[OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter
Posted by CM cWo 44
[OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter
Posted by: CM cWo 44 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: November 07, 2005 04:45PM
For those who may have missed it, Chris Berman made a Cornell reference on Sportcenter's Top 10 Plays of the Week last night
In praising Brown (Berman's Alma Mater) Running Back Nick Hartigan for becoming only the 4th player in over 120 years of Ivy League Football to rush for 4000 career yards, Berman went on to say that Hartigan would never catch...
"Legendary running back Ed Marinaro from Cornell, who in the 1970's, on the frozen tundra of Schoellkopf Field in Ithaca, NY, rushed for more than 4800 yards. A record that may never be broken"
--> Just thought it was cool considering they showed footage of Schoellkopf from the early 70's, plus it must be noted considering Cornell is mentioned on Sportscenter about once every 3 years. Here's to hoping that we'll be prominantly featured come early April.
In praising Brown (Berman's Alma Mater) Running Back Nick Hartigan for becoming only the 4th player in over 120 years of Ivy League Football to rush for 4000 career yards, Berman went on to say that Hartigan would never catch...
"Legendary running back Ed Marinaro from Cornell, who in the 1970's, on the frozen tundra of Schoellkopf Field in Ithaca, NY, rushed for more than 4800 yards. A record that may never be broken"
--> Just thought it was cool considering they showed footage of Schoellkopf from the early 70's, plus it must be noted considering Cornell is mentioned on Sportscenter about once every 3 years. Here's to hoping that we'll be prominantly featured come early April.
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter
Posted by: Josh '99 (---.nyc.res.rr.com)
Date: November 07, 2005 04:53PM
[Q]CM cWo 44 Wrote:
For those who may have missed it, Chris Berman made a Cornell reference on Sportcenter's Top 10 Plays of the Week last night
In praising Brown (Berman's Alma Mater) Running Back Nick Hartigan for becoming only the 4th player in over 120 years of Ivy League Football to rush for 4000 career yards, Berman went on to say that Hartigan would never catch...
"Legendary running back Ed Marinaro from Cornell, who in the 1970's, on the frozen tundra of Schoellkopf Field in Ithaca, NY, rushed for more than 4800 yards. A record that may never be broken"[/q]... except that Chad Levitt would've broken it if he hadn't gotten hurt in the second-to-last game of his senior year. (Which isn't to take away from Marinaro, of course, especially given that he racked up all those yards over *three* years of varisty eligibility, but I'm just saying that Levitt demonstrates that it's within the realm of possibility that someone might break Marinaro's record at some point.)
Even so, of course, the mention on SportsCenter is great.
For those who may have missed it, Chris Berman made a Cornell reference on Sportcenter's Top 10 Plays of the Week last night
In praising Brown (Berman's Alma Mater) Running Back Nick Hartigan for becoming only the 4th player in over 120 years of Ivy League Football to rush for 4000 career yards, Berman went on to say that Hartigan would never catch...
"Legendary running back Ed Marinaro from Cornell, who in the 1970's, on the frozen tundra of Schoellkopf Field in Ithaca, NY, rushed for more than 4800 yards. A record that may never be broken"[/q]... except that Chad Levitt would've broken it if he hadn't gotten hurt in the second-to-last game of his senior year. (Which isn't to take away from Marinaro, of course, especially given that he racked up all those yards over *three* years of varisty eligibility, but I'm just saying that Levitt demonstrates that it's within the realm of possibility that someone might break Marinaro's record at some point.)
Even so, of course, the mention on SportsCenter is great.
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date: November 07, 2005 04:55PM
[Q]CM cWo 44 Wrote:
"Legendary running back Ed Marinaro from Cornell, who in the 1970's, on the frozen tundra of Schoellkopf Field in Ithaca, NY, rushed for more than 4800 yards. A record that may never be broken"
[/q]
I think it was 4715. And keep in mind that was done in three seasons, with no automatic clock stoppage after first downs (I think the latter is correct).
"Legendary running back Ed Marinaro from Cornell, who in the 1970's, on the frozen tundra of Schoellkopf Field in Ithaca, NY, rushed for more than 4800 yards. A record that may never be broken"
[/q]
I think it was 4715. And keep in mind that was done in three seasons, with no automatic clock stoppage after first downs (I think the latter is correct).
___________________________
Al DeFlorio '65
Al DeFlorio '65
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter
Posted by: ben03 (---.rochester.res.rr.com)
Date: November 07, 2005 05:31PM
you are correct sir, 4715 it is. 
[www.ivyleaguesports.com]
[www.ivyleaguesports.com]
___________________________
Let's GO Red!!!
Let's GO Red!!!
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter
Posted by: KeithK (---.external.lmco.com)
Date: November 07, 2005 05:49PM
Quick question: it was still a frozen tundra when Marinaro played, right? When did the fake stuff go in?
