Cornell vs. Notre Dame

Deserves its own thread.

IL scouting report is very positive about our Big Red. The scout (I assume a coach of another team) says Pannell is the best player in the country. Who am I to argue?

A good sign: the Swami picks Notre Dame

scoop85
A good sign: the Swami picks Notre Dame

Man, I forgot how annoying that website is.

So is anyone else having a hard time enjoying this upcoming game because they are petrified that UMd will hire away Coach T after the season concludes? Or is it just me? I'd like to think that Cornell lax is a good enough gig and that he has an enjoyable enough situation that he wouldn't be lured away, even to an UMd type opportunity, but who knows...

I'm not losing any sleep over it. Jeff has deep Upstate NY roots -- he's a product of West Genesee and Hobart.

It is a different situation than the one that got Pietramala to leave, as he was a Hopkins alumnus and it was his dream job that opened up. I believe that was a "grand slam homerun" in Coach Donahue lingo. Like mnagowski said, Tambroni has upstate NY roots, and has a strong national program here. That said, I can't say it wasn't the first thing that popped into my head when I heard the Cottle news, as a school as big as MD can probably afford to back up the money truck more so than Cornell can if they really want him.

JasonN95
So is anyone else having a hard time enjoying this upcoming game because they are petrified that UMd will hire away Coach T after the season concludes?

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me... no. I figured that the odds were better than 50-50 that Donahue was going to leave after the season but it didn't take away from the run. Worry about the coaching carnival after the season ends.

The move from Pietramila to Tambroni was pretty seamless and I expect Noel to hire a good replacement if Tambroni jumps to Maryland. The record of the football team notwithstanding, he has a good record of bringing in quality coaches.

ugarte

JasonN95
So is anyone else having a hard time enjoying this upcoming game because they are petrified that UMd will hire away Coach T after the season concludes?

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me... no. I figured that the odds were better than 50-50 that Donahue was going to leave after the season but it didn't take away from the run. Worry about the coaching carnival after the season ends.

The move from Pietramila to Tambroni was pretty seamless and I expect Noel to hire a good replacement if Tambroni jumps to Maryland. The record of the football team notwithstanding, he has a good record of bringing in quality coaches.

Hockey and lacrosse differ from basketball and football in that there are no coaches making $1 million in college lacrosse. What's the top amount you can make, $200K, $250K? So a top-notch Ivy coach who goes elsewhere would make a nice percentage increase on his salary but not a multiple.

scoop85
A good sign: the Swami picks Notre Dame

Sometimes a public nuisance or flasher thrives on the attention, so is it worth going back a couple years and seeing which top team won most when picked by the Swami to lose? And is it Navy or pehaps Hopkins that has lost most often when picked to win?

scoop85
Deserves its own thread.

IL scouting report is very positive about our Big Red. The scout (I assume a coach of another team) says Pannell is the best player in the country. Who am I to argue?

Inside Lacrosse
Cornell is a team that is affective in all phases...

Perhaps voice or mannerisms off the field.

I think it's hugely unlikely Tambroni would go anyplace that isn't Syracuse. Even Hobart. He has truly built a great program that is all his own, his family is happy, and the nature of our athletics dept is 180 degrees from Maryland's "Make the playoffs 10 straight years but no championships so you're gone" attitude. Tambroni could be here longer than Richie.

That being said, if Tambroni left or got killed by a snowplow, we have a guy named Ben DeLuca. You may remember him. He was Princeton's first choice when Tierney left. They then had to go to their safety coach from Drexel.

TimV
I think it's hugely unlikely Tambroni would go anyplace that isn't Syracuse.

Despite how well Tambroni has done at Cornell, I'm not sure that'd even be a realistic possibility. Desko had been an assistant at SU for 19 years (!) before getting the job when Roy Simmons Jr. retired, and before that Simmons Jr. had been an assistant coach under his father, so I have to assume they're happy with the way hiring from within has worked out for them; if that's the way they want to go, they've got a couple of experienced options in-house including Simmons III.

