LeNeveu-Eliot comparison

David LeNeveu 02-03: 32GP, 28-3-1, 39 GA, 94 SV%, 1.20 GAA
Brian Elliot 05-06: 35GP, 27-5-3, 55 GA, 93.8 SV%, 1.55 GAA

How is it that these guys did not win the hobey?

Big Red
David LeNeveu 02-03: 32GP, 28-3-1, 39 GA, 94 SV%, 1.20 GAA
Brian Elliot 05-06: 35GP, 27-5-3, 55 GA, 93.8 SV%, 1.55 GAA

How is it that these guys did not win the hobey?

I've always figured Dave didn't win it because:
1) Miller had just won it two years earlier, and the committee didn't want to honor goalies too often, and
2) Cornell's "system" is what supposedly makes our goalies' numbers great, not their actual talent or performance.

I figure Elliot didn't win it because if Dave's numbers weren't good enough, certainly his weren't. Plus, remember the numbers you're citing for him include the tournament where he had 270+ minutes of shutout hockey, and the voting supposedly takes place before the regionals.

But YMMV. If there were one person acting with one mind in making these choices, you might be able to come up with a "reason" - but just as with the weekly polls, as long as they're determined by many people voting for their own reasons, there's no way to come up with (and no point in trying to come up with) a universal rationale.

Beeeej

The EZAC label did not help Lenny either

Lenny may have killed the Hobey for goaltenders forever. For various reasons, not all of them stupid, he didn't win. However, no successor candidate is going to have numbers extraordinarily better than his, especially since the game is opening up and we may be going back to the days of a sub-3.00 GAA being worthy of AA status.

I suggest they promote the Dryden Award to a Cy Young-like NCAA-wide award, and simply stop considering goaltenders for Hobey. It's apples and oranges anyway.

Big Red
David LeNeveu 02-03: 32GP, 28-3-1, 39 GA, 94 SV%, 1.20 GAA
Brian Elliot 05-06: 35GP, 27-5-3, 55 GA, 93.8 SV%, 1.55 GAA

How is it that these guys did not win the hobey?

and then there's this non-winner:
David McKee 04-05: 35GP, 27-5-3, 44 GA, 94.7 SV%, 1.24 GAA

Trotsky
I suggest they promote the Dryden Award to a Cy Young-like NCAA-wide award, and simply stop considering goaltenders for Hobey. It's apples and oranges anyway.

Amen.

Beeeej

Sejna had 82 points (including 36 goals) the year that Lenny got jobbed. He was a dominant WCHA player that year and CC had a tough schedule. I think if Lenny posted those numbers this year, he might have walked away with the award.

Last year, I don't think that anyone in their right mind was cheering against Marty Sertich. 64 points and <30 goals doesn't win the award many years, but he did lead the country in scoring (both total points and points per game). I wonder how close the voting was because we know that McKee had a great year. Marty is a tough kid and I have no problem with him winning.

This year, with three realistic potential Hobey winners from the WCHA (Carle, Potulny, Elliot), I wonder if there were a lot of vote splitting going on. Again, I bet it was close. Elliot had an injury and a brief slump. I think the right guy won - Carle's point total was very impressive for a d-man in the WCHA. I can't believe how much ice time he's getting right away for the Sharks, they're in a very tight race to make the playoffs. He's taken Dougie's job so he's the real deal in my book.

Look at the number of saves that LeNeveu, McKee, and Elliot had, none of them were exactly shelled. I think if they saw the number of shots Dadswell did, there numbers would have been drastically lower.

Having gone through this 10 years ago with another great goaltender with the same surname...

E-L-L-I-O-T-T

I think Brian has earned enough respect for me to make sure we get the correct spelling at least once in this thread.

Although, I am tickled that someone on Hockey-L gave a spot on their 2006 All-Tournament team to Jason Elliott.

I'm all in favor of a national goaltender award. To draw a comparison with the Heisman, aren't there national awards for specific positions in college football?

To answer my own question: oh my, yes. [en.wikipedia.org]

You guys could all start up a foundation and start the Ken Dryden National Goaltender Trophy. I'm pretty sure the Hobey Baker is run by a foundation completely independent of the NCAA.

Jacob '06
You guys could all start up a foundation and start the Ken Dryden National Goaltender Trophy. I'm pretty sure the Hobey Baker is run by a foundation completely independent of the NCAA.