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter
Posted by: dadeo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: November 07, 2005 05:53PM
well if anything, global warming means that it was more of a frozen tundra (in ithaca, im sure he was referring to, not the field) back then.
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter
Posted by: Lowell '99 (---.c3-0.avec-ubr13.nyr-avec.ny.cable.r)
Date: November 07, 2005 05:55PM
Turf was installed in Schoellkopf in 1971. I believe it was a reaction to allowing women into the Big Red Band one year earlier. 
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (---.rgv.res.rr.com)
Date: November 07, 2005 06:01PM
Berman, a Brown alum, is pretty good about giving props to the Ivies.
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter
Posted by: KeithK (---.external.lmco.com)
Date: November 07, 2005 06:21PM
[Q]well if anything, global warming means that it was more of a frozen tundra (in ithaca, im sure he was referring to, not the field) back then. [/q]Berman's phrase "the frozen tundra" originally referred specifically to the field at Lambeau Field in Green Bay.
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter
Posted by: jkahn (216.146.73.---)
Date: November 07, 2005 06:26PM
[Q]LowellFrank Wrote:
Turf was installed in Schoellkopf in 1971. [/q]
That sounds about right - which means 2 years on mostly mud (it always seemed to rain on Saturdays) and one year on Polyturf.
Turf was installed in Schoellkopf in 1971. [/q]
That sounds about right - which means 2 years on mostly mud (it always seemed to rain on Saturdays) and one year on Polyturf.
___________________________
Jeff Kahn '70 '72
Jeff Kahn '70 '72
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: November 07, 2005 07:03PM
It was 4715 yards.
It was done in 3 not 4 years.
It was done with 9 not 10 games.
It was an average of 209 yards per season senior year (1881 over 9 games). The previous best was OJ's ~175 yards per game over 1 season. Had he played 10 games all three years he would have been the first guy to 5,000 yards as well as the first to 4,000 (Steve Owens of Oklahoma had ~3867).
It really was amazing. Marinaro just blew past the existing records.
For all Marinaro accomplished, there were still some of those almosts ...
... almost won the Heisman
... almost gave Cornell an undisputed Ivy title (Cornell lost to Dartmouth because the best receiver was sick and Dartmouth,which lost to somebody else, put like 9 men on the line each play)
... and if ESPN wanted to do another mention of Cornell, why not the trick kick play at Princeton. We had a zillion neat trick plays, most of them worked, but we forgot to run the trick plays the concluded in the end zone.
It was done in 3 not 4 years.
It was done with 9 not 10 games.
It was an average of 209 yards per season senior year (1881 over 9 games). The previous best was OJ's ~175 yards per game over 1 season. Had he played 10 games all three years he would have been the first guy to 5,000 yards as well as the first to 4,000 (Steve Owens of Oklahoma had ~3867).
It really was amazing. Marinaro just blew past the existing records.
For all Marinaro accomplished, there were still some of those almosts ...
... almost won the Heisman
... almost gave Cornell an undisputed Ivy title (Cornell lost to Dartmouth because the best receiver was sick and Dartmouth,which lost to somebody else, put like 9 men on the line each play)
... and if ESPN wanted to do another mention of Cornell, why not the trick kick play at Princeton. We had a zillion neat trick plays, most of them worked, but we forgot to run the trick plays the concluded in the end zone.
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter
Posted by: Jordan 04 (---.nyc.res.rr.com)
Date: November 07, 2005 07:11PM
[Q]jkahn Wrote:
LowellFrank Wrote:
Turf was installed in Schoellkopf in 1971. [/Q]
That sounds about right - which means 2 years on mostly mud (it always seemed to rain on Saturdays) and one year on Polyturf.[/q]
Uh-oh...I sense a really bad Commencement speech about to break out!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2005 07:12PM by Jordan 04.
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter
Posted by: Rich S (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: November 08, 2005 02:22AM
yes he is...even when they're not correct, i.e., his reference a few years back to the "packed crowds" at Brown hockey games when he was there.
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter
Posted by: Rich S (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: November 08, 2005 02:23AM
Bill,
I have forgotten how close he came to winning the Heisman?
I have forgotten how close he came to winning the Heisman?
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter
Posted by: Beeeej (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: November 08, 2005 02:55AM
What an amazing coincidence that you attended every game he did!
Beeeej
Beeeej
___________________________
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date: November 08, 2005 07:03AM
[Q]Beeeej Wrote:
What an amazing coincidence that you attended every game he did!
Beeeej[/q]
I can say first-hand that Cornell-Brown games at Meehan were sold out in the late 60s and early 70s.
What an amazing coincidence that you attended every game he did!
Beeeej[/q]
I can say first-hand that Cornell-Brown games at Meehan were sold out in the late 60s and early 70s.
