Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by canuck999
Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: canuck999 (---.resnet.cornell.edu)
Date: September 29, 2005 09:56AM
"When several hundred students showed up at Lynah to pick up line numbers, there was a large push to enter the building, police and staff on hand were 'ignored and overwhelmed' and additional police and staff assistance was required."
I love it! They won't even offer a formal apology, and worse yet, they state that students ignored the crowd control on hand. PROBLEM: There was no crowd control for the first 25 minutes!!! The athletics department makes me sick.
I love it! They won't even offer a formal apology, and worse yet, they state that students ignored the crowd control on hand. PROBLEM: There was no crowd control for the first 25 minutes!!! The athletics department makes me sick.
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: jeeby (---.resnet.cornell.edu)
Date: September 29, 2005 10:59AM
lol, I wouldn't expect any less.
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: jdm (---.environsci.cornell.edu)
Date: September 29, 2005 11:30AM
Wow! No mention of the closed doors, the split line created by the stairs and the entrance above, the poorly executed crowd control, etc. Excuses for those failures would have been better than just blaming the students. "Several hundred students"? Makes it sound like 300-500 rather than ~2000.
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: Scersk '97 (---.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net)
Date: September 29, 2005 01:45PM
Wow. Andy Noel does it again:
[www.cornellsun.com]
Does he even remember 1991? He was in Ithaca at the time. Didn't he read the paper?
"However, when several hundred students showed up at Lynah to pick up line numbers, there was a large push to enter the building, police and staff on hand were ignored and overwhelmed and additional police and staff assistance was required."
Several hundred students? I wonder why *over a thousand* students would've decided to show up at that place at that particular time? "No one could have known that the levees would fail."
And then this:
"At this point, as a result of Monday’s problems and the actions of some unruly students who chose not to follow guidelines set forth for the hockey ticket line procedure, as well as those who ignored the orders of Cornell police and Athletic Department staff, have forced the reevaluation of the hockey ticket distribution once again."
Well, of course, it was a few "bad apples" that wouldn't "play the game." It was poor sportsmanship. Ever seen Terry Gilliam's "Brazil?"
Noel's letter was inaccurate and insulting and completely typical for him. What an ass.
[www.cornellsun.com]
Does he even remember 1991? He was in Ithaca at the time. Didn't he read the paper?
"However, when several hundred students showed up at Lynah to pick up line numbers, there was a large push to enter the building, police and staff on hand were ignored and overwhelmed and additional police and staff assistance was required."
Several hundred students? I wonder why *over a thousand* students would've decided to show up at that place at that particular time? "No one could have known that the levees would fail."
And then this:
"At this point, as a result of Monday’s problems and the actions of some unruly students who chose not to follow guidelines set forth for the hockey ticket line procedure, as well as those who ignored the orders of Cornell police and Athletic Department staff, have forced the reevaluation of the hockey ticket distribution once again."
Well, of course, it was a few "bad apples" that wouldn't "play the game." It was poor sportsmanship. Ever seen Terry Gilliam's "Brazil?"
Noel's letter was inaccurate and insulting and completely typical for him. What an ass.
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: Beeeej (---.z065105093.nyc-ny.dsl.cnc.net)
Date: September 29, 2005 01:56PM
I gather from first-hand reports here on eLF that the police were not even present for the first 15-20 minutes of the chaos. I also gather that there was no provision made for the formation of a "line" outside the door, and that there was no Athletics staff actually outside the building to encourage formation of a line or help organize things. I further gather that the police did nearly as much harm as good, as their idea of "crowd control" was to order the front of the crowd to move back without first having the back of the crowd move at all.
I would suggest that these, among other facts, if true, should be reported in letters to the Sun by people who were there, in as polite but firm a way as possible so that Noel's version does not become historical fact.
EDIT: Just to make it clear, I'd normally be happy to write such a letter myself, as I happen to be pretty good at them (IMHO), but I wasn't there and I would be reporting "facts" second-hand at best. I think someone who was there should tell the story as carefully as possible, and anyone interested in writing that sort of letter is welcome to contact me off-eLF for help with language, grammar, or anything else.
Beeeej
I would suggest that these, among other facts, if true, should be reported in letters to the Sun by people who were there, in as polite but firm a way as possible so that Noel's version does not become historical fact.
