Cornell-Wisconsin postgame thread (post-season thread?) NCAA quarterfinals 2006

Beeeej
after getting as far as we did, I'd be thinking that next year is looking really, really good.

Beeeej

I think the question (as it always is), is how much will we really miss the seniors. Obviously we will miss Moulson, but how much? Consider the majority of his production was on the power play, can't much of that be made up for by getting our PP to figure out how to connect down low?

And sure, we'll miss the Abbotts and Pegararo and Gleed, but they don't seem irreplaceable, if someone else can just step up into those rolls. And we all appreciate Louis efforts, but I think even he would admit that its not going to have a major impact on next years teams.


Will the rising-seniors step up in the way the '05 seniors did, esp a role player like Carefoot or Glover? Will O'Byrne (if he stays) and/or Bitz become a true force to be reckoned with? Can McCutcheon take yet another leap forward? And probably most importantly, can McKee (if he stays) pick up anywhere near where he left off, or will he pick up more like he picked up this year?

Will Sasha (if he stays) show that buried talent more consistently?

How quick will the new freshman produce? Are they half what they're hyped to be? Will they play in the system or will Schafer have trouble getting the team to gel with the kind of talent he has?


Not that listings these questions even begins to provide an answer.

No disrespect to Fred, but What Rich Said. Post of the year.

Beeeej

Beeeej

jkahn
A guy from Colorado Springs whose daughter goes to Cornell came over and sat with us when we were down 0-2 of Friday, right before Topher's goal. He commented that he decided to root for Cornell (though he goes to the CC home games) as he could see our team just plays like we want it more. That's all you can ask.

Was his name also Jeff? If so I think I met him at one of the Clarkson QF games a few weeks ago. Very nice guy, spoke very highly of Cornell's program.

Beeeej

We didn't exchange names but it's probably him, as he said he was at the 2nd Clarkson game. He was wearing a CC sweatshirt and Cornell hat when he came over, but took off the CC sweatshirt in the 3rd. He came back and sat with us on Sunday, this time wearing a Cornell sweatshirt.

We are losing two of our best faceoff guys in Abbott and Pegararo. We'll need a couple of guys to step up in that role.

The biggest question about next year is early departures. If everyone stays then we look really good right now (assuming the incoming class is all it has been made out to be). If everyone in question leaves (at least McKee, O'Byrne, Pokulok) then we're seem pretty questionable.

This is in no way conclusive and it should never be sworn by, but just to put some minds at ease (maybe)... it is my understanding that McKee will probably be back next year, but Pokulok is much more a question mark. If you have to worry about anybody leaving, it's him.

Having said that, whoever brought up the upcoming vacuum at center has it right as far as I'm concerned. Going to need huge strides from Bitz and Kennedy on faceoffs, I would hope Topher Scott would be switched back to center as well.

Short game reports up on my blog: [gregberge.blogspot.com]

It was about the best way for the seniors to go out, short of the trophy.

My biggest concern next year is losing the defense that some of our senior forwards, especially Chris Abbott and Pegs, provide. It'll be important to see if players like Mugford and Sawada can step up and fill this void, and how much defense we have in the forwards of the incoming class.

I'm also worried about defensemen, but if all we lose is Gleed, we should be alright, though by the end of this year he was consistently terrific.

It seems silly to me (and kinda ludicrous) that guys like O'Byrne and Pokoluk are considering leaving early when truly great players like Bâby and Murray stayed through their senior years.
If our group stays together and the new recruits live up to expectations, I believe we will be an improved team from this year's uneven (yet in the end impressive) campaign.

DeltaOne81
And sure, we'll miss the Abbotts and Pegararo and Gleed, but they don't seem irreplaceable, if someone else can just step up into those rolls.

The ECAC Final showed us how badly we might miss Chris, if there is nobody to take that role.

The last time I remember such a huge influx of talent at forward was Fall 98, when we brought in Ladouceur, Kozier, Wieckowski, Francis. Prior to that was Fall 93, with Auger, Papp, Bergin, Weber, and Cooney (a giant 9-man class that also included the Wilson non-brothers, Kendall, and Zubkus.