___________________________
Al DeFlorio '65
Al DeFlorio '65
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter
Posted by: Josh 03 (---.rtp.epa.gov)
Date: November 08, 2005 09:22AM
Cornell basketball plays the first NCAA DI game of the season tonight at 6pm against St. Francis at the Carrier Dome (part of the Coaches vs Cancer Classic). It was cool to see their name in a DC paper this morning. Though I'm sure the Syracuse game that follows will get all of the Sportscenter attention, maybe CU will get their 2nd mention of the week.
[Q]CM cWo 44 Wrote:
--> Just thought it was cool considering they showed footage of Schoellkopf from the early 70's, plus it must be noted considering Cornell is mentioned on Sportscenter about once every 3 years. Here's to hoping that we'll be prominantly featured come early April.[/q]
[Q]CM cWo 44 Wrote:
--> Just thought it was cool considering they showed footage of Schoellkopf from the early 70's, plus it must be noted considering Cornell is mentioned on Sportscenter about once every 3 years. Here's to hoping that we'll be prominantly featured come early April.[/q]
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter
Posted by: Hillel Hoffmann (---.usb.temple.edu)
Date: November 08, 2005 10:19AM
[Q]Rich S Wrote: I have forgotten how close he came to winning the Heisman?[/q]
Really close. He was edged out by Auburn QB (and future Falcons flameout) Pat Sullivan. Still pisses me off.
Really close. He was edged out by Auburn QB (and future Falcons flameout) Pat Sullivan. Still pisses me off.
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter - recalling Marinaro
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: November 08, 2005 12:24PM
[Q]Rich S Wrote: Bill, I have forgotten how close he came to winning the Heisman?[/q]Sorry, I forgot this was a serious question whose answer isn't etched into the minds of every football fan in the Northeast. Ed Marinaro '72 dominated football rushing in 1971, breaking the career rushing record by ~1,000 yards (as I mentioned before, had he played 10 game seasons, he would have been the first player to rush for 4,000 and 5,000 yards in a career), and improving on OJ's single season per-game rushing record by 35 yards (from like 175 to 209 per game), etcetera. Dominant even if he was an Ivy Leaguer.
When Sports Illustrated put him on the cover that fall hightlighting "A Rampage of Running Backs" (and yes I believe Cornell did win the next weekend - the 24-14 Dartmouth loss wasn't till later), the story mentioned doubts about the level of the Cornell competition, but one pro scout was quoted as saying, "That's a lot of yards even against a tackling dummy." The other contender was Auburn QB Pat Sullivan, who had an All-America year and was probably the best of the QBs. He did set that year a record for most TDs accounted for by a QB (passed for and ran for).
In the Heisman voting, and here my recall is a bit hazy, Sullivan edged Marinaro because:
- Marinaro won among voters in the East and Sullivan was runner up or third.
- Marinaro and Sullivan were close in the other regions. I think Ed was ahead though.
- Sullivan won in the South where Marinaro was left off many of the ballots. If Marinaro got as many second/third place votes in the South as Sullivan got in the East, Marinaro would have won. In other words, Johnny Reb with the typewriter was still ticked about Sherman's march down south and more lately those pesky civil rights workers, and this set matters straight.
And that was pretty much the last gasp of Ivy League football greatness before the Ivies were demoted to Division IAA at the close of the decade. And further demoted by the Ivy presidents who make football the one sport where Ivy teams can't compete in an NCAA playoff. (The best Ivy school many years would have a chance to win given title games have been played in recent years by Colgate, UMass, Delaware, etcetera).
Critics will point out that Marinaro had merely an okay pro career as proof he didn't deserve to win. Marinaro did run into a string of injuries and played initially for a running back-heavy team, the Vikings. Given his NJ heritage, it's too bad he didn't play his career (all of it) with the Jets or Giants. Pat Sullivan played several years in the NFL but never was one of the all-time greats, either. Sadly, Sullivan was diagnosed recently with mouth cancer from decades of using smokeless tobacco. He's a legend down south and deserves better.
At the time, the Heisman was a huge award and people actually cared about it and talked about it. Sort of like the Miss America pageant.
Marinaro on the cover of Sports Illustrated in 1971. Note simplicity
of the uniforms. At least Big Red hockey carries on the tradition.
When Sports Illustrated put him on the cover that fall hightlighting "A Rampage of Running Backs" (and yes I believe Cornell did win the next weekend - the 24-14 Dartmouth loss wasn't till later), the story mentioned doubts about the level of the Cornell competition, but one pro scout was quoted as saying, "That's a lot of yards even against a tackling dummy." The other contender was Auburn QB Pat Sullivan, who had an All-America year and was probably the best of the QBs. He did set that year a record for most TDs accounted for by a QB (passed for and ran for).
