On to the semis: Cornell 12, Albany 11 (recap thread)

That game was amazing. I wasn't worried at the beginning of the game when we went down 3-0. I started to worry with 2:45 left, with a one goal lead and the extra man, when Cornell went into the four corners and didn't even attempt to score with the advantage. Once Cornell lost possession I shrugged and thought "tie game." Then Levine's sweet move tied it up. I was worried the rest of the game, mostly because of Queener (and the inability to stop Alpizar on his sweet "baseline" move - it was like watching a mini-Olajuwon on his goals.

All of the praise for Queener, however, shouldn't cloud how equally amazing McMonagle was - and without the showboating in the offensive zone. That probably hurt Albany more than it helped overall even though Cornell couldn't score on the empty net.

Wow.

Wowwowwow.

JHU is rolling over the Hoyas, so I guess we've got them next. In Baltimore. Feels a lot like hockey. Do they have an Olympic sheet?

EDIT: I almost left this thread without saying anything about Pittard and Belisle. Fucking amazing.

ugarte


JHU is rolling over the Hoyas, so I guess we've got them next. In Baltimore. Feels a lot like hockey. Do they have an Olympic sheet?

They're on the other side of the bracket. Duke/UNC is up next.

Lots of credit due Albany. They deserve to be in the semifinals too, more than say Hopkins (even as it's now going +9 on Georgetown now). Amazing quick shots. Also Jordan Levin the middie was great.

But Cornell was greater. McMonagle stoned Albany even though he gave up 11. And the pipe shot of Seibald's that didn't go in, but literally rocked and momentarily lifted the right pipe. Seibald brought life to the faceoff X and he could have scored three times off faceoffs with a bit more luck.

So the big question has got to be: Should Cornell have held the ball when it had a one-minute EMO with 2:45 to go? I said to the people around me, "Tambroni and the team must have worked out the percentages and it says the odds favor holding onto the ball, not going for the goal. But it hasn't worked in the past - we've won but couldn't hold possession. Like last year at Princeton." I think we (Cornell) miscalculate how agressive can be a desperate team. Like Princeton down by 1 last year, like Albany down by 1 this year.

[edit add:]Great that Cornell resolved the penalties problem for the Albany game. Only 3 on Cornell, none resulting in a goal. Let's hope that continues next weekend.

OK, bring on (?) Duke.

I know someone recorded it and can post a torrent of the game, right?

What. A. Game.

SO glad I made the trip, even though I ended up with a thoroughly unexpected sunburn. I'm absolutely exhausted just from watching a lacrosse game. I don't like them that close, but when we pull it out at the end I'll live with it.

I never thought I'd say it, but I'm mildly disappointed to be going to France for the next two weeks.

My favorite play of the game (already mentioned on the game thread):

Max Siebald chasing down an Albany player and diving to take Albany and his stick down, somersaulting to get back up while Cornell picked up the ball and ran it in on offense. AMAZING play. AMAZING game. Totally worth the drive

Oh, and I now totally understand why Siebald is a Tewaarton finalist - he did everything today, excellently and while injured (or so the tape around his ankle made it look). It didn't come across in the webcasts the way it does in person - he's just an incredible player.

Liz '05
Oh, and I now totally understand why Siebald is a Tewaarton finalist - he did everything today, excellently and while injured (or so the tape around his ankle made it look). It didn't come across in the webcasts the way it does in person - he's just an incredible player.

And the glass is nearly half-empty: After next weekend, Max will only have two years left.

Can someone please explain the 400 infractions that were called against Cornell on the faceoffs? Not individually, of course, just generally.

Tip to billhoward for reminding me how we got killed at the x until Siebald took over. Jeez. I thought we might never get the ball.

Beeeej
SO glad I made the trip, even though I ended up with a thoroughly unexpected sunburn. I'm absolutely exhausted just from watching a lacrosse game. I don't like them that close, but when we pull it out at the end I'll live with it.

