Recruits 2006 - the Offseason thread

So, figured it was time for a new thread on this.

And I'll start it out with a question. Does anyone know why Heisenberg lists Davenport as a junior despite only having one year of acaemics behind him, yet lists Fontas as a junior, despite having played two years at UML and being at Cornell all this year?

I mean, I guess I can understand Davenport being denied sophomore status for taking the year off if the Ivies really want to be mean about it, but then how would Fontas get junior status when the guy has been in school. That leaves two weird situations: Fontas potentially graduating despite being a 'junior', and Davenport having not graduated, nor having even been in school four years, but no longer eligible to play.

I'm pretty sure Davenport will be a sophomore.

I think Fontas' situation is that next year he will have 2 seasons of eligibilty left, but will be a senior academically, so it's grad school for him probably

Fontas is going to be a big X-factor on how next year's team performs. Even with losing McKee and Moulson, I still think the biggest position(s) that the team will have to replace is the 2/3 center position left vacant by Abbott and Pegoraro and Iggulden in 04-05. Fontas is the type of guy who can be a really effective third line center because he has good size and skating ability and is known for his defensive strengths. If he can step right into that role and be great defensively against the opposition's top players and be a big faceoff presence and penalty killer, I think that could go a very long way in next year's team having success.

calgARI '07
I'm pretty sure Davenport will be a sophomore.

I hope so. Its seems pretty hard to me to tell a guy he's a junior when he only spent one year in school. I mean I'd understand if he went elsewhere or just stopped playing, you could refuse to grant the extra year of eligibility, but its a hard argument to make when the guy isn't even in classes. Hopefully you're right, just tell Heisenberg

DeltaOne81

I mean, I guess I can understand Davenport being denied sophomore status for taking the year off if the Ivies really want to be mean about it, but then how would Fontas get junior status when the guy has been in school. That leaves two weird situations: Fontas potentially graduating despite being a 'junior', and Davenport having not graduated, nor having even been in school four years, but no longer eligible to play.

though he did not play this year in college, his 4 year clock was still ticking acording to NCAA rules. he is a hockey junior, with only 2 seasons left to play uless he can get a retroactive redshirt, which he won't.

The Rancor
though he did not play this year in college, his 4 year clock was still ticking acording to NCAA rules. he is a hockey junior, with only 2 seasons left to play uless he can get a retroactive redshirt, which he won't.

Well, but, you have 5 years to use your 4 years of eligibility.

If Davenport doesn't get a 'red shirt' (non-medical of course, unless there's a different) for not even being in college, then why would Fontas get one for chosing to transfer? It seems like not even being in school at all would be about the best reason to use your 4 eligible years in a 5 year time frame.

DeltaOne81

The Rancor
though he did not play this year in college, his 4 year clock was still ticking acording to NCAA rules. he is a hockey junior, with only 2 seasons left to play uless he can get a retroactive redshirt, which he won't.

Well, but, you have 5 years to use your 4 years of eligibility.

If Davenport doesn't get a 'red shirt' (non-medical of course, unless there's a different) for not even being in college, then why would Fontas get one for chosing to transfer? It seems like not even being in school at all would be about the best reason to use your 4 eligible years in a 5 year time frame.

i did not know you had 5 years to play 4. what if you are a 2 sport player? can you use them consecutively?

Aha. I've posted this before, but had never been able to find a source. From The 1996 revision of the Ivy Manual, Part V, A-1-b:

Subject to V-A-2 below, all students are expected to use their years of varsity eligibility in a particular sport during the first four seasons of that sport (even though they may be formally enrolled in a five-year program), provided the student is enrolled as a full-time student during each of those seasons.

And Part V-A-3-a:

A student shall not represent an institution in intercollegiate competition after a period of five calendar years from the first date of matriculation at any university, college or junior college without specific approval of the Ivy Group (Council/Policy, 1978).

So I was right, in that you're supposed to use your eligibility in your first four years, but only if you're enrolled in those years. It's hard to glean what happens when a student takes a leave of absence, as Davenport has. It seems to be on a case-by-case basis (there's even a template of a form to file documenting why the student took the leave, what participation, if any, he's had in the sport during the leave, etc), and there doesn't seem to be much commentary on how the eligibility decisions will be made.

From the spirit of the document, though, I'm guessing that if you went to them and said, "hi - I was sitting on the bench behind our clear #1 goalie, so I took a year off from school to play juniors because I didn't want to lose a year of eligibility. Can I still play 3 more years?" that they'd pretty much laugh you out of the office. It is repeated over and over and over ad nauseam throughout the document that students are expected to be making progress toward degrees and that athletics should not interfere with academics. The #10 item on the Statement of Principles is:

Athletic participation ought never to interfere with or otherwise to distort normal academic progress toward the degree or post-baccalaureate plans for graduate work or employment.

