2002-03 student ticket sales procedure announced

Cornell has just announced a two-stage process for students to buy and select season hockey tickets for the 2002-03 season. It'll take place on September 21st (when line numbers will be issued and payments will be collected) and September 22nd (when seats may be selected and tickets will be distributed).

[cornellbigred.fansonly.com]

Discuss.

Anyone who'd care to comment on the record for a 14850 Sports article I'm working on, please feel free to drop me a note at sports@14850.com. I'm interested in reactions to this year's policy, reminiscences about past policies including the ritual of "sleeping out" for tickets.

ok. i think that the only thing this will solve is students missing classes. typical cornell admin behavior. they don't care about the chaos just as long as they don't get any slack from parents, etc. for students having to skip a few lectures in order to get hockey tickets. there is nothing in place to regulate when the line starts and no mention made of policing the line to avoid the inevitable fighting when one of the many line skippers are caught. seems to me that little has changed. all that talk for nothing.

Cool - they're having the line-up for season tickets on Sukkot, so Jewish students can set up temporary wooden shelters while on line, and use gourds to beat line-skippers into submission!

Beeeej

there is nothing in place to regulate when the line starts and no mention made of policing the line to avoid the inevitable fighting when one of the many line skippers are caught. seems to me that little has changed. all that talk for nothing.

I don't think there's any reason they should have to regulate when the line starts - so long as they don't *tell* us that they will and then don't. That was the issues 2 years ago, IMHO... "you can't get here before 2 PM on Saturday or we'll kick you out." So we get there at 1:45 ish only to see 500 people in front of us. So perhaps the best way to deal with controversy on the limit is just to not have one.

And I'm hoping Cornell won't be stupid enough to not police the line for fights and skippers. If they don't then they'll have the same problem again. I figure they've got to have learned that lesson (right????).

-Fred, DeltaOne81 '03

Look, we always used to police ourselves. The first people there start a list, and when a few more get there they set up the rules about when you can leave, when they will have checks, etc.. You need to always have a few of the Lynah Faithful there to check everyone in and hand out the rules and then everyone has to be there at a certain time. You let the U know your rules and get them to be there before the official time and let people in according to the list.Granted, there can be gate crashers, etc., but I bet if you set it up fairly, it will work.

Look, we always used to police ourselves. The first people there start a list...

Hmmm, well, I haven't yet camped overnight, and maybe the break from the overnight line with the old lottery sorta broke the tradition, but I know we're considering doing it this year, so if I'm there, I'll certain try. And if I'm not, sounds like a good idea for the other faithful to follow, IMHO .

-Fred, DeltaOne81 '03

Just curious. What would people think about general admission sales? It would certainly fill the building early - something (the late arrival of fans) that I know bothers some.

to be honest, i am leaning towards a GA myself.
how would student GA be a bad thing?
ir maybe GA in A, B, D and then not in the other sections?

I like the idea, for students . I don't think it would work for us townies. For one, coming from Syracuse with a family, just getting there can be an accomplishment. I don't remember for sure if it was every year, but as students we had gen. ad. and used to get there at 6 for 8 PM game.

And yes it did fill up early. In fact, we had a prof move up the time of a prelim (back when we used to have games during the week) so we could be done and get to Lynah in time.

if anyone's interested, i did a big article for a newspaper here chronicling the faults of the process from years past. I sent this article to frank araneo, who headed the "committee" to choose a new procedure. i don't think the new process has fixed any of the major faults either, but i do intend on sleeping out so i don't get screwed. hope it's not like last yr when i went to sleep as nunmber 35 and woke up number 100. anyway, here's the article if anyone cares to read