In the Heisman voting, and here my recall is a bit hazy, Sullivan edged Marinaro because:
- Marinaro won among voters in the East and Sullivan was runner up or third.
- Marinaro and Sullivan were close in the other regions. I think Ed was ahead though.
- Sullivan won in the South where Marinaro was left off many of the ballots. If Marinaro got as many second/third place votes in the South as Sullivan got in the East, Marinaro would have won. In other words, Johnny Reb with the typewriter was still ticked about Sherman's march down south and more lately those pesky civil rights workers, and this set matters straight.
And that was pretty much the last gasp of Ivy League football greatness before the Ivies were demoted to Division IAA at the close of the decade. And further demoted by the Ivy presidents who make football the one sport where Ivy teams can't compete in an NCAA playoff. (The best Ivy school many years would have a chance to win given title games have been played in recent years by Colgate, UMass, Delaware, etcetera).
Critics will point out that Marinaro had merely an okay pro career as proof he didn't deserve to win. Marinaro did run into a string of injuries and played initially for a running back-heavy team, the Vikings. Given his NJ heritage, it's too bad he didn't play his career (all of it) with the Jets or Giants. Pat Sullivan played several years in the NFL but never was one of the all-time greats, either. Sadly, Sullivan was diagnosed recently with mouth cancer from decades of using smokeless tobacco. He's a legend down south and deserves better.
At the time, the Heisman was a huge award and people actually cared about it and talked about it. Sort of like the Miss America pageant.
Marinaro on the cover of Sports Illustrated in 1971. Note simplicity
of the uniforms. At least Big Red hockey carries on the tradition.
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter
Posted by: jkahn (216.146.73.---)
Date: November 08, 2005 01:55PM
[Q]Rich S Wrote: I have forgotten how close he came to winning the Heisman?[/Q]
Also, at that point all ballots had to be mailed before what was the final Saturday of the football season, with a few scheduled games, one of which was Auburn-Alabama. Sullivan threw five interceptions on national TV, and there was a lot of conjecture that if ballots were due a week later, Marinaro would've won it.
Also, at that point all ballots had to be mailed before what was the final Saturday of the football season, with a few scheduled games, one of which was Auburn-Alabama. Sullivan threw five interceptions on national TV, and there was a lot of conjecture that if ballots were due a week later, Marinaro would've won it.
___________________________
Jeff Kahn '70 '72
Jeff Kahn '70 '72
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter - recalling Marinaro
Posted by: Hillel Hoffmann (---.usb.temple.edu)
Date: November 08, 2005 01:59PM
Yes, the Cornell uniforms from that era are the archetype.
Speaking of archetypes: Every time I see Harvard's khaki football pants, I laugh. What a perfect symbol.
Speaking of archetypes: Every time I see Harvard's khaki football pants, I laugh. What a perfect symbol.
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter - recalling Marinaro
Posted by: KeithK (---.external.lmco.com)
Date: November 08, 2005 02:38PM
[Q]Speaking of archetypes: Every time I see Harvard's khaki football pants, I laugh. What a perfect symbol.[/q]OMG, please tell me you're joking about that. Ack.
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter - recalling Marinaro
Posted by: Hillel Hoffmann (---.usb.temple.edu)
Date: November 08, 2005 02:49PM
[Q]KeithK Wrote:
Speaking of archetypes: Every time I see Harvard's khaki football pants, I laugh. What a perfect symbol.[/Q]
OMG, please tell me you're joking about that. Ack.
[/q]
Yes, Harvard's laughable khaki football pants are a perfect symbol ... of hidebound, waspy lameness.
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter - recalling Marinaro
Posted by: Trotsky (---.frdrmd.adelphia.net)
Date: November 08, 2005 04:05PM
[Q]billhoward Wrote:
Marinaro on the cover of Sports Illustrated in 1971. Note simplicity
of the uniforms. At least Big Red hockey carries on the tradition.[/q]
Wow, that uniform is sharp, especially the C on the helmet! It would be great if they returned to those.
Marinaro on the cover of Sports Illustrated in 1971. Note simplicity
of the uniforms. At least Big Red hockey carries on the tradition.[/q]
Wow, that uniform is sharp, especially the C on the helmet! It would be great if they returned to those.
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter - recalling Marinaro
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: November 08, 2005 04:48PM
[Q]Trotsky Wrote:
billhoward Wrote: Marinaro on the cover of Sports Illustrated in 1971. Note simplicity of the uniforms. At least Big Red hockey carries on the tradition.[/Q]Wow, that uniform is sharp, especially the C on the helmet! It would be great if they returned to those.[/q]What you don't see from the cover photo, my friend -- remember this was the '70s -- is the bell-bottom uniform pants and platform cleats.
It's not a big thing for most fans, but the jersey numbers were big and easy to for photographers to ID. Putting numbers on the helmet has helped in recent years. It's always scary when a team decides it wants jersey numbers only on the backs.
