selection sunday on now.....

welp, we know we're not #13 in the east region....

not #14 in the east either....

means we are not playing in Raleigh, NC.

Midwest is coming up, with possible locations: Tampa or Anaheim for (13/14 seed)

We're not anywhere in the east.

More (bad) commercials

not in the midwest

Siena gets a 13 seed...

Not 14 in Midwest either.

we got denver, d.c., tampa as our only remaining locations, assuming we're a 13/14

wasn't anaheim an option?

not anymore, site where Anaheim would have been an option has already been seeded, and Cornell was not in it

Not in Denver

denver is out. d.c. or tampa

I'd be really surprised if we were as low as a 14. I'm expecting a 13.

ouch, were in Anaheim aginst stanford as a #14 seed

Anaheim ... We play Stanford.

Ouch

Anaheim v. the Cardinal from Stanford.

If anyone gets tickets and doesn't want to go I'd probably take them.

how do the locations work? I was following what ESPN had for locations, which is why i thought it was just d.c. or tampa

I wonder if Georgia winning the SEC bumped Cornell down to a #14 seed.

Or Temple winning the A10 for that matter.

Rough draw.

And we're 1 seven-footer short of covering both Lopez brothers.

Pretty disappointing. I was hoping we'd face an inconsistent Big East team like Notre Dame or Louisville. This is a tough, tough draw.

So much for getting a big turnout of Cornell fans. Anaheim is quite a haul from the Northeast.

Is the NCAA selection a human-based process or is it a statistics-based mathematical formula?

Oat
Is the NCAA selection a human-based process or is it a statistics-based mathematical formula?

Yes.

Does anyone know what time the games in Anaheim are on Thursday?

jaybert
how do the locations work? I was following what ESPN had for locations, which is why i thought it was just d.c. or tampa

The locations are "pods". Each "pod" has 8 teams, 4 of which are linked (i.e. 1 v. 16 and 8 v. 9 teams). However, the each pod can have 2 groups of teams from different regions (based on the master bracket).

What the NC$$ has been doing for about the past 4-5 years is placing teams, especially the higher seeds, in the pods location closest to their home to minimize travel.

Thus even though the "East region" has Tampa and DC hosting games, as pods Tampa is hosting a set of teams from the midwest and west brackets. Similarly, DC is hosting teams 2 sets of teams from the west. Traveling to DC is a lot easier for Xavier and Duke compared to Denver/Anaheim.

Humans make the selections and choose seeds, but often the final few spots in a tournament will come down to statistical formulas like the Ratings Percentage Index.

[en.wikipedia.org]

jtwcornell91
Does anyone know what time the games in Anaheim are on Thursday?

cannot find this information yet.

Greenberg '97

Oat
Is the NCAA selection a human-based process or is it a statistics-based mathematical formula?

Yes.

??? so what is it?

Oat

Greenberg '97

Oat
Is the NCAA selection a human-based process or is it a statistics-based mathematical formula?

Yes.

??? so what is it?

It's both.

There's usually 3 afternoon slots and 2 evening slots for the games. The evening slots are about 730pm (EDT) and 10pm (EDT)... give or take about 20 minutes. The afternoon slots start about noon, 230pm and 5pm EDT; again give or take 20 minutes. The west coast games get the later slots.

Game times won't get decided until CBS decided who it wants to feature at which times.

ahh, makes sense. Not sure why I thought each of the regions had set sites for the 1st/2nd rounds.

Rita

jaybert
how do the locations work? I was following what ESPN had for locations, which is why i thought it was just d.c. or tampa

The locations are "pods". Each "pod" has 8 teams, 4 of which are linked (i.e. 1 v. 16 and 8 v. 9 teams). However, the each pod can have 2 groups of teams from different regions (based on the master bracket).

What the NC$$ has been doing for about the past 4-5 years is placing teams, especially the higher seeds, in the pods location closest to their home to minimize travel.

Thus even though the "East region" has Tampa and DC hosting games, as pods Tampa is hosting a set of teams from the midwest and west brackets. Similarly, DC is hosting teams 2 sets of teams from the west. Traveling to DC is a lot easier for Xavier and Duke compared to Denver/Anaheim.

Jordan 04

Oat

Greenberg '97

Oat
Is the NCAA selection a human-based process or is it a statistics-based mathematical formula?

Yes.

??? so what is it?

It's both.

ESPN's Andy Katz (and some other people who cover college basketball), went to Bracket School where they played the role of the committee and tried to fill out the tournament field.

Well, so much for driving to DC or to Raleigh.

I hate Stanford. Grade inflation up the wazoo.