-mike

So, it was Friday night and you couldn’t score…men’s ice hockey tickets, that is.
But you, and thousands of other students who were unable to get season tickets might not be the only ones who are currently frus-trat-ed by Cornell’s sales system. Many a murmur was heard behind the Field House on Friday September 28 as angry students who had camped out for tickets awoke to find many more people ahead of them in line than had been there when they closed their eyes a few short hours ago.
This year’s season ticket sale for the men’s ice hockey team represents yet another attempt to reform the system in order to assure more fairness. However, this goal is still far from accomplished, prompting the Student Assembly and the Athletic Department to assemble a small committee to improve the process.
There indeed must exist somewhere a simpler and more efficient solution, which would leave all fans satisfied with the process, and I propose that I have found such a solution. In order to determine what kind of sales process should be enacted next year, one must only look at two factors: the aim of the process, and the problems in the history of sales.
THE SENIORITY SYSTEM
Prior to my freshman year, the Big Red had a long-standing seniority procedure, in which tickets were sold to those who were interested in attending the games, from the senior class down. However, Mike Schafer, Cornell’s Head Coach, expressed concern that those underclassmen who supported the Big Red had little chance at attending games. In response to this, the Athletic Department created a new system of meritocracy, instituted last year, which promoted the idea that the fans Cornell most wanted at its games—those who would best maintain the Lynah tradition and give the Red a home “field” advantage—were those who were willing to camp out for tickets. Herein, we can identify Cornell’s basic current aim in the process: meritocracy. This value, I argue, characterizes the past two years’ sales, and should continue to be the principle upon which further procedures are determined.
MERITOCRACY, YEAR ONE
Specifically, in the fall of 2000, fans were told to arrive at the field house at 4PM Friday afternoon, where they would receive a number, which they would continue to hold through the weekend, until the final ticket sales on Monday afternoon. Random line checks between Friday and Monday necessitated that each person or group had to have representatives holding their numbers during the whole weekend. Further factors which categorized this process were (1) the ability of one person to hold four numbers at once, and (2) the choice of fans to sleep either at home or inside the field house, between the hours of 10PM and 8AM, where it was announced that there would be no line checks during these periods.
Ultimately, this was a well-run system in order to achieve Cornell’s meritocracy aim, but it was not without its problems. Firstly, it was a process which took an entire weekend, rather than just a day. Secondly, complaints surfaced about the phenomenon of lining up to get in line, whereas an unofficial line formed Friday morning and students waited until 4PM to receive their numbers. Lastly, the process seemed overly complicated.
MERITOCRACY, YEAR TWO
In order to counter these problems and preserve the meritocracy system, Cornell redesigned its season hockey ticket process this year. This year’s process was supposed to be both simpler and quicker. It was only announced that hockey tickets would go on sale at 5:30PM Friday, behind the field house, which would be closed to student entrance (unlike the previous year). However, the simplicity of the process was its main flaw. Students began lining up on Thursday morning, and roughly 50 people were in line by 7PM. Also, no rules were posted regarding line numbers, and thus no line checks were instituted. Thus, cutting became a common phenomenon. Attempts by some groups of students to stop other groups from cutting resulted in arguments that lasted through the wee hours of the morning. Then, at 7AM on Friday, students were issued official numbers by members of Cornell’s Athletic Department, and told to return at 5:30 that afternoon to select their seats, in order of the numbers they were given.
By then, the cutting was apparent; students at the unofficial number of 30 at 7PM Thursday found that they received the official number of 100 the next morning. Furthermore, Cornell never announced that it intended to give out any sort of line numbers, thereby discouraging students from showing up the night before. Obviously, these two problems represent new concerns, which have taken the place of the old ones. But can a solution be reached next year which considers the goals of the process, and the problems that past sales have had?
MY SOLUTION
I maintain that such a solution exists. The process should continue as a meritocracy, as the past two years have reflected. Firstly, Cornell should announce the sales time and date, but not determine a time when individuals receive line numbers. This solves the problem of lining up to get in line, over which officials have no control. Secondly, official line numbers should be given out to students when they arrive at the field house. Thirdly, and most importantly, one person must be there to hold a number from the time that the original student received that line number until the time of ticket sales. This will be ensured by the Athletic Department’s random line checks. Herein lies the catch: die-hard fans could choose to arrive as early as they like, but they are discouraged from doing so more than a day or two in advance because they (or their friends) will have to camp out for the entire time. Line numbers also solve the problem of line cutting. In addition, students who choose to camp out should be allowed to do so in the Ramin Room of the field house, instead of the 30-degree Ithaca weather. Lastly, all of these rules should be clearly published, with no last minute, unannounced surprises by the Athletic Department.
Some may still maintain that my solution has problems of its own. Students, namely, are encouraged to miss class, and miss a lot of it, as they can arrive as early as they would like. However, I have two responses to this concern: Cornellians do not need an excuse to miss class, and, as shown by this year’s process, one need not show up more than a day or so in advance in order to get the best seats.
I believe that my solution solves the major problems of the past, and stays true to Schafer’s system of meritocracy for fans. It places the responsibility solely on fans to arrive early enough to get a low number, and to setup a schedule by which that number is defended until tickets are sold. Truly, with this solution, students can no longer blame administration or fellow students for their loss; if you can’t get men’s ice hockey tickets, “It’s all your fault!”

