Goodbye Alumni Fields...

Hello new field hockey stadium?!

[www.cornellbigred.com]

I have a strange feeling this will just be leftover parts from Schoellkopf.

Tom Tone
Hello new field hockey stadium?!

[www.cornellbigred.com]

I have a strange feeling this will just be leftover parts from Schoellkopf.

You make the call, ELF posters: More, or less, of a waste of money and space than the new wrestling facility?

Can you really call something that holds 300 people a "stadium"?

Josh '99
You make the call, ELF posters: More, or less, of a waste of money and space than the new wrestling facility?

Which team would you rather look at?

Josh '99
You make the call, ELF posters: More, or less, of a waste of money and space than the new wrestling facility?

Hm. What I gleaned from the article is that the changeover to FieldTurf on Schoellkopf makes that field not appropriate for the speedy surface needed/preferred in Field Hockey, and astroturf is the standard. Other schools have done the exact same thing when converting to FieldTurf:

[media.www.kentnewsnet.com]
[thedartmouth.com]

The Dartmouth
The additional resources...allows for the construction of a separate field with AstroTurf, an almost essential surface for college field hockey.

...it is extremely difficult for field hockey teams to practice and play on anything but AstroTurf, where the ball can move swiftly and evenly at all times.

Harper originally believed it would be a crushing blow to the field hockey program, which endured some tough times during the fall 2006 season, if Scully-Fahey did not contain an AstroTurf surface.

“It would be extremely detrimental and could even be the demise of the program. There was nowhere to shuttle them around. I’m afraid that we wouldn’t get teams to come play us and they might have to play away,” she said.

So it sounds like a necessary addition. The wrestling team had adequate facilities with Newman Arena.

Ben Rocky '04

Josh '99
You make the call, ELF posters: More, or less, of a waste of money and space than the new wrestling facility?

Which team would you rather look at?

That's a false framing of the issue. I could've looked at either team just as easily at their previous facilities.

Two words: Title IX.

Josh '99

Tom Tone
Hello new field hockey stadium?!

[www.cornellbigred.com]

I have a strange feeling this will just be leftover parts from Schoellkopf.

You make the call, ELF posters: More, or less, of a waste of money and space than the new wrestling facility?

While I hate to see natural grass and practice space converted to turf anywhere, it does seem this was a necessary move if field turf was to become a reality at Schoellkopf. Ask any member of the football/sprint, or either lacrosse team what it was like to play/practice on Schoellkopf after field hockey hosed down the already awful turf and you know they're all thrilled to see a designated field hockey "stadium".

RichH
The wrestling team had adequate facilities with Newman Arena.

Adequate is the functional word. Lynah was adequate before it's renovation, however if you want to stay up with the rest (say nothing about adding seats) then it was worth it. Considering that wrestling is one of our most impressive NCAA teams, and that it was privately funded, I'd say it was well worth it. I only wish they had connected it to the field house/weight room. It would have been nice to walk over sometimes.

Jim Hyla
Adequate is the functional word.

Agreed. It's also a subjective word.

OK, you mention Lynah renovation. I recall at least one person on this board calling for a North Dakota-like hockey palace to be built out by the equestrian center. Thank goodness that didn't happen. The Lynah renovation, compared to the new wrestling facility, is conservative, and only gobbled up a small parking lot. It upgraded the locker rooms, coaching offices, and training areas so they would be on par with many similar programs while keeping the adequate playing surface adequate.

In contrast, the wrestling center replaced a facility that was a little over 10 years old. A facility that was well designed to house multiple athletic teams. A facility that was already on par with many other leading programs.

As far as funding, I'm very happy it was done with private money. Terrific that the university didn't have to open up the checkbook at all. The valuable land it sits on, however, was not donated privately. That space could have been used for something much more useful to a much larger portion of the university community. (Some ideas: a tennis bubble, a swimming & diving facility that would replace the INadequate facilities that exist on campus...)

Jim uses the phrase "if you want to stay up with the rest..." Friedman was, and remains 6 years after its opening, the nation's only arena solely for wresting. This wasn't about keeping up with your competition. This was about blasting them out of the water. Newman arena was a modern, impressive, and capable wrestling facility as it was.

