Section G

As enjoyable as tonights game was, there was a bit of an uprising in section G. About halfway through the first period, the cops (especially the one who must eat about a dozen donuts a day...for those of you who are at the game, I am sure you know who I am talking about) began ordering students in Section G to sit down. Since this year, as in other years, the demand for hockey tickets was so great, Section G is almost entirely made up of students. However, the cops continued to order people to sit down until they began to throw people out of the game (quite forecefully to several girls). The coup de gras came when the aformentioned cop came into the middle of seciton ordering a student to leave. When this student asked what he had done the cop reached for the pepper spray and was ready to go after the kid until the kid left.
Now, according to the cops, the head of Cornell Hockey ticketing (Gene something...i can't remember) had sent the order for everyone to sit down. But when we approached Gene he said he had given no such order. Nevertheless people continued to be escorted out and chants began to develop at the cops that were doing the escorting.
This situation begs to ask the question...what is a Cornell hockey game where one can't go and stand and support the home team. The entire section G began to stand in protest and things were getting ugly until they told us we could stand until tomorrow. By then, they are apparently going to work out whether we are allowed to stand or not. However, I and many other people in this section feel that sitting severely takes away the fun in the section. Sicne we are all students and season ticket holders, there is no reason we cannot stand. If I were a prestigous professor who decided to stand during the game I doubt they would care. Anyway, I am hoping for any comments from people both who were there and who were not as to what their impressions of this fiasco are.

That's nothing new in G. I sat there freshman year ('98-'99) and the ushers always made us sit.

Pepper spray for standing up??? Are you kidding me. . .will it ever end???

They just keep coming up with new way to stick it to the Faithful

Graham, I sit in B and section G has to be at least 90% students. They put in their time in line they should have the same experience as the rest of the student sections and be allowed to stand.

but that's just my $.02

Thanks Ben...all of the people that I know in the section waited out like the rest of the student sections. I and several others have been going to games for the last six years (not because I am a perpetual student...but because I am doing my vet degree here as well) and feel that this is a huge slight to the Lynah faithful to which we are a part of.

I understand the feeling that one would have for wanting to stand and show your support for the team. However you must balance that with the rights of others to be able to view the game unobstructed. Complaints were registered by ticket holders in section "H" who felt that thier views were being obstucted by those that were standing. Who's right? I don't have that answer - but some type of compromise must be reached.

I wasn't saying that it's right that Section G can't stand, I'm just saying it's been like that for a while.

Simple solution. Those who want to sit can swap seats with last minute student buyers in N and O who would gladly give an arm and a leg to be standing on the 'student side.' Rather than bringing out the pepper spray, simply ask people to swap.

[q] This situation begs to ask the question...what is a Cornell hockey game where one can't go and stand and support the home team.[/q]

What is a Cornell hockey game where fans are more interested at bitching and booing one incident that actually watching the game? Both rousing boos came when our team was setting up nicely on offense in the second period. I don't think I'd like to hear random booing if I were a player on the ice.

I'm not saying I don't think you should stand. I'm just saying that a good number of fans in sections F and G looked a little foolish for a while tonight. I'm sure you're all great fans, but that was obscured a little tonight.

I'll chime in with a couple things on this one. First, according to a friend of mine who was in upper F, the only reason the cops layed off tonight was because some law students talked to the cop after the pepper spray incident - telling him he was really pushing his authority and rights. This information is second hand, but it's from a good friend.

As far as people in H complaining, well, I kinda see it and kinda not. Overall, I think that the spirit of the Faithful is just more important, whether you're in G or B. The fact is (as my father has commented) if people in the student section sat down, you could see the far corner (by A) much better from where I am (E). But I'd much rather be standing even if it means I miss a corner, big deal.

