Polls 10/16

KeithK · October 18, 2006, 02:04:24 PM

[quote CowbellGuy]20? Even with the defensive depletion, you don't think we belong in the top third of college hockey? I think that's a bit extreme. I'd say around 15 is about right, but there are too many question marks right now. And with any injuries to what's left of the defense, they might start dressing traffic cones.[/quote]I might go with #20 rather than #15, but it's hard to imagine ranking Cornell lower than that right now. Even with our losses and the injuries there's still a lot of talent on this team, which should put us well above a majority of the teams in D1. (Edit: on paper anyway.)

...all of which shows the absurdity of ranking 20 or even 15 teams out of 58 (?).

ebilmes · October 18, 2006, 06:31:04 PM

It's worthless to be arguing before Cornell plays one game, but though I'm nowhere close to being a college hockey expert, I think there are too many question marks to put us in the top 20. If we beat Robert Morris and RIT easily the first weekend of the season, and it seems like the freshmen are playing well and that we have solid goaltending, then we should definitely be getting top 15 votes. However, I think this team has too much left to prove to be there already.

Jim Hyla · October 18, 2006, 07:03:51 PM

Aside from the fact that we haven't been able to see a game yet, why do we care about this at all? It's not like football where your poll rankings matter for the BCS. If we do well we'll get there in the end. We may not like the formula for picking teams at the end, but at least it doesn't depend upon how high you started in the polls at the beginning of the season. For example, if Michigan were not to play OSU, and they and USC were to all finish undefeated, then a team starting lower (UM) has a harder time finishing in the top two than those who started at the top.

KeithK · October 18, 2006, 07:05:46 PM

[quote Jim Hyla]Aside from the fact that we haven't been able to see a game yet, why do we care about this at all?[/quote]You answered your own question, Jim. It's just something to talk about.

Will · October 18, 2006, 07:11:16 PM

[quote KeithK][quote Jim Hyla]Aside from the fact that we haven't been able to see a game yet, why do we care about this at all?[/quote]You answered your own question, Jim. It's just something to talk about.[/quote]
There's also an argument to be made for poll rankings playing a role in the recruitment process. Higher rankings lead to better recruits, presumedly. But I think that's a minor consideration. It's mostly about pointless bragging rights.

Drew · October 18, 2006, 07:40:40 PM

[quote Will][quote KeithK][quote Jim Hyla]Aside from the fact that we haven't been able to see a game yet, why do we care about this at all?[/quote]You answered your own question, Jim. It's just something to talk about.[/quote]
There's also an argument to be made for poll rankings playing a role in the recruitment process. Higher rankings lead to better recruits, presumedly. But I think that's a minor consideration. It's mostly about pointless bragging rights.[/quote]

I agree with Will. Seeing your school in the top 15 or 20 is great publicity for the school and definitely helps in the recruiting process. I am sure recruits are looking at it (and schools sell it)like "Hey, I am being recruited by one of the top 15 or 20 ranked colleges in the U.S." as opposed to the top 20 of 58.
Coming from a "regional" school of 2800 I will take any national exposure I can get.
Cheers!
Drew

P.S. Any restrictions to me parking an RV in a cornell parking lot overnight, if I come up for the Tech/Red game?

Jim Hyla · October 18, 2006, 08:19:08 PM

[quote Drew][quote Will][quote KeithK][quote Jim Hyla]Aside from the fact that we haven't been able to see a game yet, why do we care about this at all?[/quote]You answered your own question, Jim. It's just something to talk about.[/quote]
There's also an argument to be made for poll rankings playing a role in the recruitment process. Higher rankings lead to better recruits, presumedly. But I think that's a minor consideration. It's mostly about pointless bragging rights.[/quote]

I agree with Will. Seeing your school in the top 15 or 20 is great publicity for the school and definitely helps in the recruiting process. I am sure recruits are looking at it (and schools sell it)like "Hey, I am being recruited by one of the top 15 or 20 ranked colleges in the U.S." as opposed to the top 20 of 58.
Coming from a "regional" school of 2800 I will take any national exposure I can get.
Cheers!
Drew

P.S. Any restrictions to me parking an RV in a cornell parking lot overnight, if I come up for the Tech/Red game?[/quote]OK, but come on. Do you really think how a team is ranked at the beginning of the season would influence a recruit? Maybe the end of the season, or whether the were in the NCAA's, but now?::rolleyes::

redhair34 · October 18, 2006, 08:25:02 PM

[quote ebilmes] However, I think this team has too much left to prove to be there already.[/quote]

What teams have proven much of anything at this point in the year?

