Latest Cornell football candidates

FootballScoop has learned that Cornell is set to interview Ole Miss offensive coordinator Kent Austin for the head coaching position. Terry Shea and Ron Vanderlinden (Penn State linebackers) have interviewed. We hear two others have interviewed, but have not confirmed those names. Also, add Syracuse special teams coach Bob Casullo. I like Kent Austin of those names mentioned above,Terry Shea is what 64 years old!.

I hope Cornell has at least contacted Holy Cross HC Tom Gilmore as to his possible interest. Another highly regarded assistant coach is Brian White with Florida (former Harvard standout QB).

I would be happy with Austin, but I like the idea of Vanderlinden as well. Several of my Penn State alum friends would be crestfallen if he were to leave. He's the heart & soul of "Linebacker U." I would be less enthusiastic with a Shea hire. I'm actually of the mind that an older coach is the way to go. However, I feel like we can do better should we go that route.

There's also a report of the Syracuse special teams coach Casullo interviewing but he has never been an coordinator, let alone have any head coaching experience. I hope we pass on Terry Shea, 64 going on 65 is too old for the rebuilding job the new coach at Cornell will undertake.

If Austin can recruit in the Ivy League, then I think his offensive coaching background will be an asset. Vanderlinden although not successful at Maryland, was credited with bringing in the recruits that Ralph Friedgen had early success with.

I think Dexter McCluster's OC would start weeping at his first Ivy League practice.

Any news on how it's going? I hope there's more candidates than the names reported so far being Terry Shea, Bob Casullo and Ron Vanderlinden. Those coaches are at or approaching 60 years old.... Rebuilding Cornell's football program is a long-term job to recruit the athletes needed to build an Ivy League championship level program.

Ken711
Any news on how it's going? I hope there's more candidates than the names reported so far being Terry Shea, Bob Casullo and Ron Vanderlinden. Those coaches are at or approaching 60 years old.... Rebuilding Cornell's football program is a long-term job to recruit the athletes needed to build an Ivy League championship level program.

A 60-or-just-under-60 year old coach can do a multi-year rebuilding program. How many young coaches with higher future aspirations would be staying longer than 5-6 years anyway? Either they rebuild the program in that time and move on to greener pastures, or they fail and are gone.

Jordan 04
A 60-or-just-under-60 year old coach can do a multi-year rebuilding program. How many young coaches with higher future aspirations would be staying longer than 5-6 years anyway? Either they rebuild the program in that time and move on to greener pastures, or they fail and are gone.

Or you get a guy who wants to build the program and stay. Surely not everyone is just going for the brass ring?

Trotsky
Or you get a guy who wants to build the program and stay. Surely not everyone is just going for the brass ring?

I agree. Penn's Bagnoli has been there for 18 years.

Ken711

Trotsky
Or you get a guy who wants to build the program and stay. Surely not everyone is just going for the brass ring?

I agree. Penn's Bagnoli has been there for 18 years.

Carm Cozza was at Yale seemingly forever and won more than his share of titles.

Al DeFlorio

Ken711

Trotsky
Or you get a guy who wants to build the program and stay. Surely not everyone is just going for the brass ring?

I agree. Penn's Bagnoli has been there for 18 years.

Carm Cozza was at Yale seemingly forever and won more than his share of titles.

It was a different coaching world back then, and the Ivies were more "relevant." That being said, you could get the right guy who is happy staying put.

scoop85

Al DeFlorio

Ken711

Trotsky
Or you get a guy who wants to build the program and stay. Surely not everyone is just going for the brass ring?

I agree. Penn's Bagnoli has been there for 18 years.

Carm Cozza was at Yale seemingly forever and won more than his share of titles.

It was a different coaching world back then, and the Ivies were more "relevant."

Different in the 60s and 70s, perhaps, but the Ivies were no more "relevant" in the 80s and 90s, and that was half of Cozza's tenure at Yale. Surely there's someone out there who knows how to coach winning football and doesn't want to deal with guns, rape, felonies, and players who wouldn't recognize a classroom should they ever stumble into one.

And how many Ivy coaches in this "less-relevant" Ivy era have moved on to big-time head-coaching positions? "Back then" Blackman did (and he was brilliant at Dartmouth), but soon returned...chastened.

Al DeFlorio
Surely there's someone out there who knows how to coach winning football and doesn't want to deal with guns, rape, felonies, and players who wouldn't recognize a classroom should they ever stumble into one.

So, Columbia's out?

Jordan 04

Ken711
Any news on how it's going? I hope there's more candidates than the names reported so far being Terry Shea, Bob Casullo and Ron Vanderlinden. Those coaches are at or approaching 60 years old.... Rebuilding Cornell's football program is a long-term job to recruit the athletes needed to build an Ivy League championship level program.

A 60-or-just-under-60 year old coach can do a multi-year rebuilding program. How many young coaches with higher future aspirations would be staying longer than 5-6 years anyway? Either they rebuild the program in that time and move on to greener pastures, or they fail and are gone.

I like this outlook. The next coach is going to be here no longer than 5-6 years unless an older coach gets the job, has some success and decides to stay until he retires. Either way, I think we need a head coach who will bring in a fun and attractive offense for recruits to play in and attract a few top notch qbs throughout his tenure. It will be interesting to see who Noel goes with...I am sensing he will bring in a young guy with little experience which is always a crapshoot

We can't go through another 5-6 years to see if the coach is a failure again. Andy Noel needs to get this hire right this time, and more importantly, the University from the President to the admissions office has to provide the new staff with all the support and resources they require to finally build a championship program in football at Cornell!