Finally, as for the fans in that area looking foolish. I don't know. I think it's pretty important. They've told us we can't throw fish, can't swear, or can't stand up (notice a pattern?) - if you don't let whichever cop/usher/administrator is on a power trip that day know that you're watching and won't let it happen without a fight, then who knows what they'll try to restrict next. It's a shame that these four years have taught me that the Faithful have to fight for their traditions, but we do, a couple bad minutes is well worth it, IMHO.

-Fred

You'd think that would work, but it didn't go over at Placid last year. One group of people messed it up for all of us.

We stood anyway.

My opinion...if the people in section H can't see the game because the students in section G, who did their time in the line just like all (well, most) of the other students, are standing and showing their support for Cornell Men's Ice Hockey, tough. They shound stand as well. There's a reason we shout "Townies up, townies up!" near the end of the game. We, the students, really do want them to be cheering the Big Red on as adamantly as we do. Hockey is a wild and vicious sport; the least the fans can do is stand up.

I happen to sit in the upper half of Section H, and I really don't see how it's possible that anyone in Section G, standing or sitting, can block any view of the ice that the boards aren't already blocking. The only thing that Section G is blocking from my seat is a view of Section F, and who wants to watch those guys?

As far as H standing, I'd love it, and there are a good number of students sitting in Section H. But looking at the fans behind us, there are also a good number of older fans as well, and I doubt all of them would stand or like having their view blocked by us, so we sit out of respect for them. We still have a good time. But we definitely jump up for goals and other appropriate exciting moments.

> We, the students, really do want them to be cheering the Big Red on as adamantly as we do. Hockey is a wild and vicious sport; the least the fans can do is stand up.

Sorry, but this is a load. I stand for the games when I'm not obstructing people, but I sit when I am obstructing somebody. This isn't a question of civil liberties. It's politeness.

Also, most of these "adamant" students are facetimers, and most of those boring, passionless townies have been coming to games and supporting the team for 20+ years and care a helluva lot more about Cornell hockey than the students.

The Faithful are about more than chanting "sucks" every five seconds and getting wasted at Dunbar's.

Amen, Greg.

And it wasn't even all that long ago that the tradition was not to stand for the whole game, but to stand only until Cornell scored their first goal - at which point the Faithful were generally pretty glad to get to sit down. So while it's pretty frustrating that the cops would enforce their will so selectively and abusively, the "fighting for tradition" argument doesn't hold a lot of water with me. If you really want to start fighting for tradition, you'd better be willing to ask Section B to sit down after Cornell's first goal of the evening.

Beeeej

Try coming up with another approach. "Townies up" is one of the stupider and ruder things I've heard in Lynah, and I've heard some really rude stuff.

"Stand up" would work pretty well without insulting anyone, and would cover everyone at Lynah.

Anyway, the question is whether people's view is really being blocked. The fans in Section H have as much right to enjoy the game as anyone else, and if by standing up, fans in Section G are blocking their view, it's not unreasonable to ask them -- politely and without threat of assault, mind you -- to sit down. Not everyone could stand for the whole game even if they wanted to.

Gene Nighman <gmn5@cornell.edu> is the manager of the Athletics ticket office.

Mark H. Anbinder wrote:

Try coming up with another approach. "Townies up" is one of the stupider and ruder things I've heard in Lynah, and I've heard some really rude stuff.

I think the key thing is that it's rude to people who are on our side.

"Stand up" would work pretty well without insulting anyone, and would cover everyone at Lynah.

In Bern (and my one experience in Berlin leads me to believe that this is generically true in German-speaking Europe), there are Stehplaetze and Sitzplaetze, standing and sitting sections of the arena. (A Sitzplatz ticket costs twice as much as a Stehplatz, which was a good deal for those of us who wanted to stand, but that's another story.) In the last few minutes of a close game or victory, the Stehplatz fans will exhort those in the Sitzplatz to stand by singing "Steht auf, wenn ihr Berner seid", which means "Stand up if you're Bernese". I've been trying to think of a Cornell version for the past three years or so. Mercifully for those who dislike my Knöpfli cheer (which seems to be everyone), there's no good two-syllable word for Cornellian, so the best I've been able to come up with is "Stand up, if you're for Cornell" to the same tune. I'd be game to try and start that as an alternative, but it's less primal than a three-syllable chant.

