Cornell 1 @ Dartmouth 6 (post-game thread)

[Q]French Rage Wrote:
I think to send the message that this type of play is unacceptable, Schafer should kill one of the players. Now, I have no attachment to Kennedy, so in all fairness it should be him.[/q]

cut McKee some slack... he hasn't had a horrible game since the clarkson playoff loss in 2004. hopefully this is the last one he has. every goalie has an off night every now and then.

Dartmouth had an excellent game plan and they showed tremendous hustle. We lost most faceoffs and were beaten to the puck most of the night. Most telling was the way Dartmouth swarmed our puck handler on the PK. Reminded me of a basketball trap, and our passing was not fast enough to beat the trap.

On a postive note, Chabot played well and the team kept its composure in the third. PK looked much better in the third too.

I also have to think the Dartmouth was due for a breakout game. On paper (and in the preseason poll) they are a much better team than their record shows.

Chris

Well I think that McKee's main problem this year is rebound control. He seems to be leaving rebounds out in front of the net. Maybe he did this last year and I was not paying close enough attention, because our def did a good of clearing the puck out. If McKee gets his rebounds under control he will have a much better time. I dont think Dartmouth had any goals further then 5-6 feet from the goal. This tells me our defense is doing an embarrassing job of clearing the front of the net. Hopefully this team learns how to play defense before next friday.

I still believe that last year's team on paper and overall was better and will be better then this years team:

Losing 2 skilled two-way forwards in Mike Knoepfli and Mike Iggulden, a top notch offensively gifted and defensively aware defenseman in Charlie Cook, a defensive stalwart in Jeremy Downs, a great penalty killer in Paul Varterresian, and a absolute horse in Shane Hynes hurt is tremendously:

(1) On the penalty kill, Iggulden and Knoepfli were "killers" (along with Carefoot). They were two of your best penalty killers in the nation. Throw in Varteressian, who was a primary penalty killer who did an admirable job, shows how our penalty kill units were decimated.

(2) Iggulden was one of the most clutch scorers I have ever seen play, his speed and tenacity is unmatched by any player on this years team.

(3) Knoepfli was the anchor of the second powerplay unit and was the parallel to Moulson on that unit as a slot shooter on the powerplay. This years second unit is non-existent.

(4) Losing Charlie Cook's quarterbacking skill on the powerplay and his quick one-time release has hurt immensely. Although O'Byrne has tried to fill the void, I still has brain freezes when carrying the puck out of the zone and trying to keep it in the offensive zone at the point. In addition, our "offensive" defenceman have played terribly on the powerplay - Pokulok is not playing like a number 14 draft pick, Krantz is just awful. Add in Gleed, who is just mediocre. There exists no anchor at all on the powerplay.

(5) Losing Shane Hynes physical presence and his ability to wear opponents down on the board has been the biggest offensive downfall of this team so far. Hynes was able to initiate the cycle down low in powerplay opportunities. This took some stress off the point men and allowed Moulson and Cook to get open for quick strikes. Sawada & Bitz have done a terrible job filling this void. They do not have the great stick handling ability that Hynes possessed and it is showing.

(6) Jeremy Downs was a great defenseman at containing the man (or two). He cleared pucks out of the front of the net, was amazing on the penalty kill, and NEVER had defensive lapses. Seminoff was pegged as his replacement, but has had similar brain freezes as all our defensemans. I can say that the best overall defensive defenceman this season for us has been Danny Glover.

(7) I am beginning to question Matt Moulson's leadership abilities. It was apparent that Knoepfli was a spectacular leader in terms of being emotional, hard-working, and vocal. The team at times does not look inspired and it is Moulson's job as captain to make sure they are inspired.

The incoming freshman class has not had the big impact that previous classes have had. They take way too many penalties as a whole and do not show any presence on the ice. Barlow has to step up and play better offensively. Mugford is playing great except that he has to contain his emotions a little better and not take stupid penalties. Kennedy has not played much and so I have no opinion on him. Seminoff has made some questionable decisions with the puck, he seems to try to much offensively and should dump the puck in instead of carrying it in sometimes.

