Cornell football ambivalence

Even for a hockey site, the fate of the football team seems to be of only passing interest. (Al DeFlorio, you still care.) Could it be that we've come to believe that never, ever in our lives will we see a Cornell team be the undisputed Ivy champion? Do students still care about football? The two early season games I saw in Ithaca had nice turnouts but the weather was okay and for one Cornell was giving out free food in parking lot. (Actually, come to recall, it was raining off and on, but it was nice at the end of the game.) It was probably not such good turnouts in November.

Here we recall who hit the freakin' goalpost in a game ten years ago that kept us from advancing in hockey, but hardly any talk of football present or past. What gives?

Personally, I think I care a little bit less about Cornell football every time someone claims that people don't care enough about Cornell football.

I also tend to roll my eyes at posts on any discussion board or mailing list that, instead of try to jump-start discussion by offering a topic, a question, or a reminiscence, ask why nobody else is offering topics, asking questions, or starting discussions. But maybe that's just me.

billhoward
Here we recall who hit the freakin' goalpost in a game ten years ago that kept us from advancing in hockey, but hardly any talk of football present or past. What gives?

We like hockey more than football?

Here's my perspective.

Football below the professional level offers me very little: I have a hard time enjoying college football in general, and Ivy League football is several rungs below Divison 1-A college football... and the gap between even the best college teams and the NFL is absolutely glaring.

I don't get that feeling from watching college hockey. I don't get the feeling that the worst pro team would annihilate the best college team. Maybe it would, but the point is that the game is as enjoyable as, and seems just as fast as (and in some cases faster than) the professional game. It doesn't seem like I'm watching something second-rate.

It's also significant that Cornell is actually nationally-competitive in hockey. If Ivy League football were actually competitive at the national level, I might be interested in it: but the fact is that they are not. They would get their asses whupped, without reservation or doubt on my part, by any of the top teams in Divison 1-A. As a result, Ivy League football is somewhat like my own hockey leagues: fun and rewarding for the players involved, but not really qualifying as a spectator sport deserving of outside attention.

Kyle

Kyle Rose
They would get their asses whupped, without reservation or doubt on my part, by any of the top teams in Divison 1-A.

I'm too lazy to look it up, but it was, what? 66-14 to Stanford? And they're generally a laughingstock within the Pac-10, which is either the 5th or 6th best BCS league (ACC doesn't have a USC, but is slightly more sold top-to-bottom).

I really think that my high school team in Tennessee (38-2 in my four years, with a front line that averaged ~270) could have give Cornell a run for its money - both on the field and in attendance.

In a world without postseason eligibility, there's not a whole lot to talk about once the football team loses twice. Couple that with the complete lack of Cornell football tradition and the fact that the uneven financial playing field will have a tremendous impact on football (to Cornell's disadvantage) makes it difficult to really get into bad college football.

To me, Cornell football was summed up to me at the end of the first game of the '02 season at Bucknell. I was at the game with about four or five other Cornellians and we were making noise behind the Cornell bench and Angry Pete Combe turned around waving a towel and said something to the effect of, "Cornell football. We may suck, but at least we're fun to watch."

Robb

Kyle Rose
They would get their asses whupped, without reservation or doubt on my part, by any of the top teams in Divison 1-A.

I'm too lazy to look it up, but it was, what? 66-14 to Stanford? And they're generally a laughingstock within the Pac-10, which is either the 5th or 6th best BCS league (ACC doesn't have a USC, but is slightly more sold top-to-bottom).

56-6. To be fair, that was 1991 when they were 8-4, ranked #17, went to the Aloha Bowl, and were coached by Dennis Green (OK, the last part isn't really a plus anymore), as opposed to the Walt Harris coached 1-11 crapfest from two years ago. And that year UW split for the national title, so the Pac10 was a little better.

We play crummy teams, and they don't even let us go to a playoff game if we did do well. It's like being the best shoveller at the pig farm. Who really cares?

This is a good place to point out the Cornell football reference on last Friday's PTI. Brent Musburger was the guest on "Five Good Minutes" and the last question that Boston homer Bob Ryan asked him was "who ya got in the 125th Harvard-Yale Game?" To which Musburger feigned outrage: "Harvard or Yale? Neither! Cornell! Who's better in the Ivy League this year than Cornell??" And that was the only correction that was made by Stat-boy in the "Errors" part of the show's close.

Jeff Hopkins '82
We play crummy teams, and they don't even let us go to a playoff game if we did do well. It's like being the best shoveller at the pig farm. Who really cares?

Frankly, I do. I sat in the stands in 20 degree weather on Saturday to watch the Penn-Cornell game. I like the history. I like the tradition. I also like the fact that the highest honor that is attainable is the league championship. It lends more weight to it, and to each league game. That's our goal. Screw the national mumbo-jumbo.

I've heard stories about the students tearing down the goalpost and throwing it into the gorge in '88 and '90. I'm still waiting for that to happen again, and it'd be nice to see someday.

RichH
I've heard stories about the students tearing down the goalpost and throwing it into the gorge in '88 and '90. I'm still waiting for that to happen again, and it'd be nice to see someday.

I guarantee you that if Cornell were to win the National Championship in hockey again, Cornell fans would storm the ice, seamless glass/security guards or no. Hell, I'll be the first one over the glass, no matter where the game is held. Now that is a day worth waiting for.

Kyle Rose

RichH
I've heard stories about the students tearing down the goalpost and throwing it into the gorge in '88 and '90. I'm still waiting for that to happen again, and it'd be nice to see someday.

