Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by jeh25
Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: jeh25 (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 03:09PM
Look, we really need to quit bitching about where we were seeded. Yes, we had the best record in college hockey, but we also had the 35th toughest schedule. How did we do against teams in the top half?
Look at our record. Seriously, look at it.
Lost to #3 BC
Lost to #12 Harvard
Tied to #17 Colgate
Lost and tied #18 Michigan State
Tied #23 UVM
Lost to #26 DC
Were we hot down the stretch? Sure. But we also had a crummy Nov and we tanked 3 *key* NC games.
I'm not busting on the team at all. Frankly, I think this has been a great season. But the "we got screwed" talk is getting old. We weren't a number 1 seed because of our own performance on the ice.
But you know what? Last no.1 seed or first no.2 seed, nobody out there wants to face our D. And more importantly, in a 16 team tourney, it still takes just 4 wins to bring it home no matter what your seed, so here's to 4 wins. Let's go red!
Look at our record. Seriously, look at it.
Lost to #3 BC
Lost to #12 Harvard
Tied to #17 Colgate
Lost and tied #18 Michigan State
Tied #23 UVM
Lost to #26 DC
Were we hot down the stretch? Sure. But we also had a crummy Nov and we tanked 3 *key* NC games.
I'm not busting on the team at all. Frankly, I think this has been a great season. But the "we got screwed" talk is getting old. We weren't a number 1 seed because of our own performance on the ice.
But you know what? Last no.1 seed or first no.2 seed, nobody out there wants to face our D. And more importantly, in a 16 team tourney, it still takes just 4 wins to bring it home no matter what your seed, so here's to 4 wins. Let's go red!
___________________________
Cornell '98 '00; Yale 01-03; UConn 03-07; Brown 07-09; Penn State faculty 09-
Work is no longer an excuse to live near an ECACHL team...
Cornell '98 '00; Yale 01-03; UConn 03-07; Brown 07-09; Penn State faculty 09-
Work is no longer an excuse to live near an ECACHL team...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2005 03:11PM by jeh25.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: atb9 (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 03:17PM
I look at those early season road loses and it just reminds me how young the team is. It's a great time to be a Cornell hockey fan.
___________________________
24 is the devil
24 is the devil
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: puff (---.pn.at.cox.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 03:22PM
I agree completely. Yeah, maybe we got screwed, but life's not fair so you just have to deal with it (i learned it from my dad when he gave my sister 15 m&ms and i only got 10).
Suck it up, kick some ass and don't bother taking names.
LETS GO RED!!!!
Suck it up, kick some ass and don't bother taking names.
LETS GO RED!!!!
___________________________
tewinks '04
stir crazy...
tewinks '04
stir crazy...
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Stephen Turner (---.nyc.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 03:22PM
Minnesota deserves a #1 over us? They lost 14 games, including 2 to Mich Tech and 2 to Anchorage. The are only a #1 due to 10-0 vs St. Cloud and Mankato, both with losing records.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: JordanCS (---.bunt.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 03:27PM
Here's the thing...if we were the 4th number 1, and Minn. was the first number 2, we'd be the number 1 seed in.....probably Minnesota! The only change is we play OSU instead of Maine in the first round. Not worth complaining over.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: jeh25 (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 03:27PM
[Q]puff Wrote:
Yeah, maybe we got screwed, but life's not fair so you just have to deal with it [/q]
Agreed. Life sucks. Get a helmet.
Yeah, maybe we got screwed, but life's not fair so you just have to deal with it [/q]
Agreed. Life sucks. Get a helmet.
___________________________
Cornell '98 '00; Yale 01-03; UConn 03-07; Brown 07-09; Penn State faculty 09-
Work is no longer an excuse to live near an ECACHL team...
Cornell '98 '00; Yale 01-03; UConn 03-07; Brown 07-09; Penn State faculty 09-
Work is no longer an excuse to live near an ECACHL team...