[Q]I stand for the games when I'm not obstructing people, but I sit when I am obstructing somebody. This isn't a question of civil liberties. It's politeness. [/Q]
Fine. But, as "Section H" just said, it seems as if the people in G aren't obstructing their view at any point, so it's a moot point. If it turns out later there were actually a number of complaints coming from H about the obstructed view, I'll retract this.

[Q]Also, most of these "adamant" students are facetimers, and most of those boring, passionless townies have been coming to games and supporting the team for 20+ years and care a helluva lot more about Cornell hockey than the students.[/Q]
I never denied the townies, err, that is, the local residents of Ithaca and surrounding areas, weren't ardent fans in their own right. After all, they each pay (directly) twice as much per season ticket as the students do thanks to the Student Activities fee. I should note that some of my best student friends are also local residents of Ithaca and surrounding areas and have been Cornell hockey fans for quite some time themselves. And remember, "boring" and "passionless" are your words, Greg, not mine.

[Q]The Faithful are about more than chanting "sucks" every five seconds and getting wasted at Dunbar's.[/Q]
I'm insulted that you seem to be insinuating that that's all the student fans are all about. I've been a big fan since I came to Cornell over three years ago. Cheering and mocking the other team is a part of why I love hockey, but it's not the only part. The facetimers won't get this, but I think you're grossly underestimating the number of hardcore students fans there are.

[Q]And it wasn't even all that long ago that the tradition was not to stand for the whole game, but to stand only until Cornell scored their first goal - at which point the Faithful were generally pretty glad to get to sit down. So while it's pretty frustrating that the cops would enforce their will so selectively and abusively, the "fighting for tradition" argument doesn't hold a lot of water with me. If you really want to start fighting for tradition, you'd better be willing to ask Section B to sit down after Cornell's first goal of the evening.[/Q]
My argument wasn't "fighting for tradition" so much as it was "getting all of the fans to actively show their support at the games", although that seems to have different interpretations. Beeeej, if you want to reinvigorate the sitting down after the first goal tradition, though, be my guest.

[Q]Try coming up with another approach. "Townies up" is one of the stupider and ruder things I've heard in Lynah, and I've heard some really rude stuff.

"Stand up" would work pretty well without insulting anyone, and would cover everyone at Lynah.[/Q]
I can't speak for all the students, but when I say "townies", I never mean it as an insult. "Townies" is just easier to say than "the local residents of Ithaca and surrounding areas". It shouldn't be taken (or used) as a derogatory term. I'm happy to see a real mass example of town-gown relations. I'm not sure Ithaca has any other venue (except for a few other Cornell sporting events, like football games) where a great number of students and the local residents of Ithaca and surrounding areas can get together to celebrate a common cause or fanaticism.

Mark H. Anbinder wrote:

Anyway, the question is whether people's view is really being blocked. The fans in Section H have as much right to enjoy the game as anyone else, and if by standing up, fans in Section G are blocking their view, it's not unreasonable to ask them -- politely and without threat of assault, mind you -- to sit down.

I'd say Mark, as he seems often to do, has gotten at the crux of the matter in these two sentences.

I can't visualize Lynah well enough to give an opinion on the Section H sight-line issue, but if the view is in fact blocked by standees in G, then I think the fans in H have a legitimate complaint. The begged question is: how was this first handled with the folks in G? Were notes placed on their seats explaining the situation and asking their cooperation, or something similar? Or did things begin with threats and intimidation.

Although, since I don't live in Ithaca, I don't know if I qualify as a townie, I don't particularly mind the "Townies Up" cheer. It's particularly appropriate at the end of a close game. However I do mind if it's used to imply we are better than you are, or the like.