Physically, we are getting beaten. Cornell teams DO NOT get beaten physically lke this.

I propose that Schafer shuffle the lines up a bit. Definitely put Scott on the first line with Moulson and Bitz (they all three have great chemistry). I think that Mugford-Abbott-Abbott will be reminiscent of Hornby-Abbott-Abott line of two years ago. Maybe put Sawada-Pegs-Carefoot on the third line and Barlow-Kennedy-McCutcheon has a speedy fourth line. A little bit of grit, defense, and offense on all lines will not hurt. Another thing is too maybe insert Matt Connors or Ryan Kindret into the lineup to give some added physical presence in place of Kennedy. Defensivley, something must be done .... it is a mess right now .... I say that Krantz should be sat in favor on Davenport.

It's been said before, but we looked awful tonight. I guess every team looks awful once in a while (hopefully a long while).

Anyway, I like the idea of shaking up the lines, maybe put Scott on the first line. Maybe see how we look against Union first.

The only player who I thought looked alright tonight was Pegoraro. But I'm a bit confused on him. I'm constantly thinking that he looks really good and is playing well, yet we never seem to score with him on the ice. Given that there's more to playing well than scoring, but you gotta get goals to win and all.

Schafe will start McKee next weekend. If we're going anywhere this year, McKee's gotta be the one to carry us there. That being said, a congrats to Chabot for proving he can play at this level, and a thanks for keeping the came (some what) close.

[Q]jimmy Wrote:

I don't think we're being to hard on McKee here. He gave up a few soft goals against Michigan State and from what I hear (although I didn't see any of the games) he wasn't great in the 4 road games either. He started off slowly last year, and only began to dominate in the second half of the season, but this is ridiculous. He should start next weekend, but he should have a VERY short leash. Chabot is gonna get some playing time this season, and hopefully he's ready for it. Not the end of the world, but a terrible game for the Big Red tonight.[/q]

I think people may be being too hard on McKee, but that comes along with being a Hobey finalist. Goalies, in general, probably get a little too much credit when things go well and too much blame when things go not so well.

A 4-2 start may compare favorably to last year's 4-1-1 beginning, given that this year's team has played 2 at home and 4 on the road. However, after 6 games last year Cornell had outscored its opponents 24-7 (yep, that's 7 goals in 6 games, which included 2 games at Munn), while this year it's 19-19. Last year's team didn't give up their 19th goal until the BC game, which was their 12th game. That game was also the only time a team scored more than 3 goals against Cornell all year; this year's team has given up more than 3 goals in 2 games already. McKee's currently at 3.31 and .868%. Ouch. In any top program those numbers probably put one on the bench. It sure makes me wonder if he's ok.

[Q]johnnieag'99 Wrote:
Drugs or whatever, McKee is one more double-digit GAA game away from a looong flight back to texass. [/q]

Uh, yeah, we're not a jock factory. Getting benched or cut does not mean leaving school.

a lot of things have to happen if we're going to go anywhere this year. and mckee stepping up to the level of play we saw last year, is only one of those things, a defense in front of him that can pick up some slack, and an offense to score some goals wouldn't hurt either.

yeah the goalie is the last line of defense, and it looks bad on him if they're scoring on us all the time, but we'll never win without the scoring ourselves, where was moulson last night? definitely not making much happen....

I wasn't at the game, but 3 PPGs and 1 SHG can't all be McKee's fault, right?

The Big Red need to stay out of the penalty box, if they can't kill penalty's successfully.

[Q]French Rage Wrote:

I think to send the message that this type of play is unacceptable, Schafer should kill one of the players.[/q]

Exactly. Anything less would not be taking this one lousy game after five years of success seriously.

However, it should be McKee. We scored one. If McKee were competent, that would have been enough.

No, it's definitely not all McKee's fault - far from it. But I think Ithacat said it best:

[Q]I think people may be being too hard on McKee, but that comes along with being a Hobey finalist.[/Q]


It's not that he's not playing like a halfway decent college goalie, it's that he IS playing like a halfway decent college goalie, and not a very good one, or a great one, or a Hobey Baker deserving one. It's also scary that Chabot came in and made a few a big stops on breakaways that McKee has seemingly been unable to make this season.

