Alumni in the Pros - December 2007

Josh '99 · December 07, 2007, 01:20:28 PM

[quote redhair34][quote Trotsky]
What is the likelihood that Ryan will stay up? My impression is he was a replacement for a punishment demotion.[/quote]Not sure, though if I had to guess I'd say a much better chance than Moulson had. Either way, he is an NHL defenseman in the making based on his size and speed alone.[/quote]The impression I have is that the Canadiens definitely think of him as a real prospect, so if he continues playing well and demonstrating that he's ready then I don't see why they'd send him down.

Chris 02 · December 07, 2007, 01:54:51 PM

How is it that they keep track to the second of all the ice-time in box scores? On Yahoo, they just list total ice time, but on ESPN they list everything, PP, SH, and even. I think someone posted some kind of graph on here a while back. Seems like a lot of stats keeping.

CowbellGuy · December 07, 2007, 02:16:38 PM

The NHL keeps track of an obscene amount of stats. Most of them just don't make it into the average box score. Here's a sample:

http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20072008/PL020407.HTM

Jacob '06 · December 07, 2007, 02:17:02 PM

[quote Chris 02]How is it that they keep track to the second of all the ice-time in box scores? On Yahoo, they just list total ice time, but on ESPN they list everything, PP, SH, and even. I think someone posted some kind of graph on here a while back. Seems like a lot of stats keeping.[/quote]

From what I've seen on forums online, this should be pretty easy using software that the NHL uses. I assume it is something straightforward like having a screen with every roster number on it and just clicking the player's number as they go off/on the ice.

crodger1 · December 07, 2007, 02:22:12 PM

[quote Chris 02]How is it that they keep track to the second of all the ice-time in box scores? On Yahoo, they just list total ice time, but on ESPN they list everything, PP, SH, and even. I think someone posted some kind of graph on here a while back. Seems like a lot of stats keeping.[/quote]

I'm slightly confused by your question. What do you mean by "how is it"?

In any case, I think I might be the one who posted the chart you were talking about (maybe). From the scores pages at NHL.com (for instance, yesterday's O'B game is on this list http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?date=12%2F06%2F2007&page=Scoreboard&service=page ) you can get time on ice information (TOI) and also the event summary. There's also a game number at the top of both of those (0406).

If you then go to www.timeonice.com and tell it that this was game number "20406" (I don't know why you have to add the 2 to the front of the game number) you can see the shift charts lined up against power plays and goals. Is that what you were looking for?

Chris

LGR!

nyiballs · December 07, 2007, 03:30:17 PM

25... It depends. Look and Lunqvist and DiPietro. DP is 26 and Lundqvist is 25.

As for Tim Thomas... he was never a prospect. He got a change though and ran with it. Ryan Miller... he was still looked favorably by his management and got chances with the same organization.

Lenny will have to find another franchise willing to invest in him and take a chance. That won't be easy. With the experienced tenders out there and the never-ending stream of prospects, it just won't happen.

Look at Yann Danis... his AHL numbers have been outstanding. He got a shutout in his first NHL game, and he is still below Carey Price and others on Montreal's depth chart. (and to be fair, I think Danis' numbers were more impressive than Lenny's in college. He played on a MUCH weaker team).

It's a tough prospect getting into and stayin in the NHL as a goaltender. There are only 60 spots for the entire world to fill.

Tom Lento · December 07, 2007, 04:22:35 PM

[quote nyiballs]It's a tough prospect getting into and stayin in the NHL as a goaltender. There are only 60 spots for the entire world to fill.[/quote]

No argument with that, but I don't think LeNeveu is out based on age or past performance at this point. He's done well enough in the AHL, and played well in some of his 21 NHL games (although he was awful in some of them). His NHL time seems more like a few cups of coffee than "many opportunities" to me, but maybe NHL GMs see the world differently than I do.