Ken711
the University from the President to the admissions office has to provide the new staff with all the support and resources they require to finally build a championship program in football at Cornell!

We're lousy, but is there any indication the football program is denied needed resources by Cornell? They seem to have excellent facilities. Short of lowering admissions standards -- not an acceptable option -- what else should they be doing?

Trotsky

Ken711
the University from the President to the admissions office has to provide the new staff with all the support and resources they require to finally build a championship program in football at Cornell!

We're lousy, but is there any indication the football program is denied needed resources by Cornell? They seem to have excellent facilities. Short of lowering admissions standards -- not an acceptable option -- what else should they be doing?

One thing is the ability to match the financial packaging being offered by other Ivy schools to attract top recruits. Also providing recruiting resources to the staff to recruit on a nationwide basis.

Ken711
We can't go through another 5-6 years to see if the coach is a failure again. Andy Noel needs to get this hire right this time, and more importantly, the University from the President to the admissions office has to provide the new staff with all the support and resources they require to finally build a championship program in football at Cornell!

But do they? Do they really? I understand and respect the fact that other people care about the possibilities of Cornell football and would like to see them succeed, but let's be real here. What does an Ivy Championship in football rate--and the way things are now that is the absolute highest honor they can hope for even in the best of circumstances--compared to all the other things those people could be spending their time, money, and energy on?

Lauren '06
What does an Ivy Championship in football rate--and the way things are now that is the absolute highest honor they can hope for even in the best of circumstances--compared to all the other things those people could be spending their time, money, and energy on?

What it comes down to for Cornell is, if I spend $X on winning an Ivy championship, will I get back $X+1 in additional giving because alums are happy (or because the next Ed Marinaro class of '15 gives his NFL signing bonus to the Hotel school.


A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?

You wouldn't believe.

Which car company do you work for?

A major one.

Are there really people out there who would adjust their giving based on the success of the football team? (Other than, perhaps, football alumni who matriculate in these hypothetical boom times and had a better time on campus because they weren't deeply demoralized every Saturday?)

Lauren '06
Are there really people out there who would adjust their giving based on the success of the football team? (Other than, perhaps, football alumni who matriculate in these hypothetical boom times and had a better time on campus because they weren't deeply demoralized every Saturday?)

Are there really people out there who would adjust their giving based on the success of the hockey team? Absolutely. I'm one. Not that I'd necessarily give less to hockey if the program hit a down period. But if hockey hadn't been big at Cornell I would probably not have given that mone. Which would mean less money for Cornell, since I'm not taking money I already planned to give to Cornell and redirecting it from unrestricted to hockey. It's just additional hockey money.

The same thing would apply to football for some folks. I can't put a number on this effect - and I question to what extent the AD can either - but it's a real effect.

Trotsky
A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

That's exactly how your company should act. Life is all about risk-reward, cost-benefit analyses.

KeithK

Trotsky
A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

That's exactly how your company should act. Life is all about risk-reward, cost-benefit analyses.

Morality occasionally rears its ugly head. The automakers - the Germans at least - freely license (give away) some crash protection technology. Most recently BMW figured how to predict the chance of injury in accidents so they could tell if this specific accident has a higer chance of undetected internal injury, say a side impact with a torn aorta where the victim doesn't know he's in trouble until he exsanguinates. So they give the underlying algorithms freely to GM to use with OnStar. It isn't entirely altruistic: BMW wants CDC to require 911 call centers to send more help sooner if the telematics crash report says the accident warrants an ambulance right now. And BMW plus OnStar crash data will provide more info sooner so CDC can make up its mind.

Al DeFlorio

scoop85

Al DeFlorio

Ken711

Trotsky
Or you get a guy who wants to build the program and stay. Surely not everyone is just going for the brass ring?

I agree. Penn's Bagnoli has been there for 18 years.

Carm Cozza was at Yale seemingly forever and won more than his share of titles.

It was a different coaching world back then, and the Ivies were more "relevant."

Different in the 60s and 70s, perhaps, but the Ivies were no more "relevant" in the 80s and 90s, and that was half of Cozza's tenure at Yale. Surely there's someone out there who knows how to coach winning football and doesn't want to deal with guns, rape, felonies, and players who wouldn't recognize a classroom should they ever stumble into one.

And how many Ivy coaches in this "less-relevant" Ivy era have moved on to big-time head-coaching positions? "Back then" Blackman did (and he was brilliant at Dartmouth), but soon returned...chastened.

Al, is it possible that - all other things being equal - players respond better to a coach who's in his 30s or 40s than 60s?

Ken711

Trotsky

Ken711
the University from the President to the admissions office has to provide the new staff with all the support and resources they require to finally build a championship program in football at Cornell!

We're lousy, but is there any indication the football program is denied needed resources by Cornell? They seem to have excellent facilities. Short of lowering admissions standards -- not an acceptable option -- what else should they be doing?

One thing is the ability to match the financial packaging being offered by other Ivy schools to attract top recruits. Also providing recruiting resources to the staff to recruit on a nationwide basis.

Right. Match the financial aid packages of Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. Just like that. No big deal. Harvard's endowment in 2008 was $37 billion; Yale's, $23 billion; Princeton's, $16 billion (highest per student among Ivies); Cornell's, $5 billion.

How many billions are you signing up for, Ken, to close that gap?

Al DeFlorio

Ken711

Trotsky

Ken711
the University from the President to the admissions office has to provide the new staff with all the support and resources they require to finally build a championship program in football at Cornell!