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Stephen Turner (---.nyc.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 03:29PM
No, if we were a #1, we would stay east.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: French Rage (---.wdc2-4-8-136-225.wdc2.dsl-verizon.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 03:38PM
I agree. Quit whining. #1 would be nice, but these games are definitely winnable. sure Minnesota has a good home crowd, but it sure as shit hasnt helped them at times this year. And their goalie sucks. So while nothing is a given anything is possible.
Plus they have cheerleaders. Cheerleaders at a fucking hockey game. What a joke from the "state of hockey".
Plus they have cheerleaders. Cheerleaders at a fucking hockey game. What a joke from the "state of hockey".
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: jeh25 (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 03:42PM
[Q]Stephen Turner Wrote:
Minnesota deserves a #1 over us? [/q]
Yes, for two reasons:
First, we lose the direct pairwise comparision.
You need to know how these criteria are applied before you complain.
Second, they're ahead of us using the Bradley-Terry method:
[www.uscho.com]
Minnesota deserves a #1 over us? [/q]
Yes, for two reasons:
First, we lose the direct pairwise comparision.
Minnesota vs Cornell
.5680 0 RPI 1 .5882
22-10-0 .6875 1 TUC 0 .6563 9-4-3
1-0-0 1.000 1 COp 0 .2500 0-1-1
0-0-0 0 H2H 0 0-0-0
2 TOT 1
You need to know how these criteria are applied before you complain.
Second, they're ahead of us using the Bradley-Terry method:
[www.uscho.com]
___________________________
Cornell '98 '00; Yale 01-03; UConn 03-07; Brown 07-09; Penn State faculty 09-
Work is no longer an excuse to live near an ECACHL team...
Cornell '98 '00; Yale 01-03; UConn 03-07; Brown 07-09; Penn State faculty 09-
Work is no longer an excuse to live near an ECACHL team...
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: atb9 (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 03:49PM
[Q]French Rage Wrote:
I agree. Quit whining. #1 would be nice, but these games are definitely winnable. sure Minnesota has a good home crowd, but it sure as shit hasnt helped them at times this year. And their goalie sucks. So while nothing is a given anything is possible.
Plus they have cheerleaders. Cheerleaders at a fucking hockey game. What a joke from the "state of hockey".[/q]
It seems like we're all coming to a consensus that these games are winnable in Minneapolis. Can people be upset that most of us won't be able to see the regional games in person?
I think people would be less upset if they knew they'd be able to watch the OSU game on TV.
If my memory serves me correctly from Buffalo, those skating cheerleaders made me quite jealous of Minnesota hockey--it's proof of how popular hockey is in Minnesota. It's not like it was W on skates...
I agree. Quit whining. #1 would be nice, but these games are definitely winnable. sure Minnesota has a good home crowd, but it sure as shit hasnt helped them at times this year. And their goalie sucks. So while nothing is a given anything is possible.
Plus they have cheerleaders. Cheerleaders at a fucking hockey game. What a joke from the "state of hockey".[/q]
It seems like we're all coming to a consensus that these games are winnable in Minneapolis. Can people be upset that most of us won't be able to see the regional games in person?
I think people would be less upset if they knew they'd be able to watch the OSU game on TV.
If my memory serves me correctly from Buffalo, those skating cheerleaders made me quite jealous of Minnesota hockey--it's proof of how popular hockey is in Minnesota. It's not like it was W on skates...
___________________________
24 is the devil
24 is the devil
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: jy3 (---.buff.east.verizon.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 03:53PM
[Q]atb9 Wrote:
French Rage Wrote:
I agree. Quit whining. #1 would be nice, but these games are definitely winnable. sure Minnesota has a good home crowd, but it sure as shit hasnt helped them at times this year. And their goalie sucks. So while nothing is a given anything is possible.
Plus they have cheerleaders. Cheerleaders at a fucking hockey game. What a joke from the "state of hockey".[/Q]
It seems like we're all coming to a consensus that these games are winnable in Minneapolis. Can people be upset that most of us won't be able to see the regional games in person? I think people would be less upset if they knew they'd be able to watch the OSU game on TV.