If you are so exhausted, why does the liveblog say

Liveblog
Those looking for a big crowd in Baltimore next weekend should be rooting for the Danes. Their fans are fantastic.

Obviously you should have been making more noise.

Liz, any chance you are going to make it to Baltimore next weekend?

OK, having survived that game without having a stroke...

That field was extremely wet. During warmups, every time the ball hit the turf, it splashed. I think because of that we had a lot of trouble staying on our feet, especially at the top of the box.

I was a little down after it went 3-0, but I knew we had enough offense to turn it around. Even when it was 6-5 at half-time, I kept thinking about the Duke game this year and knew we could come back. Once we took our first lead, I felt we were going to do it...until we started playing four corners. Then I started getting nervous.

Despite the amazing game he had, it was clear early on that Max could not make a hard cut. There was one point where he was running upfield and the Albany player caught him from behind. That scared me. But by the second half it seemed like he caught a second wind. I also noticed he was running straight at the net and pulling the D with him, so he didn't have to cut.

We have GOT to do something about our inability to win face-offs!!! In OT, everyone around me basically concluded that we'd have to win it in the first OT, because if we had to take another face-off we'd lose it.

Queener was just plain amazing. I wish we'd have made him pay for that play in the 1st quarter where he gave up the ball in our end. And he made some amazing saves. But does anybody know why the subbed him out when Albany went on the EMO?

Jeff Hopkins '82
But does anybody know why the subbed him out when Albany went on the EMO?

He regularly plays attack on their EMO. He was out there with an attack stick.

ugarte

Beeeej
SO glad I made the trip, even though I ended up with a thoroughly unexpected sunburn. I'm absolutely exhausted just from watching a lacrosse game. I don't like them that close, but when we pull it out at the end I'll live with it.

If you are so exhausted, why does the liveblog say

Liveblog
Those looking for a big crowd in Baltimore next weekend should be rooting for the Danes. Their fans are fantastic.

Obviously you should have been making more noise.

The Albany fans were definitely into it. They even had a few guys in full body paint. But they pretty much only made noise when they scored, and their only cheer was "Aaaaalbany...Aaaaalbany" like we do "saaaaafety school." I tried throwing a "sucks!" betwwen the Albanies, and a "Let's go Red" at the end, but nobody would join in on it. And we definitely outnumbered them and made more noise consistently.

I also stuck around for the second game. I would say the fans during that game were "polite." The Hopkins fans did their "...we want more" bit after every goal, but other than the occasional "Go Hop!" from a fan or two and some polite applause when they had a successful clear, it was pretty damn quiet.

And a plug for the Pep Band. When I told a Hopkins fan during the second game that the size of the band was limited by the NCAA to 25 players, he said it was impressive how big a sound our band had.

Jacob '06

Jeff Hopkins '82
But does anybody know why the subbed him out when Albany went on the EMO?

He regularly plays attack on their EMO. He was out there with an attack stick.

Yup, amazing huh?

ugarte
Can someone please explain the 400 infractions that were called against Cornell on the faceoffs? Not individually, of course, just generally.

I can't say I was watching too too specifically this game, but usually its just 'false starts', i.e. flinching/moving before the whistle. Unlike in hockey where that's a do-over, in lax its a procedure violation and the other team gets possession. That's what its been most of the year.

Just saw the replay of the game (I had an obligation earlier today, but my friend called me with frequent updates). Not our cleanest effort, but a lot of that had to do with Albany's play -- very aggressive and excellent with ground balls. Queener was better than I expected, and their D was solid. They are obviously dangerous offensively, with a number of shifty attackmen and excellent feeders. Certainly, no fluke.

Siebald is a true impact player, and I hope the next week allows him to get up to full speed (if he wasn't already).


I hope to see a Big Red Sea in Baltimore!

Yes, the face-off violations were pretty much all "jumping the gun." It wasn't so much flinching as flat-out going for the ball before the ref's signal.