We're lousy, but is there any indication the football program is denied needed resources by Cornell? They seem to have excellent facilities. Short of lowering admissions standards -- not an acceptable option -- what else should they be doing?

One thing is the ability to match the financial packaging being offered by other Ivy schools to attract top recruits. Also providing recruiting resources to the staff to recruit on a nationwide basis.

Right. Match the financial aid packages of Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. Just like that. No big deal. Harvard's endowment in 2008 was $37 billion; Yale's, $23 billion; Princeton's, $16 billion (highest per student among Ivies); Cornell's, $5 billion.

How many billions are you signing up for, Ken, to close that gap?

Al, actually Cornell is trying to close the gap, however their new program was called into question by the HYP contingent. They will make have to continue making adjustments to level the playing field or the competitiveness the Ivy League will go out the window.

[www.cornellsun.com]

billhoward

Al DeFlorio

scoop85

Al DeFlorio

Ken711

Trotsky
Or you get a guy who wants to build the program and stay. Surely not everyone is just going for the brass ring?

I agree. Penn's Bagnoli has been there for 18 years.

Carm Cozza was at Yale seemingly forever and won more than his share of titles.

It was a different coaching world back then, and the Ivies were more "relevant."

Different in the 60s and 70s, perhaps, but the Ivies were no more "relevant" in the 80s and 90s, and that was half of Cozza's tenure at Yale. Surely there's someone out there who knows how to coach winning football and doesn't want to deal with guns, rape, felonies, and players who wouldn't recognize a classroom should they ever stumble into one.

And how many Ivy coaches in this "less-relevant" Ivy era have moved on to big-time head-coaching positions? "Back then" Blackman did (and he was brilliant at Dartmouth), but soon returned...chastened.

Al, is it possible that - all other things being equal - players respond better to a coach who's in his 30s or 40s than 60s?

That question could start a discussion as tiresome as the one going on in the "useless statistics" thread.

Ken711

Al DeFlorio

Ken711

Trotsky

Ken711
the University from the President to the admissions office has to provide the new staff with all the support and resources they require to finally build a championship program in football at Cornell!

We're lousy, but is there any indication the football program is denied needed resources by Cornell? They seem to have excellent facilities. Short of lowering admissions standards -- not an acceptable option -- what else should they be doing?

One thing is the ability to match the financial packaging being offered by other Ivy schools to attract top recruits. Also providing recruiting resources to the staff to recruit on a nationwide basis.

Right. Match the financial aid packages of Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. Just like that. No big deal. Harvard's endowment in 2008 was $37 billion; Yale's, $23 billion; Princeton's, $16 billion (highest per student among Ivies); Cornell's, $5 billion.

How many billions are you signing up for, Ken, to close that gap?

Al, actually Cornell is trying to close the gap, however their new program was called into question by the HYP contingent. They will make have to continue making adjustments to level the playing field or the competitiveness the Ivy League will go out the window.

[www.cornellsun.com]

If, as the piece you linked seems to indicate, the "new program" was going to give preferential aid to athletes, it should have been called into question. I don't like it one bit. In any case, if H, Y, and P were to target enhanced aid to athletes, we'd really be lunchmeat. Braindead idea.

Trotsky

Lauren '06
What does an Ivy Championship in football rate--and the way things are now that is the absolute highest honor they can hope for even in the best of circumstances--compared to all the other things those people could be spending their time, money, and energy on?

What it comes down to for Cornell is, if I spend $X on winning an Ivy championship, will I get back $X+1 in additional giving because alums are happy (or because the next Ed Marinaro class of '15 gives his NFL signing bonus to the Hotel school.


A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?

You wouldn't believe.

Which car company do you work for?

A major one.

Yeah that is definitely one of the best quotes from Fight Club.

Lauren '06
Are there really people out there who would adjust their giving based on the success of the football team? (Other than, perhaps, football alumni who matriculate in these hypothetical boom times and had a better time on campus because they weren't deeply demoralized every Saturday?)

Lauren's on the right track here. We should just drop football. It's got to be costing much more money than it's bringing in, even if we don't give athletic scholarships. Most of the students could care less (with the exception of the players, of course). Based on decades of mediocrity, it's hard to see the program being turned around in a short time span. Yes, I know the basketball team did that, but you don't need to find as many good players as you do to turn a football program around. There would certainly be a huge outcry from some alumni, but I'd rather see the resources we waste on football being used somewhere else, such as being used to improve sports that we can be competitive in. And yes, we have other sports teams which have also done poorly for a long time (i.e. men's soccer). But they don't cost as much money as the football program. We can always schedule Homecoming Weekend for a big field hockey game instead of a football game!

Al DeFlorio
If, as the piece you linked seems to indicate, the "new program" was going to give preferential aid to athletes, it should have been called into question.

We'd have to know how the program worked in detail. There's certainly targeting of athletes for preferential admission (anything that gets a weighted factor in the admission process, from music to high school yearbook, is "targeted" ), but I'm not aware of any targeted aid (other than this program) other than EFC. Isn't that what "no athletic scholarships" means?

According to footballscoop.com Cornell: Syracuse assistant Bob Casullo is not a candidate. We have heard that Cornell may have sweetened the deal for a coach that interviewed early on.

I am either guessing Bill Lazor or Linebackers coach from Penn State

dbilmes

Lauren '06
Are there really people out there who would adjust their giving based on the success of the football team? (Other than, perhaps, football alumni who matriculate in these hypothetical boom times and had a better time on campus because they weren't deeply demoralized every Saturday?)