First - There's no way Coach T is leaving for this job for all the reasons listed above.

Second - Dave Cottle ('02-10), Dick Edell ('84-'01) and Bud Beardmore ('70-'83) were all native Marylanders ... so i stopped there thinking 40-years was far enough ... they will most definitely hire another native son. hell would likely have to freeze over before they would look outside their own for the coach of the Terps.

Josh '99

TimV
I think it's hugely unlikely Tambroni would go anyplace that isn't Syracuse.

... they've got a couple of experienced options in-house including Simmons III.

RSiii is not even in the same league as Simmons i & ii or even Desko for that matter ... Kevin Donahue is a far superior in terms of technical knowledge and ability and has been there almost as long as JD.

ben03
they will most definitely hire another native son. hell would likely have to freeze over before they would look outside their own for the coach of the Terps.

Excellent point. The arrogant provincial claim to the sport in MD is sickeningly deep. Hiring someone from Upstate NY would be like a metaphor I can't think of right now.

ben03

Josh '99

TimV
I think it's hugely unlikely Tambroni would go anyplace that isn't Syracuse.

... they've got a couple of experienced options in-house including Simmons III.

RSiii is not even in the same league as Simmons i & ii or even Desko for that matter ... Kevin Donahue is a far superior in terms of technical knowledge and ability and has been there almost as long as JD.

I'm not saying he is, just mentioned him by name from among the other in-house options for the sake of name recognition. (Donahue is essentially the same age as Desko, so it would surprise me if they were to hire him if Desko hypothetically were to retire 10-15 years down the line only because at that point he'd be in the retirement age range as well, and it would seem to make sense to hire someone younger.)

RichH

ben03
they will most definitely hire another native son. hell would likely have to freeze over before they would look outside their own for the coach of the Terps.

Excellent point. The arrogant provincial claim to the sport in MD is sickeningly deep. Hiring someone from Upstate NY would be like a metaphor I can't think of right now.

Like a statue of Michael Jordan with Reebok gear on it?

Josh '99

ben03

Josh '99

TimV
I think it's hugely unlikely Tambroni would go anyplace that isn't Syracuse.

... they've got a couple of experienced options in-house including Simmons III.

RSiii is not even in the same league as Simmons i & ii or even Desko for that matter ... Kevin Donahue is a far superior in terms of technical knowledge and ability and has been there almost as long as JD.

I'm not saying he is, just mentioned him by name from among the other in-house options for the sake of name recognition. (Donahue is essentially the same age as Desko, so it would surprise me if they were to hire him if Desko hypothetically were to retire 10-15 years down the line only because at that point he'd be in the retirement age range as well, and it would seem to make sense to hire someone younger.)

gotcha on all points ... i'm just saying the name didn't help him with coaching prowess. it just him a job.

Are the lacrosse tickets really sold out?????
[www.ticketmaster.com]

All that is left is the 3 day VIP hospitality tickets

phillysportsfan
Are the lacrosse tickets really sold out?????
[www.ticketmaster.com]

All that is left is the 3 day VIP hospitality tickets

No. Daily tickets were released this morning. End zones in the 100s are available.

Chris '03

phillysportsfan
Are the lacrosse tickets really sold out?????
[www.ticketmaster.com]

All that is left is the 3 day VIP hospitality tickets

No. Daily tickets were released this morning. End zones in the 100s are available.

I didnt see them on Ticketmaster site, I guess they are only available by calling?

Nevermind, I found them
[www.ticketmaster.com]

If you're still looking for tickets today before 5 pm, try the Ravens ticket office. They hire incredibly polite sports interns who are very knowledgeable (other than, um, what are the Cornell sections) and you pay a less-than-online ticket surcharge. Or just buy at the gate.

billhoward
If you're still looking for tickets today before 5 pm, try the Ravens ticket office. They hire incredibly polite sports interns who are very knowledgeable (other than, um, what are the Cornell sections) and you pay a less-than-online ticket surcharge. Or just buy at the gate.

