Guest Editorial in Today's Sun

[KenP]

[quote Jordan 04]It's simply more fun for fans to make a road trip devoted to hockey when they are confident they will watch a victorious weekend, instead of wondering if they're going to put up a couple stinkers.[/quote]Isn't that the definition of a bandwagon?

[mnagowski]

[quote KenP][quote Jordan 04]It's simply more fun for fans to make a road trip devoted to hockey when they are confident they will watch a victorious weekend, instead of wondering if they're going to put up a couple stinkers.[/quote]Isn't that the definition of a bandwagon?[/quote]

Yeah, aren't the Lynah Faithful... Faithful... through thick and through thin?

[RichH]

[quote ebilmes]If you're driving on the highway, say under the speed limit, but a cop tails you for two hours straight, is that cool? I can live with not swearing, but I don't like having ushers sneak up on me to try to catch me, or stare at me during cheers for the same reason.[/quote]

Absolutely.  I've had the opportunity to observe a pre-game usher meeting, and the general message is "the students are all up to no good.  If you aren't catching them, you aren't doing your job."  A severe lack of trust exists on both sides.

[RichH]

[quote Jacob '06][quote Chris '03]It frustrates me that Noel's tenure will be remembered as a golden era for success on the field.[/quote]

And you don't think he has had anything to do with it being a golden era?[/quote]

Well, that's only if you let winning be the sole metric of that job's success.  I'm firmly in the camp of being against the "win at all costs" mentality, especially when it comes to collegiate athletics.  There's no doubt that good coaches and good facilities attract the most successful varsity student-athletes to this school.  To me the Athletics Department (and the Director of that department) exists to provide and ensure the health and maintanence of facilities, equipment, and staff for those students who chose to compete or participate in any athletic activity.  That includes intercollegiate athletics all the way down to intramural sports and individual wellness activities.

The major intercollegiate programs are the ones that are most visible to those of us far flung from Ithaca.  We've had some excellent coaches both arrive and depart Cornell over the past 10 years.  Desperately needed track, softball, and soccer facilities have come into being as well as a palace for wrestling (I think it was unnecessary, but that's my opinion).  Oh, and there's a new logo.  I think I remember hearing complaints that the swimming and diving facilities are in very poor shape compared to our peer institutions.  The marching and pep bands fall under the Athletic Department.  Overall, they get treated like crap (IMO), but usually get what they need financially (alumni donations fuel it, but the Athletics infrastructure makes it possible).

I'd like to hear from students who can comment on the state of the facilities, equipment, and staff availability for the students not on any varsity team.  It's that aspect of the athletics department which serves a much larger portion of the university community, yet gets no publicity.  Campus growth has seen the sacrifice and loss of open recreation space on both North and Central campuses.  New gym space on West looks impressive.

Personally, I think Andy is one of the biggest jerks to ever have stepped on East Hill.  Knowing what I know about him, I wanted him ridden out on a rail years ago.  Putting that aside, and looking at the results, I'd say he's done an adequate job.  I say that not looking at wins or championships, but at how the Athletic Department has served the overall university community.

[Tom Lento]

[quote RichH]I'd like to hear from students who can comment on the state of the facilities, equipment, and staff availability for the students not on any varsity team.  It's that aspect of the athletics department which serves a much larger portion of the university community, yet gets no publicity.  Campus growth has seen the sacrifice and loss of open recreation space on both North and Central campuses.  New gym space on West looks impressive.[/quote]

I'm pretty sure this is beyond the scope of the Athletics Department, although things may have changed since I was on the hill.

Most club sports, at least up until 2001 and (as far as I know) through today are funded by the SAFC. They are given almost no institutional support, and receive very little (if any) field space. Back when Cornell had a nationals-caliber ultimate team we practiced at Cass Park, bought our own jerseys, and played an average of 1 tournament in the Ithaca area (extending out to Geneva) every 2-3 years. None of those tournaments was ever played on campus, because we could never get permission to use the fields. In those days, we didn't even get permission to practice on the fields with the exception of a two-week stretch before Nationals in 2001 where we practiced at Jessup - and that was only allowed because IM was done for the year and they had 2 idle weeks before scheduled maintenance for the summer sports camps.

