Another cheer Trotsky will not approve of ...

[sarcastipundit.blogspot.com]

I know the Pepsi Center is probably not the proper venue for somthing like this, but this should be arranged for subsequent seasons.

Been there, done that.

Sorry, but I fail to see the humor in this. It's supposed to be funny that a single, straight male of college age would be interested in a single, straight female who comes on to him? It's supposed to be something you can make fun of that he believed what he was intended to believe?

I'm highly against chanting phone numbers or using anything from someone's private life, and I'm vehemently against the Lynah Faithful doing, and gaining a reputation for doing, anything like the above stupidity. It's utterly classless.

Beeeej

Beeeej
Sorry, but I fail to see the humor in this. It's supposed to be funny that a single, straight male of college age would be interested in a single, straight female who comes on to him? It's supposed to be something you can make fun of that he believed what he was intended to believe?

I'm highly against chanting phone numbers or using anything from someone's private life, and I'm vehemently against the Lynah Faithful doing, and gaining a reputation for doing, anything like the above stupidity. It's utterly classless.

Beeeej

Wow, you even put vehemently in italics. That must mean you are really serious about your opinion.

Phone numbers are too far, making fun of someone's desire to "close the distance" is not. It's classless to engage in a conversation with a willing participant over instant messenger? I'm not sure what your standard for class is then.

Tub(a)
Phone numbers are too far, making fun of someone's desire to "close the distance" is not. It's classless to engage in a conversation with a willing participant over instant messenger? I'm not sure what your standard for class is then.

I fail to see how anybody who thinks using phone numbers goes too far could possibly think it's classy to intentionally defraud someone into setting themselves up for public humiliation.

Beeeej

Beeeej

Tub(a)
Phone numbers are too far, making fun of someone's desire to "close the distance" is not. It's classless to engage in a conversation with a willing participant over instant messenger? I'm not sure what your standard for class is then.

I fail to see how anybody who thinks using phone numbers goes too far could possibly think it's classy to intentionally defraud someone into setting themselves up for public humiliation.

Beeeej

I guess I don't see where the athlete was forced to give up all of this sensitive information to an internet stranger.

Tub(a)

Beeeej

Tub(a)
Phone numbers are too far, making fun of someone's desire to "close the distance" is not. It's classless to engage in a conversation with a willing participant over instant messenger? I'm not sure what your standard for class is then.

I fail to see how anybody who thinks using phone numbers goes too far could possibly think it's classy to intentionally defraud someone into setting themselves up for public humiliation.

Beeeej

I guess I don't see where the athlete was forced to give up all of this sensitive information to an internet stranger.

I didn't say he was forced. And I guess I don't see how you can think it's classy. I suppose it's a matter of opinion. But rest assured I'd think less of you if you did it to a Cornell opponent, and leave it at that.

Beeeej

Um, I hate the number thing as Lynah too - but they said they chanted *her* number. Which, I figure was faked. Just to let me know that they were onto him.

On the whole topic, I kinda feel it went a bit too far, because what's wrong with a guy talking to a girl. But I also see the "haha, you were fooled by a computer" take on it.

But I'm not sure about the phone number controversy - unless I'm missing something - because it wasn't even a real number.

Tub(a)
It's classless to engage in a conversation with a willing participant over instant messenger? I'm not sure what your standard for class is then.

Let me put it this way:

Haven't you ever heard kids convince another kid of a lie, but one that is completely reasonable, and then proceed to laugh at him when he believes it?

How is it unreasonable that this guy might have groupies IM'ing him for dates? Why should we laugh at "tricking" someone into believing something completely reasonable?

"Holy shit, look at that car wreck!" "What??" "Psyche!!! Made you look!" Pretty juvenile.

Kyle

If you look at the comments, they suggested he got that wrong and it was actually his number they chanted.

krose
"Holy shit, look at that car wreck!" "What??" "Psyche!!! Made you look!" Pretty juvenile.

Holy unequal situation, Batman!

I agree that using this sort of thing from normal conversation is questionable. There are situations where I think it is reasonable to make fun of someone's actions when they are grossly beyond what a normal human being would do. I don't really want to post those situations here, if you want to know PM me for details.