EDIT: Just to make it clear, I'd normally be happy to write such a letter myself, as I happen to be pretty good at them (IMHO), but I wasn't there and I would be reporting "facts" second-hand at best. I think someone who was there should tell the story as carefully as possible, and anyone interested in writing that sort of letter is welcome to contact me off-eLF for help with language, grammar, or anything else.
Beeeej
___________________________
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2005 02:02PM by Beeeej.
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: Will (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: September 29, 2005 02:27PM
Noelie, you're doing a heckuva job.
___________________________
Is next year here yet?
Is next year here yet?
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: Jacob '06 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: September 29, 2005 02:30PM
I think we need to propose student involvement in the development of the procedure. I think students will have more foresight on what the problems each procedure will create are. Also, as we've seen on this board, we've come up with some pretty good alternatives to this "surprise" procedure. So if anyone is writing letters to the sun about this, I would suggest that they develop a student committee that consults on the procedure. I am probably going to write a letter to Andy Noel about this as well.
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: Will (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: September 29, 2005 02:43PM
[Q]Jacob '06 Wrote:
I think we need to propose student involvement in the development of the procedure. I think students will have more foresight on what the problems each procedure will create are. Also, as we've seen on this board, we've come up with some pretty good alternatives to this "surprise" procedure. So if anyone is writing letters to the sun about this, I would suggest that they develop a student committee that consults on the procedure. I am probably going to write a letter to Andy Noel about this as well.[/q]
Apparently, there already was some form of student involvement in developing the line, as some have mentioned the Student Assembly was a part of the process in some way.
A student committee for this might be a good idea, but the problem that I see is, who chooses the committee? Athletics? If so, who gets chosen? How many are chosen? Should there be an on-campus student club/organization for this, even though the Red Line idea fell through a few years back? What's to prevent this student committee from cheating so that they and their 100 best friends get the best line numbers thanks to advance notice of the location?
I'm not saying this is a bad idea; I'm just saying that it's much easier said than done.
I think we need to propose student involvement in the development of the procedure. I think students will have more foresight on what the problems each procedure will create are. Also, as we've seen on this board, we've come up with some pretty good alternatives to this "surprise" procedure. So if anyone is writing letters to the sun about this, I would suggest that they develop a student committee that consults on the procedure. I am probably going to write a letter to Andy Noel about this as well.[/q]
Apparently, there already was some form of student involvement in developing the line, as some have mentioned the Student Assembly was a part of the process in some way.
A student committee for this might be a good idea, but the problem that I see is, who chooses the committee? Athletics? If so, who gets chosen? How many are chosen? Should there be an on-campus student club/organization for this, even though the Red Line idea fell through a few years back? What's to prevent this student committee from cheating so that they and their 100 best friends get the best line numbers thanks to advance notice of the location?
I'm not saying this is a bad idea; I'm just saying that it's much easier said than done.
___________________________
Is next year here yet?
Is next year here yet?
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: DeltaOne81 (---.raytheon.com)
Date: September 29, 2005 02:54PM
[Q]Will Wrote:
Noelie, you're doing a heckuva job.[/q]
LOL! Quote of the week!
Noelie, you're doing a heckuva job.[/q]
LOL! Quote of the week!
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: Liz '05 (---.pn.at.cox.net)
Date: September 29, 2005 03:05PM
[Q]Will Wrote:
Jacob '06 Wrote:
I think we need to propose student involvement in the development of the procedure. I think students will have more foresight on what the problems each procedure will create are. Also, as we've seen on this board, we've come up with some pretty good alternatives to this "surprise" procedure. So if anyone is writing letters to the sun about this, I would suggest that they develop a student committee that consults on the procedure. I am probably going to write a letter to Andy Noel about this as well.[/Q]
Apparently, there already was some form of student involvement in developing the line, as some have mentioned the Student Assembly was a part of the process in some way.
A student committee for this might be a good idea, but the problem that I see is, who chooses the committee? Athletics? If so, who gets chosen? How many are chosen? Should there be an on-campus student club/organization for this, even though the Red Line idea fell through a few years back? What's to prevent this student committee from cheating so that they and their 100 best friends get the best line numbers thanks to advance notice of the location?
I'm not saying this is a bad idea; I'm just saying that it's much easier said than done.[/q]
The problem with using students, as I see it, is that the ones interested in being on the committee are also going to be trying to get tickets for themselves. You can't really discuss the problems with, say, the Section A entrance to Lynah as a location, just the general idea of a surprise announcement, because that's just asking people to suppress their natural instinct to benifit themselves. It's really hard to criticize a plan without any details, so the student committee is nearly useless.
