MLax: Cornell 16 @ Syracuse 15 (FINAL)

[DeltaOne81]

[quote Jacob '06][quote Josh '99]Well that's a relief.  (I guess winning is relieving rather than exciting when you're #1.)

Why did Coluccini (who played a hell of a game, by the way) think that last goal shouldn't have counted?[/quote]

My best guess is that he thinks Max got into the crease before the shot went in, but I'm pretty sure from the replay that he didn't.[/quote]

Agreed and agreed (meaning, I'm pretty sure that's what he thinks, and I'm pretty sure he's wrong (watched it a few times on my TiVo) ).

[Rita]

[quote DeltaOne81][quote Rita]
There is a midfield line. You must have 4 players, counting the goalie, in your defensive zone and three in your attack zone. The midfielders typically go in both zones, although you will sometimes see a defender cross midfield on a clear (with a middie back in the offensive zone). I've even see a goalie do it.[/quote]

One brief clarification. The 4 need not include the goalie - if the goalie goes up field, which the Cuse goalie did a couple times this game - then someone else just needs to stay back.

And there is a limit on long-stick men. I think its 4.[/quote]

Thanks everyone for the answers.. it helps!

[Swampy]

Rita,

I used to coach youth lacrosse. We had lost something like five games in a row before we finally won. In that game, we had one kid who could dodge and beat any of their defenders one-on-one. So we put in a play at halftime that everyone else would clear out, and this kid would try to dodge and get a clear shot. If they double-teamed him or slid over to help, our other guys would move to the corners of the crease for a pass and quick shot.

While body checking from in front is allowed, if you miss your check you are beat. Defenders learn to stay on their toes and between their man and the goal. This is easier said than done against someone like Seibald.

[DeltaOne81]

[quote Ronald '09]well we won, but if we want to contend, we're going to need better goaltending[/quote]

While McMonagle has been incredible, this was not one of his best, or even good, days. 11 saves on 26 shots on goal, including 1 on 7 shorts in the third quarter. If McM had saved 50% (which isn't necessarily good itself) in the 2nd & 3rd quarters, it would have been a 3 or 4 goal game late.

Everyone's entitled to a bad game, and its great we still won, but lets just hope its an oddity (if anyone with more lax knowledge wants to say why Syracuse was having great shots instead, I'm more than happy to listen, but from my perspective I saw a lot of outside shots making it into the net one after another).

[Swampy]

Great win and very exciting watching the updates on Laxpower!

I have a question. Is the Carrier Dome's field artificial turf, and has CU played much on artificial turf this year?

This may have something to do with the high score and the scoring from 12 yards out.

[billhoward]

Awesome game. A win is a win. Take 'em anyway you can get them. Team showed heart not to fold. (What cliches have I missed?)

So, we're not invincible, but we're also not beaten. Shows we can put up big offensive numbers on lots of teams. Need to keep the other guys from figuring out our defense.

Amazing ending by Seibald. After a certain point in your life (say, 25?) you seem to recall more times when you're the team that gives up goals like this. Feels great when it's your team scoring them.

What is the crease violation rule now: Can't enter the crease? Can't end the play in the crease unless pushed? Or can't cross the vertical plane of the crease? Syracuse could argue Seibald came close to crossing the plane but he sure would have had a nudge from Syracuse to get him there. At least he didn't take 5 steps without dribbling like the DII (III?) final game.

Now to get past this weekend and then get ready for Princeton.

[Josh '99]

[quote Swampy]Great win and very exciting watching the updates on Laxpower!

I have a question. Is the Carrier Dome's field artificial turf, and has CU played much on artificial turf this year?

This may have something to do with the high score and the scoring from 12 yards out.[/quote]Schoellkopf is (as far as I know, still) artificial turf.

[Ronald '09]

[quote DeltaOne81][quote Ronald '09]well we won, but if we want to contend, we're going to need better goaltending[/quote]

While McMonagle has been incredible, this was not one of his best, or even good, days. 11 saves on 26 shots on goal, including 1 on 7 shorts in the third quarter. If McM had saved 50% (which isn't necessarily good itself) in the 2nd & 3rd quarters, it would have been a 3 or 4 goal game late.

Everyone's entitled to a bad game, and its great we still won, but lets just hope its an oddity (if anyone with more lax knowledge wants to say why Syracuse was having great shots instead, I'm more than happy to listen, but from my perspective I saw a lot of outside shots making it into the net one after another).[/quote]

I never said I don't have confidence that he will play better the rest of the season, but today, he was the reason the game was so close.  That was not a good thing.

Swampy, have you seriously never noticed that our home field is an artificial surface?  Our field is astroturf and I'm pretty sure cuse plays on field turf (correct me if I'm wrong about that), but as far as speed of the game, that should not make that big a difference.

