Dividing loyalties?

This isn't a problem for me because I never watched hockey before coming to Cornell (I grew up in the deep, deep south, where hockey only gained some level of popularity after I moved up here). But, I was wondering how people deal with situations that could divide loyalty. Before people freak out and shout "Cornell always and forever", here's the type of scenario I'm thinking about.

You come to Cornell, undergrad, 4 years. Then, you go off to grad school...say WI (or some other team that is root-for-able), 4 years (or 8, whatever). First, the teams rarely meet, so it seems simple, root for both. Then, when they do meet, root for Cornell because people are typically more closely bound to life at an undergrad school than at a grad school.

Okay, so you finish grad school and, avoiding the real world, stay in academia as a professor. You get a position at, say, CC. Again, the schools rarely meet. But, 15 years down, who do you root for in a head-to-head? After all, you were at Cornell 4 years, almost 20 years ago. You've been involved with your current school for a decade and a half, maybe taught some players. But still, your heart is tugged toward Cornell...after all undergrad was the last blast of your "real" youth and you'll always have fond memories, etc.

Obviously, children are easy. You root for the team your kid plays for.

There must be people here who have dealt with this issue. I'm just curious and I've got hockey withdrawal to deal with.

I'm a born and bred BU fan. My father has season tickets and has been taking me to games since I was very young. I've seen Beanpots, HE tournament games, and even Chris Drury's Hobey Baker ceremony. Ironically, I was at the BU-Cornell series in 2001. Little did I know I'd end up in Ithaca.

Call me what you want, but I've definitely switched loyalties since coming to Cornell. Part of it was that I gradually lost interest in BU hockey once I got to high school and eventually stopped caring. Another part was that I really had no connection to the program. That and being a Cornell fan is much more appealing (as facetimer-ish as that sounds).

Unlike most people here, I'll pull for BU if the circumstances permit. I still yell "Screw BU" though.

Good question. I graduated from Cornell in '92 and went to Michigan from '95-'97 to get my MBA. I was lucky to see two very good seasons, including a national championship and a frozen four loss. I went to all the games obviously, including many on the road. I saw Cornell play at Yost in '97 and took some razzing for wearing my Cornell hockey hat while also wearing a Michigan sweatshirt. It was tough - who to cheer for? The team that won a national championship the year before - something we were never even close to during my Cornell years - or my alma mater? It was a strange feeling. Luckily, it was a 3-3 tie.

I cheer for both Cornell and Michigan. If it came down to the two playing in the NCAAs, however, I would clearly cheer for Cornell but probably wouldn't enjoy the game because one of my teams would be sent home.

It's kind of neat liking two good programs. Chances are, most years, at least one of them will do some damage in the NCAAs.

And I cheer for former Cornell and Michigan players in the NHL too. I watch the Canucks (Brendan Morrison) and Devils (John Madden) quite a bit. And I'm always interested when the Sharks (Doug Murray for a while, not playing recently) or Stars (Marty Turco) play. I hedge my bets.

This is in retrospect an easy question but last year, my first at Cornell, i would have had a harder time with this. Last year i figured Union was in no danger of beating Cornell and was going to have a hard enough time as is, so i wore some Union stuff and cheered for both teams but mostly for Union. When union lost i wasn't sad. This year i figured i woudl repeat the same deal, however when Cornell fell behind i reverted to the passionate Cornell fan i usually am. At that point it was clear to me who my true loyalties were and are for. I haven't looked back since, it just took a little stress to figure out that my heart is with Cornell.

I think there are a few reasons why I have to cheer for Cornell. One, Cornell has been an amazing 2 years for me. It has been better than undergrad. The second reason is a hockey one, people are so passionate here, far more so that at U. This is true be it at home or on the road. I knew more players and even played with a few at Union but hockey was something to do after during and before getting drunk. At Cornell hockey so much more, and as i alluded to above, it is Cornell! I just have to cheer for us, there is really no other rational choice.

Great question! I was raised a UNH (or UHN if you prefer) fan and have been a season ticket holder there for the last 7 years (though I've been a fan for much longer), and I got in to Cornell hockey before the Buffalo Frozen Four, the passion of the fans is what did me in. Thankfully the two haven't played each other since, but with the two squaring off in the Everblades next year I'm totally fucked, more than likely I'll avoid going so I don't have to deal with the situation.

