Ticket Line "disassembles"

A line already began forming for ticket sales, but quickly "disassembled". Students cited a concern about getting "cut off" by line cutters as happened last year. An Athletics representative informed the students that because the line is presently unsupervised by university officials, that they are still vulnerable to being cut off. Athletics does not have the resources to hire people this early in the process; nor does the university want the risk. The students understood the risks they were assuming and soon dispersed.

They couldn't self-police?

Thirty people line up. Five minutes before the university numbering guy shows up, 8 frat boys cut them. It's 30-8. Not a problem.

Greg, you are so right. Back in the "good OLD days" we never had any U help. You got in line and the first few there started a list, and gave the rules for line maintenance till the U openned up the ticket office. Eventually, the U started coming early and taking our list for line maintenance, but it was still student driven.

I think all you need are some aggressive, but reasonable students, and it works. Oh, for the good old days.

Believe me. They're making different kids these days. I teach freshmen in high school, and you wouldn't believe how reluctant these kids are to stick up for themselves. There are a handful of kids who cut the lunch line and walk around the cafeteria asking for change. The offenders aren't aggressive nor intimidating (at least compared to the kids I went to school with), but the masses yield without protest almost every time.

I think we can credit the zero-tolerance non-violence policies that exist in public education. If there's a conflict of any type, typically all kids involved are punished no matter who provoked the incident. This starts in kindergarten and continues through grade 12. The good kids don't want to get suspended, so they avoid the conflict. I don't want all the kids in my school to walk around toothless, but I hate seeing a generation of wusses letting people walk all over them.

I teach in a high school with a great academic reputation -- the kind of school that sends about a half dozen kids to Cornell each year. These are the line dissassemblers.

I understand the instinct to not rock the boat. #1, you could get kicked out of the line yourself, and #2 the kind of Joe Rockhead morons who cut are the kind of morons who don't resolve conflicts rationally. This is the way bullies generally get their way -- it's too much of a pain in the ass to deal with them.

I think a proposal could be discussed between Athletics, Day Hall and students to have STUDENTS create the line numbering process. This would be one topic the student assembly would love to own, and could generate all sorts of positive fallout. "Students, after you've figured out how you want to do it, consider the department resources at your disposal." (within reason, of course!). "Of course, we'll handle the money!". It seems to reason that students MIGHT be less willing to intrude upon or violate a student-driven process, whereas with Athletics in charge, they feel less restrained from trampling the rules. Admittedly this does not address the question of student screwing-over fellow student. That harkens to some of the earlier, very valid observations about "kids these days". Respect for anything "decent", like manners or our ubiquitous elders, seems a foreign concept these days. When did we as a society stop endorsing these values and mores, or is it just that I'm more jaded than originally suspected?

[Q]Greg, you are so right. Back in the "good OLD days" we never had any U help. You got in line and the first few there started a list, and gave the rules for line maintenance till the U openned up the ticket office. Eventually, the U started coming early and taking our list for line maintenance, but it was still student driven.[/Q]
I plan on trying to recreate this tradition if at all possible when I get there tomorrow evening/night. I'll let you know how it goes when I return to life near a computer, sometime on Saturday.

-Fred

To be fair, "kids these days" are no worse than kids in any age. I've seen "kids these days" complaints dating back to impassioned speeches to the SPQR, and they're all bunk. As one of the most decrepit elders on the forum, I can tell you that during my generation's student days of artificially-extended adolescence, we were every bit as impolite, crude, and stupid as today's undergrads. It's nothing fifteen years, two kids and a mortgage won't fix.

I think the Cornell Athletic Department called it wrong on this one. They have kids wait in line, because they want the most rabid hockey fans. But when it all boils down they kick the most rabid fans out. I don't know if it's true or not, but a kid I talked to said that there was a group waiting on Wednesday night that was kicked out and came back Thursday night only to be kicked out again and had their names and ID numbers taken and won't be able to buy tickets now. If the story is true, Schafer just lost his most rabid fans at games.

If the athletic department can't watch the process early on, then they shouldn't. If the department can only staff someone after a certain, start providing staff then and take things from there. Let the kids who are already there stay. Kids know the risks of lining up early. Most of us are atleast 18. I'm not saying that we are all knowing, but we have seen some of the world and for once maybe Cornell can treat us like the capable kids they thought we were when they accepted us here. Let us line up when we feel we are ready to. If we skip class, so be it. No one comes calling when we don't go on other days, why start when we go wait for hockey tickets.