As far as I know, the current ultimate team is in the same situation today, although based on the warm-up suits they all had at sectionals they may be a little bit better funded (or they're traveling shorter distances). They also have some access to on-campus field space nowadays, so that's nice. Perhaps club hockey has a different history - after all, they require a facility - but I suspect that they scrounge(d) for ice time just like other club sports scrounge(d) for practice areas.

I don't know where intramural competition fits in terms of the university hierarchy - that may or may not be part of the department of athletics. It does seem like there are more facilities available on campus for club and individual non-varsity athletes, but that's an ever-changing situation which I suspect has more to do with the University development plan than anything the AD does.

[Jordan 04]

[quote KenP][quote Jordan 04]It's simply more fun for fans to make a road trip devoted to hockey when they are confident they will watch a victorious weekend, instead of wondering if they're going to put up a couple stinkers.[/quote]Isn't that the definition of a bandwagon?[/quote]

Yes, that's my point.

[mnagowski]

As far as I know, the current ultimate team is in the same situation today

Don't the current ultimate and rugby teams use the University provided fields over on East Hill Plaza? And doesn't the ultimate team use Barton during the winter?

That said, I don't know why they aren't allowed to be using the Jessup or Appel fields... they might always be reserved for intramurals these days.

[Jacob '06]

[quote mnagowski]

As far as I know, the current ultimate team is in the same situation today

Don't the current ultimate and rugby teams use the University provided fields over on East Hill Plaza? And doesn't the ultimate team use Barton during the winter?

That said, I don't know why they aren't allowed to be using the Jessup or Appel fields... they might always be reserved for intramurals these days.[/quote]

Jessup is a dedicated intramural field, and the intramural people are very stingy about letting other people use it.

[Tom Lento]

[quote mnagowski]

As far as I know, the current ultimate team is in the same situation today

Don't the current ultimate and rugby teams use the University provided fields over on East Hill Plaza? And doesn't the ultimate team use Barton during the winter?

That said, I don't know why they aren't allowed to be using the Jessup or Appel fields... they might always be reserved for intramurals these days.[/quote]

From what I understand, the team does have some field space nowadays. I don't know where, because I ran out of eligibility like 7 years ago and drifted away from the college team with my club commitments. Like I said, it seems like things have improved for club teams, but that probably has nothing to do with the AD.

I don't know what the deal is with Barton during the winter nowadays, but we used to have a friend of the team (or an injured player) apply for a job as the midnight manager at Barton just so we could get in there. That wasn't a case of institutional support so much as an opportunity that we seized as our only chance for winter practices. As an aside, practice at midnight in Barton blows. The lack of wind and knee-destroying surface were pretty serious drawbacks, but then again I suppose it was better than nothing. Still. Ugh. Even at age 19 that was brutal.

When I was an undergrad, Jessup was always strictly for IM use. I think the logic was that they needed to keep the fields in shape, which makes sense - sports like ultimate and rugby do a lot of damage over time (or on one rainy afternoon). If they allowed club teams to practice there the IM participants would almost never have a decent place to play.

[sen '08]

[quote Tom Lento] Perhaps club hockey has a different history - after all, they require a facility - but I suspect that they scrounge(d) for ice time just like other club sports scrounge(d) for practice areas.[/quote]

The women's club hockey team has had good luck getting funding from the SAFC in the past couple years.  Since we're able to tell them fairly accurately what our budget for ice times and traveling costs are, they're willing to give us what we need.

We've been able to have our ice times at Lynah for practices and games mostly paid for and our gas costs for traveling covered.

We even have had a decent practice time (8-9:15), not at an outrageous hour and can schedule game times at Lynah regularly.

[BMac]

Tom,

The Ultimate teams play behind Reis Tennis Center at fields paid for by the club Rugby teams, cause they have more money than we do. The field space is limited, meaning that we turned away over fifty players this year who wanted to play (and would have formed our C team). Regardless, we DO have field space on campus and have had it for the last 3 years. Prior to that, Shake played at Appel (now unplayable) and the Buds went to Cass.

We don't play at Appel because... have you been there lately? It's literally rock. The upper field is ok- the women's teams play there occasionally.