BTW, I spent the entire night before the UNH-Cornell Frozen Four game studying the eLynah cheer page since I figured the 'Cats had no chance and I'd be rooting for Cornell in the championship game, I even packed a red sweatshirt to wear. Whenever any of my UNH friends bring that game up I get noticeably moody and start in on how Cornell got screwed out of the high stick goal (even though I was rooting for UNH).

I was undergrad at Cornell, grad at Michigan (before Red Berenson revived the program) and have season tickets at RIP. I certainly wanted and enjoyed seeing Michigan win their two recent championships including attending the Boston finals in '98.

But I didn't even bring any blue clothing to Buffalo. And no matter how many sores I develop from sitting in the Houston Morgue I will never pull for RIP to win it all.

Undergrad season ticket holders share a certain bond that is very strong for me. I get a feeling in Lynah that is matched no where else on earth. I love to wear my "lucky" shirt(s). I shout louder for Cornell hockey than for any other activity that I attend. Sharing love of this team with my family was one of the best parenting activities that I can imagine. When they beat BC in the regionals in '03 I ran to the glass and pounded on it like I was 18 years old.

And it's all visceral - there is no way to explain what I feel. It's just there.


LGR!

There's almost no way you can apply logic to this situation. You do what you feel. I'll give two examples:

1. I grew up in New Haven a diehard Yale fan in every sport. When it was time to go to college, it became clear that (1) I really wanted to get away from New Haven; and, (2) Cornell had a stronger engineering school. So I went to Cornell and now take great pleasure in seeing Cornell beat Yale. I just wish we'd do it more often in football. But I still root for Yale against the evil Harvard.

2. While I was at Cornell, Clinton Rossiter was one of Cornell's best-known professors. He was a Princeton grad, but attended many Cornell sporting events. I watched him at a swimming meet between the Tigers and Red that came down to the last relay, and as the anchor legs were pushing for the last touch Rossiter was standing on the bench waving his sweater over his head and screaming like an undergraduate--for the Cornell swimmer.

I grew up attending every UVM game from the time I was 5 until I got to Cornell and continue to attend UVM games whenever I'm visitng the parents during hockey season. But, from the first few games at Lynah, I was rooting for Cornell first but for UVM in any game they had other than one against us.

Graduated in '91 and kept my loyalties in that same order. I then went to Michigan for B-school from '97 to '99. I was certainly a Michigan fan at the time, but had they played Cornell or UVM I would have rooted for Cornell or UVM. I was at the Fleet Center to see Michigan Beat BC in the final in overtime in '98 and was ecstatic. But I know that I would have felt 10x more out of my mind if it was Cornell that had won the whole thing.

THe 2003 Frozen Four made an interesting scenario, with Michigan in one semi and Cornell in the other. On semi day, I wore a cornell sweatshirt over a Michigan one. I flip-flopped them for the other game. It mattered more to me that Cornell would win their game, but I was still rooted for Michigan in theirs.

Of course, with my luck, somehow they both lost and I didn't have anyone to root for in the final. Well, I think I stuck east and rooted for UHN instead of those cheerleading having gophers...

Had it been Michigan-Cornell final I would have rooted for Cornell without a doubt. But depending how the game went I can't say how I'd feel with a Cornell loss. Probably crushed if it was a close tough loss, but not so bad if we got blown out.

So I'd rank my rooting interests this way:
1) Cornell first, always.
2) UVM second, but I probably could root against them if they were playing a game where Cornell needed to see them lose to say, Providence.
3) Michign third.

I've talked about this one in other posts and hesitate to reguritate it all again, but I was an undergrad at Cornell during the late Harkness/early Bertrand years and was there for the perfect season. I was in grad school at Michigan 72-78. The hockey program had fallen on very hard times but turned around while I was there, improving enough to make it to the Frozen Four finals in 77 before falling to Wisconsin. I enjoyed rooting for both programs immensely but for different reasons. Cornell's fast-paced, skate-through-brick-walls style was tremendous fun to watch. Michigan's game was defense-oriented and used a simple, ugly, dump-and-chase offense that always seemed to keep them in games. It was fun to root for a bunch of over-achievers who always seemed to be underdogs, no matter which opponent they faced.

Both teams' games have obviously changed a lot since then, and if anything Michigan's current game roughly resembles the old Cornell style more than it does the old Michigan style, and vice versa. I continue to follow and root for both programs.