If my memory serves me correctly from Buffalo, those skating cheerleaders made me quite jealous of Minnesota hockey--it's proof of how popular hockey is in Minnesota. It's not like it was W on skates...[/q]
or a big large puck or buckeye or whatever the hell he is. MAKE FUN OF HIM! we had fun doing this at the regionals in 2003. remember to give those tosu fans hell for having that odd mascott.
i am ready for these games. not sure if i am going to be able to watch or listen to round 1 to see the results of the 2 games in our bracket but i have faith. LGR!
edit: woofing gods, by "these games" I am referring to the first round of games, namely 2, in our bracket, and I am not referring to the second game that cornell would play if they won.
___________________________
LGR!!!!!!!!!!
jy3 '00
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2005 03:53PM by jy3.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: jeh25 (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 04:00PM
[Q]French Rage Wrote:
Plus they have cheerleaders. Cheerleaders at a fucking hockey game. [/q]
Maybe Hermo can find the old USCHO thread, because, dude, they're [censored] hot.
Plus they have cheerleaders. Cheerleaders at a fucking hockey game. [/q]
Maybe Hermo can find the old USCHO thread, because, dude, they're [censored] hot.
___________________________
Cornell '98 '00; Yale 01-03; UConn 03-07; Brown 07-09; Penn State faculty 09-
Work is no longer an excuse to live near an ECACHL team...
Cornell '98 '00; Yale 01-03; UConn 03-07; Brown 07-09; Penn State faculty 09-
Work is no longer an excuse to live near an ECACHL team...
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: RichS (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 04:03PM
Agreed....go out there and win the games...do the ECAC proud!
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Stephen Turner (---.nyc.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 04:09PM
Those of us who planned to go to the games if they were in Amherst or Worcester, and can't get to Minnesota, have every right to be pissed about the seeding.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: jeh25 (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 04:23PM
[Q]Stephen Turner Wrote:
Those of us who planned to go to the games if they were in Amherst or Worcester, and can't get to Minnesota, have every right to be pissed about the seeding.[/q]
Amherst and Worcester are 71 & 81 miles from my house, respectively, and Worcester, with its' Friday games, is only 48 miles from my office. Where do you think I wanted Cornell to get seeded? Especially since I passed on going to Albany to save money for an NCAA ticket? Hmm?
Doesn't change the fact that Cornell was seeded properly.
Grow a set or get a helmet.
Those of us who planned to go to the games if they were in Amherst or Worcester, and can't get to Minnesota, have every right to be pissed about the seeding.[/q]
Amherst and Worcester are 71 & 81 miles from my house, respectively, and Worcester, with its' Friday games, is only 48 miles from my office. Where do you think I wanted Cornell to get seeded? Especially since I passed on going to Albany to save money for an NCAA ticket? Hmm?
Doesn't change the fact that Cornell was seeded properly.
Grow a set or get a helmet.
___________________________
Cornell '98 '00; Yale 01-03; UConn 03-07; Brown 07-09; Penn State faculty 09-
Work is no longer an excuse to live near an ECACHL team...
Cornell '98 '00; Yale 01-03; UConn 03-07; Brown 07-09; Penn State faculty 09-
Work is no longer an excuse to live near an ECACHL team...
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: atb9 (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 04:30PM
"I just felt like playing a little violin, Kyle."
___________________________
24 is the devil
24 is the devil
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: CowbellGuy (Moderator)
Date: March 20, 2005 04:46PM
What the fuck is seeding "properly" when they arbitrarily switch 2 and 3 and give no reason?
___________________________
"[Hugh] Jessiman turned out to be a huge specimen of something alright." --Puck Daddy
"[Hugh] Jessiman turned out to be a huge specimen of something alright." --Puck Daddy
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2005 04:54PM by CowbellGuy.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: jeh25 (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 05:06PM
[Q]CowbellGuy Wrote:
What the fuck is seeding "properly" when they arbitrarily switch 2 and 3 and give no reason?[/q]
The esteemed Mr. Turner's complaint was about MN being a 1 seed while we were a 2 seed.