But halfway decent is more than you can say for the rest of our team last night.

McKee was awful last night and Schafer putting Chabot was probably the best coaching move Schafer made his entire career. McKee does not have any focus and can't play in big games. Certainly this year he has been worse than in the past. I hope Schafer sits McKee a game next weekend. I also think Chabot deserves some credit and another chance. He was certainly tested several times and only let up one goal, which was the defense's fault for not clearing the puck on a PP. I don't entirely blame McKee for the loss (D and O were nonexistent as well) but he did give up several soft goals, something that can't continue. Very sloppy play all around.

I say next game he sits O'Byrne as well -- how many times did he get beat and have to take a stupid penalty?

I can't believe I'm typing this, but I agree with Facetimer. Not about sitting McKee -- if we're going to do anything nationally this year, McKee is the guy and he simply needs to reappear, period -- but about sitting O'Byrne, and maybe for a lot longer than one night.

We have been forgiving O'Byrne for bad positioning and dumb penalties for three seasons, now. As near as I can tell, he hasn't learned *anything* in all that time with Schafer, who has worked defensive miracles with so many other blueliners. Either he doesn't listen, or he just can't convert potential into results, or he gets excited and forgets everything when he's on the ice, but he is often a liability out there. Krantz also makes some really scary defensive mistakes, but he is in effect a trailing forward and so that's the price of the ticket. But O'Byrne is supposed to be the bruising, terrifying, take you into the corner and you never come back out guy. If he isn't being that guy, then put in the 7th D and start developing him for the future.

I thought O'Byrne was alright last night, with the exception of getting beaten on so many breakaways. But that was the fault of the whole defense (O'Byrne included, of course.) To me, on a night when almost everyone played awfully, O'Byrne was merely bad.

He hasn't improved as much as we might hope since his first year, but he's one of the best we have now. That could just mean we're in a lot of trouble.

I still have faith in McKee. None of last night's goals were really soft. He could have stopped a few, especially if he could cut down on rebound chances, but we need the defense to help out there as well. I think a lot of the problem is in our defense, especially in that we've lost four forwards who ranged from solid to great on defense. We don't have enough defensive help coming from our forwards right now. Still, McKee isn't playing as well as last year.

And, from what I noticed at the Red-White game (though McKee supposedly was tired from practicing all day, not the normal pre-game routine), Chabot is much better than McKee on shootout/breakaway situations. McKee needs to step up on these. Move forward a bit, challenge the shooter, stop letting him have time to make moves.

ouch, i was on call last night and called my wife to say hi and for the score and was shocked. let us hope they learn from this and use it as a catalyst for the rest of the season

No reason to get so down, my take is the team was just dog tired after a hard fought Harvard game. Harvard is a FAST team and we kept up with them Friday. It could even be argued that we were faster. Last night, our guys looked flat footed most of the night. Dartmouth was much faster than we were.

The officiating was bad, but equally bad. Very disappointing to see us fail to get anything going on our two 5x3 opportunities. Our PP is suspect. We rely too much on ticky tac along the boards. Dartmouth had us scouted, and jumped in with two defenders. Very rarely did we get any kind of cycle going.

As the night progressed, we got more deliberate and slower in our passes. The level of offensive play spiraled downward. On defense Chabot played very well , and the defense seemed to come alive in front of him.

Mckee should and will be back. We know he can play, and he just needs to do what he has done in past years. Our D needs to clear the puck, and keep the scrums from clogging the area in front of the net.

Dartmouth's defense rattled us on offense. We were constantly hounded and we failed to thwart the pressure through passing.


