CU to charge students for athletic events

I'm sure most of you have seen, but due to the utter stupidity of the SA (Tim Lim), Cornell has been forced to announce that it will charge students for other sports, most notably football, basketball, and lacrosse which should send attendence plummetting. Cornell will be selling a ALL SPORTS PASS that would allow students into every sporting event (except of course hockey). Obviously, this is a bit of a nuisance and it will hurt Cornell Athletics because many cash-strapped will obviously opt not to buy tickets or the pass.

Cornell, however, should make lemonade this SA lemon. Cornell has always said it wanted the most diehard fans to get hockey tickets and I think we all agree that's the best policy. Therefore, what Cornell should do is sell season hockey tickets only to students who have also purchased the all sports pass. This would have 2 effects. First, it would make anyone interested in hockey tickets buy the pass and would boost attendance at CU sporting events. (Hey, I paid for this thing, I might as well go check out the football game today...) Second, only real Cornell sports fans would get hockey tickets. Imagine how much doing this would cut down on facetimers who don't care about sports at all. This would cut down on the number of students even eligible for the hockey line and help make the numbers more managable.

I think this would be a great way for Cornell to take Tim Lim's stupidity turn it into a way to have students support all Big Red teams. I am going to write Gene an e-mail tomorrow expressing, more elequently, of course, what I have outlined here. Any comments would be appreciated.

I think for a lot of students, the cost of season tickets isn't a bar to their getting in line and buying them. Demand outstrips supply so much that the price is pretty much inelastic. Tying these two things together would just be a hockey ticket surcharge. Instead of $100 for the season, not it's $175. I don't think it would do much to draw more than the usual crowd of dozens to other sports. The only effect would be cutting out students who can't afford the surcharge from the pool of demand, a pool that likely includes at least some hard core hockey fans and not just facetimers.

Further, one should be able to be a cornell hockey fan and not care about other teams. It doesn't cast their hockey fandom in doubt if they couldn't care less about basketball.

Mandatory written exam on Cornell hockey history. Top 4000 scores get tickets.

Note: although Cornell is barred from offering Athletic Fan Scholarships, there will be needs-based scholarships offered concentrating on fans with "special gifts." Leather lungs. Cowbell. Tank top talent...

Chris '03
Further, one should be able to be a cornell hockey fan and not care about other teams. It doesn't cast their hockey fandom in doubt if they couldn't care less about basketball.

I have to disagree - the tickets should go to the biggest CORNELL fans. In fact, I find it incredibly annoying that some people only turn out for hockey. Don't get me wrong, i've been to every single ice hockey game since i've been on campus, but I also make it to all the football and lacrosse games as well as maybe 5 basketball games a season. However, fans should turn out to watch other sports as well.

Hockey is just one sport, obviously the most noteworthy (with some recent competition from lacrosse). Hockey tickets should go to the most diehard Cornell sports fans. Those who support all of Big Red athletics deserve a chance to watch their favorite Cornell sport hockey, as opposed to those who, excuse me for saying so, are not real Cornell fans, but only Cornell Hockey fans. This is no different from people here who complain that students only show up to the Harvard game or the Dartmouth game and don't care about other games don't deserve season tickets. I assert the same is true for people who don't care enough about the rest of cornell sports to get a sports pass - they do not deserve the chance to buy hockey tickets because they are not real Cornell fans.

Reminds me of a cheer I heard at the Yale/Brown weekend at Lynah this winter:

Hey Goalie, your mom called, she said: YOU SUCK
Hey Goalie, your boyfriend called, he said: YOU SUCK
Hey Goalie, Tim Lim called, he said: YOU SUCK

I think your analogy to facetimers who only show up to the Harvard game falls short. Those who are only interested in attending fish and fowl are clearly not hockey fans - they're just there for the event. On the other hand, one can be a huge Cornell hockey fan and not care about, for instance, basketball. There's a big difference in degree between the two cases.

I'm sure there are plenty of big Cornell hockey fans who don't care much about the other sports on campus. I'd rather have the diehard hockey fan in the rink than some more casual fan who's also a casual fan of Cornell basketball and football. The diehards are more likely to pack the rink.

I respect your general pro-Cornell sports attitude, but I think you're trying to take it too far with this suggestion.