Each of those classes, weirdly enough, produced a net increase in goal scoring in their freshman years: [www.tbrw.info]

Dafatone
My biggest concern next year is losing the defense that some of our senior forwards, especially Chris Abbott and Pegs, provide. It'll be important to see if players like Mugford and Sawada can step up and fill this void, and how much defense we have in the forwards of the incoming class.

I'm not really that concerned about this. Schafer has done a good job getting players to play good two way hockey. I fully expect the younger forwards to be able to step into these roles as needed.

Tub(a)

nyc94

ithacat

Hayek
Anyone know the link to where the eBadger forum is?

Be warned: there are some less than flattering comments made regarding Cornell fans. For the most part respect leads to respect. Remember, every board has its (lordy, let that not be me...)

[mb28.scout.com]

I kind of agree with them that "red line, idiot" isn't as meaningful if the player intentionally ices the puck - unless they could have easily crossed the line.

How often is an icing a mistake worth calling someone an idiot for? Really. 99% of the time they know they are icing and they are doing it for strategic reasons.

In fact, this was one of the differences in the Wisconsin/Cornell game. Wisconsin was winning faceoffs so with any pressure in their zone they just whipped the puck down the ice to get a fresh set of legs and a second chance in their zone. Cornell tried to carry or pass it out and the result was a huge tip towards Wisconsin in offensive zone possession.

The majority of icings come as a result of missed passes and stupid dump-ins. The red line idiot cheer is just as stupid as telling a goalie it's all his fault and sieve, etc. when he gets scored on when his players leave him out to dry.

calgARI '07
The majority of icings come as a result of missed passes and stupid dump-ins. The red line idiot cheer is just as stupid as telling a goalie it's all his fault and sieve, etc. when he gets scored on when his players leave him out to dry.

Ari's gotcha there. An icing is more likely to be a mistake than a goal is to be all the goalie's fault.

Perhaps more importantly, its the first original cheer we've had in quite a while, and doesn't involve the word 'suck'. It may not be perfect, but I applaud the move. How 'bout some more?

DeltaOne81

calgARI '07
The majority of icings come as a result of missed passes and stupid dump-ins. The red line idiot cheer is just as stupid as telling a goalie it's all his fault and sieve, etc. when he gets scored on when his players leave him out to dry.

Ari's gotcha there. An icing is more likely to be a mistake than a goal is to be all the goalie's fault.

Perhaps more importantly, its the first original cheer we've had in quite a while, and doesn't involve the word 'suck'. It may not be perfect, but I applaud the move. How 'bout some more?

There is the occassional missed pass, but that isn't that equally the fault of the player ahead of the red line? A large amount of icings are intentional, and many that "Red Line, Idiot" was used on in the Wisconsin game were perfectly understandable.

I agree with coming up with new cheers, but it's also important to recognize when some don't work. I guess it makes sense to say "Red Line, Idiot" once (not 4 or 5 times in a row) for the 1 or 2 times in a game where it is a mistake, but certainly not to repeat it ad nauseum for obviously intentional icings.

I liked "W Icing S C O N S Icing N." Not that it was yelled, or anything, but it amused me

THANK YOU!!! Finally some support for the retirement of the "Red Line, Idiot" cheer. What was said above I also agree with. Ari has a point with the "Sieve" and "It's all your fault" but the bottom line is that those cheers work. The icing one does not. I would settle for 1-2 times but not EVERY single icing call. That is ridiculous and makes us look like we have nothing else to cheer about. I commend you (Ari) or whoever came up with the cheer, but we let the faithful decide during the games and the response was not very enthusiastic. Let's come up with some new ones, and not forget LGR either.

*It should be noted that "Kill Red, Kill" was working pretty well by the end of the season. I'd like to see that return next year.

I don't think there's anything stupid* about rubbing a goal in the opoosing goalies face. It makes sense* because a goal is a big deal. Icing is much less so.