Tub(a)
There are situations where I think it is reasonable to make fun of someone's actions when they are grossly beyond what a normal human being would do.

To an extent, I agree with you. I think the baseball bat thing was fair game, certainly.

Beeeej

Personally, I don't think it was funny since they didn't get anything on him that was that embarrasing. If they had really pushed it, I'll leave it to your imaginations what that could mean, then just letting him know that they had seen it would be enough to put him off his game. They wouldn't have even had to chant anything that bad.

Anyone going to bring up the Maine hockey player that tried to hook up with a teenage girl?

atb9
Anyone going to bring up the Maine hockey player that tried to hook up with a teenage girl?

You mean underage teenage girl? There's a piece of legislation seen differently by Bill and Hilary.

Regarding some of the concern over yelling out a phone # in a stadium or arena:

If it's the player's phone # (or his mom's), that seems beyond the realm of decency. Where does it stop -- will Harvard fans wave "RETARD" signs when David McKee steps on the ice?

But if the Cal fans scammed a USC player, convinced him he was in touch with an interested female groupie, then during warmups changed out "Victoria" and the alleged phone # for Victoria (to verify the gag), that's pretty damn funny. We've been using terrabytes of bandwidth figuring out ways to mess with the opponent, and Cal figured out a classy way to do it.

But: How much should fans be involved in trying to affect the outcome of the game. Does anyone else think that in amateur sports at least, there ought to be some baseline of decency? Cheer for your team, pro forma boos when the other team is penalized (3,000-plus shouting "See ya, good" is an affirmation of how many fans are cheering Cornell and they're all on top of the game), but don't try to invade the player's personal life.

On another note, during the National Anthem you guys yell RED! and we yell (K)NIGHT! (I don't yell anything, just the way I was raised.) I don't have a problem with either side putting emphasis on either RED or NIGHT as I think it is clever play on words, but I think adding SUCKS after "knight" during the anthem is a little tasteless. JMO not intended for a flamefest.

Cheers,
Drew

billhoward
You mean underage teenage girl?

Yeah. I'm now 25 and I go by the "half your age plus 7" rule so any teenage girl (girl is a key word) is pretty much off limits for me.

Drew
I think adding SUCKS after "knight" during the anthem is a little tasteless.

I happen to agree, but the Faithful always seem to need the last word. I feel more strongly about it - excuse me, more strongly - when someone adds the "sucks" after "night" when Clarkson's not even in the house.

Beeeej

billhoward
Where does it stop -- will Harvard fans wave "RETARD" signs when David McKee steps on the ice?

I'm not even going to bother pointing out that the letters are wrong (or right, as the case may be).

Okay, I'll bite. How are they "wrong"?

Beeeej

Beeeej
Okay, I'll bite. How are they "wrong"?

Beeeej

The order is correct but the letters should be flipped so that they are facing left, right?

atb9

Beeeej
Okay, I'll bite. How are they "wrong"?

The order is correct but the letters should be flipped so that they are facing left, right?

Then it'd just be a mirror image. Granted, I don't have dyslexia, but that's not how I understand it to work.

Beeeej

CowbellGuy

billhoward
Where does it stop -- will Harvard fans wave "RETARD" signs when David McKee steps on the ice?

I'm not even going to bother pointing out that the letters are wrong (or right, as the case may be).

That's from Cheel this year, right?

redhair34

CowbellGuy

billhoward
Where does it stop -- will Harvard fans wave "RETARD" signs when David McKee steps on the ice?

I'm not even going to bother pointing out that the letters are wrong (or right, as the case may be).

That's from Cheel this year, right?

Is that supposed to be a dyslexia "joke" or just a way around having the sign confiscated for saying "sucks"?

nyc94
Is that supposed to be a dyslexia "joke" or just a way around having the sign confiscated for saying "sucks"?

I think it was supposed to be a dyslexia joke, but as Beeeej pointed out that is not how it works.

redhair34

nyc94
Is that supposed to be a dyslexia "joke" or just a way around having the sign confiscated for saying "sucks"?