If you want to see what the hockey team's pants looked like in the 1970s, you can get a very, very good idea by looking at their current pants. I bet Coach Schafer's golden retriever can tell which pair Mike wore.
And to clear up an ugly rumor once and for all: The pictures I took for the Sun of streakers during that era never were turned over to the football coaches for examination and prosecution. Or Dick Bertrand. We were early believers in "what goes on here, stays here." It is true my girlfriend's sorority had proposed a charity event where they'd black out the faces and see how many guys the various sororities could identify ...
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter - recalling Marinaro
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date: November 08, 2005 06:42PM
[Q]Hillel Hoffmann Wrote:
Yes, the Cornell uniforms from that era are the archetype.
Speaking of archetypes: Every time I see Harvard's khaki football pants, I laugh. What a perfect symbol.[/q]
Back in the day, neutral-colored football pants were not uncommon. Yale wore gold pants at home in the 50s and Cornell wore grey pants at Schoellkopf during the Tom Harp era, 1961-1965.
Yes, the Cornell uniforms from that era are the archetype.
Speaking of archetypes: Every time I see Harvard's khaki football pants, I laugh. What a perfect symbol.[/q]
Back in the day, neutral-colored football pants were not uncommon. Yale wore gold pants at home in the 50s and Cornell wore grey pants at Schoellkopf during the Tom Harp era, 1961-1965.
___________________________
Al DeFlorio '65
Al DeFlorio '65
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter
Posted by: Scott Kominkiewicz (---.nwrk.east.verizon.net)
Date: November 08, 2005 08:23PM
> And that was pretty much the last gasp of Ivy League football greatness before the Ivies were demoted to Division IAA at the close of the decade. <
Bill, I enjoyed your post about the achievements of Marinaro and their place in NCAA football lore. Small correction in that the Ivies were doomed to Division 1-AA in 1982. I remember being a benchsitter on the 1981 team, the last year of 1-A for the Ivies, and an 8-0 Yale squad came to Ithaca for Homecoming. I think they were ranked in the AP top 20 that week (1-A, mind you) and was one of only 2 or 3 undefeated teams in the country. It snowed about 4 inches the night before, but we still had a big crowd. An even bigger surprise was the fact that we went into halftime with the lead. When we came out of the locker room for the second half, I was shocked to see a full Crescent. I had the liberty of noticing these things since I knew that I had a better chance of being elected Pope that year than getting into the game. Nonetheless, the official attendance showed a crowd of only 15,000 or so. My guess is that a lot of people came into the stadium at halftime when tickets were no longer collected. (One of my professors told me after the game that he had done so after listening to the first half on the radio.) Unfortunately, we lost in the 4th quarter, and that was Cornell's last chance at making 1-A hay. Perhaps the league's last 1-A gasp for greatness (or okay-ness) was that the Eli's Rich Diana was a finalist for the Heisman that year; something we will probably never see again. It was also Derrick Harmon's first year of varsity ball, for which he received some kind of honors, and rightly so.
It kinda sticks in my craw the way that Ivy football has been relegated to the football third world (or the second, at least). It seems to me that there can be some niche between the over-the-top Miami, Oklahoma, Florida St. style football programs and what we have now in the Ivy League. What a shame.
Bill, I enjoyed your post about the achievements of Marinaro and their place in NCAA football lore. Small correction in that the Ivies were doomed to Division 1-AA in 1982. I remember being a benchsitter on the 1981 team, the last year of 1-A for the Ivies, and an 8-0 Yale squad came to Ithaca for Homecoming. I think they were ranked in the AP top 20 that week (1-A, mind you) and was one of only 2 or 3 undefeated teams in the country. It snowed about 4 inches the night before, but we still had a big crowd. An even bigger surprise was the fact that we went into halftime with the lead. When we came out of the locker room for the second half, I was shocked to see a full Crescent. I had the liberty of noticing these things since I knew that I had a better chance of being elected Pope that year than getting into the game. Nonetheless, the official attendance showed a crowd of only 15,000 or so. My guess is that a lot of people came into the stadium at halftime when tickets were no longer collected. (One of my professors told me after the game that he had done so after listening to the first half on the radio.) Unfortunately, we lost in the 4th quarter, and that was Cornell's last chance at making 1-A hay. Perhaps the league's last 1-A gasp for greatness (or okay-ness) was that the Eli's Rich Diana was a finalist for the Heisman that year; something we will probably never see again. It was also Derrick Harmon's first year of varsity ball, for which he received some kind of honors, and rightly so.
It kinda sticks in my craw the way that Ivy football has been relegated to the football third world (or the second, at least).
It seems to me that there can be some niche between the over-the-top Miami, Oklahoma, Florida St. style football programs and what we have now in the Ivy League. What a shame.