So, who could be on such a committee? Maybe alums? I'd be more than willing to offer feedback on any proposed plans - and I bet there are a lot of people here that would say the same thing. Granted, I'd have a tough time getting to Ithaca on a regular basis to discuss this, but I'm sure Athletics has the ability to send giant files through email and hold conference calls. Obviously, there's still a chance of leaked information, but it's a lot harder to use the information when you don't know many people on campus. You also have the benefit of many years of experience with line procedures (or lack thereof).
How to choose the committee is a much harder question... First, someone needs to convince Athletics that it is necessary. Then, Athletics could choose a committee that is full of people who 1) strongly support the hockey team, 2) have experience in a variety of ticket distribution methods, 3) have experience/interest in this sort of problem-solving. Maybe applications/letters of intent are the best method...I'm not sure.
Anyone else have any ideas?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2005 03:06PM by Liz '05.
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: Beeeej (---.z065105093.nyc-ny.dsl.cnc.net)
Date: September 29, 2005 03:09PM
Applications/letters of intent...?
Sounds like part of a procedure that will produce results in 2014 or so.
Beeeej
Sounds like part of a procedure that will produce results in 2014 or so.
Beeeej
___________________________
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: KeithK (---.external.lmco.com)
Date: September 29, 2005 03:23PM
That's the thing - it shouldn't matter one way or another whether information is leaked. The fact that someone can be at an advantage by having priviledged information shows that the system is flawed.
Get rid of the secrecy. Announce the procedure, location, etc. on the first day of school in August. Evem better, announce it in April. Then let people do as they please. If everyone knows far in advance when and where you won't have any problem with crowds, becasue there's no way a crowd of people will show up on August 25 (even if there are a couple of diehards who might).
I know Athletics doesn't want to be responsible for a line far in advance and there's the false concern about disrupting academics. Well, these are college students who have to make choices about priorities all the time (do I party or study?). Let them decide.
Get rid of the secrecy. Announce the procedure, location, etc. on the first day of school in August. Evem better, announce it in April. Then let people do as they please. If everyone knows far in advance when and where you won't have any problem with crowds, becasue there's no way a crowd of people will show up on August 25 (even if there are a couple of diehards who might).
I know Athletics doesn't want to be responsible for a line far in advance and there's the false concern about disrupting academics. Well, these are college students who have to make choices about priorities all the time (do I party or study?). Let them decide.
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: Liz '05 (---.pn.at.cox.net)
Date: September 29, 2005 03:23PM
It's the best I could come up with off the top of my head 
Even if they come here and say, "Hey, who's interested?" they'd still need to get from 30 responders to a managable committee size.
Even if they come here and say, "Hey, who's interested?" they'd still need to get from 30 responders to a managable committee size.
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: Liz '05 (---.pn.at.cox.net)
Date: September 29, 2005 03:27PM
[Q]KeithK Wrote:
That's the thing - it shouldn't matter one way or another whether information is leaked. The fact that someone can be at an advantage by having priviledged information shows that the system is flawed.
[/q]
Athletics seems pretty convinced that if they just tweak the current procedure a bit, it'll be perfect. And the current procedure requires secrecy. It might be easier to effect change by working within the system.
That's the thing - it shouldn't matter one way or another whether information is leaked. The fact that someone can be at an advantage by having priviledged information shows that the system is flawed.
[/q]
Athletics seems pretty convinced that if they just tweak the current procedure a bit, it'll be perfect. And the current procedure requires secrecy. It might be easier to effect change by working within the system.
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: Beeeej (---.z065105093.nyc-ny.dsl.cnc.net)
Date: September 29, 2005 03:29PM
[Q]Liz '05 Wrote:Athletics seems pretty convinced that if they just tweak the current procedure a bit, it'll be perfect. And the current procedure requires secrecy. It might be easier to effect change by working within the system.[/q]
From where do you get this idea that Athletics is married to the current procedure and only willing to tweak it here and there, rather than scrapping it and starting from scratch?
Beeeej
From where do you get this idea that Athletics is married to the current procedure and only willing to tweak it here and there, rather than scrapping it and starting from scratch?
Beeeej
___________________________
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: Liz '05 (---.pn.at.cox.net)
Date: September 29, 2005 03:36PM
It's my impression. They may not be. But this is why I think that.