* Well, insofar as any of this is sensible.

RichH

sockralex

RichH
Thanks for that link, since someone over there has put up a video clip of the SportsCenter coverage.

I can't find it. Granted I haven't searched through it very thoroughly. Can you please post the sports center clip link?

[mywebspace.wisc.edu]

It's also been posted on the USCHO forum. Who knows if this guy has a bandwidth limit. It's about 9.5 Mb.

Doesn't seem to be at the Wisconsin URL anymore; any idea where else it might be found?

Beeeej

canuck89
THANK YOU!!! Finally some support for the retirement of the "Red Line, Idiot" cheer. What was said above I also agree with. Ari has a point with the "Sieve" and "It's all your fault" but the bottom line is that those cheers work. The icing one does not. I would settle for 1-2 times but not EVERY single icing call. That is ridiculous and makes us look like we have nothing else to cheer about. I commend you (Ari) or whoever came up with the cheer, but we let the faithful decide during the games and the response was not very enthusiastic. Let's come up with some new ones, and not forget LGR either.

*It should be noted that "Kill Red, Kill" was working pretty well by the end of the season. I'd like to see that return next year.

I personally agree with you about the "Red Line, Idiot" cheer, but I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "worked" or "didn't work." I have to figure that the only objective measure for whether a cheer works is if people cheer it, and by that standard, it would seem that "Red Line, Idiot" works.

(On the other hand, I like the slow "Sieve" cheer we were doing in Section A during the Dartmouth and Harvard games, but I'm not sure I'd say enough people were doing it to say it worked.)

jmh30

canuck89
THANK YOU!!! Finally some support for the retirement of the "Red Line, Idiot" cheer. What was said above I also agree with. Ari has a point with the "Sieve" and "It's all your fault" but the bottom line is that those cheers work. The icing one does not. I would settle for 1-2 times but not EVERY single icing call. That is ridiculous and makes us look like we have nothing else to cheer about. I commend you (Ari) or whoever came up with the cheer, but we let the faithful decide during the games and the response was not very enthusiastic. Let's come up with some new ones, and not forget LGR either.

*It should be noted that "Kill Red, Kill" was working pretty well by the end of the season. I'd like to see that return next year.

I personally agree with you about the "Red Line, Idiot" cheer, but I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "worked" or "didn't work." I have to figure that the only objective measure for whether a cheer works is if people cheer it, and by that standard, it would seem that "Red Line, Idiot" works.

(On the other hand, I like the slow "Sieve" cheer we were doing in Section A during the Dartmouth and Harvard games, but I'm not sure I'd say enough people were doing it to say it worked.)

Personally I give the slow "sieve" from that particular weekend a big thumbs down in terms of execution. I think it should be said differently. "SIEVE!" loudly and punctuated(ly), two-beat pause, "SIEVE!" two-beat pause again, etc. Not that odd drawling thing that I remember hearing. I guess the long drawling thing might be more irritating to a goaltender, but it also sounds very... I don't know... NHL-fans-ish.

Beeeej

RichH

sockralex

RichH
Thanks for that link, since someone over there has put up a video clip of the SportsCenter coverage.

I can't find it. Granted I haven't searched through it very thoroughly. Can you please post the sports center clip link?

[mywebspace.wisc.edu]

It's also been posted on the USCHO forum. Who knows if this guy has a bandwidth limit. It's about 9.5 Mb.

Doesn't seem to be at the Wisconsin URL anymore; any idea where else it might be found?

Beeeej

Maybe somewhere off-shore with less respect for copyright laws?

Some quick (and late) thoughts on my weekend in Green Bay. It is a very good thing that this is a written account and not a verbal one, I sound like a sick frog My voice is still hoarse from cheering this weekend.

1) I was very glad I went! We were a small contingent but tried really hard to be heard above the badger fans. It was also really nice to put faces to ELF log-in names. I don't think I could have handled watching the OT alone in a bar again. I did that last year and it wasn't any fun (and that was only ~ 5 min of 1 OT period). It is much better to celebrate and commisserate with others who care as much as you do.

