Should Cornell Build a New Arena?

[ugarte]

[quote Ben Rocky 04] Look at the photo of Bucknell's facility.  They sold out the game, and I'd imagine they didn't shoot their admissions standards with a shotgun to do it.[/quote]They had a couple of shockingly good recruiting classes and managed to get to the Sweet 16. I guarantee you that Bucknell's current success and attendance is an abberation. At some point in the next three years Bucknell will not win the Patriot (hell, it could be this year) and they will no longer sell out the building. Also, Patriot League teams can give out scholarships which gives them another advantage over us. Using an abberation like Bucknell (or for that matter the wildly-overblown-but-immensely-enjoyed occassional postseason success of the P's) to justify replacing a new building with a bigger, more expensive facility is folly.

[q]Sports are part of American college life, they increase student's school pride, and being in rink or basketball arena with thousands of other undergraduates on a Friday night in February in Ithaca is what being a Cornellian is all about.[/q]

This is somewhat true but also a lot of bullshitery. How much should be spent on that pride? And wouldn't a lot of that money be better spent? Keep in mind that we aren't talking about going from playing in the Milan High gym or the cavernous Barton to a new facility; we are talking about taking a fairly new structure in excellent (if uninsipiring) condition and turning it into a practice facility / volleyball arena. (Willy '06 notwithstanding, I don't think volleyball will use Newman's capacity any time soon.)

[q]Ugarte, you are correct that the best we can hope for is an Ivy title every few years, and a first round lost in the big dance, but whatever, I'm fine with that; in fact, I'd be proud of it.[/quote]

Yeah, that was my point. And we are actually probably already there without shitcanning our current facility.

[Ben Rocky '04]

[quote ugarte]They had a couple of shockingly good recruiting classes and managed to get to the Sweet 16. I guarantee you that Bucknell's current success and attendance is an abberation. At some point in the next three years Bucknell will not win the Patriot (hell, it could be this year) and they will no longer sell out the building. Also, Patriot League teams can give out scholarships which gives them another advantage over us. Using an abberation like Bucknell (or for that matter the wildly-overblown-but-immensely-enjoyed occassional postseason success of the P's) to justify replacing a new building with a bigger, more expensive facility is folly. [/quote]

[quote ugarte]This is somewhat true but also a lot of bullshitery. How much should be spent on that pride? And wouldn't a lot of that money be better spent? Keep in mind that we aren't talking about going from playing in the Milan High gym or the cavernous Barton to a new facility; we are talking about taking a fairly new structure in excellent (if uninsipiring) condition and turning it into a practice facility / volleyball arena. (Willy '06 notwithstanding, I don't think volleyball will use Newman's capacity any time soon.)[/quote]

[quote ugarte]Yeah, that was my point. And we are actually probably already there without shitcanning our current facility.[/quote]

[quote Ben Rocky 04]I'm not pushing for a new facility until we can fill the old one, but I think CornellFan is right.[/quote]

As I said, until we fill Newman, its not worth thinking about replacing it. Its only ~15 years old, and it still looks brand spanking new.

What I am talking about is making sure we continue to expand the scope and success of our basketball recruiting, get further above .500 and as a consequence, hopefully increase the fanbase for it on campus. Not every student, staff or faculty member will get into hockey, and lots of people are already into basketball, plus, we've got the arena, why the heck not make some money selling tickets to the broader Ithaca community?  The only new inceased expenditure I'm talking about is improving Donahue's salary, if he so desires, so that we don't loose him.

As for improving facilities, I'm with RichH. We fix and improve things as they need it; not when we want to. Schoellkopf works great for the 5 varsity teams it supports, and hopefully those varsity teams will not stretched too thin with the loss of some of alumni fields. Lynah needed some renovations and those visiting lockerrooms were a joke, so I support that. The new soccer/track field was needed, and I'm sure whatever they did to Hoy was responsibly thought out.  Now Friedman.....

[KeithK]

[quote Ben Rocky 04][Lynah needed some renovations and those visiting lockerrooms were a joke, so I support that. [/quote]Why do people not understand that that was not a bug, it was a feature?

[Ben Rocky '04]

[quote KeithK][quote Ben Rocky 04][Lynah needed some renovations and those visiting lockerrooms were a joke, so I support that. [/quote]Why do people not understand that that was not a bug, it was a feature?[/quote]

So what you're saying is we should keep the old ones for Harvard (sucks), Clarkson, BU, and Minnesota, and let everyone else use the new ones?

[RichH]

[quote Ben Rocky 04][quote KeithK][quote Ben Rocky 04][Lynah needed some renovations and those visiting lockerrooms were a joke, so I support that. [/quote]Why do people not understand that that was not a bug, it was a feature?[/quote]

So what you're saying is we should keep the old ones for Harvard (sucks), Clarkson, BU, and Minnesota, and let everyone else use the new ones?[/quote]

Nah...stick North Dakota and New Hampshire in there, too.   Hell, give 'em the closet that the bears used to use as a changing room.  ::starwars::

[Al DeFlorio]

[quote CornellFan]In the "old days" of Barton Hall, how did Cornell set up the bleachers with respect to the indoor track?