I'm pretty sure that dropping out of school just to game the system to get a red shirt year "distorts normal academic progress."

So, basically, Davenport needs to convince them that he was struggling academically, felt that Cornell would be the right place someday, just not right then, and that the leave of absence has clarified his academic goals. Good luck to him

Fair enough, but why then would Fontas be given junior status as well, when we was enrolled the whole time, and transferred with the explicit knowledge that it would mean he would lose a year. I could see them both losing a year, or neither, or only Fontas (since he was enrolled), but I don't get how only Davenport could lose the year.

I guess if the key is 'participation' in the sport, then Fontas could get an exception (although he was definitely participating). But considering "provided the student is enrolled" is in the wording of the rule, I would think that would be even more important.

Would Fontas's situation be different because he is a transfer student and the NC$$ mandates that you *must* sit out a year when transferring between DI programs (unless there are extremely extenuating circumstances, like a murder). Would such a NC$$ mandate override the Ivy rules posted above by Robb?

Does anyone know if Schafer try to recruit Fontas before (but lost to UML)? Also, I wonder if expectations (from both the coaches' and fans' perspectives) are different for transfers and freshmen players. I mean, having a 110% trust in Coach Schafer, I imagine that he must have seen something in Chris Fontas's play that he knew Fontas would/could/should help the team greatly and quickly.

min
Does anyone know if Schafer try to recruit Fontas before (but lost to UML)? Also, I wonder if expectations (from both the coaches' and fans' perspectives) are different for transfers and freshmen players. I mean, having a 110% trust in Coach Schafer, I imagine that he must have seen something in Chris Fontas's play that he knew Fontas would/could/should help the team greatly and quickly.

If we were recruiting Fontas initially, we didn't make the final group. From a uscho post a while ago, mentioning his transfer to Cornell:

"Fontas is an excellent student, and picked the River Hawks over UMass, Brown, RPI, Yale and Dartmouth."

There may be somewhat of a precedent for Davenport's situation. Roy Kerling did not play what would have been his sophomore season at Cornell (78-79 -- I'm under the impression that he left due to academic difficulties, but I may be mistaken), and he was able to come back the next season and use his remaining three years of eligibility. I don't know if he had to petition anybody or not.

Vinnie Auger was able to take a medical redshirt after missing an entire season due to a back injury, but he had to petition the Ivies to grant him the extra year.

I don't think leaving for juniors has any effect on college eligibility. Todd Marr, while he was at Northeastern, left for juniors halfway through his freshman season and was able to return for his sophomore season. He then left halfway through the season again, but after transferring and sitting out a year was able to use his remaining two years of eligibility at Cornell (though I don't know if the Ivies had to be persuaded to let him do this).

My uneducated guess is that Davenport and Cornell will have to petition the Ivies to allow him to use his entire three years, and that they will let him do so.

Hi folks,
Just thought I'd ask for some ideas? I have a cousin (16 yr old) Midget AAA high level player from Lansing/Ann Arbor Michigan area who is going to visit Cornell 4/18 jsut to see the campus and talk to folks - he dreams of playing top div 1 level hockey and or Lax - he's good at both and basically a 4.0 student in HS - I am going to host him and his Dad overnight on their visit - Hoping to make a positive impression. (I know how good and competitive both his parents are!) He has lotsa choices leaning to D III so he can play both lax and Hockey. Coach at Middlebury is after him and might be a good fit; but What about chances for playing both at Cornell - ?? comments

Or reasons to pick Cornell over D-III good school like Middlebury or Williams etc.

Note he visits BU and BC later in week - his mom is running in the Boston Marathon.

I think it's probably far more difficult these days at the Div. I level than it used to be to play both hockey and lacrosse seriously. He may truly be better off at a Div. III school if that is his most fervent wish and his overriding criterion. Plus, you can hardly beat Middlebury hockey for a chance at a national title, if you're willing to acknowledge that maybe you're the big-fish-in-little-pond type rather than someone with the potential to make an impact in D-I.

If I were you, I'd let most things speak for themselves; show him and his father around the campus, show them the Campaign for Lynah Rink DVD if you have it (and if you don't, you can get one from Athletics Development), and maybe even show them the eLynah Forum - short of getting him to a game, which you can't do this time of year, this may be the best way of demonstrating how much Cornellians care about their hockey. There's nothing to guarantee that Coach would think this particular kid fits into Cornell's plans, but there's certainly no harm in helping the kid want to try.