For one, I hate the idea of general admin. It is really necessary to make us committ an extra two hours to every game before game time? Is it really fair to students who have gotten season tickets their whole undergraduate 'careers' but have to miss out on the Hahvahd game because they have a Friday afternoon lab? (you *know* people would line up a day ahead of a Friday Harvard game) Believe it or not, but I generally do work Saturday nights before games, that's a couple hours of productivity down the tubes. We may be students, but we need lives other than hockey too (as less fun as they may be).

I don't like that people show up late either, but I don't really think there's much of a sane solution to it. The only thing I can think of is that 7 isn't a great time. Dinner time is typically 6 or 6:30 - if your friends don't have tickets and want to eat at 6:30, then you're hard pressed to make it there on time. I think a 7:30 start time could help this - though it may do nothing at all.

Overall, Shafer 'n' company may just have to live with a quarter-empty Lynah for 15 minutes. For many schools, a quarter empty total is a good day.

-Fred

Do you really think you'd have to get to Lynah 2 hours in advance to get in if they went to GA for the student sections? Yes, that's how it was once upon a time but I don't think it would happen today, even if we get back to being aan annual Final Four type team. Yes, the prime seats might go early, but 2 hours? When there was GA by section in the mid 90's I could get seats that were as good as I wanted (fifth row, center ice typically) arriving 30 mins in advance. The team is better now, but I doubt it would be that much different now, esp. considering the embarassing number of empty seats at game time now.

You don't think it's "fair" that to make people come early to games to get good seats when they could be doing other things? (I am extrapolating "fair" from the Harvard line - sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth.) Of course, it's fair. Everyone makes decisions based on what's important to them. If getting prime seats to the hockey game is very important to you then you'll get there early. If dinner with friends or homework or whatever is more important then you'd get worse seats. Very simple. It's not like we're talking about every day here either. It's two nights every other weekend basically, on days when you probably have plenty of flexibility anyway.

You don't think it's fair that someone wouldn't get into the Harvard game because of an afternoon lab? It's once a year, plan around it.

Anything the school can do to get people in the stands by the opening faceoff is a good thing. Even better, by warmups, but I'd settle for gametime. I'd love to see a return to GA - it worked well before. For firecode reasons GA by section is probably better, but whatever.

I do agree with you about the start times. 7pm is annoyingly early, esp. when you're roadtripping to get to the game. That extra 30 mins makes a big difference on a Friday night after work. But that was a league decision.

I totally agree, Keith! It's a matter of personal priorities. I want Lynah filled for warm-ups!!!

You go, Keith!

On game nights, we moved dinner at the fraternity forward an hour to get to Lynah by 6:30. No big deal.

Ahh, the 2 year ago line up. That was really infuriating, as people let their friends cut the front of the line, and then 3 hours into the lineup they came outside and started policing us. I moved from about 800 (I wasn't going to line up if they were not going to let the line form) to about 1600 in that time I think (ended up in the corner).

I am glad that they are not trying to disperse the line before the line up time... that's idiotic. There is no way to really enforce that and it just becomes a sprinting test.

My biggest gripe, however... why not hand out line numbers BEFORE checking ids? It would be much quicker to just run down the line handing out numbers (which would make cutting the line useless as you would not get a number). 2 years ago it took about 3 hours to get into the building because they were checking IDs, leaving plenty of time for people to cut the unpoliced line outside.

LGR!

When the first people get there, they should start their own numbers. Then CU lines them up by those and does what ever nonsense they need to do. It really can work.