Over the winter, our A team had the floor of Barton between 11pm and midnight on tuesdays and thursdays. The B team had midnight-1am (and my professors wonder why I never made it to my 8:25 class on wednesday...) I believe Rugby had the same situation, but earlier in the day? Not sure. If you're counting, though, that's 2 hours of actual play per week. Plus the 10-odd hours of running practice, but who's counting? :-)

The warmups were bought at the annual athletics tag sale. They're soccer, and a few players got them. We still purchase all our own equipment, but we did get enough money to cover driving to all our tourneys this year.

In short, it's a pretty similar situation to what you're describing, but with field space near campus (I refuse to call East Hill Plaza on campus when the freshmen have to  take a huge long bus ride to get there).

Nardo
(Shake #7)

[Tom Lento]

[quote sen '08]The women's club hockey team has had good luck getting funding from the SAFC in the past couple years.  Since we're able to tell them fairly accurately what our budget for ice times and traveling costs are, they're willing to give us what we need.

We've been able to have our ice times at Lynah for practices and games mostly paid for and our gas costs for traveling covered.

We even have had a decent practice time (8-9:15), not at an outrageous hour and can schedule game times at Lynah regularly.[/quote]

Glad to hear you've had success there. I don't know if it's still true, but the Buds used to be the darlings of the SAFC because they had a solid budget plan each year and filled out all of the paperwork correctly.

At any rate, it seems like the AD is still not responsible for club teams. They're SAFC-funded registered student organizations.

[heykb]

Waaay back when the Buds began, some of us originals did some things right. Once it was clear that Ultimate would be more than a one-year wonder, the guys made a point of getting formal recognition - from requesting SAFC funding to getting gym credit for participation. We also got on the schedules for (the late lamented) Lower Alumni field for outdoor games and Barton Hall for indoor games. It was surprisingly easy. I think I even played one game on Schoellkopf though maybe it was a practice before going to Penn State, where we knew we'd be playing on astroturf.

Fwiw, collegiate tournaments were rare back then. Most travel was to play a single game, then hang out with the opponents. Lucky for us, in the 70's most good college & club teams were in the east, so we had plenty of scheduling opportunities. The nearest decent opponent, btw, was Hamilton College. The only good west coast team, iirc, was UC-Santa Barbara, and they were real good.

Karl (Buds from inception to '77)

[amerks127]

I haven't had time to adequately respond to criticisms levied against our article, but now I'd like to take a minute to do so.  Sorry if it takes you a few minutes to read.

Elie and I are not ignorant of the fact that fish and swearing precede Andy Noel's tenure.  Although we make no mention of that fact in the short space we were given, I assure you that we are well aware that Coach Schafer, in his inaugural season in 1995-1996, personally asked the Faithful to stop being vulgar.  That occurred well before Andy Noel took over in 1999.  We also know that the administration has never condoned fish throwing since it first occurred in 1973.  Please, Jim, don't insinuate that we lack research or historical knowledge of Cornell hockey just because we are students and not alumni like yourself.  This is not the first time you've done this.

In addition, that was not the focus of the article; it was one of many pieces to the puzzle.  Our article pertains to the overall treatment of fans, with the majority of discussion focusing on ticket prices and policy proposals to allow the most faithful fans the opportunity to see the team from the seats they want and more often on the road.

Coach Schafer has sent mixed signals concerning his feelings of fish and swearing.

The full quotes of the New York Times article are as follows:

Cornell Coach Mike Schafer, who was a popular player for Cornell in the mid-1980s, called the Harvard game an event.

"When I was playing here as a freshman, I thought the sight of fish flying over the boards was hilarious," Schafer said. "It's still a fun tradition that has lived on over the years, and it is all a part of the same kind of electricity that a college basketball fan might find at a Duke-North Carolina game."

Later in the article Donato said:

"But over the years, I've really come to appreciate this rivalry," said Donato, whose team is the defending ECAC Hockey League champion. "And whether Cornell fans are throwing fish or newspapers on the ice, our guys have come to appreciate it as well.

"It's a great college atmosphere, one that we embrace. We also circle the Cornell-Harvard game on our schedule."

However, Schafer has also said:

"In the course of the game, it's a distraction for both teams in the sense that you have to wait for the fish to be cleaned up and everything else," Schafer said. "Everybody gets out there and they're really charged up to go, and they know that there's going to be a delay."

