ELynah Forum

Just putting it on record:

Cornell took down the #3, #1, and #2 regular season finishers back-to-back-to-back to claim the second Whitelaw Cup in a row!

THAT'S ALL! LET'S GO RED!

I just wanted to warm your hearts by sharing the following picture.  

That is all, enjoy your evening.  

Tonight's win was very relieving.  Cheers to everyone here on the great and well-deserved win over a very well-coached Union team!  Rick Bennett certainly does an amazing job each year with the resources he's given and makes the maximum of everything he has!  Honestly, I kinda wish he got the BU job a year ago because that would certainly make the ECAC a much easier conference to play in!  But, the better team is moving on to Lake Placid and I'm excited to see what Cornell can pull off!  Hopefully (red-hot) Brown doesn't give us trouble like last year's game against what was then a red-hot Princeton team...

Sorry for the random question, but does anyone know where I can find a current list of the songs that the band plays?  I cant get some of those songs out of my head.  In particular one of the songs they played tonight was released not long ago and is more of a catchy techno/dance song.  I saw a Spotify playlist somewhere of some of the songs they play but it didn't include the song I have in mind.  I love that they're playing some newer stuff in addition to the older and more classic songs!

Sorry in advance if this is the wrong place to post this question!  

Does anyone know what time tomorrow morning season tickets for students go on sale?  I just want to make sure I get the good seats I get every year!  

Thanks in advance!

Is it possible we could have a new coach this coming year?  Schafer's youngest child is graduating from Cornell this spring and this might be the time for him to retire...  

I'm NOT saying it's going to happen, but all things considered, I could see it happen.

Shoot... I wish we really landed one of those many chances we had to score.  

I sure will miss this very talented senior class.  They improved a lot over the course of their time here at Cornell and have a bright future ahead of them.

Quote from: ursusminor

Quote from: TimV

Quote from: Trotsky

Quote from: LynahFaithfulIf we were to look laterally, who would we consider from other ECAC (or Hockey East) programs?  Is it critical that the coach is a Cornell alum?  If so, is Ken Dryden another option or is he invested enough in Canadian politics that he's out of the question?  I also mentioned Rick Bennett (Union HC) and I didn't get much of a reaction back...

I think Bennett's just fine where he is.  I don't know why he'd take the job.  (Much like Leaman at Providence).  Even though Union is more exclusive than most schools, it's still easier to get a guy in there than at an Ivy.

I like Bennett.  I like his intensity, I like his style of play, I like his recruits, who have been great academically.  I love it that RPI foams at the mouth at the mere mention of his name.  He'd do fine here- and would come if the price was right because of the fan support, donor support, bigger rink, and better brand. I'd love  to see him here.  Don't know if he could live with Andy Noel, though.

Where is the foams-at-the-mouth emoticon?

Personally, I am ashamed to live on the same planet as Bennett. I was also ashamed to be member of the same species as he, but I heard a DNA test proved he is a Neanderthal. :-D

Why don't you like Bennett?  What's the strong dislike rooted in?  

Quote from: RichH

Quote from: LynahFaithfulIn his first three years as head coach he won three ECAC titles, goes to a couple of frozen fours, an NCAA regional final, wins a national championship, and has a 19-2 postseason record.  Last year was obviously the worst year in his career as head coach

Right there. Let's think about that. His first three years, he wins ECAC titles. He was handed a team that had won 20 games each of the previous 2 seasons. Now his 4th year in, (cough cough a full 4-year recruiting cycle) Union barely finishes above .500. Leaman, the guy who had built up Union to that powerhouse level, then takes over an 8-18-8 team and in the same 4-year period turns them into National Champions. Who has the golden touch?

I'm not saying Bennett is a bad coach. I just think he was handed the keys to the kitchen when the pot was already boiling. (Good god, that's terrible. Is that even a real metaphor?)  Coaching is about on-ice performance AND recruiting. Let's see Bennett have success with his own recruits.

Contrast this with 1990s-era Schafer. He took a team that had won an aggregate total of 25 games over three seasons and immediately reeled off two league crowns. Really, it was out of nowhere. But then his first full recruiting cycle turned in a 12-15-4 season (this is where Bennett is now). That was his last losing season for 14 years. Bennett could do this too, and having a national title under your belt has to be a wonderful recruiting tool. I'm curious to see.

Valid point, however going by the 4-year recruiting cycle theory you brought up, technically the first season of having ALL his own recruits will be this season.  At the end of this season, I think then we can analyze his recruiting capability under the 4-year cycle  concept.  Also, i would like to reiterate that despite having mediocre recruiting classes, Bennett has done very well with the guys he's received, which impresses me a lot.  Taking that with "a truck load of salt", the next few years will be very telling of his ability to produce results with guys that (solely) he has recruited and brought in and I personally believe that he will have continued and sustained sucess.  