All in all, I think it would be hard for them to make the line process any worse than last year. The problem isn't people cutting in line the night before so much as it is people who cut in line 10 minutes before line numbers are handed out.

Well, that's my rant for the day. I'll save the fact that they are charging to listen to games online now for another day.

Despite posted signs indicating lines will be dispersed, students lined-up overnight only to be sent home this morning. The administration can not condone a process that encourages student to cut classesl, so they can't provide any supervision for the line. And those that have no school will have an unfair advantage over students who do not. The students understood the reasoning and dispersed in an orderly and mature manner.

It seems the university will provide some "authority" this evening after classes end - seems reasonable. Prior to that, any assembly will be dispersed. Anyone excercising their right to assemble may encounter Athletics' right to NOT sell tickets to them.

Today's weather looks questionable.....

Last year, I was the 36th person on the line, from my count, and stayed up all night patroling the best I could against cutters. I ended up with line number 111.

The main problem wasn't egregious line cutters. For them, we all did stand up for ourselves and got them to leave when we caught them. The problem was the "self-policing" policies set by the first few people in the line. They decided that at the early stages, 1 person could hold a spot for 4 other people in the line at least at the early stages, which people held onto all night, so you'ld have people poping back in the line that thoguht they had a legit right to be there and wouldn't leave. And there was no staff authority to turn to and back us up, even though we'd been sitting their all night.
It's not fair for the first person in line to make the policies. It's fair for everyone to know what the policies are.

And dispersing the line is great too. Starting to wait on Wednesday night may be a way to express your love of CU hockey, but it puts pressure on everyone else to start waiting, which cant be contolled or patrolled, and thus cutting and cahos is bound to pursue. Doing it the right way, coming early enough on Friday afternoon, only helps those people to night wast time they don't need to, and help everyone get a fairer line number.

An email from a friend:

1)The line starts at 6pm - anyone in line before that will be kicked
out. Also, should you refuse to leave, your name will be taken down and
you won't be sold tickets.

2) Absolutely no cutting - they will be patrolling this weekend and
kicking people out who do this.

Apparently a last minute decision by the Athetics people, bc the initial page said nothing bout 6 pm and nothing about patrolling (in fact, it specifically called it the 'unsupervised line'). Nonetheless, I think they're good changes.

We (or at least Cornell) don't want people skipping classes and we don't want cutters.

-Fred

DeltaOne81 '03 wrote:

An email from a friend:

1)The line starts at 6pm - anyone in line before that will be kicked
out. Also, should you refuse to leave, your name will be taken down and
you won't be sold tickets.

So, how do they propose to prevent a mad scramble at 6pm sharp when the line will be allowed to form? How far away can you be standing at 5:59 and not be dispersed? It seems to me like the easiest way to prevent chaos at the front of a line is to allow the first person to line up earlier than anyone else is willing to.

Also, doesn't dispersing lines that form before 6pm Friday count as a part of the procedure which was not announced ahead of time, and wasn't that the biggest complaint people had? I seem to have accidentally voted for "bumblefuck" in this poll, but it sounds like that's not far off...

You didn't vote for anything. Performance caching wasn't allowing for proper domain name resolution. If you care enough you can delete the elf.hockey.cornell.edu AdvancedPoll29 cookie and vote again. That goes for everyone else who might have voted.

EDIT: I just made a new poll to replace the last one, so no need to worry about cookies. Should be able to vote now.

Since nobody wants to encourage cutting class, why don't we have the actual number assignment on Sunday evening, rather than Saturday morning? It's been Saturday morning as long as I can remember, and I don't see that it makes any sense.

Probably because that would extend the process another day. Students would still be lining up Friday or Thursday, and the university would feel obliged to protect them from weather, themselves, etc.. Students lining up at 5pm tonight will need to wait until line number assignments at 1pm Saturday - that's 20 hours. If they are not fortumate enough to have someone take their place in line, they will be there for another 10 hrs until 11pm. That's 30 hours! I assume these kids have homework, tests, papers?? Having line assignments on Sunday without a break would seem unduly harsh and could put those who don't have stand-ins at a disadvantage.