I also think it's lame that we're all the way in freaking Anaheim. Like that's fair. We'll have all of, what, five Cornell fans in attendance?

Where are we watching the game in NYC on Thursday? Ship Of Fools, anyone? Can we rent out the middle room, just like always?

HeafDog
Well, so much for driving to DC or to Raleigh.

I hate Stanford. Grade inflation up the wazoo.

I also think it's lame that we're all the way in freaking Anaheim. Like that's fair. We'll have all of, what, five Cornell fans in attendance?

Where are we watching the game in NYC on Thursday? Ship Of Fools, anyone? Can we rent out the middle room, just like always?

While it kinda sucks we're in the west, you can't really argue that the committee should be concerned about being 'fair' (and lets be honest 'fair' for 'your team' means special consideration) for a 14 seed with basically no chance. What are you saying, that we'd draw? Like the NCAA couldn't sell twice the tickets they have available anyway.

jtwcornell91
Does anyone know what time the games in Anaheim are on Thursday?

They usually don't announce the game times until Monday. With our luck they'll make Cornell the last game of the day in Anaheim, perhaps at 10 or 11 p.m. EST.

DeltaOne81
Like the NCAA couldn't sell twice the tickets they have available anyway.

Sure, but the NCAA shouldn't just be about selling tickets to the highest bidder. They should be about making sure that even schools like us get to have fun and participate, even if it's only once every twenty freaking years.

HeafDog

DeltaOne81
Like the NCAA couldn't sell twice the tickets they have available anyway.

Sure, but the NCAA shouldn't just be about selling tickets to the highest bidder. They should be about making sure that even schools like us get to have fun and participate, especially if it's only once every twenty freaking years.

FYP

HeafDog

DeltaOne81
Like the NCAA couldn't sell twice the tickets they have available anyway.

Sure, but the NCAA shouldn't just be about selling tickets to the highest bidder. They should be about making sure that even schools like us get to have fun and participate, even if it's only once every twenty freaking years.

Cornell will sell their 400 ticket allotment to LA area alumni without much trouble. There is no reason for the NCAA to give any consideration to traveling fans for the 14 seed.

I'd rather have had a 13, of course, but I don't see finishing behind Winthrop or San Diego - both of whom have better wins than we do - as a big deal.

And as for playing Stanford in the first round, I like this easy, lazy transitive: Cornell > Siena > Stanford.

stanford is a good draw for CU.. they are a team that tries to play big and doesnt really play outside D.. they stuff the inside.. CU will get all the 3's it wants.. the issue is can we rebound to stop 2nd chance pts.

It does suck that Cornell gets shipped west whereas Georgia (also a #14 seed) gets to go to DC despite a very poor regular season conference record (4-12 or something like that).

Yeah, Georgia did what they needed to do to get their conference's autobid, but still, it would have been nice if the committee somehow acknowledged Cornell's conference record and kept them in the Eastern time zone. Oh well.

HeafDog
I hate Stanford. Grade inflation up the wazoo.

I disagree, I feel it is a fine academic institution, the perfect followup for a studious young person after 4 years on the hill. The real injustice is that these two fine instituion must play each other in the first round of the tournament.

Rita
It does suck that Cornell gets shipped west whereas Georgia (also a #14 seed) gets to go to DC despite a very poor regular season conference record (4-12 or something like that).

Yeah, Georgia did what they needed to do to get their conference's autobid, but still, it would have been nice if the committee somehow acknowledged Cornell's conference record and kept them in the Eastern time zone. Oh well.

In all seriousness, Cornell's record all season doesn't all year doesn't compare to what Georgia did this past week. We are doubtful that we are going to beat Stanford and our best win was over 13 seed Siena. In the last four days Georgia beat a bubble team (Ole Miss), an 8 (Miss. St.), a 9 (Arkansas) and an 11 (Kentucky), not to mention regular season wins against Arkansas and USC (6 seed). Georgia got a 14 seed because they are 17-16, but I sure as hell don't think that Cornell would be the favorite if they played each other.

Also, someone asked if Georgia bumped us down to 14, but since they are a 14 also, I doubt it. The bigger win was probably Temple's win over St. Joes. Since Temple still only got a 12, while St. Joe was an 11, it is possible that St. Joe was in win or lose, but Temple needed the win to get an at-large bid.

Also, regarding common opponents (Harcard, Yale, Siena) Cornell is 5-0 and Stanford is 2-1.

Last year's Stanford/Louisville matchup meant it was Cardinal vs Cardinal, now it's Big Red vs Cardinal Red. I for one could do without these witty theme matchups.