I guarantee you that if Cornell were to win the National Championship in hockey again, Cornell fans would storm the ice, seamless glass/security guards or no. Hell, I'll be the first one over the glass, no matter where the game is held. Now that is a day worth waiting for.

You mistook the phrase "nice to see" to mean something else. If Cornell were to win a hockey National Championship again, I maintain that there would be plenty of CU fans willing to fling ourselves from the 3rd deck onto the ice of whatever NHL arena in pure, unadulterated ecstasy. I have daydreams about it. Often.

RichH
I've heard stories about the students tearing down the goalpost and throwing it into the gorge in '88 and '90. I'm still waiting for that to happen again, and it'd be nice to see someday.

Yup, I helped do that in '88. My only regret is that people weren't carrying around little digital cameras and posting photos of fantastic events like that on Facebook yet.

I went to the Cornell-Penn game. After it was over I didn't really feel like talking about it.

RichH
This is a good place to point out the Cornell football reference on last Friday's PTI. Brent Musburger was the guest on "Five Good Minutes" and the last question that Boston homer Bob Ryan asked him was "who ya got in the 125th Harvard-Yale Game?" To which Musburger feigned outrage: "Harvard or Yale? Neither! Cornell! Who's better in the Ivy League this year than Cornell??" And that was the only correction that was made by Stat-boy in the "Errors" part of the show's close.

Remember when Brent Musberger used to be the fresh young face of TV sports? Now he's ready to ease on to Sixty Minutes.

billhoward
Remember when Brent Musberger used to be the fresh young face of TV sports? Now he's ready to ease on to Sixty Minutes.

No, because it was before I was born. In addition, he started doing NFL games at an age older than I am now. The dude was born in the 1930s, bill. Now he's just a human drinking game.

I went to the cornell-penn game. After it was over I couldn't feel my fingers or feet.

Honestly, if the team is going to play like they did in that game, no one is going to talk about them. Nobody wants to sit in 20-degree weather watching them stink up the field. It's the same reason no one talked about Cornell basketball before next year: they weren't good. If Cornell starts playing better, watch how quickly people will start caring.

RichH

billhoward
Remember when Brent Musberger used to be the fresh young face of TV sports? Now he's ready to ease on to Sixty Minutes.

No, because it was before I was born. In addition, he started doing NFL games at an age older than I am now. The dude was born in the 1930s, bill. Now he's just a human drinking game.

"You are looking LIVE at sold out Lambeau Field, in Green Bay, Wisconsin..."

(Sorry, I can't remember the name of the place the Vikings used to play in Bloomington. Guess I could have gone with Milwaukee County Field, where the Packers used to play a few games a year.)

RichH

Jeff Hopkins '82
We play crummy teams, and they don't even let us go to a playoff game if we did do well. It's like being the best shoveller at the pig farm. Who really cares?

Frankly, I do. I sat in the stands in 20 degree weather on Saturday to watch the Penn-Cornell game. I like the history. I like the tradition. I also like the fact that the highest honor that is attainable is the league championship. It lends more weight to it, and to each league game. That's our goal. Screw the national mumbo-jumbo.

I've heard stories about the students tearing down the goalpost and throwing it into the gorge in '88 and '90. I'm still waiting for that to happen again, and it'd be nice to see someday.

I agree completely with Rich that the focus on the league title, and big rivalry games, is a plus in Ivy League football. I was a huge football fan as an undergraduate, but it's a lot harder now, in part because of the team's futility. I dragged a friend from DC to Philly for last year's Cornell-Penn game, and sat in the cold watching the slaughter and hearing her complain about how much Ivy Football sucks. The last excitement I remember was the Penn game at Schoellkopf in 2000, when we lucked into an Ivy Title showdown with Penn, which may also have been the first time the Trustees Cup was awarded. On the other hand, even when the team went 2-5 in league (4-6 overall) in 1989, the second Ivy win came Thanksgiving Day on ESPN in the snow at Franklin Field, and it was worth the train ride from Long Island. On the other other hand, I also care less about the NFL now, and generally find football less interesting than I did as a kid.

Oh, and to answer Bill's question, I still remember a Big Red wide receiver being pulled down at the 5 yard line as time expired to prevent a comeback win against Dartmouth (50 years after the 5th down game) and keep us from an undefeated season and an unshared Ivy title.

I think you have to really love football and/or really love the tradition of Ivy football to sit through these games. There are just too many reasons for the casual fan to not give a damn about the football team, whether it be style of play, quality of the team, lack of a postseason, etc.

I went to games because I love football and love Cornell, some people need more than that.

No one has pointed out that the thread title mistook "ambivalence" for "apathy"? This is not the elynah I remember!

I've never really cared about Cornell football, except in the sense that I enjoy football itself as entertainment. If the team goes 0-7 every year for the next century, I won't be particularly bothered--but if I'm in town, I'll be there to watch.

jtwcornell91
(Sorry, I can't remember the name of the place the Vikings used to play in Bloomington. Guess I could have gone with Milwaukee County Field, where the Packers used to play a few games a year.)

In that booming metropolis, Metropolitan Stadium.

If Cornell had a winning tradition of football, fans might get more worked up about it. But except for a few brief stretches here and there (i.e.the early '50s, the Marinaro Era, etc.) our football program has been mired in mediocrity. That's why fans get more passionate about hockey, and to a lesser degree, lacrosse. It's also the same reason why no one really got too worked up over the mediocre basketball teams we've had for most of the past 40 or so years.

ugarte

jtwcornell91
(Sorry, I can't remember the name of the place the Vikings used to play in Bloomington. Guess I could have gone with Milwaukee County Field, where the Packers used to play a few games a year.)

In that booming metropolis, Metropolitan Stadium. The Mall of America

Fixed your post.