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter - recalling Marinaro
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (---.rgv.res.rr.com)
Date: November 09, 2005 12:56AM
[Q]Hillel Hoffmann Wrote:
KeithK Wrote:
Speaking of archetypes: Every time I see Harvard's khaki football pants, I laugh. What a perfect symbol.[/Q]
OMG, please tell me you're joking about that. Ack.
[/Q]
Yes, Harvard's laughable khaki football pants are a perfect symbol ... of hidebound, waspy lameness.[/q]
Hey, there's nothing wrong with khakis!
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter - recalling Marinaro
Posted by: RichH (---.chvlva.adelphia.net)
Date: November 09, 2005 01:00AM
[Q]jtwcornell91 Wrote:
Hillel Hoffmann Wrote:
KeithK Wrote:
Speaking of archetypes: Every time I see Harvard's khaki football pants, I laugh. What a perfect symbol.[/Q]
OMG, please tell me you're joking about that. Ack.
[/Q]
Yes, Harvard's laughable khaki football pants are a perfect symbol ... of hidebound, waspy lameness.[/Q]
Hey, there's nothing wrong with khakis![/q]
Or waspy lameness!!
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on SportscenterPosted by: Rich S (---.dyn.optonline.net)Date: November 09, 2005 01:02AM
No, obviously I did not but I did listen to a few on radio from Brown and in the early 70s, they were, for the most part, not that well-attended. This I learned not only form hearing Clarkson games there on the radio but also from friends who attended Brown.
Satisfied now Beej?Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on SportscenterPosted by: Beeeej (---.cable.mindspring.com)Date: November 09, 2005 07:20AM
[Q]Rich S Wrote:
No, obviously I did not but I did listen to a few on radio from Brown and in the early 70s, they were, for the most part, not that well-attended. This I learned not only form hearing Clarkson games there on the radio but also from friends who attended Brown.[/q]
In other words, you have no idea at all if Chris Berman was "correct" when he referred to having personally attended games with packed crowds.
[q]Satisfied now Beej?[/q]
Quite, thanks.
Beeeej
___________________________
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve WoronaRe: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter - recalling MarinaroPosted by: Hillel Hoffmann (---.usb.temple.edu)Date: November 09, 2005 09:36AM
[Q]jtwcornell91 Wrote:Hey, there's nothing wrong with khakis![/q]Rise up, ye beige, tan, taupe, camel, ecru, linen, eggshell, wheat, putty, and burnished champagne mist. Rise, unite, and be counted!
P.S. To the person who borrowed the Eliot House non-stick steam iron: Please return it to Housekeeping. The Harvard football team has cottony sweat creases behind the knees of their game pants.Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on SportscenterPosted by: RichS (---.wayneschools.com)Date: November 09, 2005 11:12AM
Actually I have a pretty good idea. Guys I know were at Brown the same time as Boomer and went to the games and related stories.
A few years back, Berman spoke of "quaffing" his "favorite beverage" while huddled together in the packed crowds at Meehan. He's prone to hyperbole as I'm sure you know and this is a good example as he made it sound like ALL their games were sellouts.
I can easily accept Al's comment that the crowds were huge for cornell's visits during that period, given their success.
Heck, even at Clarkson in the early 70s when hockey was more popular than today, Clarkson Arena which was normally packed was not always full, depending on the opponent.
Beej...were you at Brown when Berman was....or at Clarkson when I was?
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on SportscenterPosted by: ben03 (---.rochester.res.rr.com)Date: November 09, 2005 11:36AM
[Q]RichS Wrote:
Beej...were you at Brown when Berman was....or at Clarkson when I was? [/q]
there's that whole respect thing again ... purposely misspelling things just b/c you can. btw, you’re missing two “ee’s†this time but you knew that. didn’t you ever learn how to play well with others? were you home schooled? i think maybe you should talk to someone about these issues RichS. You might be a happier person if you did.
___________________________
Let's GO Red!!!Re: [OT] Marinaro and the HeismanPosted by: RichS (---.wayneschools.com)Date: November 09, 2005 01:15PM
Thanks, it's coming back to me now.
My older brother was at IC at the time and sold programs at the games at Schoelkopf. I remember him telling me about Marinaro, whom I may have seen once or twice on TV in college.
Sullivan was a complete bust in the pros, right? He was short for a QB if I recall correctly.
But Ed was great in Hill Street Blues...something no Heisman winner can say!Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on SportscenterPosted by: RichS (---.wayneschools.com)Date: November 09, 2005 01:22PM
ben03 (that is the way you spell it right?),
It's humorous that you mention respect here since I can't recall you ever showing any to me. Nor on any Clarkson-related issue.