KeithK
I'm sure there are plenty of big Cornell hockey fans who don't care much about the other sports on campus. I'd rather have the diehard hockey fan in the rink than some more casual fan who's also a casual fan of Cornell basketball and football. The diehards are more likely to pack the rink.

Agreed.

I went to about 4 football games, and a grand total of one each lacrosse game, soccer game, and track meet during my time on the hill.

While I'm sure this behavior isn't universal, it is probably the norm even for the die-hard hockey fans.

Kyle

OK, I give up. Who's Tim Lim and how did the SA bring this about?

I agree with what I think is the general consensus that while it would be nice to have more people attend the other sporting events, this is probably not the way to do it. Reasons have been outlined above.

I'd consider myself a pretty die-hard hockey fan, a casual fan of football, wrestling, and lacrosse through this board, and a casual fan of crew, polo, gymnastics, and a variety of club teams because of friends on the team. My casual fandom usually didn't extend to attendance, though I could talk somewhat knowledgably about the team. I might've gotten the pass in order to get the hockey tickets, but I almost certainly wouldn't have used it more often than the (maybe) two football games, a gymnastics meet, and handful of water polo games (which are free anyway) I already made it to. I'd say this idea is unfair to those who can't afford the extra charge, has the potential to change the composition of the Lynah Faithful, and is unlikely to significantly change the attendance in other sports.

A possible alternative is this: Between periods, give away a free (pair of?) ticket(s?) to an upcoming game that doesn't conflict with hockey. Having the ticket in hand is likely to get the student there, which might bring along a few friends and develop an interest in a new sport.

jmh30
OK, I give up. Who's Tim Lim and how did the SA bring this about?

I don't know the details. But I do know that the only reason that Cornell sports like football and basketball were free to students for a while was that the SA allocated a portion of the activity fee to the Athletic Dept. This started in the early to mid nineties. I assume Mr. Lim successfully lobbied the SA to cancel this allocation and as a result the AD went back to charging for sporting events.

Back in the day students had to buy individual tickets for football or basketball. I don't know if attendance improved when the games became free to students, but I suspect revenue improved or at least stabilized (or else why would the AD do it?)

KeithK
Back in the day students had to buy individual tickets for football or basketball.

Although IIRC they were about $5 a piece and you could get a season ticket for approximately 5 home football games for about $12.

CUontheslopes
This is no different from people here who complain that students only show up to the Harvard game or the Dartmouth game and don't care about other games don't deserve season tickets.

There are people who only show up for the Dartmouth game?

Athletics didn't get SA funding this year because they didn't realize that the deadline had changed. Somehow other groups managed to get it done, and I'm sure the blame doesn't fall only on the SA. Takes two to tango. And besides, when it was clear that the SA funding had fallen through for whatever reason, the University as a whole should have picked up the tab.

Anyway I've got to agree that being a hockey fan doesn't mean you have to be a basketball fan. I love watching hockey. By senior year (I was a late bloomer in terms of catching the bug), I was going to not just the men's games but also almost all of the women's -- I think the first time I missed a women's game, it was cause I went down to Pton for the men's. And yet I didn't go to a single basketball game, or any other sport for that matter. Does that make me a bad Cornellian? Maybe, whatever. But I was still a pretty decent Cornell Hockey fan, and I don't see why I should have been forced to pay for a season pass to the other sports.

Maybe they could discount the price of the hockey tickets to the season pass holders.

KeithK
Back in the day students had to buy individual tickets for football or basketball. I don't know if attendance improved when the games became free to students, but I suspect revenue improved or at least stabilized (or else why would the AD do it?)

I don't know how attendance is at sports like football and basketball now, but as I recall, when tickets became free, attendance to both plummeted.

I can't say I took much advantage of athletic events other than hockey, having gone to maybe parts of 5 football games and half an hour of an indoor track meet (because a friend asked some people to cheer for her) in my 4 years.

However, whatever Athletics fault may have been in this, it strikes me as more foolishness from the SA. The SA and all other attempts at student politics and government at CU are a waste and run by the people who should least be in charge, the kinds of students most of us unfortunately knew and generally disdained who would show up at parties or bars on Thursday night just to be seen and shake a couple hands before heading off to the next place with more constituents. I never saw one who knew how to down a beer or cheer for Bâby or go after a hot girl without thinking first about her vote. Damn politicians all and damn poor Cornellians, I must say.

