Hobey Hat Trick

Elliott (UW), Carle (DU), and Collins (BC) were the top three vote getters this year.

Carle is probably the favorite, but given that the voting is completed after regionals where Carle was a notable absentee, Elliott may steal it.

It'd be a shame if Elliott won despite his amazing weekend. He missed time with an injury and was decidedly sub-par for a few weeks after coming back. If he's a more worthy goalie than Lenny or McKee who played complete (or near complete) seasons and dominated statistically, it probably means it take a 50 goal season (or something similarly dramatic) from an ECAC forward to bring the award back to the ECAC.

Chris '03
Elliott (UW), Carle (DU), and Collins (BC) were the top three vote getters this year.

Carle is probably the favorite, but given that the voting is completed after regionals where Carle was a notable absentee, Elliott may steal it.

Are you sure about that? I thought the Hobey voting was done before the NCAAs began.

jtwcornell91

Chris '03
Elliott (UW), Carle (DU), and Collins (BC) were the top three vote getters this year.

Carle is probably the favorite, but given that the voting is completed after regionals where Carle was a notable absentee, Elliott may steal it.

Are you sure about that? I thought the Hobey voting was done before the NCAAs began.

Form the Hobey site:
[Q]The award's winner will be determined from among the finalists by the Hobey Baker Selection Committee, a group of coaches, scouts, media and a representative from USA Hockey. Fans also contribute to the final decision through Vote for Hobey's Final Voting phase, which will run through Monday, March 27.[/Q]by finalists, they are referring to the final 10, but it looks like voting closed Monday, unless that's just the fan vote only, as the language is not crystal clear.

Considering the voting is done after the regionals, one has to think that Elliott is a lock to get it. He was the best college hockey player I saw this year and I saw both Collins and Carle a few a times each.

It would still be a shame considering Elliott's #'s pale in comparison to McKee's last year, you would have to question why McKee wasn't good enough but Elliott is.

Omie
It would still be a shame considering Elliott's #'s pale in comparison to McKee's last year, you would have to question why McKee wasn't good enough but Elliott is.

Because McKee's challengers were stronger than Elliott's?

I'm amazed that Chris Collins was chosen over Ryan Potulny who scored 38 goals ( the last time somebody scored 38 goals was i believe in 1997 by Todd White).

bigred06
I'm amazed that Chris Collins was chosen over Ryan Potulny who scored 38 goals ( the last time somebody scored 38 goals was i believe in 1997 by Todd White).

And Todd didn't win it either.

bigred06
I'm amazed that Chris Collins was chosen over Ryan Potulny who scored 38 goals ( the last time somebody scored 38 goals was i believe in 1997 by Todd White).

I think Collins being in the top three is a function of the east/west divide. The west had more finalists (7 to 3), leaving the eastern voters to rally around Collins (and Moore and Travelyan to a lesser degree). The western vote was probably more split among quality candidates.

bigred06
I'm amazed that Chris Collins was chosen over Ryan Potulny who scored 38 goals ( the last time somebody scored 38 goals was i believe in 1997 by Todd White).

Collins is at 1.52 PPG to Potulny's 1.54,and BC only averaged 3.48 goals per game to Minnesota's 4.12, so you can say that Collins did it with less offensive support. In addition, Collins had 5 SHG's, which I think deserve extra credit, to none for Potulny. I think a pretty good case can be made for Collins.

bigred06
( the last time somebody scored 38 goals was i believe in 1997 by Todd White).

Ho-bey Cherry-picker
Clap-clap clap-clap-clap

jmh30

bigred06
( the last time somebody scored 38 goals was i believe in 1997 by Todd White).

Ho-bey Cherry-picker
Clap-clap clap-clap-clap

Wait for it... wait for it...

Al DeFlorio

bigred06
I'm amazed that Chris Collins was chosen over Ryan Potulny who scored 38 goals ( the last time somebody scored 38 goals was i believe in 1997 by Todd White).

And Todd didn't win it either.

And he didn't deserve to, either.

bigred06
I'm amazed that Chris Collins was chosen over Ryan Potulny who scored 38 goals ( the last time somebody scored 38 goals was i believe in 1997 by Todd White).

You're right. Peter Sejna had 36 in '03 for CC and Mark Hartigan had 37 in 2002. Sejna won in '03 and Hartigan was a Hobey finalist in '02. But I'm not going to quibble with leaving a Goofer out of the mix.

