Cornell Goaltenders

[WillCMJr]

Right on the money Bandrews.  Scrivens may be a 'flopper' but Davenport has flopped many more times this season.

One more important point, Scrivens had a good game in his last game, and the next two are at Lynah.  The crowd definitely shows more support for Scrivens, we need them as loud as they can get.  Him getting the start will pump them up!

[bandit1]

Didn't mean to annoy you.  I always love reading about the fans perspective.  Although I don't play "monday morning quaterback" for hockey, I do as a huge football fan.

[hockeydude]

New to posting on the forum here, but have been following for awhile. I'll preface this post by saying I believe Davenport is the better goalie and has shown it. This is also not done to take a stab at Scrivens. He has done well and is a capable goalie.

It has just been painful to watch this debate go on at times this year. Many of the things said regarding the goalies just shows how much some people on here do not know regarding the goaltender position, and at times, hockey in general. There are people on this forum who just keep pulling numbers out of the box scores and are trying to make a point to say Davenport has been bad based on the numbers. By reading this it is obvious that these people have not been to a number of the games they talk about and, if they have, they obviously don't know what they are watching.

Many of the games that constantly get brought up here such as Dartmouth, Quinnipiac, Maine, Wayne State, I question whether the people were even at the games. The team played just garbage in these games and there were numerous goals that went in off of our own players. None of the goals that went in were bad goals on Davenport's side of it.

Also the second Dartmouth game Davenport played a good game. There may have been only 21 shots, but all were within the tops of the circles, with screens,and also unchallanged. The team played terrible defence and did not pick any guys up. When a goalie is getting shots taken on them from inside the hash marks their job is to just stop the first shot, that is it because on those it's pretty much just positioning and reflex. Controlling the rebound is almost impossible on those.

The Wayne State game the team played terrible the entire game, even when Scrivens was in. If you watch they were always out of position and not picking people up and allowing open shots. 2 ppg in the first 13 minuts, one 5x3. On second ppg all four of the penalty killers were on the opposite side of the ice as the puck and the two Wayne State players. One skated around the back of the net and threw a pass to a wide open man standing just outside the crease to pound it home.

In the first Quinnipiac game there were numberous turnovers in our own end and lots of screens and odd man rushes.

Maine, the team did not cover men in the slot at all. That is where all the goals came from. On one of the goals the Maine player got the puck at the point and all of our players skated away from him and let him walk all the way down.

The second Princeton game has also been mentioned lately and that is just garbage. It just shows how far people are reaching to try to show Scrivens has been better. In that game the team was up 8-1 going into the third and packed it in (just like they packed it in during the third period in the first game which carried over to the next night just like it did here). They left Davenport all alone the whole period and did not pick anyone up. He made some huge saves in that game as well and had he not the game could have been different.

Also the game in which he has saved the team are not mentioned here such as Princeton (game 1, game saving save on a 3 on 0 off a turnover in our own zone with under 5 minutes left), Harvard (game 1, made the comeback possible), Quinnipiac (enough said), Brown (numerous guys streaking in untouched taking and tipping shots inside the hashes), Wayne State (we ony got 2 goals), Clarkson (huge saves and one on Grenzy in the third after he was left alone to walk all the way in, even the Clarkson announcers named him the #1 star and he had less saves than Leggio) and a great game against UNH.

This post, as I said earlier, is not to be taken as a hit against Scrivens. It is just to show why debates about goaltenders on this forum are going to go nowhere. People come on here with their biases and are just fishing for numbers to try and put against Davenport. Ex.

68.4% is pretty bad (I'm counting the disallowed goal)

First of all those numbers aren't even correct, Omie just went on to a site to find the lowest saves Davenport was credited for (as opposed to the official saves credited) then added a goal that wasn't counted. This is so terrible. You can't go counting goals that aren't scored against goalies. That is like saying, the team won the game 2-o, but the goalie with the shutout had 15 saves, but 3 goals were disallowed because of high sticking. So the team really lost 3-2 and his save percentage was .833 as opposed to 1.000. So until people stop looking for made numbers and actually learn something about goaltending and team hockey this is pointless.

[RichH]

[quote WillCMJr]The crowd definitely shows more support for Scrivens, we need them as loud as they can get.  Him getting the start will pump them up![/quote]

Now you're just making things up.  No way Lynah is louder or more supportive for one goalie or the other.  Volume depends on the level of opponent hatred, excitement of the game, and the way CU is playing (and if school is in session).

[Dpperk29]

based on my limited exposure to cornell this year, here is my opinion.

Davenport is a really good goalie when he is on (see game at cheel). However, when davenport isn't on... he is down right brutal (see Wayne State game one).

Scrivens is a solid goalie who has highs that aren;t as high and lows that aren;t as low. from what I have seen, he plays a solid game and can keep the puck out of the net most of the time.

I think scrivens might be a more consistant goalie, but when cornell runs up against a team with a good offense (Clarkson, Quinipac, SLU(t), Dartmouth) Davenport will give you the best chance to win, as long as he is having a good night.

take it or leave it... but that;s what I think.

[WillCMJr]

Don't be rude.  Maybe I'm just more observant.  The crowd does give Scrivens a more enthusiastic introduction.  And when they win and he's leaving the ice they give him a rousing 'Scrivens, Scrivens,..."  Sorry you haven't noticed, but Davenport does not get the same level of support.

[BCrespi]

I'm sure many of our fellow forum-members appreciated your thought-out, thoroughly described argument.  I know I particularly agree with your stance on the Princeton blowout-turned shoot-out, and how Davenport should not be scrutinized based on his performance behind an unimpassioned D with a huge lead. However, you might want to tone it down a little here, Dude.  We're all trying to have fun and we're all entitled to our opinions.  Whether or not you agree is up to you, and you should certainly state that opinion, but it's not as if we're trying to lie to you.  Have some fun.  It's college hockey.  Let's Go Red.