I think it was supposed to be a dyslexia joke, but as Beeeej pointed out that is not how it works.

No, I think Be{4}j was saying the opposite: what they drew was, in fact, closer to what would cause problems with dyslexia than a mirror image would have been.

Kyle

Beeeej

atb9

Beeeej
Okay, I'll bite. How are they "wrong"?

The order is correct but the letters should be flipped so that they are facing left, right?

Then it'd just be a mirror image. Granted, I don't have dyslexia, but that's not how I understand it to work.

The wikipedia entry on dyslexia is a fascinating read: [en.wikipedia.org]

Writing and motor skills
* Trouble with writing or copying; pencil grip is unusual; handwriting varies or is illegible.
* Clumsy, uncoordinated, poor at ball or team sports; difficulties with fine and/or gross motor skills and tasks; prone to motion-sickness.
* Can be ambidextrous, and often confuses left/right, over/under.
* May write in "mirror writing" (writing that appears backwards, but can be read when reflected in a mirror)

Thanks for sharing that, atb9 - color me better informed now.

Beeeej

Beeeej
Thanks for sharing that, atb9 - color me better informed now.

[aol]Me too![/aol]

Kyle

Dyslexia is the agnostic insomniac lying awake pondering the existence of Dog.

It varies in intensity and it can be seeing things as mirror images as well as transpositions. It can manifest itself in one or both or neither of problems with fine or gross motor skills; you can't tie your shoes easily yet you can glove a 90mph slapshot.

It's painful for a parent to see a bright kid who cannot grasp what's in a book, yet gets it instantly when the key information is read to him. You can get over it, or at least deal with it and be successful. Mckee is. Charles Schwab did.

One nice thing about so many kids being classified as special needs or differently abled or whatever ... is that there's much less of a stigma compared to a generation ago.

I'm not sure if it's a double standard on my part, or perhaps just a personal bias in favor of a player for my favorite team, but I have no problem with the "Victoria" thing while I take serious issue with anyone making fun of McKee due to his dyslexia et al.

Drew
On another note, during the National Anthem you guys yell RED! and we yell (K)NIGHT! (I don't yell anything, just the way I was raised.) I don't have a problem with either side putting emphasis on either RED or NIGHT as I think it is clever play on words, but I think adding SUCKS after "knight" during the anthem is a little tasteless. JMO not intended for a flamefest.

I think it's on a different level. (I thought Clarkson fans--as well as others--also yelled "SUCKS" after "RED".) "Red" and "night" are actual words in the national anthem. "Suck" (and "Sioux" are not. So when some sanctimonious PA announcer tells me not to cheer during the anthem because our troups are overseas defending our freedoms, I still sing one word (much) louder than the others. But I will refrain from using words not in the anthem if asked.

If your uncle died in Vietnam defending free speech, then by all means, use it.

But be prepared for rinks where townspeople fans will bristle when anything interferes with the national anthem. That is one sticking point between Cornell fans at the Florida Classic and the Fort Myers/Estero area townspeople who attend.

Let me rephrase that, I think yelling sucks after Night and Red is tasteless.

Drew
Let me rephrase that, I think yelling sucks after Night and Red is tasteless.

I prefer the approach of screaming the word before the offending word (in our case "Night" or "You"; in your case "Red" to either lessen the impact or throw the opposing fans off.

Unfortunately, I tried this at Union and was the only person in the entire section to scream "Can!"

Kyle

billhoward
One nice thing about so many kids being classified as special needs or differently abled or whatever ... is that there's much less of a stigma compared to a generation ago.

My daughter is dyslexic, and nobody in her school would dream of making fun of her for it. And this is amidst the tumultuous 9th grade female angstfest where every girl who looks at you funny is instantly a "whore," etc... People have definitely come a long way from when "four eyes" and "retard" were part of the serious adolescent lexicon.