It's doubtful any process would be perfect. This year it seems an effort has been made to accommodate better the needs of students and administrators while keeping fairness at the heart of it. Actually, some kids were grateful that the line was being dispersed as they had academic commitments they needed to keep. That's why they're here in the first place!

... is the University cracking down on traying the slope? And are the students glad to be thus protected? After all, they should probably be home studying anyway...

[Q]To be fair, "kids these days" are no worse than kids in any age. I've seen "kids these days" complaints dating back to impassioned speeches to the SPQR, and they're all bunk. As one of the most decrepit elders on the forum, I can tell you that during my generation's student days of artificially-extended adolescence, we were every bit as impolite, crude, and stupid as today's undergrads. It's nothing fifteen years, two kids and a mortgage won't fix.[/Q]

"The Earth is degenerating these days. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer mind their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching."
- Assyrian stone tablet, c. 2800 BCE

Beeeej

[Q]So, how do they propose to prevent a mad scramble at 6pm sharp when the line will be allowed to form? How far away can you be standing at 5:59 and not be dispersed? It seems to me like the easiest way to prevent chaos at the front of a line is to allow the first person to line up earlier than anyone else is willing to.[/Q]
How many people are going to be there at 6? 20? 30? Who cares. The probably last year was being cut by 100+ people

[Q]Also, doesn't dispersing lines that form before 6pm Friday count as a part of the procedure which was not announced ahead of time, and wasn't that the biggest complaint people had? I seem to have accidentally voted for "bumblefuck" in this poll, but it sounds like that's not far off...[/Q]
Yes, I had that thought myself, but at least they're positive changes.

I think John's point is that these are supposedly reasonable, intelligent people who are making the rules, and after several years in a row of screwing things up, they really should have a pretty good idea by now of where the problems are going to be. Unannounced change in the rules are unannounced changes in the rules, and someone is going to get screwed by them.

You only have to go back to 1991 and remember the actual serious injuries that several Faithful suffered due to a rush against the fence behind the Schoellkopf Crescent to imagine what might be the consequences of saying "You must all hang out outside the building until exactly 6pm, at which point you will have to trample your enemies in order to get a reasonably good position on line even if you were here before anybody else" - which is what, if I'm interpreting this correctly, the Athletics Department is saying. It really doesn't seem that outlandish a question to me to ask "What exactly is the point of having people try to demonstrate their loyalty by being first on line, when everybody in the universe knows exactly what time they have to be there to be tied for first?"

Incidentally, the official week of classes at Cornell doesn't end until 1:10pm on Saturday. If they really wanted to avoid having any students missing classes, that's when they'd let you start lining up.

Beeeej

[Q] "The Earth is degenerating these days. . . . the end of the world is fast approaching."
- Assyrian stone tablet, c. 2800 BCE
[/Q]

Move over Nostradamus. There's a new guy in town, and he's got plenty of apocalypse to go around.

My departing remarks before I leave for the line-

I'm sort of disappointed at all the grumbling. The ticket office had a few goals: make sure the most dedicated fans get the best tickets, make sure people don't massively cut, make sure the procedure is more organized.

The first mandates that there is some waiting time - like 1 to 11 pm Saturday - when you have to be there and it's regulated. That's a given now. They have to do a period like that to guarantee that no one can just show up and get tickets and leave, putting in no time committment. They've succeeded in that. There are going to be people who will be there well in advance of that time. There's nothing wrong with that, it's their choice, and they should be given the opportunity to show their committment by giving the extra time.

They claim to be monitoring the line this year therefore meeting part 2, which could have been done via self-policing. Sadly, this hasn't been happening and the Athletic Department has done a decent job doing what they have to.

Three has hopefully been accomplished,but if they follow through on everything - the pre-pay, etc,it should be.

I think they've done what they needed to. They'llalways be people who will bitch bc they don't want to committ 10 hours on Saturday. Well, screw 'em, they don't deserve Section B. I'm off to the line.

-Fred

I rushed a girl to the hospital in '92. She cracked the back of her head wide open traying Libe. She wound up with a plate in her head. Fun, fun, fun.

big red apple wrote:

Move over Nostradamus. There's a new guy in town, and he's got plenty of apocalypse to go around.