I completely agree with Greg, WOW. Politeness should govern our actions. Those who have stated it are right, there are some people on my side of the rink who could not physically stand for the game. I have an ILR professor who is semiretired and has to use the elevator to get to the second floor to the CHA room inbetween periods. Would you sacrifice his participation by making him stand. If so, you would be throwing away someone who still buys tickets, even though because of his wifes health he has to go to Florida and miss the second half of the season. By the way he gives the rest of his tickets back to the ILR school so they can give them out to alums and others who might be visiting.

All of us are Lynah Faithful, but everyone in their own way. I'm proud that the students stand for the game, and I tell all my non-CU friends about it, but we must all respect each other's feelings. Oterwise Lynah is not Faithful but a jail.

The ball is now in the U's court. They must find a way to satisfy all of the Faithful. If you truly want to make a difference, offer to sit down with them and work out a solution.

[Q]The begged question is: how was this first handled with the folks in G? Were notes placed on their seats explaining the situation and asking their cooperation, or something similar? Or did things begin with threats and intimidation.[/Q]

I can only attest to what I witnessed. Some students in G had been standing (pushed by some of the louder fans in E and F into doing so, since G generally does sit for the majority of the game). I saw a cop (I was told that it was Officer Love, whose name garnered more than a few chuckles) approach some students and eject them from the game. This happened probably about six or seven times in total. Around the fifth or sixth time, one group of students was a little more ardent about refusing to leave than the prior groups were, and the cop pulled out the mace and appeared to threaten to use it. That group left willingly shortly thereafter. At one point towards the end of the series of ejections, I spotted Gene at the top of section G, though I wasn't sure what he was doing exactly.

And now, the assumptions. I assume that, before the first ejection, one of the athletic staff had asked the first group of students to sit down (probably after a complaint from someone in H, although I certainly can't verify that at all), and either they didn't, or they did so but later stood back up, at which point the cop was asked to intervene. However, after the first two or so ejections, I paid closer attention to what was going on in G, and I didn't see any more athletic staff asking specific people to sit down. All I saw was the cop continuing to eject one group of people at a time, which in my mind seems wrong. People should have a warning, and the first group being ejected isn't a valid warning to all the others in my book. (But it seems people rarely follow my book, so what do I know?) I assume Gene came by after the complaints from the ejected students, the athletic staff, the cops, and/or section H became evident.

Oh, one thing I forgot to mention. At one point, I believe the cop directed one group of ejected students to look at the back of their tickets. I assume he was directing the students to the part that says, "Any person who engages in disorderly or disruptive conduct such as profanity and abusive or threatening language, or the throwing of objects, shall be subject to removal without refund." (I seriously doubt that he wanted to inform them that they could get $5 off at Dick's Sporting Goods.) I assume that standing up is a form of "disruptive conduct" in their minds.

Al DeFlorio wrote:

Mark H. Anbinder wrote:

I can't visualize Lynah well enough to give an opinion on the Section H sight-line issue, but if the view is in fact blocked by standees in G, then I think the fans in H have a legitimate complaint.

I agree, to a point, but we should be careful not to get into the cycle where G has to sit so H has an unobstructed view, then F has to sit so G has an unobstructed view, etc. Also, as a season-ticket holder in section C, let me say that under NO circumstances should students in B and D be made to sit to give C a clear view of the ice. That's exactly the sort of thing people were afraid would happen when they put the booster seats in C, and it would kill Lynah in exactly the way everyone feared. (Of course, I'd also prefer it if C stood as well, but that's an argument for another day.)

[Q]I agree, to a point, but we should be careful not to get into the cycle where G has to sit so H has an unobstructed view, then F has to sit so G has an unobstructed view, etc.[/Q]

Well, to be fair, I don't think that particular event will ever happen. F doesn't block anyone's view of the ice whatsoever. Now, if G wants to look at the ugly mugs in E, well, that's another story.