During its founding, Stanford as a university was modeled largely after Cornell. Andy White was asked to be its first president, but he declined. Half of Stanford's original faculty members were from Cornell (probably eager to leave for California). Even "Cardinal Red" was modeled after "Big Red".

Sources:
http://www-ee.stanford.edu/history.php
http://www.stanford.edu/home/stanford/history/begin.html

From cornellbigred.com: "Cornell has just one senior on its roster and features four players with two more years of eligibility remaining after this year."

I thought that we had 5 players with 2 more years of eligibility...Wittman, Dale, Gore, Tyler and Foote...which one of them aren't counted? I'm guessing either Gore or Foote or maybe it's just a mistake because we have more sophomores on the team than just Dale, Wittman and Tyler anyway

I'm upset. The committee is not supposed to take previous years into account but they clearly did in the case of Winthrop.

I'm also peeved that Siena was placed ahead of Cornell.

San Diego is also questionable but I can live with it.
---

Cornell deserved the spot against Wash St. in Denver that was given to Winthrop. Instead, we get Stanford in Anaheim and its absolutely unfair.

---

I'm a Stanford grad student, so I've seen the Cardinal live a few times this season:

My thoughts- this is a very interesting matchup. Almost always, the mid major tries to slow the pace down and the high major tries to push it. This game will (or at least should) be the reverse. There is one way to beat Stanford- PRESSURE THEIR GUARDS. Their guards are not good ball handlers and can be forced into bad decisions. By pressuring them, you also make it more difficult for them to get the ball inside. I'm thinking Jason Battle could be important in this game, but Louis Dale is going to need to win his matchup with Mitch Johnson- and I think he can.

The Lopez twins are tough. Both are big, strong and smart. The reason Brook is a future lottery pick and Robin is not is basically that Brook can shoot. Robin has enough offensive game, though, to have a field day if guarded by Hartford or Tyler.

Cornell's best shot is to make this game into a hectic, fast paced, 3 pt shooting contest.

This is a very bad draw for Cornell and I'll say it again- I'm not happy.

Just to add another take to the difference between a 13 and 14 seed: according to Wikipedia, since the tournament expanded to 64 teams in 1985, the #3 seed has beaten the #14 seed 77 times out of 92 (84%), and the #4 seed has beaten the #13 seed 74 times (80%). I'd say that's small percentage difference.

I already envy those who can make it to Anaheim. LGR!

jksnake06

I'm a Stanford grad student, so I've seen the Cardinal live a few times this season:

My thoughts- this is a very interesting matchup. Almost always, the mid major tries to slow the pace down and the high major tries to push it. This game will (or at least should) be the reverse. There is one way to beat Stanford- PRESSURE THEIR GUARDS. Their guards are not good ball handlers and can be forced into bad decisions. By pressuring them, you also make it more difficult for them to get the ball inside. I'm thinking Jason Battle could be important in this game, but Louis Dale is going to need to win his matchup with Mitch Johnson- and I think he can.

The Lopez twins are tough. Both are big, strong and smart. The reason Brook is a future lottery pick and Robin is not is basically that Brook can shoot. Robin has enough offensive game, though, to have a field day if guarded by Hartford or Tyler.

Cornell's best shot is to make this game into a hectic, fast paced, 3 pt shooting contest.

This is a very bad draw for Cornell and I'll say it again- I'm not happy.

Basically what I would say too. Stanford got to where they are not by offense as much as defense. Down low the story is all Lopez. Brook has the offense advantage, while I think they are just as good on defense. One of the strengths is relying on the other team to double-team one while leaving the other open for an easy inside basket. Hill is also good, but not having the season he did last year.

Mitch Johnson definitely has a history of being mistake prone and sometimes seems to take more shots than he should; as a point and not shooting guard though he is able to get the job done though he may make a few bas turnovers over the course of the game. Goods, however, can get on a roll from the outside, especially with 3s. I don't think they are as bad defensively on the outside as people say, at least in terms of turnovers, though they may leave open more shots than they could, I just think the inside game is so much better that it makes people think the outside game is worse than it is.

Good draw or bad I don't know. But it would be seriously sweet if we could knock off Stanford (considering that I live in Stanford territory).

Its a good draw for CU. Standford's strength on D is inside play and CU doesnt need to take it in there to score. and CU has decent size for an IVY and hustles well to loose balls.. stay out of foul trouble and make a decent number of 3's and CU can make it close late. CU doesnt want to play a team that smothers you and stanford doesnt do that which means CU has a small shot. much better than playing someone like louisville who would play the up tempo pressing game..

line is somewhere around +15.5/16. Im waiting to see what the money line is...prolly gonna have a friend whose in vegas bet it for me.

jtwcornell91
Does anyone know what time the games in Anaheim are on Thursday?