His AHL/NHL career trajectory over the first 4 years isn't *that* much different from guys like Miller and DiPietro. If you look at the numbers, Miller and DiPietro weren't any better than LeNeveu during their first 20-30 games at the NHL level than he was (in fact, they may have been worse). Like you say, the big difference is that those guys had teams committed to their development, instead of Phoenix, which doesn't seem committed to developing ANY goaltending talent.

After a little more digging, I see Ilya Bryzgalov actually has an almost identical career pattern to LeNeveu, just with fewer NHL games early in his career - second round draft pick, several seasons in the minors with a few cups of coffee in the pros, and then a season or two as a back up starting at age 25. At 27, he's Phoenix's starter, and is essentially an average NHL goalie stats-wise.

Bad luck for LeNeveu ending up in Phoenix. It may be that he's not good enough, too, but he may never really find out. However, some other team might well be willing to take a chance on him, given his numbers, his size, his technique, and the fact that he really *hasn't* gotten time at the NHL level but *has* spent a few seasons developing in the AHL.

In two seasons, if he's still flailing around posting a .910 save % in the AHL, then I'd agree that he's beyond a long shot for the NHL. At this point, I think he still qualifies as a legitimate prospect, just not the can't miss, A-list prospect he was when he first signed with Phoenix. He'll need a few breaks to make it to the NHL, just like any AHL goaltending prospect, but he's not done yet.

Josh '99 · December 07, 2007, 04:56:37 PM

[quote CowbellGuy]The NHL keeps track of an obscene amount of stats. Most of them just don't make it into the average box score. Here's a sample:

http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20072008/PL020407.HTM[/quote]Ugh, did you have to pick the report from THAT game? ::bang::

billhoward · December 07, 2007, 04:57:32 PM

>>> Bad luck for LeNeveu ending up in Phoenix. It may be that he's not good enough, too, but he may never really find out.

Nice summary of Leneveu's chances.

Ronald '09 · December 07, 2007, 05:43:33 PM

[quote Josh '99][quote CowbellGuy]The NHL keeps track of an obscene amount of stats. Most of them just don't make it into the average box score. Here's a sample:

http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20072008/PL020407.HTM[/quote]Ugh, did you have to pick the report from THAT game? ::bang::[/quote]

Would you have preferred this game? I should would.

http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20052006/PL030132.HTM

DeltaOne81 · December 07, 2007, 07:58:53 PM

[quote scoop85][quote nyiballs]Hate to say it, but I think Lenny's days as a bonafide NHL prospect are over. I don't think any team is going to pick up on an aging career AHLer who hasn't shown once that he can handle the NHL game, even given many opportunities.[/quote]

I think that's a bit premature. Look how Tim Thomas has flourished after years of seemingly going nowhere.[/quote]

Not to mention Manny Legace:
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=3081

scoop85 · December 07, 2007, 10:50:04 PM

Murray +1 after one period as SJ leads Phoenix 1-0. At the beginning of the season, who would have thought Douglas would be getting a regular shift, while Matt Carle has been relegated to spot duty? ::crazy::

Brian · December 08, 2007, 09:54:56 AM

Check out the line for the Manchester/Worcester game last night. The first player in the shoot out for each team was a Cornell alum and they both scored! Swweeeett!

Beeeej · December 08, 2007, 11:23:48 AM

[quote Brian]Check out the line for the Manchester/Worcester game last night. The first player in the shoot out for each team was a Cornell alum and they both scored! Swweeeett![/quote]

Feel free to, y'know, tell us who they were or provide a link to the aforementioned line for the game.

RichH · December 08, 2007, 12:21:22 PM

[quote Beeeej][quote Brian]Check out the line for the Manchester/Worcester game last night. The first player in the shoot out for each team was a Cornell alum and they both scored! Swweeeett![/quote]

Feel free to, y'know, tell us who they were or provide a link to the aforementioned line for the game.[/quote]

Yeah, seriously. So I went and did the work:

http://stats.theahl.com/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=1003850

Moulson and Iggulden. Moulson is wearing an "A" for Manchester and Iggulden had an assist in the game.