Separate ushers-vs.-fans game thread?

[Jim Hyla]

[quote BCrespi][quote kaelistus]facism? I'm not sure if you're using the right word here. How about draconian? That's a much better word.[/quote]

Fine then. Insert oppressive -ism of your choice.  You get the point. The only -ism we dealt with in Natural Resources was "environmentalism" and that's definitely a made-up word, I don't care what anybody says.[/quote]But then again I can't think of any word that hasn't been made-up.:-D

[bandrews37]

After going to the basketball game tonight (crappy Cornell loss), I've seen enough to call bullshit on this whole "Nazi-esque" usher problem. First off, I've been at every game this season, and never once had a problem with any usher anywhere in the place. I know most of them if not by name, then by face, and they recognize me, and we usually say hi, or talk about the game.

Secondly, at the basketball game, I saw and heard several people yelling some various opposing player sucks. At a basketball game, that's far easier to tell when the place is empty, and it echos around the gym. On top of that, everyone's (least) favorite AD was sitting no more than 20 feet away and didn't even flinch.

My thought: people aren't being persecuted for saying "sucks" but rather something far more obscene. I don't doubt people are being thrown out - it's more like the kid who gets doing something bad at school, but not being completely honest with his parent when he gets home about just how serious it is.

I've said it before: you can be supportive of the team and make the place a hostile environment for opponents without being stupid - a foreign concept around these parts.

[gatitita '05]

I just figured I'd mention that theyre not all bad.. the usher that was standing next to me admitted that if we snuck extra people in or were swearing, as long as it wasnt blatant or stupid (he told me about someone saying f**k with him standing RIGHT next to her), or if people dont complain (about space) he really wouldnt make it a problem.  he would deal with problems there arise, but isnt going to cause any!  we need more like him!

[Dpperk29]

[quote bandrews37]
My thought: people aren't being persecuted for saying "sucks" but rather something far more obscene. I don't doubt people are being thrown out - it's more like the kid who gets doing something bad at school, but not being completely honest with his parent when he gets home about just how serious it is.

I've said it before: you can be supportive of the team and make the place a hostile environment for opponents without being stupid - a foreign concept around these parts.[/quote]

wow, for once I totally agree. Sucks isn;t bad, not my favorite word, but not bad. just don't be dumb and you'll be fine.

[Dafatone]

I'm very sorry to say this, but you're wrong.  We have a major problem with ushers cracking down on students much more than they used to.

As I've pointed out before, a friend of mine followed Hooper (Wayne State goalie) from section A to D in the 2nd period of Sunday's game.  At the start of the period he yelled Hooper's name repeatedly, and that Hooper couldn't get rid of him.  He didn't swear, or even say "sucks".  He used no language that would warrant a PG rating, let alone anything family unfriendly.  An usher raced over to us, and told him that if he kept it up, he would be tossed.

If things stay like this, Lynah will eventually stop being Lynah.  Many of our recruits list Lynah's atmosphere as a major factor in their decision to come to Cornell.  If we lose that, we're just an Ivy League school in the middle of upstate NY.  Education aside, we don't have much else to draw in recruits.

The more I think about it, the more I think this could actually be a problem for the future of Cornell Hockey.  I hate to sound so drastic, but the ushers are significantly more strict than they were last year, let alone compared to stories I've heard from before my time here.

[saff678]

But it's inconsistency that makes this so difficult. Sure, throw us all out when the third period begins, or when someone goes into the box. But don't throw out two people and say you're enforcing the rule. Don't make it an issue, as you said your usher does, of whether s/he happens to be standing behind you when you let it out. Be consistent, because this weekend I had an usher staring right at me, and instead of keeping it clean in the chants, I just kept my mouth shut, because I'm scared of being made the game's example. That was me and my roommate, in section B, not chanting, and it's two less voices in Lynah.

[RazzBaronZ]

I also disagree with Dpperk29.  They are cracking down on people being LOUD.  I'm in A and during Dartmouth I looked at the usher while I cheered.  She was staring at me.  She saw my lips and knew exactly what I was saying.  So I was being loud and getting into the game.  So what?  I didn't curse, I didn't do anything wrong, and I had her single me out and talk to me (she then told me to "tell my friends" as if that's my job and not hers).

I don't care that she did.  I'm going to continue to be my loud self because that's who I am.  But other people in my section who saw that might be afraid to cheer now.  It's a bad thing, and it's nothing like it's been for the past 3 years I've been here.

[scannon]

OK, I sit right around Razzbaron and BMac and I really don't think the ushers in A are that bad. I've talked to both of them at length and they have said repeatedly that sucks is allowed and I have not seen anyone being removed who has only been loud.

It is true that they stare at the crowd a lot but that is their job and they will naturally look at those of us who are louder more than everyone else. Moreover, I talked to one at the Dartmouth game and she said that she had been told off for watching the game too much the night before so she's been extra careful to watch the crowd.

I also heard her tell you to tell your friends ot to swear but I thought that she also said that what you were doing was ok but any more would get you thrown out (I may be wrong on that, you know better than me).

On the whole, the atmosphere has become more oppressive but I seriously doubt that they will kick anyone out except for swearing, just ignore them when they stare at you or better yet, smile and say hi.::burnout::

[Jacob 03]

[quote Dafatone]If things stay like this, Lynah will eventually stop being Lynah.  Many of our recruits list Lynah's atmosphere as a major factor in their decision to come to Cornell.  If we lose that, we're just an Ivy League school in the middle of upstate NY.  Education aside, we don't have much else to draw in recruits.