I've been helping her with reading and writing for seven years, and while she has gotten better, it is always something she'll have to work around. Her particular manifestation comes in two forms. Simple transpositions, letter mix-ups, and "letter doubling," which any spellcheck can help with. But the more serious effect is errant word completion. As we "ordinary" readers process a word, we start winnowing down the choices as we move through the letters. So, by the time you get through "posit--"you've got a pretty good start on reading the word "position." But my daughter may start that word as "possib--". Her brain is just as quick (likely quicker) than that of most people reading this post, so she jumps right ahead with "possible" and keeps reading. Of course, the sentence now makes no sense at all, which means she has to go back and read it. She'll probably read it the same way 4 or 5 times before she sees the error and corrects for it.

Now multiply that by, say, 60 misreads over a dozen pages, mix in adolescence and self-doubt and feeling ashamed of not being able to read as fast as her friends, and imagine what it's like for her to go through a typical day of school. She has her work read to her as much as possible, but that introduces all sorts of social issues which are their own burden.

As I said, people don't give her any crap about it -- even the cruelest kids seem to recognize that some things are simply beyond the pale.

Trotsky
As I said, people don't give her any crap about it -- even the cruelest kids seem to recognize that some things are simply beyond the pale.

If that's true, that's great - but it's certainly a more recent development.

Beeeej

Beeeej

Trotsky
As I said, people don't give her any crap about it -- even the cruelest kids seem to recognize that some things are simply beyond the pale.

If that's true, that's great - but it's certainly a more recent development.

Well, it may also be because she's the sweetest girl in the world.

Trotsky
My daughter is dyslexic, and nobody in her school would dream of making fun of her for it. And this is amidst the tumultuous 9th grade female angstfest
...
As I said, people don't give her any crap about it -- even the cruelest kids seem to recognize that some things are simply beyond the pale.

so basically what you are saying is the makers of that sign have less class than adolescent 9th graders...
sometimes people stoop reeeeaaaallllly low

Drew
Let me rephrase that, I think yelling sucks after Night and Red is tasteless.

I have to agree with you on that, my man. I'd be lying if I said I had never yelled out "sucks" during the anthem, but I haven't done it in a while and don't think I'm going to do it anymore. Why? I'm no ultra-patriotic dude who never questions the government's actions, but there's something special about the national anthem that should be held sacred. (I wish I could find a different, maybe less strong, word besides "sacred", but that's the most fitting thing I can think of at the moment.) We get close enough as it is by yelling out "red" or "(k)night", so turning the anthem into a screaming match (i.e., including "sucks" makes it even worse.

Will
I'm not sure if it's a double standard on my part, or perhaps just a personal bias in favor of a player for my favorite team, but I have no problem with the "Victoria" thing while I take serious issue with anyone making fun of McKee due to his dyslexia et al.

it's definitely a personal bias, which i hold as well ...but there is also definitely more to it than that

i think there is a line...for the "victoria" thing, the guy didn't have to give her his number, may think twice about doing so in the future, and can see it as a personal mistake. he will (did?) get crap about it from his friends i'm sure. and in the future may even laugh about it...

mckee can (and does) work hard to live with dyslexia and add, but ultimately, it's not a choice, like giving a phone number

i'll get off my soap box now, but i also have add. it's really just not funny, and it's irritating when people try to make it so. ok now i'm really done.

Beeeej

Trotsky
As I said, people don't give her any crap about it -- even the cruelest kids seem to recognize that some things are simply beyond the pale.

If that's true, that's great - but it's certainly a more recent development.

Beeeej

More recent than 1999, for sure -- sadly, the first thing I thought when I saw the video of the autistic basketball player Jason McElwain's performance was, "that never would have happened at my high school." Anyone who was the littlest bit different was pretty much assured a healthy dose of marginalization. It was always fun to get extended time on AP tests and be accused of "cheating" by my peers.

But on the general topic of this thread, what I find amusing is that it seems people from areas (like NYC) and or social structures (post college, working 1,000 hours a week) where Internet dating is a totally acceptable (and perhaps preferred) method of socializing find this "Victoria" debacle far more appalling than people who live in places where you can just go up to someone and say, "hey big fella, how's it going?"