2) Our team played fantastic!! It was great to watch them comeback against CC, you could see them gaining control of the game and could sense that if they could just get a goal, then they take the game.

3) The Wisconsin game was one for the ages. If by chance anyone hears of it being broadcast on ESPN Classic (or other outlets) please let me know. I would love to re-watch that game (and the CC one too). Our team play so well and so hard. Not much more I can add to what has already been posted, other than I consider myself very lucky to have witness such a great game live.

4) We should be very proud in what our team accomplished this year. Yes, there were several games when we wondered "Who is that team wearing the Cornell jerseys?". However, they seemed to have more than the usual bumps and bruises that hockey players get each season. Given that the last weekend of the regular season we had 2 forwards taking regular shifts on defense, and we struggled to eke out a 2-1 win v. Union, I know I didn't expect them to take #1 Wisconsin to 3OT to decide a Frozen Four berth. It is amazing how everyone on the team fought through the injuries to have the playoff run that they did this season.

5) The Wisconsin fans I met were really nice and congratulated several of us for our dedication to our team in making the trip out there.

6) Finally, an important note to anyone going to Milwaukee for the Frozen Four: get any beverages you may need to have in your hotel room early. At least in Green Bay and in Appleton, you could not buy beer from the local mini-mart after 9 pm. Apparently each county can set their own hours for alcohol sales, and I do not know what the hours are in Milwaukee's county.

ESPNU is showing replays of many of last weekend's games in the next few days. I haven't specifically checked if or when the midwest final is being shown.

Al DeFlorio
ESPNU is showing replays of many of last weekend's games in the next few days. I haven't specifically checked if or when the midwest final is being shown.

9 AM today (i.e. in 20 minutes), and maybe again later.

Section A Banshee
Personally I give the slow "sieve" from that particular weekend a big thumbs down in terms of execution. I think it should be said differently. "SIEVE!" loudly and punctuated(ly), two-beat pause, "SIEVE!" two-beat pause again, etc. Not that odd drawling thing that I remember hearing. I guess the long drawling thing might be more irritating to a goaltender, but it also sounds very... I don't know... NHL-fans-ish.

Well, there's always room for modification and improvement.

DeltaOne81

Al DeFlorio
ESPNU is showing replays of many of last weekend's games in the next few days. I haven't specifically checked if or when the midwest final is being shown.

9 AM today (i.e. in 20 minutes), and maybe again later.

The whole thing or a truncated version?

My criterion for worked was a rather large percentage of students cheering. The "Red line, idiot" cheer seemed to have ~50 people max. cheering at this season's end. On the other hand, "Kill Red, kill" seemed to have ~300+ people.

Note: I am obviously estimating with the fact that each section seats around 300 people. I thought between A and B about 300 had cheered "kill, red, kill" versus a much smaller number for the other cheer.

canuck89
It should be noted that "Kill Red, Kill" was working pretty well by the end of the season. I'd like to see that return next year.

Yep. When I first heard people trying to get that started I thought 1) deliberately trying to seed a cheer like that is dumb and won't work and 2) it sounds like it will be stupid anyway. But once a critical mass started using it, it did sound good.

I'd actually like to hear the "Let's Go Red!" cheer that follows an opponent's goal delayed until the ensuing faceoff. The way it is done now just ups the volume of the opponent's crowd's celebration. At Lynah, that isn't an issue, but in Albany it seemed to be self-defeating.

Or maybe it just got old after 6 times against Harvard.

Trotsky
I'd actually like to hear the "Let's Go Red!" cheer that follows an opponent's goal delayed until the ensuing faceoff. The way it is done now just ups the volume of the opponent's crowd's celebration. At Lynah, that isn't an issue, but in Albany it seemed to be self-defeating.

Or maybe it just got old after 6 times against Harvard.