Lauren's on the right track here. We should just drop football. It's got to be costing much more money than it's bringing in, even if we don't give athletic scholarships. Most of the students could care less (with the exception of the players, of course). Based on decades of mediocrity, it's hard to see the program being turned around in a short time span. Yes, I know the basketball team did that, but you don't need to find as many good players as you do to turn a football program around. There would certainly be a huge outcry from some alumni, but I'd rather see the resources we waste on football being used somewhere else, such as being used to improve sports that we can be competitive in. And yes, we have other sports teams which have also done poorly for a long time (i.e. men's soccer). But they don't cost as much money as the football program. We can always schedule Homecoming Weekend for a big field hockey game instead of a football game!

Absolutely absurd. If Cornell gave up football there would be hundreds, if not thousands, of angry alumni (particularly older READ: wealthier, more likely to give large donations to the university) who would never give another dime to Cornell. Cornell football, while bad of recent, is a tradition that should be resurrected, not abandoned. Next time lacrosse or hockey has a few down years, I'd love to hear you say the same thing. As a current law student and a recent graduate, I can tell you that, yes a majority of the students don't care, but a significant portion do. Many more would care if the team were competing for an Ivy title. The problem is that the Ivy League wallows in FCS and can't even compete in the playoffs there. Rather than eliminating the program, the league should join FBS, play each other and the service academies or other academically inclined institutions. It'd be a change in name only and people would instantly care again because they wouldn't think they were watching 2nd class football.

CUontheslopes
Rather than eliminating the program, the league should join FBS, play each other and the service academies or other academically inclined institutions. It'd be a change in name only and people would instantly care again because they wouldn't think they were watching 2nd class football.

Can't just join the FBS. FBS membership requirements include 15,000 average attendance and awarding at least 90% of the scholarship limit. The service academies have certain exemptions.

dbilmes
Lauren's on the right track here. We should just drop football. It's got to be costing much more money than it's bringing in, even if we don't give athletic scholarships. Most of the students could care less (with the exception of the players, of course). Based on decades of mediocrity, it's hard to see the program being turned around in a short time span. Yes, I know the basketball team did that, but you don't need to find as many good players as you do to turn a football program around. There would certainly be a huge outcry from some alumni, but I'd rather see the resources we waste on football being used somewhere else, such as being used to improve sports that we can be competitive in. And yes, we have other sports teams which have also done poorly for a long time (i.e. men's soccer). But they don't cost as much money as the football program. We can always schedule Homecoming Weekend for a big field hockey game instead of a football game!

I'm almost hesitant to respond to this, because I'm wary of unduly lending credence to what I think is an absurd idea. Cornell will never end football in our lifetime, so it's silly to discuss. Then again, message boards seemingly exist so that we can engage in silly "what if" games, so...

I loathe the attitude presented in the above post. First of all, it runs counter to the entire mission of Cornell University: "I would found an institution where any person can find instruction in any study." That includes football. Cornell's head coach is a teacher and that field is a classroom. If some high-achieving 18 year old wants to master engineering, business management, and football, he should be able to do all three at Cornell. Prominent schools like Syracuse don't even offer baseball or hockey. Cornell offers pretty much everything because that's our chosen mission. Heck, we even have a sprint football team.

Second, I'm suspicious of how much money we're really "losing" on football. As you said, we're obviously not out any scholarship money. Further, although attendance is not where it should be, it's not like the stands are empty. People are coming (and paying) to see these kids in numbers far greater than most other CU teams. It could (and should) be MORE people, but I went to two games last year and the stands were hardlly empty.

I also imagine football receives more directed donations than any other sport outside hockey, so money is definitely coming in. Besides, it's not like we're spending a fortune on travel expenses. The team only leaves campus 5 times a year. As such, I refuse to believe the football program is bleeding money unless I see hard numbers to the contrary.

Third, the recent history of college football is littered with examples of upstart coaches coming to mediocre/atrocious programs and turning them around in a relatively short period of time. Cornell is one good coaching hire away from being competitive at the FCS level. To give up and say "it can't be done," is absurd because history teaches us that it clearly CAN be done. If small schools in obscure states with a fraction of our funding can find somebody to make them relevant, so can we. Noel just needs to make the right choice. It wasn't that long ago that the idea of ANYONE ever winning at Rutgers seemed laughable.

Fourth, Cornell has won NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS in football. I don't care how many decades ago they were, they still happened. Ivy League schools, more than any other, should appreciate the importance of respecting and honoring our history. Giving up and disbanding a once proud program does not honor that history. Rehabilitating the program and putting in the time, energy, and resources necessary to re-establish it DOES.

Most importantly, I would rather not have the dubious distinction of being the ONLY Ivy not to offer football. I'm sure that would look great to prospective students.

CornellChris
Fourth, Cornell has won NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS in football. I don't care how many decades ago they were, they still happened. Ivy League schools, more than any other, should appreciate the importance of respecting and honoring our history. Giving up and disbanding a once proud program does not honor that history. Rehabilitating the program and putting in the time, energy, and resources necessary to re-establish it DOES.

U of Chicago won a couple national championships and walked away from the varsity game. In retrospect, it was probably a smart move for them.

CornellChris
Most importantly, I would rather not have the dubious distinction of being the ONLY Ivy not to offer football. I'm sure that would look great to prospective students.