If Elliott wins, it is also because the WCHA is so much more offensively orientated than the ECAC. Without getting into any debate about the quality of the two conferences, there's no question that WCHA is more offensive. So a 1.70 GAA from a WCHA goalie could be considered equal or better than the numbers McKee put up last year. I don't think they quite cover the difference, but given that Wisconsin is only a good (not great) scoring team, I wouldn't mind seeing Elliott get the award.

Of course, there's the debate on whether he is good, or it is simply defense. After our game with Wisconsin, I think the defense certainly helps, but Elliott's one hell of a goalie as well.

Dafatone
If Elliott wins, it is also because the WCHA is so much more offensively orientated than the ECAC. Without getting into any debate about the quality of the two conferences, there's no question that WCHA is more offensive. So a 1.70 GAA from a WCHA goalie could be considered equal or better than the numbers McKee put up last year. I don't think they quite cover the difference, but given that Wisconsin is only a good (not great) scoring team, I wouldn't mind seeing Elliott get the award.

Of course, there's the debate on whether he is good, or it is simply defense. After our game with Wisconsin, I think the defense certainly helps, but Elliott's one hell of a goalie as well.

I don't remember if it was on USCHO forum or the Wisconsin forum but someone said that the Dryden era teams would finish sixth in the WCHA today. Usually they reserve the middle of the WCHA for the top ECACHL or Hockey East teams of today.

nyc94
I don't remember if it was on USCHO forum or the Wisconsin forum but someone said that the Dryden era teams would finish sixth in the WCHA today. Usually they reserve the middle of the WCHA for the top ECACHL or Hockey East teams of today.

I don't even understand the point of those debates. If the Dryden era Cornell teams would finish sixth in the WCHA today, wouldn't the Dryden era Wisconsin teams finish eighth or tenth?!

Beeeej

nyc94
I don't remember if it was on USCHO forum or the Wisconsin forum but someone said that the Dryden era teams would finish sixth in the WCHA today. Usually they reserve the middle of the WCHA for the top ECACHL or Hockey East teams of today.

How is this helpful?

Kyle

krose
How is this helpful?

Kyle

It's not. But usually we poke fun at how smug and superior the WCHA fans are e.g. how they will and did "skate circles around" the eastern competition. I just thought this took it to another level.

nyc94
It's not. But usually we poke fun at how smug and superior the WCHA fans are e.g. how they will and did "skate circles around" the eastern competition. I just thought this took it to another level.

I guess my opinion on this particular topic is that today's teams are so well conditioned, coached, and scientific about winning that the Dryden-era teams would probably get hammered by Bemidji State. I suspect the level of play of college teams has gone up pretty much across the board over the past 40 years.

Kyle

krose

nyc94
It's not. But usually we poke fun at how smug and superior the WCHA fans are e.g. how they will and did "skate circles around" the eastern competition. I just thought this took it to another level.

I guess my opinion on this particular topic is that today's teams are so well conditioned, coached, and scientific about winning that the Dryden-era teams would probably get hammered by Bemidji State. I suspect the level of play of college teams has gone up pretty much across the board over the past 40 years.

Kyle

I agree, but if those guys were born in the 80's, my guess is that they would be just as conditioned as the modern players and would win the national championship.

ugarte

krose

nyc94
It's not. But usually we poke fun at how smug and superior the WCHA fans are e.g. how they will and did "skate circles around" the eastern competition. I just thought this took it to another level.

I guess my opinion on this particular topic is that today's teams are so well conditioned, coached, and scientific about winning that the Dryden-era teams would probably get hammered by Bemidji State. I suspect the level of play of college teams has gone up pretty much across the board over the past 40 years.

Kyle

I agree, but if those guys were born in the 80's, my guess is that they would be just as conditioned as the modern players and would win the national championship.

...and likewise if you took a team from today and took away all of their modern conditioning equipment and gear, etc. for a year they might not do very well playing 60's era teams. There is certainly more talent in the NCAAs today than there was in the 60's as evidenced by the growth of the sport. But it only makes sense to judge teams in the context of their times.

KeithK
But it only makes sense to judge teams in the context of their times.

I agree. The gist of my post was simply that this debate is pointless. IMO, of course.

Kyle

nyc94
I don't remember if it was on USCHO forum or the Wisconsin forum but someone said that the Dryden era teams would finish sixth in the WCHA today.

They *would* all be in their sixties...

Trotsky

nyc94
I don't remember if it was on USCHO forum or the Wisconsin forum but someone said that the Dryden era teams would finish sixth in the WCHA today.