You say that wrestling is one of our most impressive NCAA teams. I can't argue with that, and I'm proud of that fact and their accomplishments. But is that reason enough to reward them with a palace when they had excellent facilities already? Why should the swimming and diving teams continue to suffer? The Teagle Hall pool may be adequate for 1950s competition. It isn't even modern dimensions. These are student athletes too, and this argument sends a message that we value winning and intercollegiate success over taking care of the needs of all student-athletes at Cornell.

Jeff Hopkins '82
Two words: Title IX.

That's more like a word and some letters. Or maybe a word and a number of sorts.

I'm always amazed at how some discussion goes. We start out asking if upgrading, maybe essential upgrading, a minor sport like field hockey is more wasteful and then complain about a beautiful wrestling upgrade, and end up wondering why another minor sport like swimming didn't get the money.

Frankly, I'm happy whenever the U is able to upgrade a facility, assuming it's done in a way fitting with the rest of the U. You may argue that the money for wrestling would have been better spent on another sport, but that was not going to happen. What was done seems to have had a major positive effect upon the program. I wonder if some of our negatives about wrestling are spill overs from feelings about the AD. I'd hope those feelings could be kept separate, and we could really enjoy how impressive their performance has been. Anytime we can knock heads with the big boys, and be successful, we should rejoice.

Finally, I'm of the opinion that what helps one program, eventually helps all programs. The more we can get the Cornell name out, and the more it's recognized by high school students for athletics and academics, the easier it will be to get that student-athlete in that minor sport.

CowbellGuy

Jeff Hopkins '82
Two words: Title IX.

That's more like a word and some letters. Or maybe a word and a number of sorts.

Yeah, but when I wrote it "Title Nine" it just looked wrong.

Instead of it simply being wrong

Jim Hyla
I wonder if some of our negatives about wrestling are spill overs from feelings about the AD. I'd hope those feelings could be kept separate, and we could really enjoy how impressive their performance has been.

An excellent point, Jim. While you didn't directly accuse me of basing my argument on it, it's no secret what my feelings are about our AD. That said, I can assure you that my argument here was completely separate of any emotional personal issues I have with any individual. My feelings would be identical if there were a state-of-the-art hockey or lacrosse facility constructed on (what's left of) Alumni Fields. I only answered Josh's question of this thread. I believe Friedman was a more unnecessary addition than the coming Field Hockey facility. That's all.

And don't accuse me of not supporting the wrestling team or failing to celebrate their successes. Nothing I said was negative about the wrestling program itself. I'll say it again: I'm excited about where that program is, and am thrilled that they represent my university so well.

If I recall, wasn't Stephen Friedman a prominent wrestler at Cornell who then went on to have lots o' money, some of which he donated to have the Friedman [Wrestling] Center built? If so, it's not like Cornell Athletics would have been able to use the money that gave us the Friedman Center to build the Friedman Natatorium. Wasn't the Friedman Center a "you should build this with my money" gift and not a "we're going to build this, and we'd like your money in order to do so" gift?

When I start bestowing endowments after I have amassed my fortune, I'm absolutely going to couple demands that are insane enough to be prominent with donations that are too large to turn down -- such as a mosaic of a Big Red mermaid at the bottom of the swimming pool in the Jerseygirl Natatorium. Just saying.

Jerseygirl
such as a mosaic of a Big Red mermaid at the bottom of the swimming pool in the Jerseygirl Natatorium

I predict that this will be a Huggie Bear with fins

Bish plz...the mermaid will be crafted in my image. With a red tail and big red "C"s on her shell bra. And surrounded by a shimmering aura of gold-flecked tiles.

RichH
And don't accuse me of not supporting the wrestling team or failing to celebrate their successes. Nothing I said was negative about the wrestling program itself. I'll say it again: I'm excited about where that program is, and am thrilled that they represent my university so well.

I didn't mean to imply that you were critical of the team, but rather that the general tone, on elf, when wrestling is discussed (other than when discussing a match) tends to be negative. I thought that might be a spill-over from the AD issue. And I didn't mean to point fingers at anyone in particular.

I don't think it is directly a Title IX issue. If the Field Hockey team needs AstroTurf to compete, and we want to field a Field Hockey team, then we will need AstroTuft to compete.