The more I think about it, the more I think this could actually be a problem for the future of Cornell Hockey.  I hate to sound so drastic...[/quote]

Then don't.  There's no need for hyperbole.  This recurring discussion used to be about some students and ushers accusing each other of egregious behavior.  Now it's become a bunch of Walmart greeters turning the undergrads into the Lynah Fearful?  Really?  Your fun is ruined because of them?

And a potential student who happens to play hockey isn't going to consider Ithaca if the crowd isn't the same?  Good riddance.  I know we repeatedly get these stories about players choosing Cornell because of the Lynah crowd, and that's gotta be some nice extra validation to all us fans.  Those players sure are great- saying what they're supposed to say and what all the other players before them have said.  I'm sure that for some of them, if they were on the fence about two schools, might have even tipped Cornell's way because of what they witnessed at a game.  But if they aren't sold by the coach, the teammates they meet, the history of the team, the non-Lynah parts of campus, the mere "education," every aspect of Cornell except what you're yelling Friday and Saturday nights...if they don't think that's enough...they can have a fine time at almost sixty other Division I hockey schools.  And if any player, because a crowd of fans are feeling more hassled than usual, referred to Cornell as "just an Ivy League school in the middle of upstate NY," I'd just as soon spit on him as cheer his name.

[Dpperk29]

well, test this theory by being loud, but only cheering for cornell. don't say anything about the other team. Don't say anything about how bad the other team is. Just support your team in a loud positive manner. I'd be willing to bet that no one will say anything

[Dafatone]

[quote Jacob 03]And a potential student who happens to play hockey isn't going to consider Ithaca if the crowd isn't the same?  Good riddance.  I know we repeatedly get these stories about players choosing Cornell because of the Lynah crowd, and that's gotta be some nice extra validation to all us fans.[/quote]

Maybe the stories about the crowd's draw are just nice things that players say, and maybe they're true.  Either way, there's no justification for some of the ushers' behavior, unless you don't think fans in Lynah should be loud and pestersome.  Loud and positive is fine, and believe me, I'm all for cheering on our team pretty much every single minute, but harassing the other team, at least in a family-friendly manner, should be allowed.

[imafrshmn]

[quote Jacob 03][quote Dafatone]If things stay like this, Lynah will eventually stop being Lynah.  Many of our recruits list Lynah's atmosphere as a major factor in their decision to come to Cornell.  If we lose that, we're just an Ivy League school in the middle of upstate NY.  Education aside, we don't have much else to draw in recruits.

The more I think about it, the more I think this could actually be a problem for the future of Cornell Hockey.  I hate to sound so drastic...[/quote]

Then don't.  There's no need for hyperbole.  This recurring discussion used to be about some students and ushers accusing each other of egregious behavior.  Now it's become a bunch of Walmart greeters turning the undergrads into the Lynah Fearful?  Really?  Your fun is ruined because of them?

And a potential student who happens to play hockey isn't going to consider Ithaca if the crowd isn't the same?  Good riddance.  I know we repeatedly get these stories about players choosing Cornell because of the Lynah crowd, and that's gotta be some nice extra validation to all us fans.  Those players sure are great- saying what they're supposed to say and what all the other players before them have said.  I'm sure that for some of them, if they were on the fence about two schools, might have even tipped Cornell's way because of what they witnessed at a game.  But if they aren't sold by the coach, the teammates they meet, the history of the team, the non-Lynah parts of campus, the mere "education," every aspect of Cornell except what you're yelling Friday and Saturday nights...if they don't think that's enough...they can have a fine time at almost sixty other Division I hockey schools.  And if any player, because a crowd of fans are feeling more hassled than usual, referred to Cornell as "just an Ivy League school in the middle of upstate NY," I'd just as soon spit on him as cheer his name.[/quote]

Agreed on all points.  However, this is not to say that the crackdown policy is making games less fun and diffusing the boisterous spirit of the crowd and what should feel like being part of a riot.  It sure feels nice to experience a game where fans have as much adrenaline going as the players and where bloodthirstiness is tangible.  Call me classless, but this is one of the main reasons I love games.

[BMac]

Scannon, I agree that they seem less likely to arbitrarily throw us out for loudness, but it's stories like the one of someone following Hooper around and just shouting his name loudly for a reprimand that scare me.

Side note: I, and I think everybody else on this forum agree that profanity has no place in Lynah. I'm glad we can agree on that. All we want is the right to be (creatively/sarcastically) obnoxious to the other team, without fear of expulsion.

[Dafatone]

[quote BMac]Side note: I, and I think everybody else on this forum agree that profanity has no place in Lynah. I'm glad we can agree on that. All we want is the right to be (creatively/sarcastically) obnoxious to the other team, without fear of expulsion.[/quote]

Well said.  I can't speak for all the ushers, but one of the ones in D is way too harsh.  Then again, there's a batch of kids in front of me that are constantly yelling at the usher, so I can understand why he might be in a bad mood.

[billhoward]

[quote RazzBaronZ]Not that we aren't doing it, but can everybody be as loud as possible the entire game and not give a crap next time to see what happens?  No cursing, no anything.  Just be the loud guy(s)/gal(s) in your section.[/quote]

Good if you could convince the entire section to be extra loud the whole game ... but is it really going to happen? What about the opposite - one game of silence, or one period of silence, except polite clapping if Cornell scores. Especially if it was the sections around the bench, the team would notice and perhaps wonder.

Prior to, what, WWII, the U.S. military had a court martial offense called silent insolence or silent insubordination, which was a catchall for wiseasses who didn't fall into any other category. That's what it would be here, too. You all would be on double secret probation so fast you wouldn't know what hit you.

BTW: How many people (maybe alums?) have spoken with ushers and tried to understand what they're being told to do and how enthusiastic they are, or aren't, about doing this. I bet they're hockey fans, too. It's not much money and it's a pretty small power trip, so it must be the hockey.