Karl

Liz '05
My favorite play of the game (already mentioned on the game thread):

Max Siebald chasing down an Albany player and diving to take Albany and his stick down, somersaulting to get back up while Cornell picked up the ball and ran it in on offense. AMAZING play. AMAZING game. Totally worth the drive

And my favorite comment from the announcers during the game. Right before that play one of them said, "Siebald looks winded."

We enjoyed the game. Along with a ton of other folks, I wasn't particularly happy with Princeton's rule that you couldn't bring umbrellas into the stadium. There wound up being a pile of "I'll leave it here until after the game" umbrellas near the entrance. I actually found my umbrella on the way out. I was grateful for that.

It didn't rain during our game, though I gather it did for JHU-GU. When it kept coming between games, we took off.

Max is a phenomenal player. It's hard to imagine there's a better middie playing lax today.

There were 4(!) goals scored with fewer than 20 seconds left in a period. Only the 3rd quarter didn't get a buzzer-beater. Talk about tense!

Albany could have run away with the game in the first period if McGonagle hadn't been a stone wall. He was remarkable in those first few minutes and thank goodness for that.

Our top faceoff guy had a really, really bad day. There's just no excuse for jumping the gun so consistently. Max was a beast on faceoffs. After the first two or three, it seemed like an anomaly when Albany picked up the ball with Max at the X.

Queener played well when he was in the net and had the amazing saves late in the game. He really should have learned not to go traipsing upfield though, after the first time he lost the ball. Defensively, CU handled his aggressiveness just fine; they probably should have been more aggressive about trying to score on the empty net, though.

I was a little disappointed that the NCAA requires the first OT to be sudden death. It would have been nice to make it a 5 minute OT and then go on to sudden death for the 2nd and subsequent OT's. Not that it would have mattered today.

It's a shame someone had to lose. I'm just very glad we are the ones moving on to the next round.

Karl

Wow!!
Definitely worth the wait in watching this game. I had a class that went until 1 pm and other errands to do so I didn't watch the game until late this afternoon and avoided ELF for the afternoon.

That was one amazing backcheck/stick check by Siebald, definitely the play of the game.

I also was wondering about our "prevent offense" at the end of the 4th quarter. I could understand holding the ball and playing keep away during the EMO. Make the defenders run around, tire them out and do not risk a turnover. However, once they returned to even strength, I really thought they needed to try for another goal. Like Ugarte, I too was thinking "Albany will tie it" when Cornell didn't get the "insurance goal" (probably not a good way to describe a 2-goal lead in lax).

After last week's OT games, I was thinking, that maybe lax OT should be a full 5 minute OT and whoever is in the lead at the end wins (or do another full 5 min OT, then go to sudden victory). Goals seem to come rather "easily" in lax compared to hockey. However that OT period was very nerve wracking.

A great game and LGR in Baltimore!

Jeff Hopkins '82
The Albany fans were definitely into it. They even had a few guys in full body paint. But they pretty much only made noise when they scored, and their only cheer was "Aaaaalbany...Aaaaalbany" like we do "saaaaafety school." I tried throwing a "sucks!" betwwen the Albanies, and a "Let's go Red" at the end, but nobody would join in on it. And we definitely outnumbered them and made more noise consistently.

I was just kidding, of course. The Schoellkopf Faithful were definitely louder than the Great Danes. Except when we went down 3-0.

Glynn's GW goal made Sportscenter Top Ten plays (#8) tonight.

schoaff

Liz '05
My favorite play of the game (already mentioned on the game thread):

Max Siebald chasing down an Albany player and diving to take Albany and his stick down, somersaulting to get back up while Cornell picked up the ball and ran it in on offense. AMAZING play. AMAZING game. Totally worth the drive

And my favorite comment from the announcers during the game. Right before that play one of them said, "Siebald looks winded."

My favorite was:

"These two New York State rivals, facing each other head to head for the first time..."

Huh?

Rita
After last week's OT games, I was thinking, that maybe lax OT should be a full 5 minute OT and whoever is in the lead at the end wins (or do another full 5 min OT, then go to sudden victory). Goals seem to come rather "easily" in lax compared to hockey. However that OT period was very nerve wracking.