Chris

USCHO front page: "Cornell hit the breaks in a 6-1 loss to Dartmouth"

Cornell sucked across the board. Things that they have been bad at all season were just brutally exposed. This is not a physical team, at least nothing near to what it has been the last few years. Forwards have not been finishing their checks at all in the last four games. Dartmouth is the most physically imposing team in the conference and were the only team that could match up physically with Cornell when the last four years when they have been extremely physical. In this regard (and many others), they straight up embarrassed Cornell, dominating the physical aspect more than I have seen a team dominate Cornell in this area in a long time. The D is nothing compared to what it was last year right now. O'Byrne, Glover, and Gleed have been decent but Pokuluk, Krantz, and Seminoff have been awful. I don't care if Krantz scored on Friday, he still made a handful of major mistakes in that game and a ton more against Dartmouth. Pokuluk was a different player against Yale than he was this weekend. McKee seems to have no confidence. He isn't making any big saves. Sure, he's being left out to dry, but a goalie of his reputation and ability absolutely needs to make big saves and timely saves. He hasn't done either with any regularity so far this season. He isn't an aggressive goalie, but particularly on breakaway and point blank situations, he never challanges the shooter, making it a lot easier for them. Leadership, leadership, leadership. Saw zero intensity against Dartmouth and very little frustration after they sucked in the first period and still no frustration after they sucked even more in the second period.
Yes, it's only one loss and this is still a 4-2 team, but Cornell has not played great to this point. I thought their best game by far was the first one against Michigan State. They have played very inconsistently since then. Luckily, the game at Dartmouth last year was their worst game of the season, so hopefully that is the case this year. Even during that time (4 game winless streak last season), Cornell's defensive scheme and goaltender were very good. I was more concerned about offense last year at this time. Now, I think they can get the goals, but the defensive scheme is the worst it has been in several years for Cornell. It will certainly help to get back home for five out of the next six. I liked the old ECAC schedule when every other weekend would be home/away rather than these successive weekends. It just doesn't make sense to do it this way with distinct disadvantages to teams who have to play four straight on the road early in the season.
Everything being said, I picked Dartmouth to win the conference before the season and even though they sucked early, they really impressed me last night. In fact, they reminded me a lot of Cornell last season, physicall dominating, and winning every single battle for loose pucks.. They are a very good team and will be right there with Cornell and Colgate when all is said and done. Cornell was obviously horrendous last night, but Dartmouth deserves credit because they played extremely well. I really look forward to them coming to Lynah later in the season.

[Q]cmoberg Wrote:
As the night progressed, we got more deliberate and slower in our passes..[]..we failed to thwart the pressure through passing.
[/q]

This makes it sound like we were actually passing. We must have connected on some passes, but honestly, we kept on whiffing, sending the puck the wrong way, the wrong speed, directly to the opposing player, not catching the pass, losing sight of the puck, ending up clueless with the puck between our feet, etc. The (very) few times we managed to set up a power play cycle, nearly every pass would be botched - making it that much easier for Dartmouth to get in position and block the shooting lane.

I realize that they know better than me what shots are even possible, but guys, the puck has to get relatively close to the net for it to have a chance to go in. We kept on throwing the puck into the offensive end, trying (and frequently failing) to catch it on the way out, and sometimes trying to tie it up against the boards before it went back to our defensive end. We needed to shoot.

On the bright side...Louis was a vast improvement over Dave. The third period was slightly better than the first two - or at least, we started catching up in SOG.

Better rethink sitting OB.

Through 6 games, he leads the team in plus/minus at +4.

Not just the D; the team.

Next best is Cam Abbott at +2. No one else better than +1.

OB seems good for one or two blunders/flubs/muffs/whatever per game, which are always blatant, so that even the newbies notice them. However, he is doing FAR more good on the ice than harm.

Happy to have him out there.

Haven't read everything and didn't see someone suggest O'Byrne be sat, but he has been far and away Cornell's best defenseman this season. Glover is second and Gleed is third. I would even venture to say O'Byrne has been the team's best player to this point. Definitely the best he has played in his career. If you want to sit someone, then point at Krantz or Seminoff. Unfortunately they don't have the depth to sit any forwards.

i'm with ari on this one. i have never been a big OB fan before this year, but i think he is playing well for us, on D and on the PP.

most of the penalties assigned to him last night were : (1) after the game was way out of hand, (2) the result of poor officiating, in my opinion. he has managed to stay out of the box this year, i think.