I sense people going both ways on considering Bennett and people leaning more towards no regarding Nieuwendyk... but who else would be the answer?

Quote from: Trotsky

Quote from: LynahFaithfulAnd when you say radical change, what do you have in mind?  Maybe give an example of a coach that would mean a radical change and explain how?

When I say radical change I mean an entirely new philosophy.  This also likely means bringing in someone from outside the program since Cornellians of the past 20 years both self-selected and then were trained in Mike's style.

I had nobody in particular in mind, but perhaps a Keith Allain type of coach.  Yale was firewagon when they won the title; now they have become a much more defensive-oriented team given their personnel. I would like to see that flexibility, where you go get the best players you can and then craft your system to their strengths, rather than having a set system and then looking for players who can plug in.

However, I love Mike (PBUH) and if he wants to stay 20 more years AFAIC we owe him that much.  He saved Cornell hockey and we should never forget that.

Oh, I see.  I believe deep-down that Rick Bennett would be able to bring this "entirely new philosophy" you speak of to the rink.  Look at the guys he recruits and mediocre facilities/setup he's currently equipped with at Union and it's amazing (to me at least) all of the success on the national level he's had the last few years. He takes what he's got and turns it into something great.  

Quote from: TimVAndy- perhaps under pressure from above- fired the successful alumnus coach of his most successful men's sport.  I don't trust that Andy would handle a post-game altercation with opposing players and coaches  (short version) and (long version) as patiently as the Union AD.

And before one of you jokers suggests it, although Seth Appert may soon become available, he's not the offensive messiah we need.

Oh, yeah... I forgot about that.  I believe firing DeLuca (over hazing that was going on among the lacrosse team's players) was a LARGE mistake and many of us are beginning to realize that recently.  I believe that should have been handled more with the players than through the coach.  I also recognize that he might not tolerate post-game altercations well, but look at how he tolerated Schafer's not-so-nice comments regarding Quinnipiac last year.  I believe that if Noel wants to have a pretty successful hockey program and Bennett wants to be at the head of the Cornell team, the two will make it work.

Quote from: TimVI like Bennett.  I like his intensity, I like his style of play, I like his recruits, who have been great academically.  I love it that RPI foams at the mouth at the mere mention of his name.  He'd do fine here- and would come if the price was right because of the fan support, donor support, bigger rink, and better brand. I'd love  to see him here.  Don't know if he could live with Andy Noel, though.

As an eastern New York native with many college hockey fans back home, I hear close to nothing negative about Bennett.  I also like his intensity, his never-satisfied mindset, and his ability to produce such great teams for a ~2500 person college.  In his first three years as head coach he won three ECAC titles, goes to a couple of frozen fours, an NCAA regional final, wins a national championship, and has a 19-2 postseason record.  Last year was obviously the worst year in his career as head coach, but the recent success he's had as a coach surely isn't minimized.  My understanding is that he targets recruiting the guys that are not as highly sought out by other schools and emphasizes very sound/fundamental hockey.  RPI has truly had their hands full with him at the helm because of all of the success Union's had (especially in the "rivalry" among the two schools).  

I feel the same way as TimV - If the price was right and there was enough support, I would love to see him here at Cornell.  With a more historic program, being a better school, and with the ability to recruit better players, I feel as though he would thrive here.  Can someone fill me in with what the issue with Andy Noel might be?  I don't know much about him as an AD.

Quote from: Trotsky

Quote from: LynahFaithfulIf we were to look laterally, who would we consider from other ECAC (or Hockey East) programs?  Is it critical that the coach is a Cornell alum?  If so, is Ken Dryden another option or is he invested enough in Canadian politics that he's out of the question?  I also mentioned Rick Bennett (Union HC) and I didn't get much of a reaction back...

I think Bennett's just fine where he is.  I don't know why he'd take the job.  (Much like Leaman at Providence).  Even though Union is more exclusive than most schools, it's still easier to get a guy in there than at an Ivy.

I do not think it is important to be a Cornell alum.  It certainly helps to be familiar with the Ivy League's sensitivities and mission.  Bringing in a guy from say Minnesota or even Michigan would not work here.

If we ever make a change I kind of hope it's a radical change, otherwise I don't see the logic of moving on from Mike.

Very true.  I forgot about recruiting restrictions the Ivy league has that I'm sure Bennett is doing fine without having to deal with.  And personally, I agree regarding alumni - it's nice but not critical and in the grand scheme of things, I don't believe it matters all that much...

And when you say radical change, what do you have in mind?  Maybe give an example of a coach that would mean a radical change and explain how?

Quote from: underskillwhy Nieuwendyk? I get he's a big name, but he's got no coaching experience, and I don't want a Ted Donato situation, with a famous alum you can't fire if need be.