And

"The worst that can happen [is] fans throw stuff on the ice and it penalizes us throughout the course of the game," Schafer said. "I know that when I played we had to kill three penalties over the course of the game because of fans throwing things on the ice."

And

"I think our administration has done a good job, because at one point in time it was out of control," Schafer said. "But Cornell students won't be denied and if they want to do it they're going to find some creative way of doing it. As long as they don't cost us a penalty, that's the biggest thing."

While Noel's reasoning is this:

"Sportsmanship is a lost art in many respects and I'm not ready to give it up," Noel said. "I'm somebody that respects tradition a lot, but I don't respect tradition that is insulting to our visitors."

Thus, Noel and Schafer have very different reasons for stopping the fish.  Noel attributes it to sportsmanship while Schafer cares about winning.  Bill brought up the great point that ultimately the buck stops at Noel's desk.  He is Schafer's boss and is ultimately responsible for policy that athletics puts forth.  We respect Schafer's not wanting a penalty, and in fact desire that too, but we do not agree with how athletics has gone about doing so.

Our beef, therefore, is with athletics itself.  We do not necessarily criticize the policies themselves, rather the implementation under Noel's administration.  If the athletics department was a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common team name, then perhaps we could focus on just Coach Schafer as primarily responsible for the mistreatment of hockey fans.  However, the AD is a more cohesive unit, and thus the shortcomings we find all must relate back to the department itself, more specifically the implementation under Noel's tenure.

Ticket prices, t-shirt prices, giveaways, ticket distribution, militaristic enforcement of fish and swearing, and the lack of support for road games relate directly to Noel and the rest of the AD, not to Schafer.

As for swearing, we don't disagree that fans can cheer without swearing, but many of you are not current students.  You don't sit in the student section and get the evil stare from ushers.  It's not so much that we are no longer allow to swear, it's the enforcement mechanisms and penalties associated with swearing that is the larger issue.  That and the relative complete lack of enforcement related to the other Cornell sports.  Is swearing only unsportsmanlike for men's varsity ice hockey games?

I'd like to remind you that this was a minor focus of the article.  

As for ticket prices, in talking with many students, we've found that many would go to more games, they just simply are unwilling to shell out $15-$30 a weekend to see a couple of hockey games.  The team's mediocrity is indeed a central focus to this.  They go hand in hand, as a well performing team sells out regardless of price, and a poorly performing team does not.  We couldn't devote an entire article outlining that and I think we were quite clear when we say, "The high price and increasingly convoluted process of buying tickets, coupled with the team's relative mediocrity, produce fewer and fewer undergraduates who want to buy tickets."

Finally, just because Lynah was renovated doesn't mean student hockey fans should pay for the construction.  Lynah is a university building and is enjoyed by fans, students, townies, and athletes alike, whether it be varsity hockey, club hockey, intramural hockey, open skates, or skate with the team.  The reasoning for the AD to pass along the cost of renovation to just varsity ice hockey fans lacks substance.  If that logic was applied elsewhere, then wrestling fans should pay to watch matches at Friedman.

What I think people lose sight of is that Elie and I disagree with how the fans are treated.  I don't think either of us truly cares if we can't say "Fuck 'em up," but does saying that warrant getting our season tickets taken away, tickets, mind you, that present a decent financial burden?  There is a double standard for hockey fans, and that needs to end.

[Jim Hyla]

Thanks for the update, however I still feel you could have strengthened your point by simply acknowledging that others, most importantly Coach Schafer, wanted some of the changes you discussed. It wouldn't have taken much to put in a short phrase about it. By not doing so I felt it was necessary to make that point. Other than your words, I have no idea what knowledge you have about hockey's history.

I agree that the enforcement is the issue, but you implied that all of this was because of AD Noel. The way you said it above has a lot more meaning, at least to me.

Be careful mentioning wrestling, as that building was basically paid for by alumni. That was why I asked how many contributed to Lynah's renovation. I'm sorry if it read like I only meant the article's authors. I meant that to the entire eLynah readership, however rereading it, it's not clearly written. The reason for the renovation was the men's program. None of the other uses you mention needed the changes. If that's so then those that gain the benefits should be mainly responsible for the costs, not just students but all. In fact I agree with you that students should not have to pay more, except by an increase in fans coming to the games.