I'd venture a guess that especially in the pre/early season the media/coaches rank teams based on past performance, reputation, and the likelihood of improvement or decline. The team finished in the top 8 in the country the last two seasons--only two other teams in the country can say that (BC and ND). The team played the eventual National Champions to a gut wrenching 3OT loss. Over the past half dozen or so years, the team has proven more on the national level than the other ECAC teams combined. But, yeah we a lot of question marks--even more so than other teams...Will the freshman assimilate quickly? Will a respectable goaltender emerge? Will we make up for losses on the blueline? But until we know the answers and it becomes clear that the team is on the decline, Cornell should still be considered a top team.

Drew · October 18, 2006, 09:01:33 PM

[quote Jim Hyla][quote Drew][quote Will][quote KeithK][quote Jim Hyla]Aside from the fact that we haven't been able to see a game yet, why do we care about this at all?[/quote]You answered your own question, Jim. It's just something to talk about.[/quote]
There's also an argument to be made for poll rankings playing a role in the recruitment process. Higher rankings lead to better recruits, presumedly. But I think that's a minor consideration. It's mostly about pointless bragging rights.[/quote]

I agree with Will. Seeing your school in the top 15 or 20 is great publicity for the school and definitely helps in the recruiting process. I am sure recruits are looking at it (and schools sell it)like "Hey, I am being recruited by one of the top 15 or 20 ranked colleges in the U.S." as opposed to the top 20 of 58.
Coming from a "regional" school of 2800 I will take any national exposure I can get.
Cheers!
Drew

P.S. Any restrictions to me parking an RV in a cornell parking lot overnight, if I come up for the Tech/Red game?[/quote]OK, but come on. Do you really think how a team is ranked at the beginning of the season would influence a recruit? Maybe the end of the season, or whether the were in the NCAA's, but now?::rolleyes::[/quote]

Jim, seeing that we have already recruited 3 players for the class of 2008, I think it does matter. Schools recruit all year long, not just at the end of the season.

David Harding · October 19, 2006, 01:42:28 AM

[quote Drew]
P.S. Any restrictions to me parking an RV in a cornell parking lot overnight, if I come up for the Tech/Red game?[/quote]Cornell parking regulations: http://www.parking.cornell.edu/pdf/Rules_Regs_2005.pdf See section 5.1.8

ugarte · October 19, 2006, 10:21:32 AM

[quote redhair34][quote ebilmes] However, I think this team has too much left to prove to be there already.[/quote]
What teams have proven much of anything at this point in the year? [/quote]Teams that have most of their players returning have a performance record. We lost so much to graduation and the pros that we have more to prove than most.

ebilmes · October 19, 2006, 11:05:41 AM

[quote ugarte]Teams that have most of their players returning have a performance record. We lost so much to graduation and the pros that we have more to prove than most.[/quote]

This was pretty much what I was trying to get at. Last year, with McKee, Moulson, Sasha, OB, etc. returning, it was easier to justify a higher preseason ranking because it was already clear what a lot of the players were capable of accomplishing.

redhair34 · October 19, 2006, 12:14:17 PM

[quote ugarte]Teams that have most of their players returning have a performance record. We lost so much to graduation and the pros that we have more to prove than most.[/quote]

That's a fair point. I just think that the performance record of our coach, our system(s), and the players we return is strong enought to justify our ranking.

KeithK · October 19, 2006, 01:22:32 PM

[quote Jim Hyla]OK, but come on. Do you really think how a team is ranked at the beginning of the season would influence a recruit? Maybe the end of the season, or whether the were in the NCAA's, but now?::rolleyes::[/quote]I agree that the ranking of schools for a week or two in October is only marginally important. It's possible that some 16 year old potential recruit gets his first impression of Cornell in October for some reason and thus is influenced by the ranking this month. But that's marginal.

However, the polls tend not to be objective based on this moment in time - they tend to have a lot of memory. If we start in the top 15 it's a lot more likely that we'll be in the top 15 at the end of November. A decent start (say 4-1-1) would tend to keep us there because it meets pollsters' expectations. If we start out of the rankings then the same record probably wouldn't be enough to get us back into the rankings. So I think preseason ranking does matter a little bit, at least insofar as we value poll ranking for publicity anyway.