The 2003 Frozen Four presented a tough prospect. If both Michigan and Cornell had advanced, they would have faced each other in the finals. I have to confess that I would have felt conflicted, but in the end I know what color I bleed. When I went to the Frozen Four in 77 and watched Michigan play and beat a more skilled BU squad, I had an inkling then how I would choose. It was a lot of fun watching a fast-skating Eastern team in red and white, and I knew how I would be cheering if that team had been from a little further west.

If these two programs do ever face each other again, I will be pulling something out of my closet that I picked up at the Campus Store a long time ago - a maize-and-blue Cornell sweatshirt.

OK, I have the simplest situation...
Went to Cornell from 92-97 (architecture), and then went to Harvard 2000-2004. Guess which team I root for, and which team I don't?

Crodge2K, no comments about turn-jersey...

Al DeFlorio
1. I grew up in New Haven a diehard Yale fan in every sport. When it was time to go to college, it became clear that (1) I really wanted to get away from New Haven; and, (2) Cornell had a stronger engineering school. So I went to Cornell and now take great pleasure in seeing Cornell beat Yale. I just wish we'd do it more often in football. But I still root for Yale against the evil Harvard.

Replace "New Haven" with "Connecticut" and you've got me. I didn't see many football games while an undergrad, but I saw every Yale-Cornell football game, and turned quite a few heads cheering for Cornell in my parents' seats at the Yale Bowl's 50 yd line. Now if only I can get my dad into Lynah for a Yale-Cornell game...

My HR professor here at Cornell is a Colorado College grad ... He said he wasn't rooting for anyone last week, just wanted to see a good game. Growing up in Ithaca, I've got a few friends who have gone to schools Cornell plays against, and the vast majority still cheer for the Big Red when they meet.

mjh89
My HR professor here at Cornell is a Colorado College grad ... He said he wasn't rooting for anyone last week, just wanted to see a good game. Growing up in Ithaca, I've got a few friends who have gone to schools Cornell plays against, and the vast majority still cheer for the Big Red when they meet.

HR? Human Resources?

\Every Cornellian I've met who grew up rooting for another ECAC school switched TO Cornell once they became students. Interesting that your friends didn't switch FROM Cornell when they enrolled elsewhere...

It's very rare that someone builds up the emotional attachment to a team in grad school the way they do from their undergad years. Grad students are basically poorly paid university employees. There's little or no emotional attachment, or even affection, involved. And the gap between doctoral candidates and undergrad student athletes is so large that you might just as well ask me whether I follow the Raytheon fastpitch softball team. If there's any contact at all, it's as TAs or lecturers, and that's probably just liable to result in mutual contempt.

Trotsky
It's very rare that someone builds up the emotional attachment to a team in grad school the way they do from their undergad years. Grad students are basically poorly paid university employees. There's little or no emotional attachment, or even affection, involved. And the gap between doctoral candidates and undergrad student athletes is so large that you might just as well ask me whether I follow the Raytheon fastpitch softball team. If there's any contact at all, it's as TAs or lecturers, and that's probably just liable to result in mutual contempt.

Then, according to Trotsky, I am indeed rare and unique, thanks! . I went to undergrad at Trinity College, a small DIII school in CT. Trinity had a strong athletic programs in most sports including hockey. However, when I was at Trinity, the hockey team played its games at the Kingswood-Oxford rink at good 15-20 minutes away by car, and the school did not provide any transportation from campus to the games. I didn't have a car and was too poor to risk my life in a cab ride from campus to the rink and back, thus I never got the opportunity to watch them play, or develop that "connection", even though I loved hockey.

I must admit I did opt to go to grad school at Cornell for the Hockey opportunities as much as the academics and research. I used to play ice hockey as a child and wanted to play again, so having Lynah Rink right next to the Biotech building was a big selling point. Also the women grad students in the program had an Intramural ice hockey team. I began by following the Big Red through the Daily Sun and listening to the games on the radio. I bought tickets to my first Cornell hockey game from someone who worked in the same research building, thus I sat with the "townies". It was in Fall of 1992, a 3-2 loss to Yale. The following season I was dating an undergrad who got a season ticket for me, and then in the years after that I was a lucky beneficiary of the lottery system.