I think that's kinda done anyway at away rinks. Certainly at Green Bay we knew we couldn't outshout 7900 Badger fans, so we had to wait until they died down to do anything. Granted, it was usually after some random play that the Badger fans decided to become hugely noisy, but the point still applies.

Liz '05

Trotsky
I'd actually like to hear the "Let's Go Red!" cheer that follows an opponent's goal delayed until the ensuing faceoff. The way it is done now just ups the volume of the opponent's crowd's celebration. At Lynah, that isn't an issue, but in Albany it seemed to be self-defeating.

Or maybe it just got old after 6 times against Harvard.

I think that's kinda done anyway at away rinks. Certainly at Green Bay we knew we couldn't outshout 7900 Badger fans, so we had to wait until they died down to do anything. Granted, it was usually after some random play that the Badger fans decided to become hugely noisy, but the point still applies.

Woohoo we've got a faceoff after a TV timeout, lets get as loud as possible!
Or, Wow, our guy just came way down the wing nowhere near the net and took a no angle shot, lets start cheering wooooooooo!

ugarte

DeltaOne81

Al DeFlorio
ESPNU is showing replays of many of last weekend's games in the next few days. I haven't specifically checked if or when the midwest final is being shown.

9 AM today (i.e. in 20 minutes), and maybe again later.

The whole thing or a truncated version?

Pretty sure its truncated. Scheduled for 2 hours. Pretty sure we'll never get the whole thing again. I did record the next game after it too just in case they decided to go long with it.

- Fred

Sorry that this is so tardy. I meant to post this earlier in the week, but unfortunately fate intervened in the form of a family illness...

I just wanted to compliment Coach Schafer, the CU players, support staff, fans, and the Big Red Pep Band on a great showing in Green Bay. The team showed great character both in their inspired comeback against a CC team with two Hobey finalists and the epic duel with my Badgers. As happy as I was for the Badger players---especially the seniors, who endured an absolutely hellish freshman season---to advance to Milwaukee, I also felt a good deal of sadness for the Cornell players, who deserved a better fate.

As for the fans who made the trip...though you weren't great in number, you certainly made up for it in spirit. I know there have been a few Badger fans that have had some silly complaints about you (though I've only seen the couple on USCHO, as I rarely visit the Badger board), but some are just unable to appreciate fans cheering for a team other than their own. Personally, I love it---I think it does nothing but add to the atmosphere. (Unless, of course, it really is WAY out of line and unoriginal---but that certainly wasn't the case here.) I thought the BRPB was great as well---it's a little different from the Big 10-type bands that we hear more in this part of the country, but that doesn't diminish it's greatness in the least.

I know that on boards like USCHO and elsewhere, there's a lot of provincial nonsense that gets bandied about---i.e., the West is better, Eastern hockey sucks, the WCHA is better than the NHL, etc. I've never bought into any of it, and I've tried to remain at least reasonably informed about teams such as Cornell that I rarely see. I thought that I had an appropriate level of respect and appreciation for Cornell's program, as I thought I understood how good they were. The Big Red were the matchup that I feared most for the Badgers---in many ways, a mirror image, built upon the same principles. I now see that even my healthy respect for CU's program entering the weekend was inadequate. Coaches, players, fans---a first-class outfit throughout. And I know that I'm not alone among Badger fans in feeling that way---you definitely have some new western fans.

Thanks to the Big Red fans for being so gracious in defeat. I wish you much success next season, and would love to see a rematch next year---preferably not until St. Louis, though.

Bradford

Bradford, thanks much for your kind words. Best of luck to your guys in Milwaukee next week. I'll second the hope for a St. Louis rematch!

Just a reminder that today is the first day that 2007 Frozen Four Ticket Applications can be submitted. There's a link on NCAAsports.com. Let's hope Cornell will be there in St. Louis next year!

ebilmes
Just a reminder that today is the first day that 2007 Frozen Four Ticket Applications can be submitted. There's a link on NCAAsports.com. Let's hope Cornell will be there in St. Louis next year!

Heh, as if the NCAA needs to hold onto my money any longer than they already do. But thanks for the reminder