They *would* all be in their sixties...

Ken's only 58.

RatushnyFan

Al DeFlorio

bigred06
I'm amazed that Chris Collins was chosen over Ryan Potulny who scored 38 goals ( the last time somebody scored 38 goals was i believe in 1997 by Todd White).

And Todd didn't win it either.

And he didn't deserve to, either.

That's your opinion and obviously one held by the largest number of the voters. But many (I don't recall if he finished 2nd or 3rd to Morrison in the voting) believed he was deserving, myself included, surprise, surprise.

As for saying that White was a cherry picker, ugarte, your either trolling for reaction on your own board or you're crazy.

White was a superb two way player and anything but a cherry picker.

White was a great player.

Every big scorer has a touch of cherry-picker in him. I don't recall there being a rule that a cherry-picked goal only counts 3/5th due to poor form.

Rich S

RatushnyFan

Al DeFlorio

bigred06
I'm amazed that Chris Collins was chosen over Ryan Potulny who scored 38 goals ( the last time somebody scored 38 goals was i believe in 1997 by Todd White).

And Todd didn't win it either.

And he didn't deserve to, either.

As for saying that White was a cherry picker, ugarte, your either trolling for reaction on your own board or you're crazy.

White was a superb two way player and anything but a cherry picker.

And there it is. Of course, it wasn't me that called him a cherry picker. All I did was predict this post from Rich S.

Next prediction: The sun will rise tomorrow. Trust me. I'm good at this.

Trotsky
Every big scorer has a touch of cherry-picker in him. I don't recall there being a rule that a cherry-picked goal only counts 3/5th due to poor form.

Certainly not for White.

Why not?

It is debatable whether he deserved it,I think he was a better two way player than Morrison and his numbers are right there with everyone ---here are the runners up that year with goals and assists Chris Drury 25/29, Mike Crowley defense, Jason Blake 28/41, Mike Harder 22/33, Randy Robitaille 33/34 , Martin St. Louis 36/24, Brian Swanson 25/41, Todd White 38/36, John Madden 26/37 — Brendan Morrison 31/57 the winner.

It would have been nice for the ECACHL. Then again if "ifs" were fifths we'd all be drunk at Christmas.

Drew
Why not?

It is debatable whether he deserved it,I think he was a better two way player than Morrison and his numbers are right there with everyone ---here are the runners up that year with goals and assists Chris Drury 25/29, Mike Crowley defense, Jason Blake 28/41, Mike Harder 22/33, Randy Robitaille 33/34 , Martin St. Louis 36/24, Brian Swanson 25/41, Todd White 38/36, John Madden 26/37 — Brendan Morrison 31/57 the winner.

It would have been nice for the ECACHL. Then again if "ifs" were fifths we'd all be drunk at Christmas.

If "if"s were "fifth"s you'd get an infinite recursion, f(f(f(f(f(f(f(f(f(f(f(f(f(f(f(f(...)ths)ths)ths)ths)ths)ths)ths)ths)ths)ths)ths)ths)ths)ths)ths)ths.

ugarte

Rich S

RatushnyFan

Al DeFlorio

bigred06
I'm amazed that Chris Collins was chosen over Ryan Potulny who scored 38 goals ( the last time somebody scored 38 goals was i believe in 1997 by Todd White).

And Todd didn't win it either.

And he didn't deserve to, either.

As for saying that White was a cherry picker, ugarte, your either trolling for reaction on your own board or you're crazy.

White was a superb two way player and anything but a cherry picker.

And there it is. Of course, it wasn't me that called him a cherry picker. All I did was predict this post from Rich S.

Next prediction: The sun will rise tomorrow. Trust me. I'm good at this.

well whoopdie-damn-do...lol. I guess all you guys start to sound alike and there's so many of you, I got ya confused. I'm so sorry.

Is that a big deal that you predicted my response? And why not? Calling White a "cherry picker" is easily one of the most inane comments I've ever read on this board. Too ridiculous to not call him on.

If you'd seen Todd play even once in college, you'd know better. But then I guess any opponent, even a two time AA, is fair game for you.

Glad to hear you can predict so expertly. You have a career in Vegas.

Rich S
I guess all you guys start to sound alike and there's so many of you, I got ya confused. I'm so sorry.

Oh sure...we all sound alike, next we all look alike...come on, Rich...

depends on how you define "cherry-picker." The most common conotation is that the a guy is a "goal-hanger." Certainly not true of White.