[q][q]And it wasn't even all that long ago that the tradition was not to stand for the whole game, but to stand only until Cornell scored their first goal - at which point the Faithful were generally pretty glad to get to sit down. So while it's pretty frustrating that the cops would enforce their will so selectively and abusively, the "fighting for tradition" argument doesn't hold a lot of water with me. If you really want to start fighting for tradition, you'd better be willing to ask Section B to sit down after Cornell's first goal of the evening.[/q]
My argument wasn't "fighting for tradition" so much as it was "getting all of the fans to actively show their support at the games", although that seems to have different interpretations. Beeeej, if you want to reinvigorate the sitting down after the first goal tradition, though, be my guest.[/q]

Who said anything about your argument? I was responding to someone else who did say this was about fighting for tradition, and pointing out how short-term his view of tradition was.

I completely agree that it's a good thing to get all the fans to show their support actively at the games. I disagree that any one group of fans has the right to demand that this support must be shown in one specific way that makes the game difficult for others to enjoy. As has been said several times already, if sight-lines are being blocked, those blocking them should suck it up and sit down (except, as John said, for Section C's sight-lines. Screw 'em (us)).

Beeeej

Jim, it's not so much the use of the term "townies" to refer to the townies that I object to. It's the lumping of everyone who's not a student into a category in which not everyone fits.

I'm not a townie, I'm an alum. Many of the other people in Lynah who aren't students aren't townies; they're faculty members or staff at the University.

This isn't about town-gown relations. Lynah Rink is one place where there should be no divisiveness, this week's nonsense notwithstanding.

So, "One of the guys who," perhaps you should try "Everyone up," or "Stand up," or, as we did so effectively so many times before, just use a rising arm gesture (careful!) to convey the idea.

[Q]The begged question is: how was this first handled with the folks in G? Were notes placed on their seats explaining the situation and asking their cooperation, or something similar? Or did things begin with threats and intimidation.[/Q]

Well, this was the first night when section G really stood (a bit during the exhibition, but not that much). So they didn't have time to put notes on the seats. I guess we'll see tonight. However, as soon as the students in G really did start standing in good numbers, in typical University fashion, they didn't consult or ask or explain, they just threatened and kicked out. If someone in G or part of F wants to correct me, I'll yield, but it didn't look to me like there was too much conversation, just 'expulsion'.

I saw the first girl get booted (I think it was the first), and it was pretty easy to make out the general pattern of the conversation. The cop told her to sit, she asked why, he said something else, she asked why, he told her to leave. He would then escort the person out, come back, go up to a random the person at the front of the standing group, talk to the for maybe 5-10 seconds and then escort them out.

A friend I sit, err, stand with was ready to start an "@$$hole on a pwer trip" chant if it happene again. That's really what happened. This one cop decide it was his heavenly mission to kick out everyone who was standing (of course, that woulda taken all night) and did it without regards to the fact students are humans too. I think pulling out the pepper spray after 30 seconds shows that all too well.

So if it really does block people in H, well, it's a shame that G won't be able to stand, but the way we saw it unfold is just what led to a lot of anger. I wanted to explain why people had such angry reactions. Based on Section H's comments though (the poster, not the actual section ), hopefully that won't be the case.

-Fred

P.S. As Volonnino revenge dude said, I don't mean townies as an insult either. Just a cute, convinient word to describe local residents. A large %age of 'townies' work for Cornell and we know that.

P.P.S. Greg, First off, I hope you don't think the majority of the students there are facetimers. Facetimers are a small (albeit annoying) breed. It maybe be tempting to think of the people in G, those with the later tickets, as more likely to be facetimers. Most years you'd probably be right. But htis year there were so many people camping overnight, that hardcore fans ended up in F and G. My aforementioned friend in F was celebrating his 21st birthday on the Sat of the ticket line. He only went to the bars for an hour before leaving and showing up at the hockey line around 1 am. For showing up at 1 am he got F. I know someone else in F too who was in B last year - not a facetimer at all. This is actually the reason why F (and somewhat G) are standing and never really have before.

