[W. Hoops] 3-way tie for the Championship!

Dartmouth hockey broadcast reporting a 3-way tie for the Ivy title. This means that Harvard lost to Yale, and Dartmouth and Cornell won.

Cornell beats Princeton 76-59

First Ivy Championship ever for Women's Basketball!

Wow, that's great. Congratulations to the women's team.

Does anyone have a link to the full tiebreaking procedures in the Ivy League? A few years ago, when the men's teams for Princeton, Penn and Yale finished tied, there was a two-game playoff: Princeton vs. Yale, the winner vs. Penn. It was done this way because Penn had a superior head-to-head record, so they received a "first round bye".

That year, I read in an article, "The Ivy League is so fair-minded that it has tie-breaking procedures for an eight-team tie." At the time, I thought, "Let's not go so excited about fair-mindedness. If you're not going to have a postseason tournament, you have to prepare for every possibility." Given the history-making success of both Cornell basketball teams, I've finally seen that basketball is more exciting without a postseason tournament. (I have to imagine that a eight way tie would lead to some kind of tournament, which is why I would love to read the full tie breaking procedures.)

But for the women's teams this year, Cornell is 1-1 against Harvard and Dartmouth, D is 1-1 against H and C, and H is 1-1 against D and C. That's as close as you can get.

From cornellbigred.com:

"The three teams will play a series of one-game playoffs this Friday and Sunday, March 14 and 16, at Columbia’s Levien Gym to determine who will earn the Ivy League’s automatic berth to the NCAA tournament."

ech32
From cornellbigred.com:

"The three teams will play a series of one-game playoffs this Friday and Sunday, March 14 and 16, at Columbia’s Levien Gym to determine who will earn the Ivy League’s automatic berth to the NCAA tournament."

As in a round robin tournament?? What happens should all teams win once?

imafrshmn

ech32
From cornellbigred.com:

"The three teams will play a series of one-game playoffs this Friday and Sunday, March 14 and 16, at Columbia’s Levien Gym to determine who will earn the Ivy League’s automatic berth to the NCAA tournament."

As in a round robin tournament?? What happens should all teams win once?

Source: [ivyleaguesports.com]

Ivyleaguesports.com
The seeds are yet to be determined, because the tie-breaker failed to yield a resolution after Penn upset Columbia. The seeds will be determined by random draw in the coming days.

Makes it sound like a random drawing results in two games:

#3 vs #2
Winner vs #1

"Let's draw well! Let's draw well!"

That's a stupid system.

jdonofrio
That's a stupid system.

And what would you propose? A series of mini-games with most total points getting the bid? I'm glad they actually play the playoff and don't just pick a name out of a hat like in other sports. Also glad they're playing in NYC. My money was on Boston with any DC/CU matchup at H and any H game at one of the dozen local schools. Hope a lot of cornellians can get out to the game(s).

It's worth noting that the winner of the 2/3 game will likely get the NIT bid awarded to #2 in the conference. NIT gets to choose though so in theory a team like harvard might be more to their liking than say cornell... But as greg said, let's draw well.

The last time cornell was in a draw situation that I recall they lost in the PU/DC/CU mens lax title draw in '03.

jdonofrio
That's a stupid system.

It obviously wasn't the first choice for setting the schedule. If the Penn-Columbia game mattered, then there were obviously a head-to-head and record-against-top-X-teams to select the teams in the first game.

Chris '03
And what would you propose? A series of mini-games with most total points getting the bid?

Three halves, AB, BC, and CA, play on Friday. Lowest point total drops out, and the other two play a full game Sunday for the title.

Of course what I would really propose is that the Ivy men and women play a three day championship tournament at MSG with the two winning teams getting the autobids. That might even get two Ivy teams into the tournament some year.

Trotsky

Chris '03
And what would you propose? A series of mini-games with most total points getting the bid?

Three halves, AB, BC, and CA, play on Friday. Lowest point total drops out, and the other two play a full game Sunday for the title.