Denver and CC getting swapped affects that how? Seems to me we still get seeded behind MN regardless.
What the fuck is seeding "properly" when they arbitrarily switch 2 and 3 and give no reason?[/q]
The esteemed Mr. Turner's complaint was about MN being a 1 seed while we were a 2 seed.
Denver and CC getting swapped affects that how? Seems to me we still get seeded behind MN regardless.
___________________________
Cornell '98 '00; Yale 01-03; UConn 03-07; Brown 07-09; Penn State faculty 09-
Work is no longer an excuse to live near an ECACHL team...
Cornell '98 '00; Yale 01-03; UConn 03-07; Brown 07-09; Penn State faculty 09-
Work is no longer an excuse to live near an ECACHL team...
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: calgARI '07 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 05:12PM
[Q]jeh25 Wrote:
CowbellGuy Wrote:
What the fuck is seeding "properly" when they arbitrarily switch 2 and 3 and give no reason?[/Q]
The esteemed Mr. Turner's complaint was about MN being a 1 seed while we were a 2 seed.
Denver and CC getting swapped affects that how? Seems to me we still get seeded behind MN regardless.[/q]
I think the point he is making is that the committee seemingly bent over backwards to not go by the selection criteria in accomodating Denver but didn't do the same for Cornell. I'm also unclear as to how Michigan gets to go to Grand Rapids. Anyways, his point is well-taken because nobody here would be nearly as pissed off had those changes not been made.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: jkahn (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 05:21PM
If they would've gone:
1-8-9-16
2-7-10-15
3-6-12-14
4-5-11-13
I don't think there'd be that much bitching about us going Minn.,
but when they go
1-7-12-16
2-6-11-14
3-8-9-15
4-5-10-13
and state that subjectivity is now part of the process, then you wonder how well they really thought out the possibilities and whether they even considered:
1-8-9-16
2-7-10-15
3-5-12-14
4-6-11-13, which would have kept us and Colgate east in addition to BC, BU, H and UNH, and only required swapping the 6-11 game with the 5-12 as compared with perfect seeding.
1-8-9-16
2-7-10-15
3-6-12-14
4-5-11-13
I don't think there'd be that much bitching about us going Minn.,
but when they go
1-7-12-16
2-6-11-14
3-8-9-15
4-5-10-13
and state that subjectivity is now part of the process, then you wonder how well they really thought out the possibilities and whether they even considered:
1-8-9-16
2-7-10-15
3-5-12-14
4-6-11-13, which would have kept us and Colgate east in addition to BC, BU, H and UNH, and only required swapping the 6-11 game with the 5-12 as compared with perfect seeding.
___________________________
Jeff Kahn '70 '72
Jeff Kahn '70 '72
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Jeff Hopkins '82 (---.airproducts.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 05:37PM
Let's face the reality.
They needed a justification to put Michigan in Grand Rapids. Otherwise the gate in that reagion would suck. After that, they knew they had free reign to toss the PWR out our apply the PWR strictly as they needed to.
Welcome back to the smoke-filled room.
They needed a justification to put Michigan in Grand Rapids. Otherwise the gate in that reagion would suck. After that, they knew they had free reign to toss the PWR out our apply the PWR strictly as they needed to.
Welcome back to the smoke-filled room.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: calgARI '07 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 05:43PM
As I have said, this is the best case scenarios for the usual suspects: Minnesota, BC, Michigan. The little schools that won't generate the huge TV dollars in the Frozen Four, Cornell and CC, get just about the worst case scenarios. I think it would have only been worse for Cornell had they been matched up with Wisconsin in the first round (they play on the international ice surface).