I spent a lot of time in graduate school, due in part to the intramural hockey expanding into travel hockey and a lot of pick-up hockey. Even though I had no direct contact with any of the players, I was always passionate about the game of hockey and loved the passion that members of the Cornell and Ithaca communities had for it and the Big Red. When I moved out to Oregon, I willingly subscribed to Real Audio so I could listen to the games, and even now give my money to CSTV with the hope of being able to hear and/or watch the games from Indiana. Since 2002, I have been able to watch Cornell play, in person, in Florida. This year I went to Green Bay to watch them (and really regretted not going to MN last year).

Not that I knew many other graduate students, but there were a few who did follow Cornell hockey and they would go to games when offered free tickets. Tickets were definitely a luxury item considering the stipend and other living expenses. Each year I would take out a small student loan to cover some necessary expenditures that came up each year: good car tune-up, Cornell hockey tickets, and student health insurance. I got really hooked on Cornell hockey and made sure I got tickets.

However, most of what Trotsky says is true, but there is at least one exception . I was very lucky to be at Cornell during the "lottery years". There is no way I could have gotten tickets via the line method unless I could find someone who didn't have to be in a lab 12+ hrs/day and could hold my place in line. I probably would not have fared any better under the current "stampede" system.

Without starting a new thread (or adding to the old ones), I would like to see Cornell reserve a few tickets for Graduate students and make those available via a lottery, either on an individual game basis and/or a season ticket. There are grad students who would like to go to the games but either cannot afford a season ticket or cannot alter their research commitments to the "systems" that the athletic department has devised for ticket distribution. Just my 2 cents.

Rita

Trotsky
It's very rare that someone builds up the emotional attachment to a team in grad school the way they do from their undergad years. Grad students are basically poorly paid university employees. There's little or no emotional attachment, or even affection, involved. And the gap between doctoral candidates and undergrad student athletes is so large that you might just as well ask me whether I follow the Raytheon fastpitch softball team. If there's any contact at all, it's as TAs or lecturers, and that's probably just liable to result in mutual contempt.

Then, according to Trotsky, I am indeed rare and unique, thanks! . I went to undergrad at Trinity College, a small DIII school in CT.

Amazing. I was going to post something about the exception being people who went to college at a small school without a lot of fan interest in sports* and then grad school at a campus with big time intercollegiate athletics. And then Rita went and proved my point before I had a chance to make it.

As another example, people who hung around the Round Table probably remember Bob Mulligan (if I remember his name) - he went to Binghamton but did graduate work at Clarkson and instantly became a knight nut.


*Fan interest here is distinguished from university support and committed athletes. Rita can correct me, but I doubt that Trinity had packed houses for any sports.

ugarte

Rita

Trotsky
It's very rare that someone builds up the emotional attachment to a team in grad school the way they do from their undergad years. Grad students are basically poorly paid university employees. There's little or no emotional attachment, or even affection, involved. And the gap between doctoral candidates and undergrad student athletes is so large that you might just as well ask me whether I follow the Raytheon fastpitch softball team. If there's any contact at all, it's as TAs or lecturers, and that's probably just liable to result in mutual contempt.

Then, according to Trotsky, I am indeed rare and unique, thanks! . I went to undergrad at Trinity College, a small DIII school in CT.

Amazing. I was going to post something about the exception being people who went to college at a small school without a lot of fan interest in sports* and then grad school at a campus with big time intercollegiate athletics. And then Rita went and proved my point before I had a chance to make it.

As another example, people who hung around the Round Table probably remember Bob Mulligan (if I remember his name) - he went to Binghamton but did graduate work at Clarkson and instantly became a knight nut.


*Fan interest here is distinguished from university support and committed athletes. Rita can correct me, but I doubt that Trinity had packed houses for any sports.

For the most part no. There was one year, 1989 or maybe 1990 when the basketball team was doing really well, and the gym was packed for the games that season (a packed gym was ~ 1200 people if IIRC). The football games usually had a decent turnout for a small school, and that was probably attributed to campus security turning a blind eye to a lot of pre- and during game "social activities" and also to there being not much else to do in Hartford on a Saturday afternoon.

RedAR
Crodge2K, no comments about turn-jersey...

Oh, I wouldn't ever suggest that you might be a turn-jersey, would I?

When it comes down to it, though, I know you bleed carnelian red.