I agree here. Football was what started the Ivy League in the first place. It's the flagship sport. It's always been a significant part of student life, even if that's been on the decline. I think that as long as Ivy football can avoid falling into the trap of a facilities arms race, the sort of thing that plagues FBS schools, and not try to break down the Ivy/FCS playoff barrier, it will be sustainable.

imafrshmn
I think that as long as Ivy football can avoid falling into the trap of a facilities arms race, the sort of thing that plagues FBS schools, and not try to break down the Ivy/FCS playoff barrier, it will be sustainable.

Why in the world should Ivy schools not participate in post season football games? They do in every other sport as far as I know. Where's the difference there?

dbilmes
Lauren's on the right track here. We should just drop football. It's got to be costing much more money than it's bringing in, even if we don't give athletic scholarships. Most of the students could care less (with the exception of the players, of course). Based on decades of mediocrity, it's hard to see the program being turned around in a short time span. Yes, I know the basketball team did that, but you don't need to find as many good players as you do to turn a football program around. There would certainly be a huge outcry from some alumni, but I'd rather see the resources we waste on football being used somewhere else, such as being used to improve sports that we can be competitive in. And yes, we have other sports teams which have also done poorly for a long time (i.e. men's soccer). But they don't cost as much money as the football program. We can always schedule Homecoming Weekend for a big field hockey game instead of a football game!

Oh Yeah... Great idea. So good, in fact, that ALL schools should drop sports in which they are not successful. We wouldn't have to be bothered by Dartmouth lacrosse any more. Or Clarkson Hockey. Sorry Dpprk. You lose. All of Columbia's teams could vanish, except fencing. Great!

To clarify my own position here: dbilmes may be advocating to fold the football team, but I'm not. I just don't understand why fixing it at any cost is such a priority for people given a) the program's long-standing mediocrity and b) the baffling restrictions placed on the sport by the Ivy League. I don't see people so aggressive about changing the fortunes of the baseball team, or the soccer team, or any other non-football sport that's not raking in league championships... many of which receive no support from the university at all. What's so great about football that it deserves more attention?

I saw this same attitude in high school. Well, the pool may practically be a condemned site and the lacrosse team practices on a cracked parking lot, but god forbid the football team doesn't have new helmets and clinics and mandatory school-sponsored pep rallies every single year. And my high school team wallowed in perennial futility too. I do not get the fixation. Is it really all about the gate?

Lauren '06
To clarify my own position here: dbilmes may be advocating to fold the football team, but I'm not. I just don't understand why fixing it at any cost is such a priority for people given a) the program's long-standing mediocrity and b) the baffling restrictions placed on the sport by the Ivy League.

I don't think anyone is suggesting we need to fix football "at any cost". People just have the impression that more could be done to create a good Ivy football program. In the grand scheme of things it shouldn't be that hard to build a football program that can win an Ivy title once in a while.

Lauren '06
I don't see people so aggressive about changing the fortunes of the baseball team, or the soccer team, or any other non-football sport that's not raking in league championships... many of which receive no support from the university at all. What's so great about football that it deserves more attention?

Because it's football!

Now I say this as someone who really doesn't give a rats ass about Cornell football and pretty much never has. (I am an NFL fan.) Whether you like it or , football has a certain status among American sports. A lot of people like the sport and like to watch the sport. It's ingrained in American culture. More so than soccer or lacrosse or swimming or (gulp) baseball, especially at the college level.

TimV

dbilmes
Lauren's on the right track here. We should just drop football. It's got to be costing much more money than it's bringing in, even if we don't give athletic scholarships. Most of the students could care less (with the exception of the players, of course). Based on decades of mediocrity, it's hard to see the program being turned around in a short time span. Yes, I know the basketball team did that, but you don't need to find as many good players as you do to turn a football program around. There would certainly be a huge outcry from some alumni, but I'd rather see the resources we waste on football being used somewhere else, such as being used to improve sports that we can be competitive in. And yes, we have other sports teams which have also done poorly for a long time (i.e. men's soccer). But they don't cost as much money as the football program. We can always schedule Homecoming Weekend for a big field hockey game instead of a football game!

Oh Yeah... Great idea. So good, in fact, that ALL schools should drop sports in which they are not successful. We wouldn't have to be bothered by Dartmouth lacrosse any more. Or Clarkson Hockey. Sorry Dpprk. You lose. All of Columbia's teams could vanish, except fencing. Great!

Haha, Funny.

Could you atleast spell my name right? I can live without the 29, but who misses the e? and you choose clarkson hockey? (I won't remind you that Clarkson has a more recent ECAC title than Cornell.) Why not Brown? or Union? or AIC? there losing is much more prolific than Clarkson's has ever been.

Dpperk29
and you choose clarkson hockey? (I won't remind you that Clarkson has a more recent ECAC title than Cornell.) Why not Brown? or Union? or AIC? there losing is much more prolific than Clarkson's has ever been.

Probably because no one from those schools posts on this Forum

CUontheslopes

dbilmes

Lauren '06
Are there really people out there who would adjust their giving based on the success of the football team? (Other than, perhaps, football alumni who matriculate in these hypothetical boom times and had a better time on campus because they weren't deeply demoralized every Saturday?)

Lauren's on the right track here. We should just drop football. It's got to be costing much more money than it's bringing in, even if we don't give athletic scholarships. Most of the students could care less (with the exception of the players, of course). Based on decades of mediocrity, it's hard to see the program being turned around in a short time span. Yes, I know the basketball team did that, but you don't need to find as many good players as you do to turn a football program around. There would certainly be a huge outcry from some alumni, but I'd rather see the resources we waste on football being used somewhere else, such as being used to improve sports that we can be competitive in. And yes, we have other sports teams which have also done poorly for a long time (i.e. men's soccer). But they don't cost as much money as the football program. We can always schedule Homecoming Weekend for a big field hockey game instead of a football game!