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: adamw (209.71.42.---)
Date: March 20, 2005 05:43PM
They didn't need to swap CC and Denver to justify putting Michigan in Grand Rapids.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Oat (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 05:46PM
I have said this before many times. I'll say it again. Minnesota is the most overrated team in the nation. They suck. They just suck. Their fans are idiots too. I am disappointed that Cornell doesn't get to play in the East Coast. I am dissappointed because I won't be able to travel. But at the same time, I am glad that we only have to get through Ohio State and this aforementioned overrated team to be in the frozen four. Our team has a relatively easy bracket compared to Wisconsin, Michigan, CC. I think that those three teams are all better than Minnesota. So I can't complain there.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: ugarte (---.ny325.east.verizon.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 05:52PM
[Q]calgARI '07 Wrote:
As I have said, this is the best case scenarios for the usual suspects: Minnesota, BC, Michigan. The little schools that won't generate the huge TV dollars in the Frozen Four, Cornell and CC, get just about the worst case scenarios. I think it would have only been worse for Cornell had they been matched up with Wisconsin in the first round (they play on the international ice surface).[/q]Even if you have said it before, and even if you say it again, it still won't matter: NOBODY will bring in huge TV dollars for the Frozen Four. It gets ratings similar to an informercial.
As I have said, this is the best case scenarios for the usual suspects: Minnesota, BC, Michigan. The little schools that won't generate the huge TV dollars in the Frozen Four, Cornell and CC, get just about the worst case scenarios. I think it would have only been worse for Cornell had they been matched up with Wisconsin in the first round (they play on the international ice surface).[/q]Even if you have said it before, and even if you say it again, it still won't matter: NOBODY will bring in huge TV dollars for the Frozen Four. It gets ratings similar to an informercial.
___________________________
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quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Scersk '97 (---.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 05:54PM
Personally, I think the seeding was an unintentional gift. Take a look at this chart:
1) We ended up with the worst available #3 seed, since we couldn't play Harvard again.
2) Our region's #1 seed ended up with the best available #4 seed.
3) Obviously, we ended up with the worst available #1 seed, as we should as the overall #5.
Results:
1) We have the best chance of winning our first round game of any of the #2 seeds. Look at Michigan.
2) We have almost the same chance as Minnesota of making Columbus.
3) We match up well with Ohio State and Maine. Minnesota? Well, we'll have to "settle it on the ice," I guess.
Would it have been better to receive the #1, #2, or #3? Sure. Did we really deserve it? I don't think so. If BC had choked? Sure. If Denver or CC had choked and not made their final? Sure. But, as the results of the games fell out, we were a #4 or #5. If we were #4, we'd still end up facing Maine most likely, though I haven't worked it out. The difference between Maine and Ohio State is not that much.
We can bitch and moan about not being kept east, but them's the breaks. I like the bracket. We, hopefully, beat OS, whom we didn't get a chance to play this year and is becoming a non-conference rival of sorts; show up Minnesota on their home ice; play BU, BC, or North Dakota, all rivals (North Dakota to exorcise some demons of the past--'68, '97); and then play, maybe, UHN, Harvard, Denver, or CC for the championship.
Those are my dreams, filled with hate and exorcisms.
Regional/Seed Team KRACH 1st Game Columbus
West
4 Minnesota 620.4 0.672010399 0.375878081
5 Cornell 592.6 0.630358473 0.343782959
10 Ohio State 347.5 0.369641527 0.1539689
13 Maine 302.8 0.327989601 0.12637006
Midwest
3 CC 1031 0.822497008 0.533493632
6 Michigan 619.7 0.560003615 0.246058638
11 Wisconsin 486.9 0.439996385 0.169690817
14 Colgate 222.5 0.177502992 0.050756914
East
1 BC 642.5 0.974562774 0.584218271
7 North Dakota 469.1 0.549619215 0.239539965
12 BU 384.4 0.450380785 0.175280302
16 Mercyhurst 16.77 0.025437226 0.000961463
Northeast
2 Denver 975.8 0.901681759 0.649827644
8 UHN 428.9 0.576788596 0.204234035
9 Harvard 314.7 0.423211404 0.124152959
15 Bemidji 106.4 0.098318241 0.021785361
These numbers are, of course, based on KRACH, and may only reveal advantages rather than percentages, but it's worth a ponder:
1) We ended up with the worst available #3 seed, since we couldn't play Harvard again.
