Cornell Feed Screw-up

[RedAR]

The real pisser to this entire situation is that there is really nothing that the AD can do.  The technical difficulty was probably Real Network's problem, and the AD has no authority to extend you contract.

Furthermore, the user agreement that you agree to by using the service states that your only recourse is to cancel your service, without any refund of the fees you have already paid.  A snip from the user agreement:

"UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WILL RN BE LIABLE IN ANY WAY FOR ANY CONTENT THAT YOU HAVE ACCESS TO DURING YOUR SUBSCRIPTION PERIOD, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ANY ERRORS OR OMISSIONS IN ANY CONTENT, QUALITY OF THE CONTENT, AVAILABILITY OF THE CONTENT, THE SUBJECT MATTER OF THE CONTENT, OR FOR ANY LOSS OR DAMAGE OF ANY KIND INCURRED AS A RESULT OF THE USE OF ANY CONTENT PROVIDED AS PART OF THE SERVICE.
 
2. YOUR RIGHT TO CANCEL REALONE SERVICES
You may cancel the RealOne Services at any time. You will not receive any refund or partial refund for any charges already billed to your account. In the event you signed up for a minimum commitment period, you will be responsible for all charges for the entire minimum commitment period... You understand and agree that cancellation of your subscription is your sole right and remedy with respect to any dispute with RN. This includes, but is not limited to, any dispute related to, or arising out of: (1) any term of this Agreement or RN's enforcement or application of this Agreement; (2) any policy or practice of RN, including any RN Privacy Policy, or RN's enforcement or application of these policies; (3) the Content available through RN or the Internet or any change in Content provided through RN; (4) your ability to access and/or use the Content; (5) any RealNetworks Software or Content provided by or through RealNetworks; or (6) the amount or type of fees, applicable taxes, billing methods, or any change to the fees, applicable taxes, or billing methods."

Bottom line is that while some of us may have felt that with paid service, we had MORE rights, we actually agreed to relinquishing all our rights when we signed up.

So, with the AD's move to the CornellPass, we have:
1) inferior content (no video)
2) inferior quality of available content (sound quality)
3) inferior reliability of content

In previous years, if we didn't like the service provided, we could just stop listening with no financial penalties.  Now, there is a financial penalty in the form of the prepaid service charge.

Anyone from the AD care to comment on what the improvements are?

Sorry for the long post.

[Greg Berge]

Shrug.  If RN is not providing their advertised service then the subscribers are entitled to recompense.  After all, if RN wrote into their contract "You will also forfeit your first born to us," and we signed it, it still would not be binding.  Companies make absurd statements in fine print all the time that are unenforceable or even directly contrary to legal practice.  I'm not impressed.

[bigred apple]

Not as easy as you think, Greg.  "Give me your first born" is not the same thing as "we give no warranties as to quality."  You can waive a lot in contracts, including the right to a refund.   They don't care when you say that "the only reason I bought this was for Cornell games".  There was probably a lot of available content that you purchased but didn't use.  

The only thing you have going for you is the possibility that you can nag them enough to give you your money back - but that is the kind of courtesy big companies give to get rid of squeaky wheels, not a concession that they would not win in court.  Ever seen the sign "no refunds or exchanges" in a retail store? That's enforcable also.

[marty]

Thanks for the long post.  You are correct about the AD not being in a position to take any monetary action.  It clears the air a bit and hopefully will get this thread moving in a positive direction.

If we are going to make any headway with the AD we shouldn't ask for the impossible.  My hope is that things will change when whatever contract Cornell has with Real Networks expires.

For now we can ask the AD's office to contact the folks who run the feeds to lessen the chance of further screw ups.  That is the two of "us" who paid for the service can make such a contact.

[Greg Berge]

All good points, b.r.a.

I think the main points are:

(1) This is a problem with RN, not with Cornell athletics (other than the original decision to use RN, which is now spilled milk).

(2) We need the correct tech support contact info so that if/when this happens again we can bug the right people.  I hope nobody gave Laura and those folks anything other than a heads-up that there was a problem, since she is only trying to help.

(3) RN may well be contractually unassailable, but as a service provider they can't want their customers loudly grousing that they suck, with the stories and data to back it up.  Personally I don't care about the money -- once you've flown cross-country to watch hockey the nickle and dime stuff doesn't phase you.  I just want dependability from a service that I had no use in being privatized.

(4) Who cares?  4 point weekend! :-D

[jtwcornell91]

Greg wrote:

(1) This is a problem with RN, not with Cornell athletics (other than the original decision to use RN, which is now spilled milk).