I called the Ravens' ticket office and they said single game tickets could only be purchased through Ticketmaster. Got two in 141, row 6, at 10:10 this morning. $92.90 total with all the rip-off extra chargs.

Al DeFlorio

billhoward
If you're still looking for tickets today before 5 pm, try the Ravens ticket office. They hire incredibly polite sports interns who are very knowledgeable (other than, um, what are the Cornell sections) and you pay a less-than-online ticket surcharge. Or just buy at the gate.

I called the Ravens' ticket office and they said single game tickets could only be purchased through Ticketmaster. Got two in 141, row 6, at 10:10 this morning. $92.90 total with all the rip-off extra chargs.

Yeah same here section 141, row 6 and that was at 4pm so I guess they didnt sell too many

I assume single game tickets can be purchased at the gate tomorrow?

Jordan 04
I assume single game tickets can be purchased at the gate tomorrow?

Safe assumption, I'd say. Maybe you'll get section 141, row 6!

Jordan 04
I assume single game tickets can be purchased at the gate tomorrow?

There've been thousands (tens of thousands, probably) of empty upper deck seats at the two lax Final Fours I've been to. You surely won't be turned away.

Josh '99

Jordan 04
I assume single game tickets can be purchased at the gate tomorrow?

There've been thousands (tens of thousands, probably) of empty upper deck seats at the two lax Final Fours I've been to. You surely won't be turned away.

And with no Maryland schools in the field, you can easily move downstairs.

Anyone know anywhere streaming for free?

I have to be in the lab for most of the game, so I'll be on the chat much of the time...

French Rage
Anyone know anywhere streaming for free?

I found it at channelsurfing (net). Had to download a plugin, but it's working fine.

French Rage
Anyone know anywhere streaming for free?

ESPN2.

Ditto.

Robb

French Rage
Anyone know anywhere streaming for free?

I found it at channelsurfing (net). Had to download a plugin, but it's working fine.

thanks!

It would be nice if Cornell's goalie would make a save once in awhile. That's been the difference.. CU getting frustrated as the ND goalie makes some nice saves, and CU's goalie hasn't made a big save yet and has given up a few softies.

Seems like our offense needs to be more aggressive - we're hanging back, and then making rather obvious attacks rather than driving hard and dishing. ND has much better ball movement on offense, which is opening up their guy for just that fraction of a second needed to get off a good shot.

Except for our second goal - that was a beaut.

Rogers and the ND D have been great so far. Down 8-5 entering the 4th quarter. We need an amazing push.

That was painful, I thought we won the game on the field but ND might had a sheet of plywood in front of the net. Congrats to them and thanks to this years Lax team. The are young and I am sure we will see great things from them over the next 2 years.

Towerroad
ND might had a sheet of plywood in front of the net.

Don't want to speak too highly of any opponent but he's more like a brick wall. Just like at the size of that neck! It might as well join his face and become the same body organ.

My take from the upper deck: we simply could not beat their D-men on the dodge, and ND was able to pack it in, knowing that Rodgers would eat up our outside shots. On the other end, ND didn't do anything too imaginative -- many of their goals came on power moves where they were able to muscle through our D.

Eventually, all the little things began to go against us, and we started pressing and getting a bit sloppy.

Quite a difference a week made, but give ND credit -- they did everything they would have wanted to.

Thanks to the Seniors for an amazing run. We'll certainly be in the mix again next year, but expect the Ivies to continue to improve across the board, which will make for a challenging season.

Reminded me a lot of the Dartmouth game. Ten shots in the first ten minutes but only one goal to show for it. Then Cornell fell behind and never could get in an offensive rhythm. Commendable season with a kind of flat finish. Plenty of great experience for the frosh.

#1 - ND controlled the game almost start to finish and we looked stagnant almost start to finish.

#2 - Fiore looked shaky/rattled missing numerous saves i think he would have normally made. He drops his body way to early on most shots.

#3 - Our offense seemed to be searching for ways to find shots that weren't at tight angles ... Pannell and Hurley were on islands all day long - a credit to the ND close defense.