If it's an issue for Beeeej, I'm sure he can handle my missing the correct number of "e"s in his name. Sorry, but when I'm posting with limited time as I was then, I don't have time to stop and count those things. Is it really that important?
ben03, don't engage in pyche assessment. You don't do it very well, at least not in this case. FYI, I was public schooled, I played well with others, was extremely coachable, so I was told, as a consumate team player.
That experience has helped me immeasureably as an employee, manager, teacher, and coach.
Sorry to disappoint you but I don't think there are any real issues here.
Can you play with people who have different rooting interests?
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on SportscenterPosted by: ben03 (---.rochester.res.rr.com)Date: November 09, 2005 01:29PM
[Q]RichS Wrote:
ben03 (that is the way you spell it right?),
It's humorous that you mention respect here since I can't recall you ever showing any to me. Nor on any Clarkson-related issue.
If it's an issue for Beeeej, I'm sure he can handle my missing the correct number of "e"s in his name. Sorry, but when I'm posting with limited time as I was then, I don't have time to stop and count those things. Is it really that important?
ben03, don't engage in pyche assessment. You don't do it very well, at least not in this case. FYI, I was public schooled, I played well with others, was extremely coachable, so I was told, as a consumate team player.
That experience has helped me immeasureably as an employee, manager, teacher, and coach.
Sorry to disappoint you but I don't think there are any real issues here.
Can you play with people who have different rooting interests?
[/q]
yes.
___________________________
Let's GO Red!!!Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on SportscenterPosted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)Date: November 09, 2005 03:58PM
[Q]RichS Wrote: Can you play with people who have different rooting interests?
[/q]Try saying that, verbatim, to an Aussie.
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on SportscenterPosted by: jtwcornell91 (206.254.3.---)Date: November 09, 2005 04:34PM
[Q]billhoward Wrote:
RichS Wrote: Can you play with people who have different rooting interests?
[/Q]
Try saying that, verbatim, to an Aussie.
[/q]
He might smack you in the fanny.
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on SportscenterPosted by: Beeeej (---.cable.mindspring.com)Date: November 09, 2005 06:36PM
[Q]RichS Wrote:
Beej...were you at Brown when Berman was....or at Clarkson when I was? [/q]
No, Dick, I wasn't. But then I didn't make an apparently unsupportable claim about the correctness of anything Berman said about Brown or anything you said about Clarkson.
Beeeej
___________________________
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve WoronaRe: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on SportscenterPosted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)Date: November 09, 2005 09:11PM
[Q]Rich S Wrote: yes he is...even when they're not correct, i.e., his reference a few years back to the "packed crowds" at Brown hockey games when he was there.[/q]If CB showed up for a game at Meehan, would that account for it feeling like a packed house?Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on SportscenterPosted by: Rich S (---.dyn.optonline.net)Date: November 10, 2005 08:25AM
My support came from listening to the games Clarkson played at Brown in the early 70s. And yes, they commented on the crowds each time and none of them were "packed".
Also came from friends of mine who were Brown students at the time ans attended many games there.
Of course, I said the above before but apparently you conveniently chose to ignore it. I'm not surprised.
I think that's far more "support" than you or most everyone else here had for the statements you made about things that took place at Clarkson, especially with respect to a former coach.Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on SportscenterPosted by: DeltaOne81 (---.bos.east.verizon.net)Date: November 10, 2005 08:29AM
[Q]billhoward Wrote:
Rich S Wrote: yes he is...even when they're not correct, i.e., his reference a few years back to the "packed crowds" at Brown hockey games when he was there.[/Q]
If CB showed up for a game at Meehan, would that account for it feeling like a packed house? [/q]
Haha... wow Bill, that was actually pretty darn clever... we'll wear off on you yet
[Q]RichS Wrote:
I think that's far more "support" than you or most everyone else here had for the statements you made about things that took place at Clarkson, especially with respect to a former coach.[/Q]
Please don't take the bait. Thank you.Re: [OT] FactsPosted by: Rich S (---.dyn.optonline.net)Date: November 10, 2005 08:44AM
Right. Hopefully we all know the difference between and facts.Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on SportscenterPosted by: Beeeej (---.cable.mindspring.com)Date: November 10, 2005 02:50PM
[Q]Rich S Wrote:
My support came from listening to the games Clarkson played at Brown in the early 70s. And yes, they commented on the crowds each time and none of them were "packed".
Also came from friends of mine who were Brown students at the time ans attended many games there.
Of course, I said the above before but apparently you conveniently chose to ignore it. I'm not surprised.[/q]
I didn't ignore a thing. You didn't say "Berman might not be correct, from what I know," you said he was incorrect. You don't know that for a fact. Good odds? Maybe. But I'll tend to take the word of someone who was there for four years over someone who wasn't that there might have been a packed house now and again.
[q]I think that's far more "support" than you or most everyone else here had for the statements you made about things that took place at Clarkson, especially with respect to a former coach. [/q]
Really? What statements did I make about things that took place at Clarkson, Dicky? When? In what medium, and in what context? Not "most everyone else" - me.