Couldn't agree more. Used to be that way. Two four-minute overtime periods, with a short break and change of direction in between. Cornell won the 1976 championship over Maryland in OT, scoring four goals after Maryland scored the first. Much fairer way to determine a winner.

Jacob '06
Liz, any chance you are going to make it to Baltimore next weekend?

None. SERE school has me in Maine for two weeks, including that weekend.

Rita
After last week's OT games, I was thinking, that maybe lax OT should be a full 5 minute OT and whoever is in the lead at the end wins (or do another full 5 min OT, then go to sudden victory). Goals seem to come rather "easily" in lax compared to hockey. However that OT period was very nerve wracking.

I could have sworn that's the way it used to be. My memory may be playing tricks on me but I seem to remember a first round game against Adelphi in '87 where we were down something like 10-5 at half time and then won it 16-14 in overtime. Anyone else remember that game?

I do remember that the Cornell goalie's parents were sitting next to me during that game (Schimoler or something?) and told lots of stories about him and there was a girl behind us with an incredibly grating Long Island Accent who seemed to randomly shout "LET'S GO ADELPHI!" every four or five minutes.

schoaff

Rita
After last week's OT games, I was thinking, that maybe lax OT should be a full 5 minute OT and whoever is in the lead at the end wins (or do another full 5 min OT, then go to sudden victory). Goals seem to come rather "easily" in lax compared to hockey. However that OT period was very nerve wracking.

I could have sworn that's the way it used to be.

It was. See my posting above.

Just noticed another game-changing defensive play by Seibald.

After Levine scored 18 seconds into the second half to give Albany a two-goal lead and a real momentum boost, Seibald came out to take the face-off...and lost it. The Albany wingman picked up the ball and headed back into his defensive zone. Seibald chased him like a madman, swung his stick around the Albany's player's body, knocking the ball out of his stick and out-of-bounds, giving the ball to Cornell. Max scored seconds later, triggering the three-goals-in-19-seconds run that changed the tone of the game from us playing catch-up to them playing catch-up.

Amazing effort from opening face-off to Glynn's goal.

Al DeFlorio

Rita
After last week's OT games, I was thinking, that maybe lax OT should be a full 5 minute OT and whoever is in the lead at the end wins (or do another full 5 min OT, then go to sudden victory). Goals seem to come rather "easily" in lax compared to hockey. However that OT period was very nerve wracking.

Couldn't agree more. Used to be that way. Two four-minute overtime periods, with a short break and change of direction in between. Cornell won the 1976 championship over Maryland in OT, scoring four goals after Maryland scored the first. Much fairer way to determine a winner.

In a modest scoring sport, its always a tough call whether to go sudden death in a sport in OT. Low scoring like hockey and soccer are no-brainers. High scoring like basketball as well. But something in the middle like football and lacrosse are difficult. I see the merits of both. Sudden death, err, excuse me, "sudden victory", is exciting and tense and means every single play can be make or break.

Playing a full 'period' on the other hand takes a bit of the randomness seeming out of it, and makes it feel less like whoever gets the first possession wins (this seems even more unfair in football where the first possession is based on a coin flip). But the numbers in football indicate that first possession does not matter that much (I think its less than 55% win, or something like that). Watching lax these past couple weeks, despite what you'd imagine, it seems the same. Cornell/Albany had a several possessions going back and forth. If I recall correctly, and I may not, I don't think Georgetown or Hopkins won on their first possession (although GTown may have, it was only 30 seconds in - but I'm pretty sure Notre Dame had a possession before JHU won).

While it has the potential to be unfair, all in all, I don't think it really is. And with the excitement it adds to the game, I don't think its going away anytime soon.

Fred, I think the issue for me is the frequency of turnovers.

In a sport like hockey, where possession changes every 10 seconds, sudden death is clearly a good way to go: a team is unlikely to get more than one scoring chance on their first possession, and even that's very unlikely.