Absolutely absurd. If Cornell gave up football there would be hundreds, if not thousands, of angry alumni (particularly older READ: wealthier, more likely to give large donations to the university) who would never give another dime to Cornell. Cornell football, while bad of recent, is a tradition that should be resurrected, not abandoned. Next time lacrosse or hockey has a few down years, I'd love to hear you say the same thing. As a current law student and a recent graduate, I can tell you that, yes a majority of the students don't care, but a significant portion do. Many more would care if the team were competing for an Ivy title. The problem is that the Ivy League wallows in FCS and can't even compete in the playoffs there. Rather than eliminating the program, the league should join FBS, play each other and the service academies or other academically inclined institutions. It'd be a change in name only and people would instantly care again because they wouldn't think they were watching 2nd class football.

What makes you think Cornell could ever compete in the FBS or against the service academies? That's an outrageous statement. We belong to one of the worst leagues in the FCS, joining FBS is out of the question. The bottom line is that it's too difficult to attract 20+ kids per year to Cornell to play football. The Northeast is a graveyard for football recruiting. Why do you think our hockey and lacrosse programs are consistently among the best in the country? Canada's next door (all our players are Canadian) and lacrosse is religion in the state of NY and New England.

The Cornell football program needs to work with the raw materials they've got. How about this for a start? Don't hire bums like Jim Knowles just because they're an alumnus of the school, hire a competent coach. Football is 80% coaching. If you find the right coach who can out-recruit the Harvard's and Yale's, we can compete in the league. To set our sights any higher is really naive.

And by the way, Cornell does NOT have a football tradition, just because we won 4 national championships between 1915 and 1939. No one cares. The era of football when the Army's and Navy's and Princeton's of the world compete has been over since before my parents were born. No current college football fans care. College football is big business now, not a bunch of white boy leatherheads.

U of Chicago walked away from football. Now, a friend's daughter who visited then turned Chicago down for Brown (Cornell waitlisted her) said, "[U of] Chicago is where fun goes to die." I don't think football going away made Chicago an unfun place to be but maybe over time the school got rid of things that weren't central to its mission of being about education, and the overall experience suffered.

This is a discussion in a vacuum. Shuttering the football program isn't going to happen.

billhoward

This is a discussion in a vacuum. Shuttering the football program isn't going to happen.

I know full well Cornell isn't going to drop its football program, even if few people really care about it. But it's always fun to get people riled up -- especially on eLynah, where it doesn't take much to do so!
Perhaps I'm jaded because the football team got off to a 3-0-1 start my freshman year and then went winless the rest of the season. Or perhaps because I was there the season we beat Bucknell on opening day, and then lost the rest of our games, culminating with a home loss to Columbia at which we proudly chanted, "We're No. 8!" as the final seconds ticked down. Of course that led to the infamous firing of George Siefert, who later proved to be such a terrible coach that he only won two Super Bowls. Or perhaps because I was there for the beginning of the Bob Blackman era, which proved that it doesn't matter how good the coach is, he still needs some good players in order to win.

Andy Noel on the second intermission interview of the ND-Cornell game Friday said for journalists to come back to Ithaca next week for important news. Which I take to mean the naming of a coach rather fulfilling Dave Bilmes' desire of no football losses next year on account of no team.

the goal of the cornell administration is to get a fball team that produces a decent enough product that the stands dont look 90% empty any time they dont give away tickets.. they are pretty upset with the current status of a team that cant compete on the field or in put people in the seats.

Dpperk29

TimV

dbilmes
Lauren's on the right track here. We should just drop football. It's got to be costing much more money than it's bringing in, even if we don't give athletic scholarships. Most of the students could care less (with the exception of the players, of course). Based on decades of mediocrity, it's hard to see the program being turned around in a short time span. Yes, I know the basketball team did that, but you don't need to find as many good players as you do to turn a football program around. There would certainly be a huge outcry from some alumni, but I'd rather see the resources we waste on football being used somewhere else, such as being used to improve sports that we can be competitive in. And yes, we have other sports teams which have also done poorly for a long time (i.e. men's soccer). But they don't cost as much money as the football program. We can always schedule Homecoming Weekend for a big field hockey game instead of a football game!

Oh Yeah... Great idea. So good, in fact, that ALL schools should drop sports in which they are not successful. We wouldn't have to be bothered by Dartmouth lacrosse any more. Or Clarkson Hockey. Sorry Dpprk. You lose. All of Columbia's teams could vanish, except fencing. Great!

Haha, Funny.

Could you atleast spell my name right? I can live without the 29, but who misses the e? and you choose clarkson hockey? (I won't remind you that Clarkson has a more recent ECAC title than Cornell.) Why not Brown? or Union? or AIC? there losing is much more prolific than Clarkson's has ever been.

Sorry my man- I was in a hurry. Maybe you could be added to the spell check. But that was exactly my point. THIS YEAR Clarkson sucks, and if they have too many of those, do you lose all that history as well as the chance to bounce back? It was the crazyness that ensues when the usuccessful teams all get thrown away until ultimately there are no more teams. By the way, when Cornell isn't on the ice, I love Clarkson - the aggressive/dirty style, Bonesaw, the band. The uniforms with that silly knight not so much. Looks kinda like the handle of a piece of fancy silverware.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/1/24/1267557/former-chiefs-qb-coach-working]http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/1/24/1267557/former-chiefs-qb-coach-working[/url]

Looks like Shea will be busy working with one of the best quarterbacks available in the NFL Draft.