According to Cornell Athletics:

"The Ivy League men's basketball champion Cornell Big Red will open 2008 NCAA tournament play as the No. 14 seed in the South region and will meet No. 3 seed Stanford out of the Pac-10 Conference on Thursday, March 20 in Anaheim, Calif. Game time will be approximately 2 p.m. PT (5 p.m. ET), or 25 minutes after the completion of the Marquette/Kentucky game set for 11:30 PT (2:30 ET)."

ech32
During its founding, Stanford as a university was modeled largely after Cornell. Andy White was asked to be its first president, but he declined. Half of Stanford's original faculty members were from Cornell (probably eager to leave for California). Even "Cardinal Red" was modeled after "Big Red".

Sources:
http://www-ee.stanford.edu/history.php
http://www.stanford.edu/home/stanford/history/begin.html

Revenge for raiding our faculty 117 years ago!! And again for raiding our physics department a few decades later! And that football loss in 1991. yeah.

"Harvard of the West" my ass. Cornell of the West. Say it!! Who's your daddy?

LELAND STANFORD (pause) JUNIOR UNIVERSITY. Nothing but a Junior University.

jksnake06
I'm upset. The committee is not supposed to take previous years into account but they clearly did in the case of Winthrop.

I'm also peeved that Siena was placed ahead of Cornell.

San Diego is also questionable but I can live with it.

These are all such close calls, but I can see why the committee went the way that they did.

Winthrop, this year, won at Miami (FL), beat NIT bound Akron and a Georgia Tech team with 7 ACC wins. They also played a much tougher schedule than we did, with losses on the road to Baylor and West Virginia and at home to Davidson. They have some bad losses, sure, but they showed that they can run with the big teams. Winthrop's past success probably didn't hurt them either, but I'm not sure that a track record against top competition is an altogether bad tiebreaker for 13 and 14.

It is true that Siena lost to us, but they had two high profile wins: over Stanford and, in the Bracket Busters, on the road against Boise State.

San Diego finished their season by beating St. Mary's and Gonzaga and had regular season wins against St. Mary's and Kentucky. They also played a much tougher schedule than Cornell, including one brutal stretch of four games that included UNLV, USC and South Alabama.

The toughest game we played this year was at Duke, and the only other game that compares was Siena at Memphis (but they lost by almost 50, so our showing at Cameron was clearly more impressive). Our second toughest opponent? Arguably Syracuse, possibly Siena. We lost to Colgate and Bucknell.

After actually looking at the teams we were being compared to, 14 seems just about right.

The good news is that they don't have any games against them. The bad news is that the 5:00 game is the only one that isn't televised on the east coast. CBS usually breaks for the local news until the 7:00 games.

So, who's organizing Ship of Fools?

And while we're on the subject, does anyone know where I can watch Cornell-Harvard hockey in Charleston, SC, the following day?

Greenberg '97
The good news is that they don't have any games against them. The bad news is that the 5:00 game is the only one that isn't televised on the east coast. CBS usually breaks for the local news until the 7:00 games.

So, who's organizing Ship of Fools?

And while we're on the subject, does anyone know where I can watch Cornell-Harvard hockey in Charleston, SC, the following day?

The ECAC semis are being carried live on the NHL Network, channel 215 on Direct TV. NHLN is on 24/7 so the sports bar should be able to determine that they have it (or not) quite easily.

Good luck finding a place!

And in the wee hours of Selection Sunday ... Brown was tabbed to play in the CBI, the tournament for the teams on the NIT bubble. They play Ohio in the first round, a team that beat Cornell 102-89 way back in November - before the Big Red learned how to play defense.

And before Jeff Foote was eligible...

ugarte
And in the wee hours of Selection Sunday ... Brown was tabbed to play in the CBI, the tournament for the teams on the NIT bubble. They play Ohio in the first round, a team that beat Cornell 102-89 way back in November - before the Big Red learned how to play defense.

There's a *third* tournament???

DeltaOne81

ugarte
And in the wee hours of Selection Sunday ... Brown was tabbed to play in the CBI, the tournament for the teams on the NIT bubble. They play Ohio in the first round, a team that beat Cornell 102-89 way back in November - before the Big Red learned how to play defense.

There's a *third* tournament???

Brown falls in their quest to be crowned the 98th best team in the nation by losing to Ohio in the opening round, 80-74, despite a 39-point effort from Damon Huffman.