2) Our region's #1 seed ended up with the best available #4 seed.
3) Obviously, we ended up with the worst available #1 seed, as we should as the overall #5.
Results:
1) We have the best chance of winning our first round game of any of the #2 seeds. Look at Michigan.
2) We have almost the same chance as Minnesota of making Columbus.
3) We match up well with Ohio State and Maine. Minnesota? Well, we'll have to "settle it on the ice," I guess.
Would it have been better to receive the #1, #2, or #3? Sure. Did we really deserve it? I don't think so. If BC had choked? Sure. If Denver or CC had choked and not made their final? Sure. But, as the results of the games fell out, we were a #4 or #5. If we were #4, we'd still end up facing Maine most likely, though I haven't worked it out. The difference between Maine and Ohio State is not that much.
We can bitch and moan about not being kept east, but them's the breaks. I like the bracket. We, hopefully, beat OS, whom we didn't get a chance to play this year and is becoming a non-conference rival of sorts; show up Minnesota on their home ice; play BU, BC, or North Dakota, all rivals (North Dakota to exorcise some demons of the past--'68, '97); and then play, maybe, UHN, Harvard, Denver, or CC for the championship.
Those are my dreams, filled with hate and exorcisms.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2005 07:36PM by Scersk '97.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: calgARI '07 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 05:56PM
[Q]Oat Wrote:
I have said this before many times. I'll say it again. Minnesota is the most overrated team in the nation. They suck. They just suck. Their fans are idiots too. I am disappointed that Cornell doesn't get to play in the East Coast. I am dissappointed because I won't be able to travel. But at the same time, I am glad that we only have to get through Ohio State and this aforementioned overrated team to be in the frozen four. Our team has a relatively easy bracket compared to Wisconsin, Michigan, CC. I think that those three teams are all better than Minnesota. So I can't complain there.[/q]
Just factoring in who the teams are, Cornell has a really good draw. However, when factoring in the ice surface and the fact that it is at U of M, things get a little more scary. Still, the draw is not bad at all. I really like the fact that they have spring break this week so they can totally focus on making the adjustments necessary.
I have said this before many times. I'll say it again. Minnesota is the most overrated team in the nation. They suck. They just suck. Their fans are idiots too. I am disappointed that Cornell doesn't get to play in the East Coast. I am dissappointed because I won't be able to travel. But at the same time, I am glad that we only have to get through Ohio State and this aforementioned overrated team to be in the frozen four. Our team has a relatively easy bracket compared to Wisconsin, Michigan, CC. I think that those three teams are all better than Minnesota. So I can't complain there.[/q]
Just factoring in who the teams are, Cornell has a really good draw. However, when factoring in the ice surface and the fact that it is at U of M, things get a little more scary. Still, the draw is not bad at all. I really like the fact that they have spring break this week so they can totally focus on making the adjustments necessary.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: KeithK (---.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 06:30PM
Come on. Let us have our bitching for one day. People are pissed that we have to travel to Minnesota, where there will be few Cornell fans in attendance and a big ice sheet. The seeding subjectivity (Denver-CC) and the extreme closeness in the Minny-Cornell comparison make it pretty reasonable that people are upset. So rather than yelling "stop BITCHING", how about this: Get your bitching out of your system today and then forget about it and start thinking about how we're going to play against OSU and then hopefully Maine/Minnesota.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Jeff Hopkins '82 (---.airproducts.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 06:42PM
[Q]adamw Wrote:
They didn't need to swap CC and Denver to justify putting Michigan in Grand Rapids.[/q]
I realize that. It's just a slippery slope kind of thing. Once you make one rationalization, the next becomes that much easier. Once you allow one subjectivity, the next one becomes easier.
And you lose the good thing that we had, flawed as it is.
They didn't need to swap CC and Denver to justify putting Michigan in Grand Rapids.[/q]
I realize that. It's just a slippery slope kind of thing. Once you make one rationalization, the next becomes that much easier. Once you allow one subjectivity, the next one becomes easier.