Having stupidly been on the SA, I can tell you that you're 100% correct.

In my day you bought a coupon book. The right coupon got you into the game of the day, be it football, hockey, basketball, or whatever. For football, about a week before the game you could exchange your coupon for a reserved seat ticket. We would collect a bunch and some cash and get a block. For hockey, after your three days in line, you forked over the appropriate collection of coupons, some extra cash, and you had your season tickets. Freshman year I just showed up at the game with my coupon book and got standing room every time. I can't rmember how much the coupon book cost, but it was much less for students than for faculty or townspeople.

Ben Rocky 04
Having stupidly been on the SA, I can tell you that you're 100% correct.

Dont blame me, I voted for Kodos.

CUontheslopes...

Your point is idiotic. The degree to which a student follows Cornell lacrosse, basketball, or football has ABSOLUTELY ZERO bearing on how big a Cornell hockey fan he or she is. I know many die-hard Cornell HOCKEY fans that neither claim nor desire to be "die-hard Cornell" sports fans. If you want to be, that is your perogative. Furthermore, many of the real Lynah Faithful are professional hockey enthusiasts (as can be evidenced by the "Alumni in the Pros" threads). This respect for the game of hockey in turn denotes respect for the Cornell ice hockey program.

Their support of other sports has no bearing on how big a hockey fan they are, but it means they are the biggest supporters of CU Athletics and the biggest supporters of the agency - the Athletic Dept. - that gives out the tickets and should be rewarded for their loyalty and spirit. I believe the pep band has some sort of points system (correct me if I'm wrong) requiring people to attend other events in order to gain enough points to garner hockey tickets. This would be no different. Prove you're a real Cornell fan. I'd have no problem with them scanning your ID at every cornell sporting event you attending and then giving out a portion of the tickets based on the number of athletic events a student has attended. At least then you'd know you had a fan who was committed to Cornell, more than likely an upperclassman, and a sports fan. You certainly could do worse than packing the rink with people who bleed Carnellian and White.

Interesting point. For some months now I have had a similar idea in mind. The Athletics Department obviously wants the safest, fairest, and most academically feasible method for handing out tickets. So I say:

1. Continue the method of waiting at night for a week for an announcement by radio/email.
2. Upon hearing the announcement, a server with a ~10 question CUhockey quiz opens up (with pre-registration, kerberos, something...), and those who score best and complete it in the shortest amount of time (some formula for this or just pick one?) get the highest "line number."
3. At this point, they can continue their idea of waiting overnight or whatever, it's irrelevant.

The idea here is that safety concerns are taken into account, and there is no more stampede or running across roads. Also, the best hockey fans will do better on the quiz and get the most desirable tickets. Finally, there is no line during the day so nobody will miss class. Basically, the only change from last year would be a quiz done at home on the computer when the announcement comes, instead of fighting for your life with 2000 other students.

Any thoughts?

All I know is that Harvard doesn't charge the students...

go Crimson.

My thought (which has been inspired by the various discussions on this board about this issue):

Students get a coupon book each with a unique number that appears on each coupon and is registered in that person’s name. Athletics will collect coupons as follows (a) two for arriving at a men’s home game at least 20 min in advance of game time *even if you don’t have a ticket to get in* (obviously you can’t see the game if you don’t have a ticket, but it allows a freshman/non-ticket holder to show their enthusiasm/sacrifice), (b) since Athletics seems to want to promote both the men’s and women’s teams, one for attending a women’s hockey game (have to arriving before game time) and a second one after the third period as you file out for a total of two if you stay for the whole game, (c) three for attending a road men’s game, (d) four for attending a road women’s game. (The actual weighting may need some tweaking but you get the idea --some efforts are rewarded more.) Line numbers are then distributed next year in order from who has the most coupons collected by Athletics to the least until line numbers run out. A simple drawing is used for braking ties at each coupon tally level before moving to the next lower one.

This allows the tickets to go to the most devoted without creating the policing headaches/risk of injury that the line has devolved into. No line cutting. No mobs. No facetimers (unless they can convince someone who put in the effort and then bought tickets to sell them; but that can’t be avoided unless Athletics wants to try to make season ticket’s non-transferable, which seems like a very difficult thing to do without a lot of complication).