A couple thoughts. O'byrne has definitely been much better this year, and a lot more disciplined. I still get nervous every time he skates the puck up from behind the net after that goal last year, but from a defensive perspective I feel more comfortable with him on the ice. Seminoff seems to be the second coming of O'byrne, stupid penalties and stupid mistakes.

On the subject of McKee, I was watching him during the warmups before the game last night and he just looked very uncomfortable out there. There were several routine saves that he just blatantly missed. At one point he went for a glove save and the puck went right below his glove and he looked at his glove as if it had a hole in it. When I saw that I had a bad feeling about his play in that game, and I guess I turned out to be right. I don't think hes playing terribly, but I don't think he is feeling his best out there in net. Also, there are way too many times that we have blocked a shot right in front of Mckee, or he made a save and the puck just sits there in the middle of a scrum and our defense just looks totally lost. No one has any idea where the puck is, and the other team ends up finding it first and scoring. We need to work on clearing the loose pucks in front of the net, and clearing the opponents from the front of the net. I think we miss downs and cook a whole lot more than hynes this year.

[Q]Jacob '06 Wrote:

A couple thoughts. O'byrne has definitely been much better this year, and a lot more disciplined. I still get nervous every time he skates the puck up from behind the net after that goal last year, but from a defensive perspective I feel more comfortable with him on the ice. Seminoff seems to be the second coming of O'byrne, stupid penalties and stupid mistakes.

On the subject of McKee, I was watching him during the warmups before the game last night and he just looked very uncomfortable out there. There were several routine saves that he just blatantly missed. At one point he went for a glove save and the puck went right below his glove and he looked at his glove as if it had a hole in it. When I saw that I had a bad feeling about his play in that game, and I guess I turned out to be right. I don't think hes playing terribly, but I don't think he is feeling his best out there in net. Also, there are way too many times that we have blocked a shot right in front of Mckee, or he made a save and the puck just sits there in the middle of a scrum and our defense just looks totally lost. No one has any idea where the puck is, and the other team ends up finding it first and scoring. We need to work on clearing the loose pucks in front of the net, and clearing the opponents from the front of the net. I think we miss downs and cook a whole lot more than hynes this year.[/q]


Right now, I think we miss all of the guys lost after last season. The forwards have not been remotely physical, so we miss Hynes, Varteressian, Iggulden, and Knoefpli. The defense has been soft and brutal coming out of the zone s so we miss Downs and Cook. The losses of each player have not been replaced and that right now is the difference. In particular, the leadership and character of those players has been a glaring deficiency.

[Q]calgARI '07 Wrote:


Right now, I think we miss all of the guys lost after last season. The forwards have not been remotely physical, so we miss Hynes, Varteressian, Iggulden, and Knoefpli. The defense has been soft and brutal coming out of the zone s so we miss Downs and Cook. The losses of each player have not been replaced and that right now is the difference. In particular, the leadership and character of those players has been a glaring deficiency.[/q]

Okay guys, indulge me to share my thoughts, if you will. I too feel the frustration of last night's loss and am searching for the same answers that you all are. What Ari wrote above is true, but in those 6 names...excluding Hynes who would have been a senior this year... ALL were SENIORS with 4 years of Cornell BIG RED hockey under their belts and with 4 years of Coach Schafer's training and discipline as well.

How often did we hear last year that it took Charlie several games at the beginning of the season before he got his "A" game going?

How often did we speak about how much improved Varteressian, Iggulden and Knoefli had become from their freshman and sophmore years? Some of these players saw very little ice time til their junior and senior years.

How much if any have the new NHL rules impacted the thinking and playing of the D, especially in front of the net?

Most importantly, I think what we're losing sight of is the fact that we're referring to all of the players as individuals. As far as I'm concerned, hockey is a TEAM sport and the TEAM is comprised of 5 players + a goalie. Six individuals will not win any game but these same 6 individuals who train, practice, play and gel together over time as a TEAM will win most games.