Try this link; the one above didn't work for me: [www.arrowheadpride.com]

>>> Starting on Monday, [Terry] Shea will work with Sam Bradford to prepare him for April's draft, ESPN's Chris Mortensen reports.

KeithK

Lauren '06
I don't see people so aggressive about changing the fortunes of the baseball team, or the soccer team, or any other non-football sport that's not raking in league championships... many of which receive no support from the university at all. What's so great about football that it deserves more attention?

Because it's football!

Now I say this as someone who really doesn't give a rats ass about Cornell football and pretty much never has. (I am an NFL fan.) Whether you like it or , football has a certain status among American sports. A lot of people like the sport and like to watch the sport. It's ingrained in American culture. More so than soccer or lacrosse or swimming or (gulp) baseball, especially at the college level.

Lauren, why do you hate America?

Follow the donor arc. Ivy football alumni support is, literally, dying, and its cost-benefit to the university decreases in kind. It will never be demoted from varsity sport because of its history and cultural importance, but it's easily imaginable that in 20 years Ivy football will be effectively D-III in cost and commitment.

Josh '99
Lauren, why do you hate America?

It's a condition of my study permit.

KeithK

Lauren '06
I don't see people so aggressive about changing the fortunes of the baseball team, or the soccer team, or any other non-football sport that's not raking in league championships... many of which receive no support from the university at all. What's so great about football that it deserves more attention?

Because it's football!

Now I say this as someone who really doesn't give a rats ass about Cornell football and pretty much never has. (I am an NFL fan.) Whether you like it or , football has a certain status among American sports. A lot of people like the sport and like to watch the sport. It's ingrained in American culture. More so than soccer or lacrosse or swimming or (gulp) baseball, especially at the college level.

I know, I know. It's just, for me personally, it seems more sensible that the personal (and maybe the financial) investment should align with the strengths of the institution, not with cultural ideals or whatever. In my high school example, we excelled year in and year out at lacrosse and water polo and cross country, and we also had one of the very few crew teams in the area, but the administration was completely focused on football just because it was football. Even though it was something we had never been good at. That attitude strikes me as frankly ridiculous, which I guess is why I stamp my feet and rant about it when the opportunity arises. (Even here, where nobody is advancing football at the expense of other sports--we are on elynah.)

Of course, someone can point out that if we only paid attention to what we're good at and neglected everything else, we wouldn't be having the success in basketball we're having now... and, well, they'd be right. But football is--for whatever reason--treated differently in the Ivy League than every other sport, the ceiling on any team's potential is placed much lower, and so it seems more logical not to bother with the effort to improve it. But mine is just one opinion that has the power to change nothing, so.

Lauren '06

Josh '99
Lauren, why do you hate America?

It's a condition of my study permit.

KeithK

Lauren '06
I don't see people so aggressive about changing the fortunes of the baseball team, or the soccer team, or any other non-football sport that's not raking in league championships... many of which receive no support from the university at all. What's so great about football that it deserves more attention?

Because it's football!

Now I say this as someone who really doesn't give a rats ass about Cornell football and pretty much never has. (I am an NFL fan.) Whether you like it or , football has a certain status among American sports. A lot of people like the sport and like to watch the sport. It's ingrained in American culture. More so than soccer or lacrosse or swimming or (gulp) baseball, especially at the college level.

I know, I know. It's just, for me personally, it seems more sensible that the personal (and maybe the financial) investment should align with the strengths of the institution, not with cultural ideals or whatever. In my high school example, we excelled year in and year out at lacrosse and water polo and cross country, and we also had one of the very few crew teams in the area, but the administration was completely focused on football just because it was football. Even though it was something we had never been good at. That attitude strikes me as frankly ridiculous, and I see a little bit of that football-fetishism happening here (although not, of course, at the expense of other sports--we are on elynah). Of course, someone can point out that if we only paid attention to what we're good at and neglected everything else, we wouldn't be having the success in basketball we're having now... and, well, they'd be right. But football is--for whatever reason--treated differently in the Ivy League than every other sport, the ceiling on any team's potential is placed much lower, and so it seems more logical not to bother with the effort to improve it. But mine is just one opinion that has the power to change nothing, so.

Yeah but, you know how much worse it is in every other league. For heaven's sake, SU dropped wrestling and swimming, sports that they were good at, but didn't want to put the work, and money, into. They haven't had baseball since forever.

If you look at the sports that Ivy schools have compared to the few of other schools, you'll see that football doesn't carry anywhere near the influence. So at least you can try to be happy with that. or

Trotsky
Follow the donor arc. Ivy football alumni support is, literally, dying, and its cost-benefit to the university decreases in kind. It will never be demoted from varsity sport because of its history and cultural importance, but it's easily imaginable that in 20 years Ivy football will be effectively D-III in cost and commitment.

If D-III is the endgame, maybe we're ahead of the curve. I can't wait to see us get taken apart by the Lord Jeffs of Amherst but hold on in that spirited Cornell-Hamilton rivalvy. (For once when someone says "literally dying" instread of "figuratively," they're right.)