P.P.P.S (man I can't shut up today) Beeeej, I didn't know that standing the whole game was a relatively new tradition, but it's one I'd like to keep. It's also a better incarnation of that basketball-esque idea of until the first score.

Don't feel TOO bad about not knowing the tradition, DeltaOne - it's not THAT new. The way I remember it, we sat after the first goal during my freshman year (90-91), but we were standing the whole game by my senior year (93-94). Might have had something to do with a number of home shutouts during that horrible period. Ugh. So standing the whole game does go back almost 10 years - but that will never count as a tradition for folks whose memories go back 20....

John T. Whelan '91 wrote:

...and it would kill Lynah in exactly the way everyone feared.

Overstatement, I regret to say. Lynah was very much "alive" (in fact, more so, IMHO) in the days before students stood.

Most of us, at least in the top part of the seciton, are not "facetimers" as it was so put. I have been going to hockey games for 6 years, and have been in B the last two. It just so happened, that by the time I got to the line this year, I was down to G. Does this mean I have any much less of a right to stand than anyone else, especially since I block the view of no one,...I don't think so.

I sit on the aisle between Section C and D. The students standing on their seats block my view of the goal. They always have, but I keep my seats there because I enjoy (most of) the chants and enthusiasm of the student section. The students standing and cheering are there doing what I think they ought to do and I applaud their stamina and frequent creativity. (The students standing and jabbering and not watching the game are another story.)

I AM annoyed by the many people in both sections C and D that don't bother to show up for the game on time, and keep the rest of us from seeing the game while they work their ways into their seats. That's rude. With the faster timing of the faceoffs, there are shorter stoppages of play - just get to your seat before they start play, please. Come early and see the skate-around. Sing the national anthems. Stay between periods 2 and 3 and stand and sing the Alma Mater. At least, please stop jabbering while the rest of us sing.

My recollections of watching Lynah games as a student are very fond - we had some great teams, indeed. We were in the General Admission section (which included Section C), and having waited for up to four hours before the first faceoff, we were packed in and screaming when the teams came out for the skate-around. I don't advocate going back to GA seating now, but fans getting in the habit of arriving earlier for the games could enhance the experience for all of us.

Ken '71

As a season ticket holder in G, I felt I needed to say something about the situation that arose at last night's game. Someone asked if we were ever informed about what was going on or if the cops just started throwing people out, well we were never told anything. The cop began to man handle the fans, as I saw him grab girls and pull them up the aisle to eject them from the game. The pepper spray incident happened two rows in front of me and scared the hell out of me. The students never swore or were disrespectful to the cop, they simply asked for a reason. Apparently, this warranted pulling on the pepper spray and holding it an inch away from their eyes. The scary thing is that our University PD can get so riled up in 30 seconds that the only solution is to spray the students with pepper spray!
I also must say that I was very hurt by the comment of the students being just "facetimers". What I want to ask that person is how would they have felt if they were called that when they were at Lynah? We are the future alums who send out emails and posts to meet at games across the country to support the Big Red. The Athletic Department's new policy to get tickets has just facilitated getting only the most diehard fans to fill the rink, including Section G. I was told last night that G wasn't even suppose to be sold to students and that next year only sections A, B, D, E, and F will be availiable to students. Personally, I'd be very disappointed in the university if that is what ends up happening because then less than half the rink would be availiable for student season tickets. My solution would just to be to sell H to students also. The standing problem would be solved because even if H stood, Section I could still see. I'm sure in the end there will be some type of compromise, I just hope that it doesn't entail taking G away from students...

[Q]I was told last night that G wasn't even suppose to be sold to students and that next year only sections A, B, D, E, and F will be availiable to students. Personally, I'd be very disappointed in the university if that is what ends up happening because then less than half the rink would be availiable for student season tickets.[/Q]
That's already the case, since section C is a booster section (or whatever the proper term for that is).