We still have a lot of young blood out there who have not had the luxury of 4 years of maturing together as a TEAM. We can not make the mistake of continually comparing this year's team to last year. Last year...as well as every prior TEAM, is history...and will never repeat itself. Let's continue to have confidence in the coaching staff's decisions and selections. The season is still very young and given time, I'm sure we'll see the TEAM come together this year as they've done in the past.

Having said that, for those of us who will be fortunate enough to attend next weekend's games, let's make rafters at Lynah shake like never before in support of the BIG RED TEAM.


LGR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

when an entire team looks sluggish and off, you have to look to someone on the team to be a base of support to get everyone else going. for us that would have to be either Moulson or McKee. moulson has a big target on his back. the other team is intimately aware of when he is out there, and will do whatever they can to keep him from taking his shot. between that and mckee not playing his game, we dont have our foundation to build up the rest of the team. i dont know what to do about moulson, because i dont think its his fault: i think its the other teams pointing him out. if mckee can get back on his game, that will give us our foundation, but we do need mckee.

i agree with everyone who says its not all about mckee, the rest of the team is playing like crap too (with some exceptions... topher.) but if mckee gets back on, the rest will follow.

Cornell should not have lost so badly. Still ...

it's one game

it's early

it's the fourth straight game on the road

we have the season's toughest road trip out of the way

even Brodeur has bad games and gets pulled (occasionally)

bookies collapse runaway scores because they're not they're not representative in determining future outcomes.

It's okay to be concerned. It's a little early to head for the exits.

A few things:

We lost away November Dartmouth games in 02-03 and 04-05, and I think we ended up pretty good.

The reffing. I'm not gonna say we lost because of the reffing, we lost on our own. But the reffing was comical at times, and you got the feeling that they werent paying attention that well, which may have lent to penalties against us. The two I remeber were a) the puck going into the netting above the goal and no whistle and b) the puck hitting the head of a player on the D bench and no whistle.

[Q]We lost away November Dartmouth games in 02-03 and 04-05, and I think we ended up pretty good.[/Q]

Both those games were hard fought one goal games though (the 5-2 loss in 02-03 had 2 ENG). You could come out of those games with the feeling that even when the team was "off" they were still in it until the end. Still, it is just one game in November.

I know exactly what to say: "Thank God I went to the wedding in Saratoga Springs instead."

What Cornell hockey needs, clearly, is more nine-piece R&B/disco bands and fresh sushi stations.

Beeeej

Resorting to a dump and chase while on a 5 on 3 is just ridiculous.

"Resorting" to a dump-and-chase is the only thing you can do when the PK is standing everyone up on the blueline. There's no room to skate through them. Find something else you don't understand to complain about. Like goalies playing the puck behind the net or shooting on the PP for the sake of shooting.

[Q]Trotsky Wrote:
We have been forgiving O'Byrne ... for three seasons, now.[/q]
Careful where you point that "we" now...

You don't get a minus for a goal given up to a power play. Or when you're in the box, creating one. +/- is a stupid stat.

[Q]calgARI '07 Wrote:
I would even venture to say O'Byrne has been the team's best player to this point.[/q]





Oh wait... you're serious.

Bill, if you ever compare the Big Red to the Devils again, in part, or in whole, I will block every subnet you every posted from at the firewall.

[Q]CowbellGuy Wrote:

You don't get a minus for a goal given up to a power play. Or when you're in the box, creating one. +/- is a stupid stat.[/q]Oh come on. It's not a stupid stat. It's just not a universal good/bad stat. As with all statistics it has to be considered intelligently in the context of other statistics and knowledge about the player/team.

[Q]Trotsky Wrote:

I can't believe I'm typing this, but I agree with Facetimer. Not about sitting McKee -- if we're going to do anything nationally this year, McKee is the guy and he simply needs to reappear, period -- but about sitting O'Byrne, and maybe for a lot longer than one night.