Nostradamus? You mean Quasimodo?


(Please tell me someone watched The Sopranos last Sunday.)

I was there yesterday (Friday) at 3:30 and everything went very well. CU Police ensured that students entered the line in an orderly fashion. I heard mostly compliments from students who expressed satisfaction that things were going smoothly. Sure, there were some grumblings about groups being split up; but is it realistic to think this can be completely eliminated? When administrators are responsible for 100's of "kids" many of whom who are probably used to getting things their way, is it realistic to think there won't be some disappointments? All-in-all I believe definite progress has been made.

I also understand there is a schedule of events for the day. Athletics may be suspending line checks during the women's soccer game so students can get some relief and fresh air. Entertainment is planned including projection TV showing of last year's hockey games. They are also selling a cool t-shirt that has "Lynah Faithful" printed on the front and "I did my time in the Line" on the back for $5 (cost). Oops, there they go again making "unannounced changes"!

They're making a real effort to improve the whole event above the base requirements they set forth. Those who stop to really pay attention will see positive results from those "working stiffs" who also sacrifice their weekends to ensure the students get the service they deserve.

[Q]When administrators are responsible for 100's of "kids"[/Q]
I'm on a break from the line, and since it apparently hasn't been mentioned yet... yes, hundreds. I got there at 7 pm, and by my informal count, I was mid to upper 400s on the line. By the time we got line numbers (which they handed out last night, bc you can't deal with an unregulated crowd of HUNDREDS of people) I was 530, not a bad 'cutting' rate - which of course is inevitable that it will happen some, but they were definitely actively protecting against it.

A friend of mine got there at about 1 or 2 am, and he's 722.

Man, that was nuts. I have no idea why so many people came so early - I never expected it. Good for the team, but... shocking.

Nap time now,

-Fred

:: Plea for lost possession deleted - was turned into Lost & Found nearby and I recovered it ::

I too am on a shift break, so I'll chime in.

I don't know who's voting in the poll but to have twice as many "bumblef*ck" votes as "better" votes is ridiculous.

How one could view this year's process as anything but better than last year is beyond me. The key ingredient is here this year -- "official" supervision. Sure, maybe a couple kids managed to sneak in here and there, but there was nothing to the tune of the mob rush and pushing that occured when the doors opened at 7 am last year and there was 1 75-year-old man to handle everything.

Maybe some will complain because they didn't get the line number they expected if they showed up early this morning, but that's no reason to knock the system.

The one complaint I can see is that they handed out numbers last night, well before the stated time of Saturday at 1. However, I don't see this as much of an issue, being that it still is a first-come, first-serve process for handing out numbers. Maybe a few people had the advantage of being called by friends that line numbers were being given out, and I can understand complaints from those who didn't know they were being handed out last night, but I don't see that as a major flaw in the system.

I think Athletics did a far superior job this year as compared to last.

Disclaimer: I hereby attribute any typos to lack of sleep

I just received a call from somebody waiting. An Ithaca a capella group, the "Sons of Pitches", is performing in the Ramin Room. Evidently, the t-shirts are pretty nice too. Also, the mood of the place seems pretty low-key. Hopefully we'll get some students to the soccer game vs. Penn.

[Q]The one complaint I can see is that they handed out numbers last night[/Q]

Yes, I could see that too, but I really don't think they had a choice to make and it was by far the best decision. By my estimate, 25 to 50 people cut us in a 5 hour period (or somewhere near 1 cut for every 10 people that were already ahead of us). Had they not given out line numbers, that surely would have gotten worse. They simply didn't have the staff to do any decent job of preventing cutting in a line of 600 people. Where they would have been able to patrol much better in a line of 50 to 100 overnighters.

Faced with such a crowd, they had to choose between risking massive cutting in a line bigger then they were prepared to handle, or just making everything official a bit earlier. It was still first come-first serve, so it was still fair.

Oh, and I'll make every effort to current this polling injustice at any computer I can get my hands on .

-Fred

Btw, why do I get the feeling the ones voting for "bumblefuck" aren't involved in the process?

It's true there was cutting. However, accoding to ticket office officials, when students came forward to complain, the line cutters were promptly expelled. I think I heard about a dozen such line cutters were ousted much to the satisfaction of the ones who played fairly.