[Q]My solution would just to be to sell H to students also.[/Q]

While that idea has some appeal to me as a student (even if I am graduating in May and thus will never have season tickets in H as a student), I doubt the current H ticketholders will want to give up their seats anytime soon, so I seriously doubt this will occur.

I stand in section B. Last night I was not impressed with the Faithful. I thought that the students in D, E, F, G, and H, all made a better showing than those in B. B was not full till midway through the second period. Also, some person/people in section D, E, F, G, or H threw something onto the ice, this also occurred in section B; this kind of behavior is intolerable. What the heck is wrong with people? Have some common sense. If you through anything other than newspaper, or fish most of the Faithful are going to get pissed. The faithful know that there is no place for this kind of behavior. More often than not if you through something when you aren't supposed to people will not refrain from chastising you, and or getting you thrown out of the game. For those of you that did not read that little contract you signed when you bought your season tickets, when you get expelled from a game, you get JA’ed. That goes on your transcript! Think about it. When you have to apply for jobs, at every interview for the rest of your life you have to explain why it happened. ‘I was a dumbass.’ I don't think this is a characteristic that future employers are looking for in a prospective employee. Just a few thoughts and advise; think before you act, if you know it is wrong, then don't do it, have some self-control, show up on time, show your respect to the rest of the faithful (most of them have been following Cornell hockey longer than you have), cheer like there is no tomorrow, and have a good time without diminishing the experience of other faithful and the Cornell Men’s Hockey Team.

As a local (I live 25 miles from Cornell) I was on way hoem from game and ran into an aquaintance who is an usher down in the G-H area... He said that the one kid(or 2 kids) he had thrown out were using profanity and right in his ear - so what did they expect ? (just a different point of view...)

I sit in N and love the crowd there, that appreciates the game and joins in positive cheers like "Lets go Red" and the usual loud one at beginning of 3rd period etc - but tends to refrain from obscenity and and vulgarism's. Many around me have been coming to games for 20 years and more! (i'm relatively new coming up on ten years soon) - But the enthusiam and noise of Lynah is a major attraction of watching hockey there - - Let's all support the team - Let's all be enthusiastic fans... but let's remember that the visiting fans and players are folks like us!

Just want to put in my .02 about townies, and whether if they stand up or not has anything to do with their committment to Cornell Hockey. I'm always relieved when some of the people who sit around me (Sec. K) make it down the stairs to their seats. Some of these people are really OLD. They've been dedicated fans for many years, but they could never stand up for a whole game, or even 3rd period (I wish they would). Many of them hosted hockey players in their homes when that was allowed by the NCAA. I bet Ken Dryden and Joe Nieuwendyk lived with Ithaca families. I'm a relatively new CU hockey fan, but I've been to Lake Placid for the last 3 years. Does that make me a bigger or better fan than someone who camped out for a ticket? Of course not, we're all fans.

I really agree with Adam though, that TRUE fans should be in their seats for face-off. Why are the student sections half empty for the start of the game? There are so few home games, how can people miss 20-30% of the action? BTW, I think Sec. G should be allowed to stand, just call that another student section. Sec. H will just have to deal with losing a corner view.

I sat in section G for two years (some how, as a grad student). Same stuff happens every year--there's always some conflict at the first game about sitting vs. standing, and there's always some confusion about whether it's a student section or not. I've never understood why there was confusion about it.

I think that the object from section B was one of my Snickers. If that continues you can be sure I'll not be allowed to give them to the Bear. Please police the section.

I don't have anything to add here; I just wanted to say "Go Gauchos!".

JTW, UCSB PhD '96

Jim, it was one of the Snickers that you have so nicely given to us. The self-policing will continue. If it happens again, you can all be assured the guilty party will be turned in as they were last night.

I had seats in the front row of section D until 1986 and there was NO standing from the beginning of games in the student section, so that should help to date this "tradition" of standing. I also think that standing the whole game must make it less dramatic than it used to be in a close game in the third period when the student section would rise and watch the END of the game while standing and screaming for the team.