We have been forgiving O'Byrne for bad positioning and dumb penalties for three seasons, now. As near as I can tell, he hasn't learned *anything* in all that time with Schafer, who has worked defensive miracles with so many other blueliners. Either he doesn't listen, or he just can't convert potential into results, or he gets excited and forgets everything when he's on the ice, but he is often a liability out there. Krantz also makes some really scary defensive mistakes, but he is in effect a trailing forward and so that's the price of the ticket. But O'Byrne is supposed to be the bruising, terrifying, take you into the corner and you never come back out guy. If he isn't being that guy, then put in the 7th D and start developing him for the future.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 11/13/05 12:13PM by Trotsky.[/q]

I completely disagree about sitting O'Byrne. The penalties I remember him taking stopped a breakaway(s). Now, yes, his poor positioning lead to some of these breakaways but at least he prevented the breakaways from becoming goals--which I can't say for some of our other defencemen. Also, he was the only player on our team who consistently finished his checks all night long.

i think O'B could be a very good d-man (obviously this is not news to anyone) but i think he’s yet to even come close to fulfilling the potential Coach and the Habs saw. we’re all collectively still waiting for him to "show up." this guy could be a huge plus for this team and a defensive stalwart. but when you factor in his fumbles and bumbles and all his needless penalties (your usuale table mr. o'byrne?) he's about a sum total of naught ... even that might be a stretch. i hope he shows up this weekend and for the rest of the season, make that two … we could sure use him out there.

[Q]CowbellGuy Wrote:

You don't get a minus for a goal given up to a power play. Or when you're in the box, creating one. +/- is a stupid stat.[/q]


No, nor do you get a plus for being on the ice for a power play goal, where OB has been 8 times this year. We have only scored 9 ppg's, and he has 2 of them.

Courtesy of the ECAC box scores, Ryan O'Byrne has been on the ice for 16 of Cornell's 19 goals this season, including 7 even strength goals and 1 shg in addition to the ppg's. This is not by accident. In the 6 games he already has 2 goals after only scoring 3 total in the previous 2 years.

An argument could be made that 6 games isn't a large enough sample to prove much of anything, but leading the team in +/- should be enough to suggest RETHINKING the idea of sitting OB, which is what I did in response to two posters who recommended that.

In the interest of presenting both sides, he's been on the ice for 7 of the opponents' 19 goals - 2 even strength, 3 on the penalty kill and for 2 shg. He's taken 7 penalties; our opponents have not scored this year while he's been in the box.

Clearly Mike Schafer thinks he belongs there. And btw, he also thinks +/- is an important stat.

I will therefore stick with my own personal opinion that I am happier having him there than not.

To each his own.

What we really want is for O'Byrne to hit that sweet spot of performance where he plays at a high level and contributes greatly to the team, but not so highly that Montreal pushes hard to sign him next summer. I'll leave it to folks who have seen him play recently to decide how close he is to that point.

That sounds good. Then again I would take it if he and others raised their games to the point that the team wins a National Championship, even if it meant several of them signed this summer.

I guess I can't argue too much with that!

Actually he's stopped quite a few breakaways. He's also kept us in several games (1st MSU, Brown, Harvard) with some spectacular saves. I think the problem is much more an inexperienced defense. We really miss Cook and Downs.

[Q]35-Year Go Big Red Fan Wrote:

Actually he's stopped quite a few breakaways. He's also kept us in several games (1st MSU, Brown, Harvard) with some spectacular saves. I think the problem is much more an inexperienced defense. We really miss Cook and Downs.[/q]

I have a real hard time believing McKee "kept us in" the Harvard game. I was right in front of the 2nd Harvard goal and I'd need to see a video replay to convince me the goal was deflected. It was a soft goal. I think McKee made about 2 big saves in the game. He had a great glove save from point blank range in the 3rd and another big blocker save that he quickly covered up. I've been to the exibition, both MSU games, Harvard and Dartmouth and I can't recall McKee making a save on a breakaway (but as I type this I have a faint recollection of him making a kick save on a breakaway at some point this season?). He made plenty of breakaway saves last year. But that was last year. He has shown flashes of brilliance (1st game MSU, 3rd period of Yale game--according to most accounts) but has otherwise been mediocre. I think our defensive woes have been a combination of poor positional "D" AND McKee.