1) They didn't change it significantly from last year to this year (with the exception of the 2 tickets per line number to 1 ticket per line number rule).
2) What I see as an unwillingness to hold themselves accountable for the mess this year. See: Andy Noel's letter to the Sun, which seems to blame the students exclusively.
Edit to add: The other reason I suggest addressing the secrecy concern is that it keeps all options, including tweaking the current procedure, open.
1) They didn't change it significantly from last year to this year (with the exception of the 2 tickets per line number to 1 ticket per line number rule).
2) What I see as an unwillingness to hold themselves accountable for the mess this year. See: Andy Noel's letter to the Sun, which seems to blame the students exclusively.
Edit to add: The other reason I suggest addressing the secrecy concern is that it keeps all options, including tweaking the current procedure, open.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2005 03:41PM by Liz '05.
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: calgARI '07 (209.2.88.---)
Date: September 29, 2005 03:53PM
They took student input in the fall of 2003 after that year's disaster. At the meeting was the VP and Pres of the SA, Ben Rocky-Harris, somebody else who didn't say much, and myself. We discussed a lot of options and came up with the current format that they have done the last two seasons as the procedure. It certainly has its deficiencies, but the idea of it is a good one I think that is unless a doorway is involved. Putting 2000 people through a doorway makes this plan bound for disaster. When we put forward our recommendation two years ago, we said it was contingent upon it being in an open field and/or in an obscure location away from the middle of campus, that way people will progressively filter in. That is how last year's procedure went and I thought it was very good in its order. Again, the people making the decisions destroyed any possibility of it working when they decided to do it at the most cental, non-obscure location possible and having stairs and a doorway as part of the location. Not only that, the door did not open until several minutes after the announcement. And also, contrary to what Noel says, there were no cops or anybody there until several minutes after the announcement. There was no order and although the students could have been more orderly, it was totally the fault of the organizers for not having any sense or forsight.
I still contend that the best way to do it is by making all student seats General Admission. Also of note is that there will be a few hundred more student seats next year as a result of the renovation.
I still contend that the best way to do it is by making all student seats General Admission. Also of note is that there will be a few hundred more student seats next year as a result of the renovation.
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: KeithK (---.external.lmco.com)
Date: September 29, 2005 04:02PM
I disagree that the current system is anythign approaching perfect, obviously. I can't argue with you about "working within the system", but then I'm not likely to put too much actual effort into changing things, aside from sniping on this board.
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: September 29, 2005 04:24PM
>>> They took student input in the fall of 2003 after that year's disaster.
This is progress. Not the same disaster repeated each year.
BTW, how does Harvard manage to deal with the crush of students seeking season hockey tickets? I've never heard a word of unhappy students, or Cantabs shut out of season tickets, let alone injured in ticket lines. And it's a smaller facility in a bigger city.
This is progress. Not the same disaster repeated each year.
BTW, how does Harvard manage to deal with the crush of students seeking season hockey tickets? I've never heard a word of unhappy students, or Cantabs shut out of season tickets, let alone injured in ticket lines. And it's a smaller facility in a bigger city.
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: KeithK (---.external.lmco.com)
Date: September 29, 2005 04:35PM
[Q]billhoward Wrote:
BTW, how does Harvard manage to deal with the crush of students seeking season hockey tickets? I've never heard a word of unhappy students, or Cantabs shut out of season tickets, let alone injured in ticket lines. And it's a smaller facility in a bigger city.
[/q]BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
BTW, how does Harvard manage to deal with the crush of students seeking season hockey tickets? I've never heard a word of unhappy students, or Cantabs shut out of season tickets, let alone injured in ticket lines. And it's a smaller facility in a bigger city.
[/q]BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: Beeeej (---.z065105093.nyc-ny.dsl.cnc.net)
Date: September 29, 2005 04:55PM
[Q]billhoward Wrote:BTW, how does Harvard manage to deal with the crush of students seeking season hockey tickets?[/q]
They ask both of them to be on their best behavior.
Beeeej
They ask both of them to be on their best behavior.
Beeeej
___________________________
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: CUlater 89 (64.244.223.---)
Date: September 29, 2005 05:27PM
[Q]KeithK Wrote:
That's the thing - it shouldn't matter one way or another whether information is leaked. The fact that someone can be at an advantage by having priviledged information shows that the system is flawed.