The kicker, and what may kill this, is that it requires Athletics to have a coupon collector(s) at each home and away game, men’s and women’s, and some sort of tabulation method. I have no idea how expensive barcode readers are, but if each coupon had a barcode identifying the book’s unique identifying number, then it might be feasible to pull this off without a big cost or a lot of man power--plus they’d be saving the time and money spent on the line process.

clarkson doesn't charge their students either.

I know you realize that you haven't completely thought this through...but here are my thoughts on your idea:

1) It would be relatively easy to scam. Pick a non-descript friend that's going to an away game, and have them bring both his/her and your coupon book up to the coupon collector. As long as he/she doesn't hand the collector two books at once, and the collector doesn't recognize him/her, you've just scammed the system.

2) Think of the number of coupons you'd have to print and bind for the die-hard fans...and how many coupons would never get used by the facetimers making minimal effort. edit: Unless they're scanned...in which case, why have a coupon book to start with?

I think this would be a little easier: use an ID scanner at home games (hockey and otherwise), and then track the number of away game tickets bought through the ticket office, with the caveat that if you receive a ticket from an away ticket office, you can still get credit for it by bringing it in to Gene.

You already have a discrete identification number on the ID, the photo makes it much less likely that people will try to scam and much easier to get caught, and the basics of your idea are kept.

Dpperk29
clarkson doesn't charge their students either.

I'm sure there's a hefty list from the ECAC of schools who either don't charge their students for athletic tickets, or incorporate the cost into an activity fee imposed on all students. The schools in the league are generally small and academically oriented. Just doing a small sampling of online research...I'm willing to bet that only Cornell and RPI charge students for season tickets in the ECACHL. Maybe someone with more time could figure it out for all the league members. Even at UVM, students are are allowed one free ticket per ID the week of the game.

That said, it's a different story for the playoffs. Either the ECACHL or the NCAA has a rule that requires the schools to charge admission to students for post-season games. As a result, the student sections for Clarkson, Harvard, et. al. are usually empty for the hosted playoff games, save for the rabid fans and bands. While they usually get criticized for this in student papers and online message boards, it's somewhat explainable that when there isn't a usual admission fee, the sudden demand for $$ will keep the casual student-fan away.

You seem to repeatedly miss the point- I'd rather Lynah packed with people who care about Cornell HOCKEY...
I (and many others) have no interest in attending many other Cornell athletic events and couldn't care less about the athletics dept. administration. They're inept as far as ticket distribution is concerned. A Cornell Hockey fan should have access to tickets based on devotion to the hockey team and the great sport of hockey. Whether or not I like lacrosse (which I don't) or football (which I do when it's well played- see Big Ten, Pac-10, etc, not Ivy league) is irrelevant. If you're a real Cornell hockey fan, that's all that matters.

An additonal note- The pep band is a completely separate issue as they ARE representative of all Cornell athletics. Fans are not.

Larry Mullin Jr
All I know is that Harvard doesn't charge the students...

and Harvard hockey SUCKS!

add to the list of free student tix: SLU

Harvard is a fine institution.

Clarkson and Cornell Suck dick

Larry Mullin Jr
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2006 07:42AM by jtwcornell91.

I'm curious as to what the original version of this message was, because it doesn't appear very polite even after your edit.

Kyle

Whoa, when did JTW become a moderator?

I know!?! Is that freaking scary or what?

Liz '05
Whoa, when did JTW become a moderator?

When Age didn't wanna bother cleaning up all the spam posts

Speaking of, JTW, you have a thread waiting for ya on that one over on Other Sports.

Larry Mullin Jr
Clarkson and Cornell Suck dick

Not that there's anything wrong with that.........

You're 1 for 2.

Larry Mullin Jr
Harvard is a fine institution.

TROLL!!

krose

Larry Mullin Jr
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2006 07:42AM by jtwcornell91.

I'm curious as to what the original version of this message was, because it doesn't appear very polite even after your edit.

Oops, I didn't realize the edit would have my fingerprints. The guy was being an asshole and advertizing at the same time. I figured the more conservative thing to do was to cut out the ad but let him be an asshole, which is probably not against forum rules.