Valid point.  However, I believe within a couple years he would be able to attract very good assistant coaches and also players via recruiting just because of his big name.  You do pose a good point about not being able to fire notable alumni though, and I'm not sure I have something to address that concern.  The only thing that could work is signing him for a year or two at first and continually sign him for years to come, contingent on the team's performance...

Quote from: TrotskyNieuwy is also an asset to Cornell simply by being a big name out there in the NHL (and one who, AFAIK, is very highly thought of and well liked).

The list of program alumni who have had success somewhere as coach / assistant coach is pretty short: Casey Jones, Shaun Hannah, Topher Scott, maybe Karl Williams.

Among ex-Schafer assistants are Scott Garrow (assistant at Princeton), Brent Brekke (Miami associate coach), Jamie Russell (Elmira head coach), and Mark Taylor (Hobart head coach).

Yes, there are not many names that come to my mind that I would want at the helm of our program...some of these assistant coaches I would be weary of naming head coach right off the bat.  If we were to look laterally, who would we consider from other ECAC (or Hockey East) programs?  Is it critical that the coach is a Cornell alum?  If so, is Ken Dryden another option or is he invested enough in Canadian politics that he's out of the question?  I also mentioned Rick Bennett (Union HC) and I didn't get much of a reaction back...

Quote from: 06Cowboy13It's a shame many of you armchair quarterbacks have taken one of the best coaches in the country for granted and are itching for a change. The grass is always greener on the other side, but sometimes its painted green. He has maintained and built a foundation for consistent winning tradition for the Big Red and should be given a 5 year extension.

I appreciate you being optimistic (even going as far to call many of us armchair quaterbacks) but this is not realistic.  I am not going to diagree that he is a great coach, but the last four years have been continuously downhill and to continue that for another 5 years would potentially be disastrous.  

Quote from: 06Cowboy13If Mike and his staff get us a few snipers and a Brian Ferlin type forward with this years class or next, we are taking the ECAC's in March and maybe even going to the frozen four. I guess its so easy to recruit to an IVY League School these days according to some of y'all. Keep up the good work Mike, just a fluke last year!

This or next year's recruiting class will maybe lead us to the frozen four?  Call me crazy, but I'll believe it when I see it.  When's the last time we made it that far...?  (13 years ago)

Quote from: TowerroadYou can take the position, like many, that his long term record justifies a substantial extension but there is a reasonable and cogent question about the current trend and performance. The head coach is neither pope nor potentate with life tenure. He is an employee and like all employees there are performance expectations. A sizable portion of the posters here (not a majority) think that their performance expectations are not being met. While their opinions, as well supporters count for little there is room for healthy questioning.

I agree with this and while I want to keep Schafer and honor what he's done for the program, I question the latest trend of the teams he's produced the last few years.  Honestly, part of me fears getting a new coach because for all I know, the team could fall apart even worse than things have been with him.  That's why I have posted asking who it would be if we do choose to sign someone new and aside from Nieuwendyk, I dont have a solid answer to who might be able to work.

Quote from: TrotskyAbsent any inside knowledge, I can't imagine he'd want the job.  Ithaca's pretty and Mike's a friend, but we're small potatoes compared to what Joe has been doing.

Very true.  However, I like to think though the head coaching position (at Cornell) is a pretty big title that many would like to have, potentially including NHL/Cornell alums like Nieuwendyk.  

Is it likely that the athletic director will want to have an alum at the helm of the program?  If not, is Rick Bennett (Union HC) a worthy option?

Quote from: RichHThe first four games are pretty low priority which is nice compared to other recent seasons, I agree. I can see playing around with setting the lines for those games, too. Hopefully those solidify early so the lines aren't still being juggled around in February.  So often, the early games take on a higher importance with our limited OOC in respect to having hope for At-Large bid chances. Last season, we had to go on the road for a tough series vs. UNO right out of the gate, who had been playing for nearly a month. Now a home-and-home with Niagara followed immediately by a string of league games may be a good thing.

Good discussion. It helped get my head really thinking about the upcoming season. Ned knows, I have had tons of patience with this team, but I really need to start seeing more scoring...please.

Yes, I agree that recent seasons have been brutal to start out. The first four games should be easy and worst case scenario, one of the four should end in a tie.  I think those first four (and the Princeton) games are critical to starting momentum because the Quinnipiac game the following night and the Colgate games are PIVOTAL.  Quinnipiac was good last season and will be coming off of playing 7 games including some strong out of conference teams and Colgate will be worse.  Disregarding exhibition games, the first game we play against them will be our 5th and their 9th and the level they will be playing at is my biggest fear. Their initial strength of schedule is no joke - Mercyhurst and Northeastern weren't bad last year, then they play two against RIT (who did well in the NCAA tournament), two games against Providence (the reigning champions), a game against Quinnipiac (consistently been a good team in the recent past), and then what I would call an "easier" game against Princeton before taking us on.