I'll wait patiently over there where the rational people with no chips on their shoulder hang out.
Beeeej
___________________________
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve WoronaRe: [OT] FactsPosted by: Beeeej (---.cable.mindspring.com)Date: November 10, 2005 02:59PM
[Q]Rich S Wrote:
Right. Hopefully we all know the difference between and facts.[/q]
I think I speak for all of us here, Dickie, when I say: Um, what?
Beeeej
___________________________
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve WoronaRe: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on SportscenterPosted by: Rich S (---.dyn.optonline.net)Date: November 10, 2005 03:14PM
Chips on the shoulder? That's you "beeejy".
After all, this is "your" site; I'm only a visitor and you can post anything you like and call it "fact" and whatever I post is dubious obviously. lol....
I said that Berman is prone to hyperbole on many topics, as anyone who has seen him over the years recognizes. Sure, I'll grant that the place may very well have been "packed" for cornell games in the late 60s and early 70s as Al said and perhaps for Harvard games when Berman was there.
But no way did they have more than decent attendance for the games I listened to or for most other games. I talked to the Clarkson broadcasters and the players I knew in the former case and my friends who were Brown students at the time who attended many games in the latter.
If you don't want to accept that, fine, but it's just another example of you rejecting out of hand whatever I post here. I'll be at Clarkson vs Yale Saturday night. If I offer comments on that, I suppose you'd doubt their veracity as well. Very "legal" of you Mr. Barrister.
Enjoy the view from your "corner."
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on SportscenterPosted by: jhib (---.twcny.res.rr.com)Date: November 10, 2005 04:28PM
[Q]CM cWo 44 Wrote:
--> Just thought it was cool considering they showed footage of Schoellkopf from the early 70's, plus it must be noted considering Cornell is mentioned on Sportscenter about once every 3 years. Here's to hoping that we'll be prominantly featured come early April.[/q]
Well, this started out as an interesting thread, anyway.
I noticed we made it again today with the close call with Syracuse last night.
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on SportscenterPosted by: Beeeej (---.cable.mindspring.com)Date: November 10, 2005 06:01PM
[Q]Rich S Wrote:
After all, this is "your" site; I'm only a visitor and you can post anything you like and call it "fact" and whatever I post is dubious obviously. lol....[/q]
OMGROFLMAO, Rich, that's exactly how it works!!
[q]I said that Berman is prone to hyperbole on many topics[/q]
You said he was "not correct" when he spoke of packed crowds at games he attended.
[q]But no way did they have more than decent attendance for the games I listened to or for most other games. I talked to the Clarkson broadcasters and the players I knew in the former case and my friends who were Brown students at the time who attended many games in the latter.
If you don't want to accept that, fine, but it's just another example of you rejecting out of hand whatever I post here. I'll be at Clarkson vs Yale Saturday night. If I offer comments on that, I suppose you'd doubt their veracity as well. Very "legal" of you Mr. Barrister.[/q]
I don't doubt the veracity of anything you said about what you personally observed or what friends told you - in fact I accept wholesale everything you said about what you personally observed and what friends told you. I also can't imagine any reason to doubt your accounts of games you plan to attend in the future. I've never said otherwise, and any impression you have to the contrary probably means you should get your corrective lens prescription checked before reading any more of my posts, lest you continue to see things that aren't there.
And yet, your knowledge of some of the games while Berman was at Brown still has no bearing on whether some games he attended might have had packed crowds.
Honestly, I don't understand where you get this stuff you keep attributing to me. You don't have to be a lawyer to understand English.
Beeeej
___________________________
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve WoronaRe: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on SportscenterPosted by: jtwcornell91 (206.254.3.---)Date: November 10, 2005 07:07PM
Would you two like to get a room?
Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on SportscenterPosted by: DisplacedCornellian (---.hr.hr.cox.net)Date: November 10, 2005 07:47PM
[Q]jtwcornell91 Wrote:
Would you two like to get a room?[/q]
Seriously. Can't we all just get along
Re: [OT] FactsPosted by: Rich S (---.dyn.optonline.net)Date: November 10, 2005 10:21PM
Thanks beeeejey...
I omitted the "bait" from the "bait and facts."
Very lawyer-like of you again to speak for everyone but then, it IS your site....ROTFLMAO.Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on SportscenterPosted by: Trotsky (---.harris.com)Date: November 11, 2005 08:38AM
Where's that Special Olympics jpg when you need it?Re: [OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on SportscenterPosted by: DeltaOne81 (---.raytheon.com)Date: November 11, 2005 09:55AM
Grrrr, they seem to block all sorts of linking to it. I'd host it myself, but I don't care enough.
Does this work: [carcino.gen.nz]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2005 09:57AM by DeltaOne81.
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