[Swampy]

My bad. But hey, the last time I attended a lacrosse game in Ithaca, they were using wooden sticks. Give me a break.

[mtmack25]

Edit: already answered

[David Harding]

Men's Lacrosse Rules condensed
http://www.uslacrosse.org/the_sport/mens_rules.phtml

[scoop85]

[quote Ronald '09]well we won, but if we want to contend, we're going to need better goaltending[/quote]

Agreed, but losing 75% of faceoffs won't help us, either.

[DeltaOne81]

[quote Ronald '09]
I never said I don't have confidence that he will play better the rest of the season, but today, he was the reason the game was so close.  That was not a good thing.[/quote]

Agreed.

What is the crease violation rule now: Can't enter the crease? Can't end the play in the crease unless pushed? Or can't cross the vertical plane of the crease? Syracuse could argue Seibald came close to crossing the plane but he sure would have had a nudge from Syracuse to get him there. At least he didn't take 5 steps without dribbling like the DII (III?) final game.

Well I was thinking it was that the ball had to enter the net before you touched the crease grass/turf, but I think that's the old rule, so I decided to look up the current wording.

SECTION 9. Under the following conditions, a goal shall be disallowed:
...
c. When the ball passes through the plane of the goal and when any part of
the body of a player of the attacking team is in the goal-crease area at
the time (my note: this must mean on the ground, see later interpretations)
...
k. After a player in the act of shooting or his teammate makes contact with
the goalkeeper in the crease or touches any part of the goal or netting
before the ball enters the goal
...
m. If an attacking player deliberately leaves his feet by jumping or diving
and his momentum carries him into the crease area, regardless of
whether he lands in the crease before or after the ball enters the goal.

There is also this section:

a. If an offensive player deliberately leaves his feet by diving or jumping and his own momentum carries him into the crease, and his shot goes into the goal, the goal is disallowed.

A.R. 87. A1 drives toward goal and jumps or dives into the crease. (1) The ball goes into the goal; or (2) The ball does not go into the goal. RULING: (1) No goal. Ball awarded to defensive team. (2) Play-on or whistle.

A.R. 88. A1 dives or jumps towards the crease and, while in the air, gets illegally checked into the crease. (1) Ball goes into the goal or (2) ball does not go into the goal. RULING: (1) Flag down, goal counts (unless A1 is in the crease before the ball enters the goal) assess penalty; (2) Flag down, assess penalty.

A.R. 89. A1 dives or jumps into the crease and, while in the air, gets legally pushed or checked. (1) Ball goes into the goal or (2) ball does not go into the goal. RULING: (1) No goal. Ball awarded to the defensive team. (2) Play-on or whistle.

A.R. 90. A1 dives or jumps through the air space of the crease with the potential to land outside the crease. (1) The ball goes in the goal; or (2) The goalkeeper contacts A1 while he is in the air. RULING: (1) Goal counts. (2) No goal. Award ball to defensive team.

A.R. 91. A1 dives or jumps through the air space of the crease and, while in the air, (1) Gets legally pushed into the crease with the ball entering the goal before A1 lands in the crease; or (2) Gets illegally pushed into the crease. RULING: (1) Goal counts. (2) Flag down. Goal counts if ball enters the goal before A1 lands in the crease.

A.R. 92. A1 dives or jumps outside the crease and (1) Gets checked illegally into the crease; or (2) Gets checked legally into the crease. RULING: (1) Flag down, goal counts if ball goes in goal before A1 contacts the ground. Penalty eliminated unless for personal foul. (2) Goal counts, provided that the ball entered the goal before A1 contacted
the ground.

So...

My reading of all this is that you can't jump into the crease under your own power and score a goal. However, if you're checked into the crease when you were really jumping by it/over it (with the potential to land outside), then its a goal as long as the ball went in before you hit the ground.

However, its not a goal if you make contact with a goalie (whos in the crease) in any way.

I think... anyway. If I'm missing something in the rules

So it seems to me that the goalie would have had to be complaining the Seibald actually landed in the crease under his own power (I don't believe so although it was close), or that he contacted the goalie in the process (just watched it a few times, and that was definitely not the case).

Even if Seibald did barely land in the crease (and I still don't think so), the wording is "with the potential to land outside the crease", and it depends if that means as long as its reasonably close, or if it means landing outside so long as you aren't touched.

All in all, I'm still pretty sure it was good

[Beeeej]

[quote Robb]Take that, Swami!  ::rock::[/quote]

"Syracuse sucks this year - and Cornell only beat them by one?!"
     - Swami

[Jim Hyla]

Well, to my view, the winning goal was questionable at best. Siebald beat their best defenseman, but definately went airborne. He had a slight stick check from behind when he was in the air. At no time was he in the crease, so that's not a point. However this rule eliminates the Air Gait type of goal and I think you could make a good case to disallow it.::worry::