The line number process is over (about 20 minutes early), and most everyone has already paid. So far, so good......

I'll chime in with my opinion on this year. I arrived with my group Thursday night and we were the second group there. We stayed through the night and heard we were going to be cleared out at 7 AM. At 7 no one came and we thought we were in the clear. But when I was in class from 9 to 10, someone came and cleared out the line and all were gone when I returned.

I headed over to the benches next to the biotech building and was the thrid person in that line, which kinda became the de facto line. As the day went on, people went to Bartels, started reforming a line, and got kicked out again; some headed and joined our line. Around 3 more people started coming in larger numbers, so ours grow, being the closest possible point to athletic grounds (since we were not allowed to form a line of any sort on athletic grounds).

About 3:30 to 4:00 things started getting out of control, as the line grew from 30 or 40 to hundreds. Most people were good and went to the back of the line right up until about 3:50 when it was so clogged most people gave up doing that. Cartain groups did not. TEP I guess felt that they didn't have to wait their turn despite getting there around 3:30. DKE, as I hear, was kicked out Wednesday and got assurance from Gene they would be allowed to go to the front; I dont know if this is true or not. Frankly that's BS; if you really care, form another line elsewhere; dont leave for 2 days and expect t o come back and be allowed to thew front. They just stood next to a brick wall in front of the line and told everyone who told them to go to the end that they weren't buying tickets. As someone mentioned earlier, no one really wanted to raise a ruckus because we wanted the athletic people to know our line was under control and we didnt wanna risk any sort of confrontation that would risk the reputation of our line.

Besides these two groups, the pseudo-line went pretty well. As 4 drew closer, there was a little pushing, buy hey, thats human nature. The police came and let ppl go in order to the real line, and it went calmly (as i side note, my group was the one split, but thats our fault, and our front group went to join our back group).

The line outside Bartels I was pleased with. The security (consisting of several older ladies and a 400 pound fat guy) did a decent enough job of policing the line and I think there was very little, if any, cutting. People at their food, talked, basically had a good time. I was pleased that once we got into Bartels for the night, they gave out the line numbers, since it seemed policing the line would be harder in there.

My group got decent numbers which will get us seats somewhere in B, so I'm happy there. The only thing that pisses me off were the people ahead of me who got there between 3 and 4, whereas I had beenm there since Thursday. Aside from that, I gotta say I had a fun time. The atmosphere in Bartels, while hot and humid and without air circulation, was relaxed and people did work and played video games and watched TV. I didnt wait in line last year, but from I've heard this year seemed much much better. The only thing they might want to alter is how they deal with early lines.

Edit: Does anyone know when the last of the people outside got in? I fell asleep at 2 and people were still coming in. Though if you arrive at 6 on Friday, I really dont think you should expect to get much ticketwise. Also, props to Adam, a transfer from U of Indiana, who started the line outside the biochem benches. If it weren't for that one central line, who knows what kind of clusterF we could have had, especially with the popel who arrive and 3:30 and feel they're entitled to go to the front of the line.

[Q]The only thing they might want to alter is how they deal with early lines. [/Q]
Agreed.

[Q]Does anyone know when the last of the people outside got in? I fell asleep at 2 and people were still coming in.[/Q]
We got in at around 2:30 and there were still over 200 people after us. They turned the lights off about 3:30-4, so I assume everyone was in by then.

[Q]Though if you arrive at 6 on Friday, I really dont think you should expect to get much ticketwise.[/Q]
I have no idea where this new attitude came from. Last year there were, what? A hundred people that camped out? The year before I remember hearing that the FIRST people arrived about 3 am. All of a sudden, spending "only" 28 hours in this process means you 'shouldn't expect much'?! I LOVE Cornell hockey, but when did people loose their minds? The general opinion was that camping out was supposed to be for the diehards, with everyone else showing up Saturday morning.

I'm sorry that I had to work Friday as did other people in my group (some as late as 5), and we all had classes. The opinion was expressed on this forum that getting there at 6 am Saturday would likely be good enough for Section B. Everyone can obviously do what they wish, but I'm really confused why this year 7 times as many people decided to camp out.

Well, I'll be in Lynah, and that's good enough for me. Night, I'm beat.