I wouldnt mind seeing us drop football and devote more of those resources to basketball especially, hockey and lacrosse. Look at the A-10 schools, I dont think any of them have football and therefore they have average overall athletic budgets less than the Ivy league but have 3 times greater basketball budgets. And the A-10 schools have had great success in basketball, this year they could legitimately be a 4-5 bid league. Basketball is a sport since the rosters are so small that small schools can compete with the power six conferences. Look at what George Mason did, what Gonzaga has done consistently over the years and Old Dominion, Western Kentucky, Butler, etc

They have scholarships. We do not. Our success this year is solely the function of Wittman being injured his senior year, Jeff Foote coming out of nowhere (thanks to Khaliq's injury), and Dale somehow flying under the radar.

In regards to the A-10, aside from all of those schools having scholarships to offer, I have no idea what list of schools you're looking at but I would venture to say about half of them have football. Off the top of my head Temple, Rhode Island, Dayton, Richmond and UMass all have football and scholarship football on top of that. Now they don't compete in the A-10 for football but your arguement for dropping football makes no sense there

phillysportsfan
I wouldnt mind seeing us drop football and devote more of those resources to basketball especially, hockey and lacrosse. Look at the A-10 schools, I dont think any of them have football ...

You are incorrect; half of them have football, though they don't compete as the A-10. Most of the teams that do have football compete in I-AA, same as the Ivy League (Temple is in the D-I MAC). The A-10 football teams are spread out across conferences: Patriot (Fordham), Colonial (UMass, URI, Richmond) , Pioneer (Dayton), NEC (Duquesne). Charlotte, GW, LaSalle, St. Joe's, St. Bonaventure, Saint Louis and Xavier don't have football.

Yes, the Atlantic 10 conference has 14 teams. TAKE THAT, Big "10".

Footballscoop is saying Kent Austin is the selection, which should be welcome news to the Cornell football players.

Ken711
Footballscoop is saying Kent Austin is the selection, which should be welcome news to the Cornell football players.

I don't think I'd seen his name mentioned before. Austin has spent the last two seasons as the offensive coordinator at Mississippi (where he also played QB back in the '80s), and before that had a long career as a player and coach in the CFL. He's only spent one year as a head coach, and that in the CFL, but in that year he led the Saskatchewan Roughriders to a Grey Cup championship and won the CFL's coach of the year award.

Josh '99

Ken711
Footballscoop is saying Kent Austin is the selection, which should be welcome news to the Cornell football players.

I don't think I'd seen his name mentioned before. Austin has spent the last two seasons as the offensive coordinator at Mississippi (where he also played QB back in the '80s), and before that had a long career as a player and coach in the CFL. He's only spent one year as a head coach, and that in the CFL, but in that year he led the Saskatchewan Roughriders to a Grey Cup championship and won the CFL's coach of the year award.

The Cornell appointment is already in Austin's Wikipedia entry: [en.wikipedia.org]

Josh '99

Ken711
Footballscoop is saying Kent Austin is the selection, which should be welcome news to the Cornell football players.

I don't think I'd seen his name mentioned before. Austin has spent the last two seasons as the offensive coordinator at Mississippi (where he also played QB back in the '80s), and before that had a long career as a player and coach in the CFL. He's only spent one year as a head coach, and that in the CFL, but in that year he led the Saskatchewan Roughriders to a Grey Cup championship and won the CFL's coach of the year award.

Two straight picks from Ole Miss? Let's hope this one works out better.

ugarte

phillysportsfan
I wouldnt mind seeing us drop football and devote more of those resources to basketball especially, hockey and lacrosse. Look at the A-10 schools, I dont think any of them have football ...

You are incorrect; half of them have football, though they don't compete as the A-10. Most of the teams that do have football compete in I-AA, same as the Ivy League (Temple is in the D-I MAC). The A-10 football teams are spread out across conferences: Patriot (Fordham), Colonial (UMass, URI, Richmond) , Pioneer (Dayton), NEC (Duquesne). Charlotte, GW, LaSalle, St. Joe's, St. Bonaventure, Saint Louis and Xavier don't have football.

Yes, the Atlantic 10 conference has 14 teams. TAKE THAT, Big "10".

Yeah I am stupid, I guess I was thinking of there being no A-10 football conference.

From CornellBigRed.com
ITHACA, N.Y. -- The Cornell University Department of Athletics and Physical Education will hold a press conference tomorrow (Wednesday, Jan. 27) at 10 a.m. in the Hall of Fame Room of Schoellkopf Memorial Hall to announce the Big Red's 26th head football coach in school history. Live video of the press conference will be available at www.CornellBigRed.com.

Taking this long, having to convince a guy to take the job and picking someone who spent most of his career in the CFL is a huge mistake not only for Cornell football but for Kent Austin.

Article from Jackson, MS Clarion Ledger

[blogs.clarionledger.com]

Hopefully he'll be able to live up to our expectations as well as Ole Miss did to their preseason ranking last year!

Welcome aboard Coach Austin!

I liked this quote:

Recruiting was never really Austin’s strong point, and he told me several times that it was “interesting” trying to woo athletes in the SEC.

That being said, Austin should be a very good fit at Cornell. It’s an Ivy League school and Austin has an Ivy League-caliber brain. It’s not that Austin can’t recruit — it’s just that the wild and wacky world of the SEC sometimes drove him crazy. Recruiting to Cornell shouldn’t be quite as complicated, though I’m sure it will present its own challenges. As far as Xs and Os, Austin is very talented.

Also the replies to the blog suggests that a lot of fans had very good feelings about him. A few comments like "I am now Cornell’s number one fan." That's a good sign.

They implied he did this for better family life, and might have taken a pay cut. But then they talk about him possibly going back if the head coaching job opens up.