Good to get back to the FF, we've got a lot to look forward to next year. here's to hoping we find a lefty finisher.


OTOH, the UVA/Duke game made up for the lack of excitement in our game.

ben03

Good to get back to the FF, we've got a lot to look forward to next year. here's to hoping we find a lefty finisher.

I'm hoping Lang (who's a lefty) can step up his game. He got the first goal today, but had little impact thereafter.

That sucked. More tomorrow, but not much that everyone else hasn't already said.

scoop85

ben03

Good to get back to the FF, we've got a lot to look forward to next year. here's to hoping we find a lefty finisher.

I'm hoping Lang (who's a lefty) can step up his game. He got the first goal today, but had little impact thereafter.

exactly ... he's not a finisher. we're going to need a pure goal scorer a la Hurley, Greenhalgh, Pittard etc ... a catch and shoot attacker.

A week ago against Army we played a game that could have beaten any team in the country. Against Notre Dame we played another of the underwhelming games we had too many of this year (such as against Brown). It felt as if we didn't play with emotion or intensity and certainly not with consistency. As against Dartmouth, we ran into a hot goalie. And something didn't click in the way we attacked ND's defense. I also thought, even being behind at halftime, that we'd catch fire in the third quarter, spurt past ND, and hold on the in fourth quarter. Then hope for Duke to take down Virginia because I think Virginia is the more dangerous team.

Rob Pannell seemed off at times. We took a lot of shots and got unlucky on too many of them. We lost more than our share of errant passes and took more penalties than usual.

The Duke-Virginia game was sensational and unless ND does something miraculous Monday (such as win), Saturday night's game will be described by the Lax Starts South of the Mason-Dixon Line cabal as the real title game, and they'd probably be right. Plus the weather was sensational - balmy, mid 70s, none of the daytime humidity we had. Virginia made the comeback we failed to make in game one. And then lost it on one of the bone-headed plays of all time - eight seconds to play, coming out of a timeout, Virginia in possession in its own end near midfield and down by one, one of the three players (plus goalie) back legs it across midfield rather than passes, which of course puts them offside, and thus ends the game.

But okay, did anyone think we'd be in the final four? I thought it would be a nice season to beat Princeton, lose to one other Ivy team, tie for the title, still make the NCAAs, and maybe advance beyond the first round. This was an incredible treat that Cornell got as far as it did. I guess we fans got greedy and expected we'd go all the way once we say the path: Army then Notre Dame. It would be nice to declare a mulligan and replay the ND game, as Princeton probably wishes it could have against ND, and Syracuse wishes it could have against Army, and etcetera. Notre Dame lacrosse truly was our Bemidji State.

Good luck, Irish.

I'm looking ahead to 2011 already.

Apologies if this sounds like sour grapes, but:

Why didn't the officials start giving ND the stall warning sooner? It was obvious that they were content to sit around and waste time as early as the second quarter.

Josh '99
Apologies if this sounds like sour grapes, but:

Why didn't the officials start giving ND the stall warning sooner? It was obvious that they were content to sit around and waste time as early as the second quarter.

i was saying the same thing ... but then i started paying attention to the style of play that preceded the stall call. first, we were blatantly slowing down the pace, not attacking the goal and consistently taking the ball to X. ND OTOH, was actually moving toward goal and making "attacking" moves from in front of the goal. they were also much better at keeping the ball in and out of the box while in front of the goal - which makes it harder for the refs to implement a justified stall call. it appeared the they were used to this and almost seemed knowledgeable of how to keep the stall from being called, whereas we were not. these were the differences i could discern ... to further bolster this observation when ND started to actually stall and the refs began to get it on them as soon as they could.