-Fred

For what it's worth, I haven't voted in the poll, since as people point out, I'm not there.

But from people's accounts, everything after around 5pm Friday afternoon seems to have gone pretty well. The problematic issue seems to be what to do before then. On the one hand, if substantial numbers of people are willing to line up before then, dispersing early lines seems to cause the troubles French Rage talked about. On the other hand, there seem to be enough ill-mannered individuals out there to make it impossible to line up fairly without some official supervision (as a side note, lining up in an orderly way and remaining behind people who got there before you and in front of people who got there after you seems to be lost on Continental Europeans as well; the Swiss told me lining up properly was a British/American thing). On the third hand (!), the University doesn't want to be seen as sanctioning people cutting class by lending an official stamp to lines which form during the school week. (Although as people pointed out, there are some Saturday morning classes; I had one spring semester freshman year, and it was required for my major.)

So I don't know what the best solution is, although I'm inclined to say let people line up and figure out how to police themselves until the University considers it okay to begin official monitoring. Put up one of those movie theatre cordons so people won't block more than half the sidewalk, and to make it more difficult to cut without the consent of the whole line.

Next year, can we have a "live view of the ticket line"? That would be cool.

Delta,

I think the whole timeline (what time in line get's you what line number) has to do with the team's success last year and anticipation of what they're going to do this year. I think's it's safe to say that way more people are excited about this year than the last few (not to say that there aren't ppl who are always excited, but now there are people who usually dont care much about the games who want tickets).

As for classes, well, the people who sell the tickets should do just that: sell the tickets. It shouldn't be an issue to them if people miss class. If someone misses class, it's they're loss. And people who take the time to organize their groups so people alternate and no one misses class (like my group) gets to both go to class and get good tickets. That way, people who take time to think about it and organize are rewarded for their efforts. This year, though, all our plans went to hell when they broke up the line and things suddenly went up in the air.

Yeah, I guess spending well over a day and only getting number 600 is sorta wierd, looking back. But hey, you gotta anticipate that. The amount of interest in the team fluxes, so you never really know.

Well, under the ancien regime if you were a freshman you could wait 36 hours and get a number in the 1,100's, because the other classes had preference.

Nothing I've read convinces me that they shouldn't simply assign line numbers starting two days in advance, have one minimum wage kiddy cop check IDs every couple hours, allow at most two tickets for each line number, and confiscate the ID of anybody who cut and tell them to come pick them up at Day Hall on Monday. That would reward the best fans, allow people to alternate, and keep TEP, DKE and the other cretins either in line or utterly out of it. Slap "caveat linor" all over it so Lilith Lawn Guyland can't sue for a billion dollars when her precious little girl turns up drunk in the Zamboni a week later.

As logistic puzzles go, this just is not that demanding.

This year's line was a hell of a lot better than last years. At least this year people who waiting got the first line numbers. Last year you just needed to be awake at 7am and you could run to the fuckin doors and get a good line number. That's why people who originally counted themselves at 35th in line ended up getting #111. I agree, cutting was limited, also better than last year! As for the groups who arrived at 3-4 on Friday and stood in the front...TEP and DKE were both kicked out of line Thursday at 1 in the afternoon. And yes, Gene did assure them their places in line when they came back Friday afternoon. The first group in line knew this, and let them go either ahead (as is DKE's case) or behind them (as is TEP's case). Those in the BioTech line obviously didn't know this, so of course they were pissed. That doesn't mean that the people who were kicked out on Thursday should get fucked and have to go to the back of the line. That's why Gene assured them their spot in line. As for everything else, this year was 20 times better than last. It was organized, monitored (though I guess not enough for some people), and students were, for the most part, well informed about the process. Sure they started line numbers early. But why not? The people were there. The only real problem was the stench in the Ramin Room...but bearable if you truly are one of the LYNAH FAITHFUL!

I hope the theory about expectations for this years team is accurate. I'd hate to think I lost section B to a bunch of people who were of the mind set "eh, it's a Friday night, why not?" (last year's camp out night was Thursday night). So, for my sanity, I'm going to convince myself they are all as pumped as I am .

[Q]As for classes, well, the people who sell the tickets should do just that: sell the tickets. It shouldn't be an issue to them if people miss class.[/Q]
Unfortunately, that's not the case. The athletic department is part of the University and they ahve to act as such. It'd be like one professor telling you that if you want a good grade in his class, it'd be best if you would skip all your other classes and just sit in his office all day. A professor like that would cause problems.