Jerseygirl
But on the general topic of this thread, what I find amusing is that it seems people from areas (like NYC) and or social structures (post college, working 1,000 hours a week) where Internet dating is a totally acceptable (and perhaps preferred) method of socializing find this "Victoria" debacle far more appalling than people who live in places where you can just go up to someone and say, "hey big fella, how's it going?"

Or maybe it's just that more of us college (or immediately post-college)-age people have messed with someone over IM...

I swear I've never pretended to be some imaginary person online and gotten back at anyone who's hurt my friend.

Trotsky

Beeeej

Trotsky
As I said, people don't give her any crap about it -- even the cruelest kids seem to recognize that some things are simply beyond the pale.

If that's true, that's great - but it's certainly a more recent development.

Well, it may also be because she's the sweetest girl in the world.

Your daughter's a whore!

EDIT: I'm sorry. While Greg and I don't see eye to eye on the appropriateness of cheers, this post was certainly inappropriate and crosses the line. Greg, I've never met your daughter, I am sure she is very sweet and not a whore.

Liz '05
Or maybe it's just that more of us college (or immediately post-college)-age people have messed with someone over IM...

I swear I've never pretended to be some imaginary person online and gotten back at anyone who's hurt my friend.

I AM STILL IMMEDIATELY POST-COLLEGE! DEAR LORD!

I'm also probably far more confrontational than most people, so I guess it didn't occur to me that IM would be used to mess with someone rather than just going up to them and airing your grievances. Like at Festivus. Or you know, just picking up his or her pitcher of beer and "accidentally spilling" it on his or her back in a crowded bar...

Jerseygirl

Liz '05
Or maybe it's just that more of us college (or immediately post-college)-age people have messed with someone over IM...

I swear I've never pretended to be some imaginary person online and gotten back at anyone who's hurt my friend.

I AM STILL IMMEDIATELY POST-COLLEGE! DEAR LORD!

I'm also probably far more confrontational than most people, so I guess it didn't occur to me that IM would be used to mess with someone rather than just going up to them and airing your grievances. Like at Festivus. Or you know, just picking up his or her pitcher of beer and "accidentally spilling" it on his or her back in a crowded bar...

Also excellent ideas for this person, except that she wasn't in Ithaca and we had no idea what she looked like. We couldn't do anything in person, and the situation kinda lent itself to creating an imaginary person.

HeafDog
there's something special about the national anthem that should be held sacred. (I wish I could find a different, maybe less strong, word besides "sacred", but that's the most fitting thing I can think of at the moment.)

How about "treated with reverence and/or respect"? I don't reserve any special status for the national anthem per se, but I believe in the importance of ritual, and as such think all the stuff about removing one's hat during the national anthem etc is important. Also, I think any act of disrespect towards a national symbol should be done deliberately and not out of ignorance. If someone burns a flag to protest that country's actions, they're making a statement and know what they're doing, and that's fine. If a car dealer puts up a hundred tiny flags in a show of patriotism and lets them all drag on the ground, that bothers me. If you want to make a show of national support, do it right.

Sorry, got a bit OT there.

jtwcornell91

HeafDog
there's something special about the national anthem that should be held sacred. (I wish I could find a different, maybe less strong, word besides "sacred", but that's the most fitting thing I can think of at the moment.)

How about "treated with reverence and/or respect"? I don't reserve any special status for the national anthem per se, but I believe in the importance of ritual, and as such think all the stuff about removing one's hat during the national anthem etc is important. Also, I think any act of disrespect towards a national symbol should be done deliberately and not out of ignorance. If someone burns a flag to protest that country's actions, they're making a statement and know what they're doing, and that's fine. If a car dealer puts up a hundred tiny flags in a show of patriotism and lets them all drag on the ground, that bothers me. If you want to make a show of national support, do it right.

Sorry, got a bit OT there.

Totally agree. I certainly am not a flag waving right winger, but your comment about the car dealer hits it right. It's the pseudo self-righteous or commercial use and then completely disregarding the respect aspect that bothers me. I had a neighbor who wanted to show how "American" he was and put his flag out, and left it there rain or shine, day or night, no light shining on it. It's always nice to be able to point out the lack of respect that he's actually showing.

That also brings up that I hate the sucks or anything else added to the singing.