IMHO, the refs in both games were about as good as you could ask for ...

ben03

Josh '99
Apologies if this sounds like sour grapes, but:

Why didn't the officials start giving ND the stall warning sooner? It was obvious that they were content to sit around and waste time as early as the second quarter.

i was saying the same thing ... but then i started paying attention to the style of play that preceded the stall call. first, we were blatantly slowing down the pace, not attacking the goal and consistently taking the ball to X. ND OTOH, was actually moving toward goal and making "attacking" moves from in front of the goal. they were also much better at keeping the ball in and out of the box while in front of the goal - which makes it harder for the refs to implement a justified stall call. it appeared the they were used to this and almost seemed knowledgeable of how to keep the stall from being called, whereas we were not. these were the differences i could discern ... to further bolster this observation when ND started to actually stall and the refs began to get it on them as soon as they could.

IMHO, the refs in both games were about as good as you could ask for ...

I agree with this. ND did a great job of half-stalling. They weren't in a four-corners offense, they were patiently picking their spots - with the advantage of having patience help them both set up good shots and run clock. They always looked to be trying for position but didn't try to force anything because... with the lead, why would they?

I think Cornell played a very good first half an offense but ran into a brick wall in Scott Rodgers. He stopped shots that he had no business stopping and all of Cornell's passing and close-in shooting did them almost no good. Meanwhile, on the other side of the field, Fiore was almost invisible and the defense wasn't leaning on anyone and kept leaving wide open shooting lanes.

In the second half, the offense fell apart. Pannell and Hurley borrowed Fiore's invisibility cloak. It was like the whole team was waiting for someone else to step up. Mock was the only player who really looked like he gave a shit; everyone else looked like they came out of the locker room defeated. And then, in the fourth quarter, the defense fell apart again also. In garbage time, with the game essentially decided, the Irish decided to really make a statement and stretch their lead.

Hurley's goal with ~30 seconds left was almost embarrassing. Notre Dame couldn't have cared less about stopping it. It was like they were saying "You want a goal? Fine. We've got to save something for tomorrow. Enjoy improving your statistics."

I didn't get to watch Duke - UVA (I didn't even watch us until 10PM last night) but I will say this: the two teams playing the best lacrosse right now are meeting in the finals. Notre Dame didn't just win three games, they dominated three straight teams that were supposed to be better than them. Duke comes in after two blowout wins and a close win against the "best" team in the country. That's how a final should be set up.

On the other hand, a game between Duke and Notre Dame is almost like having BP play Enron. Still, good luck to two teams that are playing their asses off at the right time. But especially good luck to Notre Dame because they aren't Duke.

ugarte

ben03

Josh '99
Apologies if this sounds like sour grapes, but:

Why didn't the officials start giving ND the stall warning sooner? It was obvious that they were content to sit around and waste time as early as the second quarter.

i was saying the same thing ... but then i started paying attention to the style of play that preceded the stall call. first, we were blatantly slowing down the pace, not attacking the goal and consistently taking the ball to X. ND OTOH, was actually moving toward goal and making "attacking" moves from in front of the goal. they were also much better at keeping the ball in and out of the box while in front of the goal - which makes it harder for the refs to implement a justified stall call. it appeared the they were used to this and almost seemed knowledgeable of how to keep the stall from being called, whereas we were not. these were the differences i could discern ... to further bolster this observation when ND started to actually stall and the refs began to get it on them as soon as they could.

IMHO, the refs in both games were about as good as you could ask for ...

I agree with this. ND did a great job of half-stalling. They weren't in a four-corners offense, they were patiently picking their spots - with the advantage of having patience help them both set up good shots and run clock. They always looked to be trying for position but didn't try to force anything because... with the lead, why would they?

I think Cornell played a very good first half an offense but ran into a brick wall in Scott Rodgers. He stopped shots that he had no business stopping and all of Cornell's passing and close-in shooting did them almost no good. Meanwhile, on the other side of the field, Fiore was almost invisible and the defense wasn't leaning on anyone and kept leaving wide open shooting lanes.

In the second half, the offense fell apart. Pannell and Hurley borrowed Fiore's invisibility cloak. It was like the whole team was waiting for someone else to step up. Mock was the only player who really looked like he gave a shit; everyone else looked like they came out of the locker room defeated. And then, in the fourth quarter, the defense fell apart again also. In garbage time, with the game essentially decided, the Irish decided to really make a statement and stretch their lead.