[Q]And people who take the time to organize their groups so people alternate and no one misses class (like my group) gets to both go to class and get good tickets.[/Q]
Ah, but... the official rules stated that no one could hold the place of anyone else before line numbers were given out. Therefore, by coming back after class, officially, you would be cutting. If you followed the rules, that plan didn't work.

[Q]But hey, you gotta anticipate that.[/Q]
Accept, yes, anticipate, no. Believe me, I'm not bitching, I got there at the time I did and deserve the number I got, fine. I never would have imagined that there'd be over 400 people there by 7 though. No way to anticipate a crowd 5 times (I know I said 7 before ) bigger than last years.

Overall, I agree with Greg. If you're going to have this many people showing up anyway, may as well regulate line #s from the start. I don't think handing out line #s with one person doing line checks would really constitute too much endorsing. Especially if they put a disclaimer in the official rules saying so. Ya know, sorta like how they told us again that we can't say "sucks" ::rolleyes"" .

They could say that before, say, midnight Friday night, you could hold the line # for 2 other people plus your own, thereore more likely for people to be able to go to class. And only for one other person afterwards. The only issue would be how to have a line check system where some o the people won't be there or the irst bunch of them, but I'm sure a little more documentation could do it (line check #1 - 10 pm Thursday night - highest line # as of now: 24).

I think we're damn close to having a fine line system all around. Free of official endorsement (or at least officially disclaimed) - cutting-free. Maybe if I do an MEng, I'll even be here to see it .

-Fred

I have to say that there were some "mistakes" with the process this year:

1. Moving a line of 700 unordered people at 9:30 PM Friday was a mistake. They should have figured out a better way to get people inside and hand out numbers (at least they figured out they better hand out numbers at the time!) - The 400 people who were left outside after the initial 300 went into the field house were left totally in the dark about what was going on, and this is when the line cutting happened.

2. Another thing was the random line checks every two hours, and some were announced an hour in advance. People were taking advantage of this big time and it was a slap in the face for the people who were "playing by the rules" and staying in the field house.

3. Another mistake: It didn't really matter if you didn't show up for line check, as long as you were there within 45 mins of the line check your number was reinstated. What's the point if you don't kick people out for not being there. I think 16 people got removed all weekend, and only because they never came back.

Next year - one line number, one person, truly random line checks - athletics needs to be more strict to get faithful fans.

This year really was a piece of cake for getting tickets, let's hope people actually show up BEFORE the game starts - you know since all the people in sections A,B, and D are so hardcore - ha!

*At least the athletics dept. didn't care about the home entertainment systems people set up to pass the time.

Hey, I resemble that remark.

One line number, one person would greatly increase the number of people involved and add to the stink in the Ramin Room! Generally, the fewer the people the more orderly things tend to be.

I'm glad to hear that everything went as well as can reasonably be expected. It seemed fairly orderly, non-violent, and there was a good dedication-to-success ratio.

That said, if Dodger 916 (many of whose posts were useful and informative) is not a shill for the athletic department, he should apply for a job.

I can see where it might appear that I'm a shill. I'm trying to be factual and objective, recognizing that until we've walked in someone's shoes, "uneducated" judgments tend to detract form the quality of the conversation.

Ultimately, the results are what matter most, not conjecture or opinions. It appears from most accounts that the sale was successful and went very smoothly. Even the Daily Sun had a difficult time criticizing, something they are VERY inclined to do. Sure, it's not perfect, but this event is a moving target. Each year it changes. Last year it was clear they were ill-prepared at the beginning of the event. This year they incorporated what they learned from last year's mess, and the result was an improvement. They also took steps to improve the "event" aspect, like no line checks during the soccer game, live entertainment, and $5 commemorative t-shirts. These are positives, and indicate a desire for improvement. And, I'll bet they will learn from this year's shortcomings and improve it next year. To me, the question becomes how well did the administrators adapt to the unexpected. From most accounts, it appears they did a good job of that, especially on Friday night. They deserve credit for that, and most postings here reflect that. The vote also reflects that.

Hey, if being objective makes me a shill, so be it!