Of course what I would really propose is that the Ivy men and women play a three day championship tournament at MSG with the two winning teams getting the autobids. That might even get two Ivy teams into the tournament some year.

If that is unlikely in men's basketball - and it really is - it is totally laughable in women's basketball where we the Ivy champ far more often than not is a 15 or 16.

It's obviously a huge advantage for the "1 seed."

The fair way to do it would be to play game 2 at the homecourt of whoever wins game 1. That way, the team who only has to win 1 game would at least have to do it on the road.

Of course, due to logistics, this would never happen.

According to the CU athletics site schedule, Cornell received the bye...

[www.cornellbigred.com]

Adara
According to the CU athletics site schedule, Cornell received the bye...

[www.cornellbigred.com]

Fantastic (presuming the schedule is accurate)! Nothing from DC or the league, but Harvard's schedule now shows a Friday game against Dartmouth. [www.gocrimson.com]

The league site is now updated with the same info already stated on the CU and HU sites.

[www.ivyleaguesports.com]

I hope there's a good turnout on Sunday for the game. It'll end with enough time for everyone to head somewhere to catch the Selection show at 6pm.

Cornell won the bye...by virtue of a coin draw. Quarters from NY, NH, and Mass. were placed in a bag and out came the NY quarter first. Interesing way to decide who gets to rest Friday. Nice to see the women win! Congratulations!

Congratulations to the women's program, and good luck on Sunday.

But this just seems like a lousy way to determine who gets a bye. Each of the three teams had 1-1 records against each of the other two. Cornell's other loss was to Columbia, which finished 7-7 in the league. Dartmouth's other loss was also to Columbia. Harvard's other loss was to Yale, which finished 7-7 in the league. So there's no way to say that a loss to Columbia is "better" than a loss to Yale (and even if there were, Cornell and Dartmouth would still have been tied.)

A coin draw is an unsatisfying way to determine who gets a bye, even if Cornell did come out ahead (and I think that using state quarters does have its own charm.) Using margin of victory would have also been imperfect, but at least (pardon the pun) marginally better.

Cornell had a +21 margin in games against Harvard, and a +5 margin against Dartmouth. Harvard had a +8 margin against Dartmouth. This would mean the same result as the actual result: Cornell gets a first round bye. This probably wouldn't work as it encourages teams to run up the score.

Any other ideas, or is a random draw the best solution?

Point differential or totals is a really bad way to break ties, IMO. The fact is in the current situation the teams are basically identical in results. Saying that Cornell deserves a higher seed because they scored a couple more points than the other teams is silly. You're talking about statistical noise.

The best way to break ties is on the playing field, which will happen. Three way ties pretty much require a bye. *shrug*

Ticket info now up: [cornellbigred.com]

In short, tickets are $5. Students are free with ID and don't need a ticket.

Athletics is also sending a bus for $40 round trip. [cornellbigred.com]

No bus to Schenectady...

Don't see any broadcast info yet.

[sports.espn.go.com]

Bracketology is predicting the Ivy winner gets a 15 seed and plays against Rutgers in Connecticut. The best travel scenario for me would be the men going to DC, and the women winning Sunday and ending up in Maryland. CT wouldn't be a bad drive either.

Adara
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/bracketology

Bracketology is predicting the Ivy winner gets a 15 seed and plays against Rutgers in Connecticut. The best travel scenario for me would be the men going to DC, and the women winning Sunday and ending up in Maryland. CT wouldn't be a bad drive either.

Note that the Bridgeport group will include UConn and make tickets scarce outside of a potential CU allotment.

I agree, Keith, scoring margins is certainly a flawed method. It's too flawed, from what you are saying. At least it's tied to effort on the court, but I think you have a valid point about statistical noise.

Hey, if Cornell, Harvard or Dartmouth wanted to avoid this, the team should have won one more game. Good luck to Cornell; having TWO basketball teams in two NCAA tournaments from one school would be fantastic.