He was a complete player who played hard in all three zones and has continued to do so as a pro. He's a classic case of a small guy (no taller than 5 ft 8" who plays "big."

Now if you want to say a "cherry-picker" is a guy who scores "goal-scorer's goals", fine. Then that's a guy who has a nose for the puck and has good hands around the net. That was Todd too.

Rich S
well whoopdie-damn-do...lol. I guess all you guys start to sound alike and there's so many of you, I got ya confused. I'm so sorry.

If you want to go for soundalikes, why not try "every single RichS post." Sure, they all come from one person but they are so shockingly similar it is hard to believe that it is a person and not a macro.

[q]Is that a big deal that you predicted my response? And why not? Calling White a "cherry picker" is easily one of the most inane comments I've ever read on this board. Too ridiculous to not call him on.[/q]Except that (1) it was obviously a joke designed to get your goat and (2) I knew you wouldn't get that, So that's what I was predicting. As I said, sure as the sunrise.

[q]If you'd seen Todd play even once in college, you'd know better. But then I guess any opponent, even a two time AA, is fair game for you.[/q]Saw him play plenty. He was awesome. The only time I don't root for his success in the NHL is when he is playing the Red Wings or I think of you. Glad to see that he is doing well in Minnesota.

Shockingly similar to you? That just shows how close-minded you're being.

Yeah I got the poor attempt at a joke. The idea that you'd "design it" to "get my goat" is just pathetic. It was so poor that I called it "inane." Or didn't you get that?

You don't root for White when you think of me? lol....

I'll pass that on to Todd; I'm sure he'll get a laugh at your expense.

Dafatone
If Elliott wins, it is also because the WCHA is so much more offensively orientated than the ECAC. Without getting into any debate about the quality of the two conferences, there's no question that WCHA is more offensive.

I agree that the WCHA is more offensive....at least their fans are

Let's take a look at our most recent games against the WCHA and the number of goals scored against us (disclaimer: I am doing this from memory)

Minny 2 in OT
UMD 1 in OT
CC 2
Whizconsin 1 in 3 OT

That probably works out roughly to a whopping 1.5 GAA. Not really that overwhelming. So is the WCHA really that much more offensive against a real defense?

Roy 82
Minny 2 in OT
UMD 1 in OT
CC 2
Whizconsin 1 in 3 OT

That probably works out roughly to a whopping 1.5 GAA. Not really that overwhelming. So is the WCHA really that much more offensive against a real defense?

Good point. Also, Mankato 2 (I think).

DeltaOne81

Roy 82
Minny 2 in OT
UMD 1 in OT
CC 2
Whizconsin 1 in 3 OT

That probably works out roughly to a whopping 1.5 GAA. Not really that overwhelming. So is the WCHA really that much more offensive against a real defense?

Good point. Also, Mankato 2 (I think).

In fairness to the western teams, we did play exceptionally well defensively in those games. Better than our average defensive performance in conference play, especially this year.

Roy 82

Dafatone
If Elliott wins, it is also because the WCHA is so much more offensively orientated than the ECAC. Without getting into any debate about the quality of the two conferences, there's no question that WCHA is more offensive.

I agree that the WCHA is more offensive....at least their fans are

Let's take a look at our most recent games against the WCHA and the number of goals scored against us (disclaimer: I am doing this from memory)

Minny 2 in OT
UMD 1 in OT
CC 2
Whizconsin 1 in 3 OT

That probably works out roughly to a whopping 1.5 GAA. Not really that overwhelming. So is the WCHA really that much more offensive against a real defense?

Just imagine how good McKee's stats would be if he played in the WZHA!

ebilmes

DeltaOne81

Roy 82
Minny 2 in OT
UMD 1 in OT
CC 2
Whizconsin 1 in 3 OT

That probably works out roughly to a whopping 1.5 GAA. Not really that overwhelming. So is the WCHA really that much more offensive against a real defense?

Good point. Also, Mankato 2 (I think).

In fairness to the western teams, we did play exceptionally well defensively in those games. Better than our average defensive performance in conference play, especially this year.

You can't take these isolated stats too far. But having watched a few WCHA games this year I am not at all impressed with the defensive play in that conference. The Minnesota-St. Cloud semifinal almost looked like a women's game there was so little body contact.

Carle wins it.

Princeton's Eric Leroux Named 2006 Hockey Humanitarian

Chris 02
Carle wins it.

Voters must have been impressed with his performance in the NCAA Tournament