Get rid of the secrecy. Announce the procedure, location, etc. on the first day of school in August. Evem better, announce it in April. Then let people do as they please. If everyone knows far in advance when and where you won't have any problem with crowds, becasue there's no way a crowd of people will show up on August 25 (even if there are a couple of diehards who might).
I know Athletics doesn't want to be responsible for a line far in advance and there's the false concern about disrupting academics. Well, these are college students who have to make choices about priorities all the time (do I party or study?). Let them decide. [/q]
Isn't is clear to everyone that the University has mandated that Athletics not encourage/require lining up during class time? Noel evens mentions having to "abide by University guidelines and address faculty concerns..."
The reason it's so clear to me is because Keith's idea is spot on. Not only that, it's essentially similar to my recollection of the line in the mid- to late-80s. I don't remember exactly when the ticket sale announcements were made, but essentially, word would get out that a significant (relative term) number of people had started camping out. The line started at the Section A entrance and wrapped around Lynch (pre-Alberding/Fieldhouse/Bartels) along the wall (and then off elsewhere (I think along Alumni Fields)). Line checks were random and you had to show your student ID (you may have been able to hold one other person's spot). The night before the sale, the doors opened; attendants had the master list that the line monitors had been keeping, checked your ID and gave you a colored piece of paper with your line number on it (each class had a different color, so seniors got priority etc.). Then we slept in Lynah for the night and seat selection began at 8 a.m.
That's the thing - it shouldn't matter one way or another whether information is leaked. The fact that someone can be at an advantage by having priviledged information shows that the system is flawed.
Get rid of the secrecy. Announce the procedure, location, etc. on the first day of school in August. Evem better, announce it in April. Then let people do as they please. If everyone knows far in advance when and where you won't have any problem with crowds, becasue there's no way a crowd of people will show up on August 25 (even if there are a couple of diehards who might).
I know Athletics doesn't want to be responsible for a line far in advance and there's the false concern about disrupting academics. Well, these are college students who have to make choices about priorities all the time (do I party or study?). Let them decide. [/q]
Isn't is clear to everyone that the University has mandated that Athletics not encourage/require lining up during class time? Noel evens mentions having to "abide by University guidelines and address faculty concerns..."
The reason it's so clear to me is because Keith's idea is spot on. Not only that, it's essentially similar to my recollection of the line in the mid- to late-80s. I don't remember exactly when the ticket sale announcements were made, but essentially, word would get out that a significant (relative term) number of people had started camping out. The line started at the Section A entrance and wrapped around Lynch (pre-Alberding/Fieldhouse/Bartels) along the wall (and then off elsewhere (I think along Alumni Fields)). Line checks were random and you had to show your student ID (you may have been able to hold one other person's spot). The night before the sale, the doors opened; attendants had the master list that the line monitors had been keeping, checked your ID and gave you a colored piece of paper with your line number on it (each class had a different color, so seniors got priority etc.). Then we slept in Lynah for the night and seat selection began at 8 a.m.
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: redhair34 (---.resnet.cornell.edu)
Date: September 29, 2005 05:48PM
[Q]calgARI '07 Wrote:
I still contend that the best way to do it is by making all student seats General Admission.[/q]
As I've said before, I too believe this is the best way to go. I've talked to many fellow faithful about the idea and they all seem to like the General Admission idea.
Still, it seems as though there are, for the most part, four prevailing suggestions for improving the ticket policy on ELF:
1) The "set the date and location (many have suggested the Tuesday of fall break) far in advance, and let people line up whenever they want" policy
2) some sort of General Admission policy
3) some sort of lottery system that is based on seniority
4) scanning IDs or otherwise tracking student's attendance and then giving tickets to those that attend the most games
I think we should present and fully articulate the specifics of each policy/suggestion (not limited to the four above), debate their pros and cons, and try and come to some sort of consensus as to which is the "best" (this is meant to be a term of art). Then some of us can take the initiative to contact Athletics and whomever else at the appropriate time to offer our help and try to sell a ticket distribution proposal. Instead of each of us submitting proposals to athletics, I think it would be more constructive and in our best interest to utilize the collective knowledge/experience (both past and present)/effort of the posters on elf to take ownership of the ticket process that we all seem to care so much about. If you think this would be an exercise in futility, then don't waste your time with it. I'm sure many of us are willing to take the chance that our suggestion might fall on deaf (dumb, ignorant, stubborn) ears.
What does everyone think?