(2) We need the correct tech support contact info so that if/when this happens again we can bug the right people.  I hope nobody gave Laura and those folks anything other than a heads-up that there was a problem, since she is only trying to help.

I think it is appropriate to make the Athletic Department aware every time one of these problems comes up, since I have yet to hear them admit that they cocked things up royally by signing up with RealNetworks.

Also, I have yet to see anything that says how long Cornell is committed to RealNetworks.  Remember how we all thought the ECAC had a multi-year deal with Lake Placid?

[redice]

I'm sorry to hear all of the difficulties that you've been having.   I think  you can now understand why I was  unwilling to give these a**holes (RN) my credit card info.   In October, I asked RN enough questions to determine that they were all about getting my money and NOT necessarily assuring that I receive the product that I paid for.   Now, I fully understand RN  wanting to  get their  payments out of my credit card account.   It guarantees that they get my money.  If they actually sent me a bill and I had to send  them  a check, I might withhold payment when they didn't provide the goods.  They wouldn't want that now, would they?

[Ken71]

From my warped point of view (as an Ithaca local who doesn't HAVE to have the "service" to hear Adam's broadcasts of games), the problem isn't limited just to those who signed up with CP/RN and the rights they lost when they did so.  To me, the issue is the excellent service and fast response we ALL lost when the AD signed up with CP/RN in the first place.

When there were problems with the old systems, Mark and Age were easily found and fast to react.  With some initial financial boost from the "official" group of boosters and further support from a considerable number of other boosters,  Cornell Hockey fans raised the bar on services available (audio AND video) and on continuing improvements.  We ALL were snubbed and denied the benefits of efforts of which we were justly proud, when the AD decided to grab the (highly tarnished) "gold" and dishonor years of efforts and accomplishments.  Mark, Age and their supporters invested their time, talents, and money to serve the interests of Cornell Hockey and fans.  Then AD fell for a sales pitch, signed away our ability to enjoy the technology we had in place, and screwed us ALL in the process.  

I remember the bumper sticker in the movie, "The President's Analyst" -
   We don't care.  We don't have to.
   We're the Phone Company.

I would expect that attitude from RN.  I didn't expect it from the AD.

Ken '71

[RedAR]

Seems to me that one of the reasons that the AD switched to RN was so that they would not have to address any of the problems and glitches that are inevitably associated with the technology.  In other words, they wanted to make their lives easier at the expense of the experience/convenience of those who used the service.

Despite the fact that the AD can't really do anything when things go wrong, I think we should continue to fill their in-boxes, voice-mail, etc. whenever things go wrong.  Then at least they can't sit on their asses ignorant of the crap they've forced us into.

Also, keeping a running log of the problems that occur may come in handy in the future.

Just my 2 cents.

[Greg Berge]

> We don't care. We don't have to.
> We're the Phone Company.

James Coburn rocks.

[bigred apple]

Greg wrote:

(4) Who cares?  4 point weekend! :-D

As always, you cut to the core, and focus on the important issues.  

I think everyone knows who the top backstop in the ECAC is now. Yann who?

[cmoberg]

I understand as subscribers to RN we may have no recourse for poor quality, however the AD must have a contract with them too.  I would think there would be a performance clause or two in that contract.  So there is merit in writing to the AD and letting them know how poor the service was on Saturday night.

It is also suprising to me that there is no active monitoring at the broadcast head end.  As far as I can tell, the feed was dead.  Such silence is easy for man or machine to discern.

Chris

[mha]

It's too late for last night, but if this ever happens again while I'm at Lynah and therefore in shoulder-tapping range, feel free to try calling my cell phone [contact info deleted].

If Laura knows there's a problem, there are people she can contact to let them know.

Meantime, no matter what you may think about Laura, Andy, or other involved folks personally, or no matter what you think they think of you, please remember to be civil. Abusive e-mails and phone messages won't help the situation, and they certainly won't inspire anyone to do you, or us, any favors.

[Jim Hyla]

Unfortunately they don't respond to civil discussion either. I wrote them weeks ago, registering my displeasure about the situation. I cc'd the hockey office and heard back from coach Schafer, but he has no control, and I have yet to hear from the AD's office.

That's the point, they act like they don't care. Now maybe they do care, but we have no indication that they do. So what are we to do. I've already said I won't contribute and can't wait till I get a solicitation phone call.

[Al DeFlorio]

Took nearly six weeks to get a nothing response from Brenner to my email to Noel.  Bush league for sure. ::worry::