On the other hand, building the stadium on Alumni Fields, when the fields will obviously be used for academic purposes in the coming years, seems to be a tad short-sighted. See also the recent Hoy Field investments.

but even the long range planning admits that its likely 10-20 yrs before much of it happens. In addition they have large areas like B lot that could be converted to parking garage and buildings as well as the large scale building plans for the orchards and East hill. A few 100K spent now when the area may not be used for 10 yrs isnt really an issue. and whats the plan for the baseball fields? since they are not costing the university anything and the gates building isnt going there it doesnt seem to be going anywhere too soon.

See the July-August Cornell Alumni News for its cover story, Tomorrowland, about Cornell's 50-year master plan. It's breathtaking with the exception of there being no outdoor sports facilities on the core campus as we know it except for Schoellkopf. If you can live with Lower Alumni Field being taken for academic buildings (okay, that was the 1970s, I believe) and now Upper Alumni Field becoming Alumni Quad, it's breathtaking.

The plan talks about there being a Collegetown campus segment, but I think that's the area where Cornell ought to spend more effort. Over 50 years, Cornell could buy up all houses along the gorge and create academic buildings or residences or both.

Princeton is a far smaller place and still you have to admire how Princeton has woven athletic facilties tightly with the academic buildings.

Does Cornell have the audicity over the next 50 years to replace Schoellkopf with a field-only, no-track facility seating say 25,000 ... and put it under a dome?

billhoward
Princeton is a far smaller place and still you have to admire how Princeton has woven athletic facilties tightly with the academic buildings.

Is it really, though? Princeton's campus is (officially) 600 acres while Cornell's is 745, but they've got just 7,000 students while Cornell has almost 20,000 in Ithaca. It's a lot easier to build your facilities closer together if those facilities only have to be sufficient for a third as many people.

Does Cornell have the money over the next 50 years to replace Schoellkopf with a field-only, no-track facility seating say 25,000 ... and put it under a dome?

Fixed your post.

That said, I vote no on the dome idea. The view from Schoellkopf of the valley, lake, and surrounding hillsides is pure bliss. Plus the Ithaca weather gives us a nice home field advantage.

and whats the plan for the baseball fields?

I believe the proposed plan is to lengthen Garden Road all the way to Hoy Road along the length of the parking garage. This will alleviate traffic congestion at the corner of Hoy and Campus Road, and allow the Engineering Quad to expand onto the baseball field when needed.

The men's baseball field will probably be put up by Oxley.

mnagowski
Plus the Ithaca weather gives us a nice home field advantage.

Seriously. Hearing the Syracuse lacrosse team bitch and whine about playing in the cold, wet, windy weather on slippery turf every other year is worth sitting outside for cold November football games.

the baseball complex is planned to be a mini stadium out at the east hill complex with all the other ath fields, no view from there but at least the balls dont fly into the buildings and cars.

upperdeck
the baseball complex is planned to be a mini stadium out at the east hill complex with all the other ath fields, no view from there but at least the balls dont fly into the buildings and cars.

I'd love that to be true. I'd also love to see a project where the city and Cornell build a place nice enough to attract a minor league team (NYP level). Anyone want to buy the Batavia Muckdogs and move them to Ithaca?

Fifteen year ago, Cornell Alumni Magazine (RIP 2021) did a cover story, Tomorrowland, on Cornell's master plan for the next fifty years. We're almost a third of the way to the end game.

Since Cornell plans to increase the student population as well as research facilities, which calls for more dorms and classrooms, the on-campus athletic facilities are endangered. Lower Alumni Field, across from Barton Hall/ILR Quad, went away circa 1975 for an academic building I still have to look up the name. Right, Comstock Hall. I never forgot that for most of Cornell's history it was Lower Alumni Field. Then the Upper Alumni Fields land grab: Weill Hall and the Biotechnology Building, leaving only 3 fields for team practice plus the Kane sports complex. And kicking intramural sports off main campus.

I was intrigued by ChimpFood's post on Cornell Baseball 2024 about the field's location and amenities:

chimpfood
I went to my first Cornell baseball game of the year today ...