Beeeej

Justin Milo will be plaing both hockey and baseball but it is very uncommon for someone to play two DI sports, though not unheard of.

Ben Lovejoy of the Dartmouth men's hockey team also plays lacrosse. They were talking about him quite a bit during the ND/Dartmouth lax game on CSTV this week, as he'd just returned to the team. So its not unprecedented, nor impossible, but it is quite rare.

Between you and me, I hear Lovejoy also Offers Devine Johnson Swallow... but that could just be a rumor.

Beeej, and all thanks for the input -
He will be seen at camps/tourneys he attends over the next year - I think Bowling Green is coming up soon and most schools have one or 2 coaches there - I agree the D III may be his best bet if he truly wants to compete in both sports -

He plans on touring campus and looking at Lynah - he has played with a lot of good kids the last several years several on Nat U18 team now or in good programs.

Hope to see and meet folks at Frozen Four in Milwaukee -

calgARI '07
... but it is very uncommon for someone to play two DI sports, though not unheard of.

And that's one of the things that are wrong with college sports these days. All of youth sports for that matter. It's great to be superior at your sport, but participation in multiple sports and multiple activities is something that should be encouraged as much as possible.[/soapbox]

(I was about to write, "I'll get down from my soapbox now". But then do I ever really get down?)

KeithK
And that's one of the things that are wrong with college sports these days.

But it sounds like it's much more common at the D-III level, where being good enough to letter in two sports is likely for a well-motivated athlete.

To be competitive at the D-I level in one of the big sports, it's likely you simply need to eat, sleep, and breathe that one particular sport. I don't think this is either good or bad; it simply is. If you want to see the highest level of play in your favorite D-I team, there are simply other characteristics that are going to go along with that.

Kyle

fenwick
There may be somewhat of a precedent for Davenport's situation. Roy Kerling did not play what would have been his sophomore season at Cornell (78-79 -- I'm under the impression that he left due to academic difficulties, but I may be mistaken), and he was able to come back the next season and use his remaining three years of eligibility. I don't know if he had to petition anybody or not.

Kerling did miss a semester due to grades. What he did:

- Screw up the spring semester.
- Get forced to take a semester off
- Take courses at TC3 during the fall.
- Practice with the team (but don't play)
- Return in the following spring.

Steve Hennessey did the same thing the year before.

Jeff Hopkins '82

fenwick
There may be somewhat of a precedent for Davenport's situation. Roy Kerling did not play what would have been his sophomore season at Cornell (78-79 -- I'm under the impression that he left due to academic difficulties, but I may be mistaken), and he was able to come back the next season and use his remaining three years of eligibility. I don't know if he had to petition anybody or not.

Kerling did miss a semester due to grades. What he did:

- Screw up the spring semester.
- Get forced to take a semester off
- Take courses at TC3 during the fall.
- Practice with the team (but don't play)
- Return in the following spring.

Steve Hennessey did the same thing the year before.

I seem to recall that P.C. Drouin '96 spent a semester at TC3 as well.

Mike Karwoski of yale also plays on the lacrosse team.

KeithK
I seem to recall that P.C. Drouin '96 spent a semester at TC3 as well.

I had a housemate that referred to him as TC3 Drouin.

nyc94

KeithK
I seem to recall that P.C. Drouin '96 spent a semester at TC3 as well.

I had a housemate that referred to him as TC3 Drouin.

Yeah, I remember that nickname too.

Jeff Hopkins '82
Kerling did miss a semester due to grades. What he did:

- Screw up the spring semester.
- Get forced to take a semester off
- Take courses at TC3 during the fall.
- Practice with the team (but don't play)
- Return in the following spring.

Steve Hennessey did the same thing the year before.

Was there a high highball involved?

Agreed, the best competition for a sport will come from those who love that sport and only that sport.

In case you haven't seen these web sites, you should read them:
For potential recruits: [cornellbigred.cstv.com]
For alumni interested in recruiting: [caaan.admissions.cornell.edu]

if he is from michigan, it is a good bet the coaches hae seen him and are interested if he is good or have passed, they don't miss much in michigan

In a funny coincidence pointed out at Big Red Puckhead [bigredpuckhead.blogspot.com], a week after McKee's final game for the Red, Davenport won on the same ice at the Resch Center.

Not our recruit, but I played goalie in a skate with Jason Williams, who is going to Colgate next year. Admittedly, I don't normally play with guys of that level, but what a wrist shot he has. He was on my team and put a couple of lasers by the other goalie from out by the top of the face off circles. He also gets the shot off amazingly quickly. The guys won't want to leave him alone in the slot if he develops into a regular player.