I still contend that the best way to do it is by making all student seats General Admission.[/q]
As I've said before, I too believe this is the best way to go. I've talked to many fellow faithful about the idea and they all seem to like the General Admission idea.
Still, it seems as though there are, for the most part, four prevailing suggestions for improving the ticket policy on ELF:
1) The "set the date and location (many have suggested the Tuesday of fall break) far in advance, and let people line up whenever they want" policy
2) some sort of General Admission policy
3) some sort of lottery system that is based on seniority
4) scanning IDs or otherwise tracking student's attendance and then giving tickets to those that attend the most games
I think we should present and fully articulate the specifics of each policy/suggestion (not limited to the four above), debate their pros and cons, and try and come to some sort of consensus as to which is the "best" (this is meant to be a term of art). Then some of us can take the initiative to contact Athletics and whomever else at the appropriate time to offer our help and try to sell a ticket distribution proposal. Instead of each of us submitting proposals to athletics, I think it would be more constructive and in our best interest to utilize the collective knowledge/experience (both past and present)/effort of the posters on elf to take ownership of the ticket process that we all seem to care so much about. If you think this would be an exercise in futility, then don't waste your time with it. I'm sure many of us are willing to take the chance that our suggestion might fall on deaf (dumb, ignorant, stubborn) ears.
What does everyone think?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2005 06:56PM by redhair34.
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: Jacob '06 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: September 29, 2005 06:21PM
[Q]redhair34 Wrote:
calgARI '07 Wrote:
I still contend that the best way to do it is by making all student seats General Admission.[/Q]
As I've said before, I too believe this is the best way to go. I've talked to many fellow faithful about the idea and they all seem to like the General Admission idea.
Still, it seems as though there are, for the most part, two prevailing suggestions for improving the ticket policy on ELF:
1) The "set the date and location (many have suggested the Tuesday of fall break) far in advance, and let people line up whenever they want" policy
2) some sort of General Admission policy
I think we should present and fully articulate the specifics of each policy/suggestion (not limited to the two above), debate their pros and cons, and try and come to some sort of consensus as to which is the "best" (this is meant to be a term of art). Then some of us can take the initiative to contact Athletics and whomever else at the appropriate time to offer our help and try to sell a ticket distribution proposal. Instead of each of us submitting proposals to athletics, I think it would be more constructive and in our best interest to utilize the collective knowledge/experience (both past and present)/effort of the posters on elf to take ownership of the ticket process that we all seem to care so much about. If you think this would be an exercise in futility, then don't waste your time with it. I'm sure many of us are willing to take the chance that our suggestion might fall on deaf (dumb, ignorant, stubborn) ears.
[/q]
I would add to you two listed above a couple more things that have been discussed:
Some sort of lottery system that is based on seniority
Scanning IDs or otherwise tracking student's attendance and then giving tickets to those that attend the most games (this and the lining up whenever seem to be the only two procedures that reward the most loyal fans)
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: KeithK (---.external.lmco.com)
Date: September 29, 2005 06:31PM
[q]Isn't is clear to everyone that the University has mandated that Athletics not encourage/require lining up during class time? Noel evens mentions having to "abide by University guidelines and address faculty concerns..."[/q]You are probably right, but it would be nice if the folks mandating this would put out a specific statement saying as much. Otherwise we are left to speculate whether the Athletic Dept. is simply using this as justification.
Even if the central administration has mandated something along the lines of what you're saying, it should still be possible to hold a long term line. Simply state in advance that random line checks will not be held during the hours of 8am and 4pm weekdays and possibly 7-9 on prelim nights. Then no one has to miss class to be in line but people do have to stay over night and all evening. Nothing stops someone from studying on line.
Even if the central administration has mandated something along the lines of what you're saying, it should still be possible to hold a long term line. Simply state in advance that random line checks will not be held during the hours of 8am and 4pm weekdays and possibly 7-9 on prelim nights. Then no one has to miss class to be in line but people do have to stay over night and all evening. Nothing stops someone from studying on line.
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: redhair34 (---.resnet.cornell.edu)
Date: September 29, 2005 06:47PM
[Q]Jacob '06 Wrote:
I would add to you two listed above a couple more things that have been discussed [/q]
Done. Thank you for your input.
[Q]
Scanning IDs or otherwise tracking student's attendance and then giving tickets to those that attend the most games (this and the lining up whenever seem to be the only two procedures that reward the most loyal fans)
[/q]
What about General Admission? The fans who show up earliest for the games (aka the most deserving) get the best seats. This plan has the added benefit of more students showing up prior to face-off.