[BCrespi]

[quote Dpperk29]based on my limited exposure to cornell this year, here is my opinion.

Davenport is a really good goalie when he is on (see game at cheel). However, when davenport isn't on... he is down right brutal (see Wayne State game one).

Scrivens is a solid goalie who has highs that aren;t as high and lows that aren;t as low. from what I have seen, he plays a solid game and can keep the puck out of the net most of the time.

I think scrivens might be a more consistant goalie, but when cornell runs up against a team with a good offense (Clarkson, Quinipac, SLU(t), Dartmouth) Davenport will give you the best chance to win, as long as he is having a good night.

take it or leave it... but that;s what I think.[/quote]

I'll take it.  I think that's a pretty fair assessment.  That being said, I still would have a hard time picking who I want to start in the post-season.  Probably Davenport though, as many have said, I feel more comfortable with him in there.  I find it very interesting that so many of us feel this way even though he gives such an inconsistent effort.  I suppose it's due to his sounder fundamentals.

[ebilmes]

"Davenport's the guy who had the strange disappearing-year thingy. Why did he come back? He did pretty well at the beginning of the season, but, you know, like, that was a long time ago. Like, before there was a lot of snow here in Ithaca. He did pretty badly in some games after that. Yeah, maybe he won against UNH, but when the hell was that game? Every time he plays, Coach Schaefferr has to take him out.

Oh, good, Scrivens is in! He's the hotelie, the popular freshman. He's more enthusiastic; you can tell he wants to play. He has that unpainted helmet. He should always be in goal."

That is why Scrivens gets more of a response.

[WillCMJr]

I will say one thing, I think neither of them are bad and it's nice to have the competition and a back-up plan.  McKee played pretty poor for a while last year, and I think if there was some competition, regardless of his All-American type reputation he would have gotten benched at some point.  I think both goalies are performing better right now than he did a good share of last season.

I agree that Scrivens has been more consistent, and even if Davenport has a higher upside right now, I believe this is the wrong time to have a crap shoot.

I will support the goalie who gives the team the best chance to win, even if it's Davenport.  But his tendency to let in a flurry of goals is really scary.

[RichH]

[quote WillCMJr]Don't be rude.  Maybe I'm just more observant.  The crowd does give Scrivens a more enthusiastic introduction.  And when they win and he's leaving the ice they give him a rousing 'Scrivens, Scrivens,..."  Sorry you haven't noticed, but Davenport does not get the same level of support.[/quote]

First, I didn't think I was being rude in my previous post.  If you took it to be so, I apologize.  Second, if you've haven't noticed the crowd chanting the name of the goaltender as the team skates off for just about every CU win, then no, I don't think you're more observant at all.  Maybe subconciously biased so you think the crowd is louder for your guy.

Going back 10 years, it seemed only a particularly outstanding game would get the end-game chant (Ell-i-ott!  Ell-i-ott!).  Starting around Underhill's tenure (probably because the name is so easy to chant, UN-DER-HILL!), the Faithful started doing this after every win, and as the goaltender is usually one of the last ones off the ice, he responds with a stick salute back.  It continued with "Le-Ne-Veu!" and "Dave Mc-Kee!"  "Scriv-ens!" gets the rare 2 syllable chant, but a fun one was always "BURT! BURT! BURT!"  Anyway, my point is that "DAV-EN-PORT!" has most certainly been chanted at Lynah this year, including a very loud one vs. Quinnipiac.  Perhaps you weren't at those games where it occurred.

[Jim Hyla]

[quote ebilmes]"Davenport's the guy who had the strange disappearing-year thingy. Why did he come back? [/Q]Do you mean why did he leavre school when he realized McKee was always going to be the No. 1 goalie? If you need education about that you need to go back over old threads. It's been well discussed.::rolleyes::[Q] Every time he plays, Coach Schaefferr has to take him out.[/Q]Now this shows you really understand the game. What kind of a statement is this, certainly not a true one? And at least learn how to spell the coaches name. It's in the spelling guide that Age has on the right border.

[Q]Oh, good, Scrivens is in! He's the hotelie, the popular freshman. He's more enthusiastic; you can tell he wants to play. He has that unpainted helmet. He should always be in goal."

That is why Scrivens gets more of a response.[/quote]Maybe this whole thing is a joke? If not and you really like Scrivens better, just use god discussion and leave it at that. All this other crap is exactly that. Now I'll get off my horse and smile.:-D

[RichH]

[quote Jim Hyla]Maybe this whole thing is a joke? [/quote]

I think ebilmes, inside his quotation marks, was presenting the theoretical thought process of a typical fringe fan/facetimer.  The kind of fan who can't spell coach's name, or doesn't care to.  ebilmes himself is a pretty intelligent poster.

[RichH]

[quote WillCMJr]I will say one thing, I think neither of them are bad and it's nice to have the competition and a back-up plan.  

I will support the goalie who gives the team the best chance to win[/quote]

OK, that's two things I can get behind 100%.  Well said.  I don't think either guy has been anywhere close to Dryden Award caliber, unfortunately, but they're both capable of doing well.

I think this season has made me want to find the Hobey nay-sayers over the last four years and ask them again if they really think it was "The System" with both '03 LeNeveu and '05 McKee.

[Josh '99]

[quote RichH][quote Jim Hyla]Maybe this whole thing is a joke? [/quote]

I think ebilmes, inside his quotation marks, was presenting the theoretical thought process of a typical fringe fan/facetimer.  The kind of fan who can't spell coach's name, or doesn't care to.  ebilmes himself is a pretty intelligent poster.[/quote]And he brought newspaper to Harvard!