I am also curious if anyone ever throws a strainer (sieve) after a goal, or cheap plastic glasses after the ref blows a call? These were things thrown that were tolerated pretty well once upon a time.

[q]Beeeej, I didn't know that standing the whole game was a relatively new tradition, but it's one I'd like to keep. It's also a better incarnation of that basketball-esque idea of until the first score.[/q]

Half of my recollection of this shift in the tradition was very much like Robb's - that there had been an inordinate number of home shutouts over the course of a couple of dismal seasons. But a quick check of the records shows only one season, 1992-93, where we had any home shutouts at all during Robb's undergrad years at Cornell, and there were only two of them - 0-7 to Providence and 0-3 to Clarkson. (*)

The other half, and what sticks in my mind more thoroughly, is the letter I wrote to the Daily Sun as one of the skating Bears at the time in 1992. I was trying to outline some of the major traditions for newer Faithful, and they altered something I'd written along the lines of "stand until Cornell has scored their first goal" to "stand until Cornell has scored three goals."

Needless to say they made that change without my permission, knowing that since I'd asked to have it published "anonymously" as the Bear, I would have no way of disputing their version. I no longer spend much time dwelling on how asinine and unprofessional that was, but it's interesting to think that my letter and the Sun's idiocy contributed to a tradition that's still causing rifts.

Beeeej

(*) I do however remember that the Fish'n'Fowl tradition used to be to throw fish at Hahvahd when Cornell scored their first goal of that game, as well - and that changed after Hahvahd spanked us 5-0 at home in 1989-90.

If I may be so bold...

I might be the person initially responsible for the students standing up.

My senior year (1988-89), I posted a personal in the Cornell Daily Sun before the Harvard game, something like:

"Attention Lynah Faithful: No Notre Dame student has sat down during a Notre Dame home football game in years. STAND UP THE ENTIRE HARVARD GAME!!"

(Can anyone on campus check the Daily Sun archives?)

I recall that the Faithful did stand through that game, the first time that happened during my Cornell years. There was standing in subsequent games (I remember some students complaining about it during the games), but I don't recall if it became "official" that year like it is now.

-Nate Huang '89

The Hahvahd game at home was in February that season, and by that point I'd already seen the student Faithful standing until the first goal several times since my first game in Nov. '87. Whether that's the first time we stood the entire game, I couldn't tell you - though I will say that I don't specifically recall having stood the entire game until at least a year or two later.

Beeeej

lemme say a few things here b4 i sleep. some of this may be a bit late but...
i sat the whole game except at a few points when i got excited of course (besides goals) b/c i was in O. now it didnt detract from my lynah experience at all...
i agree that we dont want the "sit ur booty down" requests to circle around the rink so that the only people standing are the players but i doubt that would happen anyway.
i think that courtesy is the way to go. if i are in someone's way and they have anywhere else to go, i sit down. i would want it done for me. now of course if i are sitting up at placid and there are 500 empty seats and 2 people behind me ask me to sit, i would do what i did and ask them to move instead of having 20 people sit. but that is not the case in lynah. sitting would not detract from my experience more than standing would from the experience of the guy behind me - therefore i sit.
also, if someone sprayed me with pepper spray for standing at a hockey game i think i would be pretty POed. I think that the athetic department and the cops would be in a bit of trouble over that one...some people need to know how far they should go so that they do not go as far as they can go.
now about calling the people opposite the students townies...i dont know, i what your saying, mark, but it is all the same to me. i have been called worse things that i didnt think applied to me i stood when the townies were asked tonight it was a nice departure from sitting, though after a week of surgery it was actually quite welcome.
it was great to see a regular season home game this weekend. i just wish that the radio station would either bump up their signal to get through this stinkin hill in vestal or that cornell would give me free radio. wow, how long has radio been free? oh well. good night, everyone