You mentioned lines and I think it's critical that lines are established and kept consistent.  Last year the injury card (excuse) kept getting pulled and was credited with causing the line scrambling. Not to say injuries are insignificant, but as you mentioned, even in February lines were juggled and the lack of chemistry was evident on both offense and defense.  

I have tons of patience with this team too, but I would like to see more scoring as well.  I think that if last season we didn't win the Harvard and Yale games at Lynah, one of the Denver games, and the MSG game last year my patience would be wearing EXTREMELY thin.  I'm also enjoying this discussion for making me think a lot about next season and the more participation from others, the better!

Schafer's contract expires after next season and it'll be interesting to see how things are at the end and the direction the program goes in if they choose to go with someone else...

Cheers to next season!

Quote from: RichH

Quote from: LynahFaithfulWhat I said above is a good transition into replying to this, but first I must ask: Are we talking about the same hockey team?

Correct me if I am wrong, but from everything I know, Schafer since being head coach has always promoted a physical, defense-first, and conservative style of play which might not be pure "Dump and Chase" hockey but is a close descendant (Cornell under Schafer has consistently low-scoring games).  I agree that defense has historically been built from the net outward, but I certainly would not say "offense is focused on puck-possession".  In fact, Cornell hockey alum, Ken Dryden, even criticizes the "Dump and Chase" style of hockey in his book The Game refuting many aspects of Schafer-run Cornell teams who have employed such aspects.  From talking to current Cornell players, they note the conservative style of hockey they play here compared to their previous junior level teams and most other NCAA teams who revolve MUCH MORE around puck possession/handling.  Referencing what I said above, having bigger players (makes Dump and Chase easier to run and) enables an easier time winning the physical battles, hoping to thrash the defense around in order to create scoring chances rather than intricate passing, skating, and puck handling.  This is exactly why, as you noted, "Schafer has a history of successful 'big men'" (especially forwards) to enable a physical play-style.  

I am not saying that Cornell hockey plays pure Dump and Chase 100% of the time and doesn't change their puck penetration method based on the opponent, but when it comes to Dump and Chase in college hockey, I would say Cornell certainly employs it more than most.  Critics of Cornell hockey (and people advocating for a new hockey coach) criticize Cornell's play-style and it's lack of adaptation in today's world of college hockey because of everything I described above.

First, I'll reiterate my point: to say a dump-and-chase is the "signature" strategy of Schafer-run teams is disingenuous. Cornell, for the better part of 15 years, has focused on puck possession as the means to run offenses. I would argue the "signature" strategy of his offense is based on setting up a sustained cycle low in the corners. How that end is achieved varies with the skills of the players on hand. Two seasons ago, the most employed strategy to do this was to "let Brian Ferlin carry it in alone (tm)" because he was simply good at using his body positioning (and size) to protect and move the puck.  The most successful and talented lines have had no problem running a skate-and-pass effort. As you correctly mentioned, many forwards at Cornell have employed their superior size and physicality to muscle the puck deep into the offensive corners. But there's simply a number of Cornell players who have lacked the puckhandling skills needed, so they employ the dump and chase to achieve the goal.

Now you mentioned Dryden. I've read The Game, and I assure you that Mike Schafer isn't mentioned. When Dryden discusses teams that dump-and-chase, it was to point out that they simply weren't anywhere close to the skill of his Canadien teams. You dump-and-chase because you can't match up to the skills of the opposing defense. As Cornell's profile and reputation has risen over the years (as well as the caliber of ECAC teams, much to the chagrin of some vocal posters on this forum), they simply have seen a higher quality of opponent. We're playing teams like BU, Denver, and North Dakota more often as opposed to Sacred Hearts and Canisiuses of the OOC landscape. We have been seeing a lot more skillful defenses than in the past. When Cornell is outmatched by other teams, they dump-and-chase more. When they are outmatching opponents, they don't.

I'm willing to entertain criticisms in a couple aspects: 1) Recruiting. Why aren't a higher percentage of excellent puckhandlers finding their way here? 2) Is the Sustained Low Cycle strategy right for this team in this era? It worked great for the 2002-2006 squads, but can we mold a methodology to significantly and sustainably increase scoring in a different way given the players we currently have?

I don't know the answer to either.

Very good points.  You made a good point regarding getting the puck into the corners and a couple years ago, this was made possible through Brian Ferlin carrying it in.  Analogously last season, Bardreau did a good portion of that.  Distinctly, I remember this when Cornell scored the third goal against Harvard last year after Bardreau carried it in.  

You concluded with some good questions there that I don't necessarily have answers to either.  I would like to point out though that if he has any new methodology in store for this season, the first four games are relatively low on our priority list and they would not be bad for experimenting with.  If the experimentation goes wrong, he can go back to what he knows works for the remainder of the season.