The statue which could be used already exists:

[www.flickr.com]

Jacob '06
You guys could all start up a foundation and start the Ken Dryden National Goaltender Trophy. I'm pretty sure the Hobey Baker is run by a foundation completely independent of the NCAA.

Hey, I'm in.

Beeeej

WillCMJr
Look at the number of saves that LeNeveu, McKee, and Elliot had, none of them were exactly shelled. I think if they saw the number of shots Dadswell did, there numbers would have been drastically lower.

You can compare these numbers with the Sh60 (Shots per 60 Mins) stat: [www.tbrw.info]

Career numbers, through 2005

21.0 LeNeveu
23.1 McKee
26.2 Dryden
26.6 Underhill
27.5 Burt
29.0 D'Alessio
32.0 Elliott (ours)
34.3 Eliot
34.8 Dadswell
35.7 Hayward
44.6 Detwiler

What a neat website, thanks! Should be noted that '34.3 Eliot' was "ours" also! The original 'Eliot, Eliot, Eliot...'

RichH

Jacob '06
You guys could all start up a foundation and start the Ken Dryden National Goaltender Trophy. I'm pretty sure the Hobey Baker is run by a foundation completely independent of the NCAA.

The statue which could be used already exists:

[www.flickr.com]

The one thing this doesn't tell you is that it's a statue of Dryden in the middle of a game! It's a classic Dryden pose on those Cornell and Canadian teams that dominated the opposition!

that's "Canadiens" team. or Les Habiatants.

RichS
that's "Canadiens" team. or Les Habiatants.

"Les Habitants," réellement.

Beeeej

Unfortunately, NCAA regulations require that all ice hockey awards be named after former Princeton players.

Certainment! My fingers did it again.

Voting for the Hobey is done after the Regionals ... I selected Potulny and Carle over Elliott because those two were simply, clearly, observably dominant college hockey players. While, obviously, a goaltender who is merely great has a greater impact on a hockey game, theoretically, than one dominant skater ... within their position, Carle and Potulny were dominant players. Elliott, through design, perhaps, does not steal games - though, of course, there's something to be said for his steadiness.

I wrote about this here, if anyone cares:
[www.collegehockeynews.com]
[www.collegehockeynews.com]

adamw
Voting for the Hobey is done after the Regionals ... I selected Potulny and Carle over Elliott because those two were simply, clearly, observably dominant college hockey players. While, obviously, a goaltender who is merely great has a greater impact on a hockey game, theoretically, than one dominant skater ... within their position, Carle and Potulny were dominant players. Elliott, through design, perhaps, does not steal games - though, of course, there's something to be said for his steadiness.

All the more reason to have a separate goalie award. It's too hard to compare the skaters and the goalies.

Jim Hyla

adamw
Voting for the Hobey is done after the Regionals ... I selected Potulny and Carle over Elliott because those two were simply, clearly, observably dominant college hockey players. While, obviously, a goaltender who is merely great has a greater impact on a hockey game, theoretically, than one dominant skater ... within their position, Carle and Potulny were dominant players. Elliott, through design, perhaps, does not steal games - though, of course, there's something to be said for his steadiness.

All the more reason to have a separate goalie award. It's too hard to compare the skaters and the goalies.

In the pros, you have to make a choice where to spend your money, and you don't get a separate pot marked "goaltender." In college, sure, it's hard to determine if a great goalie is more valuable than a great forward, or defender for that matter ... but the beauty of awards such as the Hobey is it keeps fans arguing over the possibilities long after the rinks have been defrosted for the summer months.

Swampy
The one thing this doesn't tell you is that it's a statue of Dryden in the middle of a game! It's a classic Dryden pose on those Cornell and Canadian teams that dominated the opposition!

I love it! It's dead-on. Even leaning on the crossbar. I wondered how much of this was calculated theater on Dryden's part. Motionless and looking bored. Must have driven other teams crazy.

ninian '72

Swampy
The one thing this doesn't tell you is that it's a statue of Dryden in the middle of a game! It's a classic Dryden pose on those Cornell and Canadian teams that dominated the opposition!

I love it! It's dead-on. Even leaning on the crossbar. I wondered how much of this was calculated theater on Dryden's part. Motionless and looking bored. Must have driven other teams crazy.

Never been to the HHOF, huh?

I'm pretty sure somewhere in The Game Dryden says that it was at least part, if not mostly, theater. I'll pick up my copy tonight and see if I can find it

someone oughta teach that one to leggio...


I know it was low... but I couldn't resist...

sorry rich