, was not donated privately.  That space could have been used for something much more useful to a much larger portion of the university community.  (Some ideas: a tennis bubble, a swimming & diving facility that would replace the INadequate facilities that exist on campus...)

Jim uses the phrase "if you want to stay up with the rest..."  Friedman was, and remains 6 years after its opening, the nation's only arena solely for wresting.  This wasn't about keeping up with your competition.  This was about blasting them out of the water.  Newman arena was a modern, impressive, and capable wrestling facility as it was.

You say that wrestling is one of our most impressive NCAA teams.  I can't argue with that, and I'm proud of that fact and their accomplishments.  But is that reason enough to reward them with a palace when they had excellent facilities already?  Why should the swimming and diving teams continue to suffer?  The Teagle Hall pool may be adequate for 1950s competition.  It isn't even modern dimensions.  These are student athletes too, and this argument sends a message that we value winning and intercollegiate success over taking care of the needs of all student-athletes at Cornell.

[CowbellGuy]

[quote Jeff Hopkins '82]Two words:  Title IX.[/quote]
That's more like a word and some letters. Or maybe a word and a number of sorts.

[Jim Hyla]

I'm always amazed at how some discussion goes. We start out asking if upgrading, maybe essential upgrading, a minor sport like field hockey is more wasteful and then complain about a beautiful wrestling upgrade, and end up wondering why another minor sport like swimming didn't get the money.

Frankly, I'm happy whenever the U is able to upgrade a facility, assuming it's done in a way fitting with the rest of the U. You may argue that the money for wrestling would have been better spent on another sport, but that was not going to happen. What was done seems to have had a major positive effect upon the program. I wonder if some of our negatives about wrestling are spill overs from feelings about the AD. I'd hope those feelings could be kept separate, and we could really enjoy how impressive their performance has been. Anytime we can knock heads with the big boys, and be successful, we should rejoice.

Finally, I'm of the opinion that what helps one program, eventually helps all programs. The more we can get the Cornell name out, and the more it's recognized by high school students for athletics and academics, the easier it will be to get that student-athlete in that minor sport.

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

[quote CowbellGuy][quote Jeff Hopkins '82]Two words:  Title IX.[/quote]
That's more like a word and some letters. Or maybe a word and a number of sorts.[/quote]

Yeah, but when I wrote it "Title Nine" it just looked wrong.    

Instead of it simply being wrong  ::whistle::

[RichH]

[quote Jim Hyla]I wonder if some of our negatives about wrestling are spill overs from feelings about the AD. I'd hope those feelings could be kept separate, and we could really enjoy how impressive their performance has been. [/quote]

An excellent point, Jim.  While you didn't directly accuse me of basing my argument on it, it's no secret what my feelings are about our AD.  That said, I can assure you that my argument here was completely separate of any emotional personal issues I have with any individual.  My feelings would be identical if there were a state-of-the-art hockey or lacrosse facility constructed on (what's left of) Alumni Fields.  I only answered Josh's question of this thread.  I believe Friedman was a more unnecessary addition than the coming Field Hockey facility.  That's all.

And don't accuse me of not supporting the wrestling team or failing to celebrate their successes.  Nothing I said was negative about the wrestling program itself.  I'll say it again: I'm excited about where that program is, and am thrilled that they represent my university so well.

[Jerseygirl]

If I recall, wasn't Stephen Friedman a prominent wrestler at Cornell who then went on to have lots o' money, some of which he donated to have the Friedman [Wrestling] Center built? If so, it's not like Cornell Athletics would have been able to use the money that gave us the Friedman Center to build the Friedman Natatorium. Wasn't the Friedman Center a "you should build this with my money" gift and not a "we're going to build this, and we'd like your money in order to do so" gift?

When I start bestowing endowments after I have amassed my fortune, I'm absolutely going to couple demands that are insane enough to be prominent with donations that are too large to turn down -- such as a mosaic of a Big Red mermaid at the bottom of the swimming pool in the Jerseygirl Natatorium. Just saying.