OTOH, games like football and lacrosse don't have such frequent turnovers. In either sport, the team with possession has a very good possibility of scoring on that possession. In sports like these, a defined time or even a defined number of possessions seem like the fairer way to go in OT.

Kyle

krose
Fred, I think the issue for me is the frequency of turnovers.

In a sport like hockey, where possession changes every 10 seconds, sudden death is clearly a good way to go: a team is unlikely to get more than one scoring chance on their first possession, and even that's very unlikely.

The combination of sudden victory and infrequency of turnovers often causes a real distortion of how the game is played in overtime. Take, for example, the Bill Tierney approach: If you win the face-off, you hold the ball for three-and-a-half minutes until less than 30 seconds remains on the clock before attempting a shot, figuring you're likely to get the ball back if you miss the net and in any case the other team won't have enough time to score. Then, if you don't score, you do it all over again after the face-off starting the next overtime period. Deadly for the audience--and crappy lacrosse, in my opinion.

Let the teams play the game as it was meant to be played. With two three-or-four-minute overtime periods, the incentive to hold the ball until the end is all but taken away.

Al DeFlorio

Rita
After last week's OT games, I was thinking, that maybe lax OT should be a full 5 minute OT and whoever is in the lead at the end wins (or do another full 5 min OT, then go to sudden victory). Goals seem to come rather "easily" in lax compared to hockey. However that OT period was very nerve wracking.

Couldn't agree more. Used to be that way. Two four-minute overtime periods, with a short break and change of direction in between. Cornell won the 1976 championship over Maryland in OT, scoring four goals after Maryland scored the first. Much fairer way to determine a winner.

A mini-overtime, not sudden death, should be the rule again in lacrosse. Albany probably feels that way right now. We might have. Whoever wins that first OT faceoff has an advantage. Wonder if there are easily accessible stats as to how often in the NCAAs the OT faceoff winner is also the winner, even when not scoring on first possession.

schoaff
I do remember that the Cornell goalie's parents were sitting next to me during that game (Schimoler or something?) and told lots of stories about him and there was a girl behind us with an incredibly grating Long Island Accent who seemed to randomly shout "LET'S GO ADELPHI!" every four or five minutes.

Redundant.

DeltaOne81

ugarte
Can someone please explain the 400 infractions that were called against Cornell on the faceoffs? Not individually, of course, just generally.

I can't say I was watching too too specifically this game, but usually its just 'false starts', i.e. flinching/moving before the whistle. Unlike in hockey where that's a do-over, in lax its a procedure violation and the other team gets possession. That's what its been most of the year.

Do I understand correctly that these procedure violations are inclulded in the faceoff statistics and that this is a significant factor in keeping the Cornell percentage down?

David Harding

DeltaOne81

ugarte
Can someone please explain the 400 infractions that were called against Cornell on the faceoffs? Not individually, of course, just generally.

I can't say I was watching too too specifically this game, but usually its just 'false starts', i.e. flinching/moving before the whistle. Unlike in hockey where that's a do-over, in lax its a procedure violation and the other team gets possession. That's what its been most of the year.

Do I understand correctly that these procedure violations are inclulded in the faceoff statistics and that this is a significant factor in keeping the Cornell percentage down?

I would assume yes - because I think that is the right way to go. If you are losing the faceoffs because you can't take them legally, you are losing the faceoffs.

DeltaOne81
In a modest scoring sport, its always a tough call whether to go sudden death in a sport in OT. Low scoring like hockey and soccer are no-brainers.

Sudden death is fairly new to soccer (futbol, in any event) and IIRC, there is still a non-sudden death two-period OT before the golden goal period. Which is then followed by the execrable shootout.

Happy

ugarte

DeltaOne81
In a modest scoring sport, its always a tough call whether to go sudden death in a sport in OT. Low scoring like hockey and soccer are no-brainers.

Sudden death is fairly new to soccer (futbol, in any event) and IIRC, there is still a non-sudden death two-period OT before the golden goal period. Which is then followed by the execrable shootout.