Hurley's goal with ~30 seconds left was almost embarrassing. Notre Dame couldn't have cared less about stopping it. It was like they were saying "You want a goal? Fine. We've got to save something for tomorrow. Enjoy improving your statistics."

I didn't get to watch Duke - UVA (I didn't even watch us until 10PM last night) but I will say this: the two teams playing the best lacrosse right now are meeting in the finals. Notre Dame didn't just win three games, they dominated three straight teams that were supposed to be better than them. Duke comes in after two blowout wins and a close win against the "best" team in the country. That's how a final should be set up.

On the other hand, a game between Duke and Notre Dame is almost like having BP play Enron. Still, good luck to two teams that are playing their asses off at the right time. But especially good luck to Notre Dame because they aren't Duke.

I agree with most of what everyone has said. Certainly, I'm going to have to hold my nose and root for ND tomorrow. Maybe if ND joins the Big 10 we won't have the far more obnoxious Big East much longer.

Here are two more points. (1) Young teams and inconsistency go together. Even if we do no better next season, we have every right to expect to see the same team on the field week after week. (2) We don't have the kind of dodgers or midfield scoring threats to keep the ND defense from packing the front of the goal. Rodgers was a beast, and except for our early spurt, ND's defense kept our offense at bay. Our offense doesn't match up well with their defense. On the other hand, our defense seemed reticent to play the body. Even when we double-teamed their dodgers, we used sticks instead of bodies, and their players just ran through us. Perhaps this is because our defense is rather small, as the TV announcers pointed out.

My two wishes for next year is that we get the midfield more involved in scoring and that at the defensive end we start clocking more players in close, rather than just at the midfield.

Swampy hit my points. Our shot selection and impatience on attack reflected the youth of our team. And our inconsistent mid-field (certainly as compared to last year) let Notre Dame pack in around their goalie.

The bottom line for me is that this years team played above expectations. The team is young and showed flashes of what we hope will come and predictable stumbles.

We got lucky making it to the semi's. If Army had not caught lighting in a bottle and beat Syracuse our season would have probably ended being ground up in the Orange machine and we would have said it was a successful season given the teams youth.

I agree with others that our midfield play needs to become more of a threat on attack. I do however, like our ground ball performance over the last few weeks. We also put a lot of shots on Rogers body instead of at his feet or the pipes.

i know nothing about lacrosse, but am watching the ND/Duke game. from what i can gather, ND's goalie is a beast.

5-4 ND with 10:20 left. Crotty having same problems breaking through the ND defense that Pannell did.

Duke won 6-5 in OT (lowest-scoring title game in history) scoring the winning goal 5 seconds into OT.

Steve Mock was named to the All-Tournament team. Nice recognition for the effort he had in all 3 games.

For those who want to look favorably to next year, a Post-Standard article by one of it's lacrosse reporters on our young team.

Jim Hyla
For those who want to look favorably to next year, a Post-Standard article by one of it's lacrosse reporters on our young team.

Thanks, Jim. That was encouraging.

Wait till next year!

Jim Hyla
For those who want to look favorably to next year, a Post-Standard article by one of it's lacrosse reporters on our young team.

Post-Standard article
Derkac recounted how the team started fall ball by getting beaten badly by Bucknell but bounced back and refused to believe it was destined for mediocrity.

What's up with using the word "mediocrity" to describe our teams? Cornell fans are spoiled.

ajh258

Jim Hyla
For those who want to look favorably to next year, a Post-Standard article by one of it's lacrosse reporters on our young team.

Post-Standard article
Derkac recounted how the team started fall ball by getting beaten badly by Bucknell but bounced back and refused to believe it was destined for mediocrity.

What's up with using the word "mediocrity" to describe our teams? Cornell fans are spoiled.

If losing to Bucknell was actually a bellwether for the season, I'd say mediocrity would have been an earned description.