I am just curious how the stands were arranged in relation to the track.[/quote]
The track may be a different size and in a different location today than when Barton was used for basketball.  The basketball court was wood, not synthetic back then.  The best way to see how bleachers were set up is to find a copy of Bob Kane's book Good Sports in the Campus Store or library and look at pages 103, 218 (showing the indoor Heps, not basketball), and 223.  At least 9,000 were in Barton for the win over Bill Bradley and Princeton in January 1965.

[Beeeej]

[quote RichH][quote Ben Rocky 04][quote KeithK][quote Ben Rocky 04][Lynah needed some renovations and those visiting lockerrooms were a joke, so I support that. [/quote]Why do people not understand that that was not a bug, it was a feature?[/quote]

So what you're saying is we should keep the old ones for Harvard (sucks), Clarkson, BU, and Minnesota, and let everyone else use the new ones?[/quote]

Nah...stick North Dakota and New Hampshire in there, too.   Hell, give 'em the closet that the bears used to use as a changing room.  ::starwars::[/quote]

Calling that a closet is quite charitable.

[Cactus12]

Cornell basketball has the very real potential of becoming Cornell's biggest revenue sport. Our administration has yet to grasp that concept.

Only if the bball players also happen to be excellent hedge fund managers... Cornell bball does not contend for a national title and neither recruits nor produces NBA quality players. This is not changing anytime soon.

[ugarte]

[quote Cactus12]

Cornell basketball has the very real potential of becoming Cornell's biggest revenue sport. Our administration has yet to grasp that concept.

Only if the bball players also happen to be excellent hedge fund managers... Cornell bball does not contend for a national title and neither recruits nor produces NBA quality players. This is not changing anytime soon.[/quote]

It is also worth noting that "revenue sport" very, very rarely means "profit generating sport." This year's Cinderella Rutgers football team LOST over $6 million dollars despite multiple TV appearances, increased attendance and a bowl game. The hockey team won't make back the cost of the Lynah renovations in 10 years, the basketball team will not make back the cost of Newman, much less the proposed single-use stadium.

[billhoward]

New arena? Nice idea, ain't gonna happen. Newman is okay for most Cornell hoops games other than looking like a big high school gym. If only a donor had coughed up an extra million for some atmosphere. Make it more of a Seinfeld Hall than Newman Arena.

Our big arena is already built: Barton Hall. You want 5000 or even 10,000 for hoops, that's your place. You got sort-of intimacy by putting the court in the middle of the running track and rolling up portable bleachers on three sides. Cornell may have used hardwood but in most of its last hoops-playing years it was the synthetic surface. Didn't hurt the quality of Cornell's play one bit. Bob Kane may have been a legendary athletic director in his three-plus decades at the helm of Cornell, bringing in Richie Moran and Ned Harkness, but he had horrible choices in basketball coaches Jerry Lace, Dave Bliss (the same one who coached Baylor), and Tony Coma, the latter an alcoholic who whipped virtually-all-black (the team) Cheyney State into shape in D-III and sunk Cornell Low in Cayuga's Waters (how Sports Illustrated headlined the Big Red). Frank Dolson, then sports editor of the Philadelphia Inquirer, said Coma's reputation was paper-thin and he can't believe how Cornell failed to investigate him more thoroughly.

It's great Cornell basketball is doing well. Many of us are happy for Cornell but fear an eventual reversion to norm. Will Steve Donahue pull a Pete Caril and close out his career here? That would be too much to hope for. Thus Newman may be the right size if not the right atmosphere.

[Al DeFlorio]

[quote billhoward]Bob Kane may have been a legendary athletic director in his three-plus decades at the helm of Cornell, bringing in Richie Moran and Ned Harkness, but he had horrible choices in basketball coaches Jerry Lace, Dave Bliss (the same one who coached Baylor), and Tony Coma, the latter an alcoholic who whipped virtually-all-black (the team) Cheyney State into shape in D-III and sunk Cornell Low in Cayuga's Waters (how Sports Illustrated headlined the Big Red).[/quote]
Don't think Bliss ever coached at Cornell.  Player, but never head coach.  Your point about the quality of the coaches who immediately followed Sam MacNeil is certainly valid, however.

Carril had a wonderful half-court offense.  Donahue has no concept of one.

[billhoward]

OT a bit: Dave Bliss I believe was the assistant coach who finished out the season when Tony Coma was fired midway through in 1973 or 1974. He got caught up in a minor side-scandal (it seems so minor compared to the Reggie Bush kinds of things): Because Cornell had trouble recruiting, the coaches paid application fees under the table and hid the expenses elsewhere in the basketball budget.

[billhoward]

[quote Chris '03][quote RichH]
Personally, I'd like to see CU basketball stage a "turn back the clock" night and play one game in Barton Hall.[/quote]

I think that would be a lot of fun. Coach Donahue has an old black and white photo of a Syracuse AT?!?! Cornell game played in Barton ages ago in front of an overflow crowd. If I recall, all the fans were wearing shirts and ties too. I'll settle for the overflow crowd and a home game vs. Syracuse. :-P[/quote]

... turn back the clock to the point of wearing Bill Bradley-style shorts?

[Josh '99]

[quote billhoward]Make it more of a Seinfeld Hall than Newman Arena.[/quote]::bang::

[mnagowski]

This is going back a long way, but speaking of bringing more character to Newman, can't they just paint some of the cinder blocks red?