I think FIFA got rid of the "golden goal" and went back to playing a full (30 minute) OT followed by a shootout.

min
Glynn's GW goal made Sportscenter Top Ten plays (#8) tonight.

And Glynn's OT winner was Chris Berman's #4 top play of the week on Sunday's Sportscenter.

JasonN95

min
Glynn's GW goal made Sportscenter Top Ten plays (#8) tonight.

And Glynn's OT winner was Chris Berman's #4 top play of the week on Sunday's Sportscenter.

Annoying though he may be, Berman is always good at giving the Ivies some TV love.

Highlights from ESPNU. Haven't seen anything on YouTube.

[broadband.espn.go.com]

ebilmes
Highlights from ESPNU. Haven't seen anything on YouTube.

[broadband.espn.go.com]

Yeah...too bad all the highlights are the player isolated shots. The camera in this clip misses Glynn's goal because it panned right past him. Would love to see the broadcast shot from up top. Or better yet, a clip of the broadcast from about 10 seconds before Seibald's trail check until the end would be better.

Will's suggestion *cough* torrent *cough* would be marvelous.

Good photo gallery at Inside Lacrosse: [www.insidelacrosse.com]

Al DeFlorio
Max scored seconds later, triggering the three-goals-in-19-seconds run that changed the tone of the game from us playing catch-up to them playing catch-up.

Here's a mention of that game changing run from this week's game notes...

QUICK HITTERS -- When Max Seibald scored at the 14:13 mark of the third quarter to cut a two-goal deficit in half, it also triggered a 4-0 Big Red run and three of the fastest successive goals in NCAA history. Just 10 seconds after Seibald scored, the sophomore found Eric Pittard to tie the game at 7-7. It also is tied for 14th in NCAA history in fastest consecutive goals by members of the same team and the second-quickest in an NCAA game. Not to be outdone, just nine seconds later David Mitchell gave Cornell an 8-7 lead, the second-quickest time between goals in an NCAA game and the 13th fastest time between goals in NCAA history. When all was said an done, the Big Red scored three times in 19 seconds, an NCAA record for quickest time between three goals in regular season or tournament history.

schoaff
When all was said an done, the Big Red scored three times in 19 seconds, an NCAA record for quickest time between three goals in regular season or tournament history.

Wow. I was in awe as it was happening, but since the announcers didn't say anything I figured that it couldn't possibly be a record. Wow.

ugarte

schoaff
When all was said an done, the Big Red scored three times in 19 seconds, an NCAA record for quickest time between three goals in regular season or tournament history.

Wow. I was in awe as it was happening, but since the announcers didn't say anything I figured that it couldn't possibly be a record. Wow.

Duke lacrosse team has never scored three times in under half a minute?

Wow on many fronts.

1. The fact that it took five days for any mention (at least here) that these were the three quickest goals in regular season or tournament games.

2. The fact that that is the quickest time

3. Cornell sets the 2nd quickest time of ten seconds then goes immediately and replaces it with 9 seconds in NCAA play.

4. That ten seconds is tied for 14th quickest goals all-time and 9 seconds is 13th?? Are we talking tenths of seconds here?

Tom Pasniewski 98
Wow on many fronts.

1. The fact that it took five days for any mention (at least here) that these were the three quickest goals in regular season or tournament games.

2. The fact that that is the quickest time

3. Cornell sets the 2nd quickest time of ten seconds then goes immediately and replaces it with 9 seconds in NCAA play.

4. That ten seconds is tied for 14th quickest goals all-time and 9 seconds is 13th?? Are we talking tenths of seconds here?

Maybe there should be old and new records, the old records for games played before there were tenths of seconds on scoreboards. Could it be when you think in fractions of seconds, somehow we perceive time differently and respond in different ways? Like say run up field more quickly?

... or was this conversation already played out in the candle-light scene ("I won't go schizo, will I?" in Jennings'/Donald Sutherland's bathroom in Animal House?

Yep, we're all just marking time till we head for Baltimore.