As for the new field, I don’t love it. The one thing that I do like is the vibe of literally being out in the middle of a field playing baseball. To start the negatives off, the place was no more than 15 percent full [Cornell says 500 seating--Ed] but the parking lot had no spots so I had to park at the soccer practice fields and walk about a quarter of a mile through a field of tall grass to get the the field. It wasn’t too bad today but on a wetter day or in the late spring when it is overgrown that just won’t be feasible. Oh, and you can’t find the field on Apple Maps or google maps so you better just remember where it is. Saving the most obvious for last, it is just too far out of the way. It was nice seeing some older people and families out there but there were almost no students, presumably due to the location. I miss the central location of Hoy field and I have so many good memories of biking to the top of the parking garage and watching games from there. The new facilities and buildings out at Booth seem nice but I would have much preferred they stayed at Hoy.

I did find Booth Field on Google Maps, but it didn't show on all of the map overlays. As in the photo below. When I asked for directions, Google relented and popped up an icon for the field. I bet East Hill Plaza will be the overflow parking lot, 7/10 of a mile away.

Photo below: The former Hoy Field is in the upper left corner. Booth Field is due east of East-Hill Plaza (marked Walgreen) in lower right of photo, off Ellis Hollow Road (Route 110). The road running North-South on the right side is Game Farm Road.

Seems crazy to have the baseball field that far away.

Consider the possibility that all Cornell sports will be exiled – sorry, relocated – to a more distant location.

There is certainly plenty of room at the McGovern Fields complex for more varsity sports. You can fit a soccer / lacrosse field plus sidelines in 2 acres, plus stands. There would certainly be more room for a 50-meter pool there than on campus. The tennis center and polo barns are already in the general vicinity, on Pine Tree Road.

Not to encourage Cornell but many of the Ivies have sports at some remove from campus. Dartmouth and Princeton would be the biggest exceptions.

The Yale Bowl complex and most Yale field sports, including the very nice Reese Stadium (3,000 seats) for lacrosse and soccer, are 2 miles west of the Yale academic campus. The intramural fields are also there, and there's a shuttle bus, Yale says.

Harvard Stadium, Bright Hockey Center and Jordan Field (lacrosse, soccer) are a half-mile walk from Harvard Yard.

I'm not sure how much the athletics side of things and the idea of a unified, contiguous campus (academics, research, athletics, intramurals/club sports, fitness, nature) was heard.

If Cornell planned to move more sports off-campus, the Meinig field house might not have been sited on Upper Alumni Field.

You'd have to figure that if more sites are relocated to there, they'd probably add parking, too.

Jeff Hopkins '82
You'd have to figure that if more sites are relocated to there, they'd probably add parking, too.

You'd think. One suspects Cornell downplayed the need for parking. Two miles is too long of a walk from the old Hoy Field and there's no bus service, I believe.

Parking has been a hot button for Cornell. Recall the "Rosebud Woods" controversy circa 2005 about relocating ~175 parking spaces near to campus as part of West Campus redevelopment. As part of the settlement that got the land cleared, students of the era got free bus passes. Which went away after students of the era graduated.

There was also significant protest against Cornell's plan to create faculty parking under the Arts Quad in the early 1970s. Tempers cooled after it turned out to the Daily Sun's spoof issue.

[en.wikipedia.org]

All students get free bus passes all over the city now. you can bus up to EHP.

Its not that far. compare it to many colleges.

Look at PSU football. from the center of many of those dorms its a mile to the stadium. from the center of Cornell campus its just over a 1.5 miles to baseball.

Look at Syracuse soccer/softball fields. Thats about 1.5 from center of campus as well.

Now kids live on north campus its a haul for sure.

upprdeck
All students get free bus passes all over the city now. you can bus up to EHP.

Its not that far. compare it to many colleges.

Look at PSU football. from the center of many of those dorms its a mile to the stadium. from the center of Cornell campus its just over a 1.5 miles to baseball.

Look at Syracuse soccer/softball fields. Thats about 1.5 from center of campus as well.

Now kids live on north campus its a haul for sure.

UCLA plays football in the Rose Bowl.According to Google Maps, the fastest route is 26.5 miles and at least 39 min. via freeways. But then again, maybe that's why I only went to one UCLA football game when I was a graduate student there. (This and the facts that student seats were expensive and in the nosebleed sections.)

Playing at Booth Field seems to agree with the team. Cornell has a 7-2 home record this year. Cornell baseball’s last Ivy title was back in 2012