I would add to you two listed above a couple more things that have been discussed [/q]
Done. Thank you for your input.
[Q]
Scanning IDs or otherwise tracking student's attendance and then giving tickets to those that attend the most games (this and the lining up whenever seem to be the only two procedures that reward the most loyal fans)
[/q]
What about General Admission? The fans who show up earliest for the games (aka the most deserving) get the best seats. This plan has the added benefit of more students showing up prior to face-off.
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: scott (132.236.110.---)
Date: September 29, 2005 06:50PM
The system would have worked if they had chose a better location where they could actually form a line. Last year, when they did it in the parking lot, everyone came from the same direction (up tower road) and a line was formed in the lot because as soon as you ran up, you saw a line of people that was controlled by AD staff. Instead of creating a "line" where there are multiple ways to get on this line, they should have seperated people by having them run somewhere, just like they did last year. Not to mention that there were already 500 or more people roaming around the exact area where they were issuing the numbers. Did they not think that issuing numbers where everyone already was wasn't going to cause a riot sitation? Didn't they see (or know about) the false alarm on saturday night? Makes no sense. They should have seperated all those people gathered by Teagle/Bartels by having them go somewhere else! instead of having people push to try and get through a door and up stairs on a rainy night.
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: TCHL8842 (---.resnet.cornell.edu)
Date: September 29, 2005 06:51PM
I was thinking about it, if people still want a line but dont want to sacrifice academics is to announce when and where the ticket line will be over the summer. The time set should be sometime the week before school starts so people can come up and only the true faithful will camp out the week before school starts to get tickets. This awards people that really want tickets, should get rid of many factetimers, and not sacrifice academics. It seems to me to accomplish all the goals that people here want and what the administration wants.
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: Beeeej (---.z065105093.nyc-ny.dsl.cnc.net)
Date: September 29, 2005 06:59PM
Many students have summer employment commitments that are scheduled to end just before the semester begins, often as a required part of their financial aid package. It would be wrong to ask them to leave their jobs early, or consider them facetimers for not doing so.
Beeeej
Beeeej
___________________________
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2005 06:59PM by Beeeej.
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: redhair34 (---.resnet.cornell.edu)
Date: September 29, 2005 07:01PM
[Q]Beeeej Wrote:
Many students have summer employment commitments that are scheduled to end just before the semester begins, often as a required part of their financial aid package. It would be wrong to ask them to leave their jobs early, or consider them facetimers for not doing so.
Beeeej[/q]
...Not to mention those that must endure painful RA training
Many students have summer employment commitments that are scheduled to end just before the semester begins, often as a required part of their financial aid package. It would be wrong to ask them to leave their jobs early, or consider them facetimers for not doing so.
Beeeej[/q]
...Not to mention those that must endure painful RA training
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: Ack (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: September 30, 2005 01:27PM
It's April and they've announced the line far in advance: "You're in line for this season's hockey tickets?" "No, I'm hoping to get the ones 3 years from now."
Re: Cornell Sun "Excuse" from Athletic Office
Posted by: judy (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: September 30, 2005 10:41PM
[Q]Beeeej Wrote:
billhoward Wrote:BTW, how does Harvard manage to deal with the crush of students seeking season hockey tickets?[/Q]
They ask both of them to be on their best behavior.
Beeeej[/q]
I thought they had 6 jerk fans...
Order of preference
Posted by: Mike Nevin (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: October 02, 2005 10:33AM
I think Athletics has got to understand the obvious order of preference here.
The current system -- having a fixed line formation time -- is really no better, and usually worse than an entirely random lottery system. If this is the only line option, it is entirely worthless. I think the obvious order of preference for distribution schemes is:
1) A line which rewards seniority / fanatical loyalty.
The current line fails miserably at this. And when poorly done, incites a riot. A line should not be difficult or costly, and could probably quite easily be paid for by sponsorship from local businesses.
Why not nightly line checks at Dunbars? With a little creativity, the hockey line could become a profit making business for someone.
2) General Admission
Probably, needs to be by section, or it may result in additional rioting, or a hockey line for athletics to manage at every game.
3) Random Lottery type distribution scheme
At least its fair, and nobody gets hurt.
4) The current scheme of riot inducing "no forming the line before..." scheme.
It fails to reward loyalty, it is almost as random as the lottery, and it even creates the potential for bodily injury.
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