And you lose the good thing that we had, flawed as it is.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: KeithK (---.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 07:04PM
In fairness, the awarding of at-large bids was still done by a completely objective set of criteria. Seeding subjectively is less of a concern to me, and Adam based on his recent USCHO article.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Stephen Turner (---.nyc.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 07:04PM
Well said. And by the way, it's the esteemed Dr. Turner.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: marty (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 07:06PM
Yes but I think we may top them in the Sanford-Binet test. 
Seriously, thanks for starting this thread. The only tests that count will be on the ice.
Seriously, thanks for starting this thread. The only tests that count will be on the ice.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 08:27PM
[Q]calgARI '07 Wrote: As I have said, this is the best case scenarios for the usual suspects: Minnesota, BC, Michigan. The little schools that won't generate the huge TV dollars in the Frozen Four, Cornell and CC, get just about the worst case scenarios. I think it would have only been worse for Cornell had they been matched up with Wisconsin in the first round (they play on the international ice surface).[/q]"Huge tV dollars" and "college hockey" cannot be used correctly in the same sentence.
For those who were there in person and didn't get to see the broadcasts Friday (better announcers) or Saturday (better game), on Friday the commercials were stacked in four-plus minute blocks early in the first periods but were the same advertisers over and over. (Still, there was more variety than the NCAAs of about two years ago.)
For those who were there in person and didn't get to see the broadcasts Friday (better announcers) or Saturday (better game), on Friday the commercials were stacked in four-plus minute blocks early in the first periods but were the same advertisers over and over. (Still, there was more variety than the NCAAs of about two years ago.)
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Mike Nevin (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 08:54PM
Any good "Quit BITCHING" thread ends up being a "Keep BITCHING" thread, so here goes.
I think Cornell got screwed in that the # 1 seeds really should first go to teams who might actually be the number one team in the country. College hockey is too small, with too little interaction between the leagues for the statistics to accurately reflect who deserves what. But, any idiot can look at the recent results, and recent polls which to some degree reflect expert opinion and determine that:
Minnesota is not the best team in the country.
Any one of CC, Denver, BC, Cornell, and Michigan might acutally be. The have clearly excelled against any of their recent competion, they haven't played each other, or anyone out of their own leagues recently.
As for the DU / CC 2-3 not following the official criteria -- to that I have to say that the commitee got it right. If two teams play the night before selection, and are otherwise extremely close, I think you have to give the nod to the winner.
My advice to the committee -- Objectively Select. Subjectively seed.
I think Cornell got screwed in that the # 1 seeds really should first go to teams who might actually be the number one team in the country. College hockey is too small, with too little interaction between the leagues for the statistics to accurately reflect who deserves what. But, any idiot can look at the recent results, and recent polls which to some degree reflect expert opinion and determine that:
Minnesota is not the best team in the country.
Any one of CC, Denver, BC, Cornell, and Michigan might acutally be. The have clearly excelled against any of their recent competion, they haven't played each other, or anyone out of their own leagues recently.
As for the DU / CC 2-3 not following the official criteria -- to that I have to say that the commitee got it right. If two teams play the night before selection, and are otherwise extremely close, I think you have to give the nod to the winner.
My advice to the committee -- Objectively Select. Subjectively seed.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Jeff Hopkins '82 (---.airproducts.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 08:59PM
Well if you're going to seed subjectively, then do it consistently. Don't do it when it suits you and then do it strictly by the numbers in other cases.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: judy (---.dc.dc.cox.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 09:16PM
[Q]billhoward Wrote:
"Huge tV dollars" and "hockey" cannot be used correctly in the same sentence.
[/q]
fixed your post...
"Huge tV dollars" and "hockey" cannot be used correctly in the same sentence.
[/q]
fixed your post...
Re: Quit BITCHING and stare at the brackets every day
Posted by: atb9 (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 09:52PM
[www.insidecollegehockey.com]
If you don't mind staring at the bracket and an INCH logo, INCH made up a bracket wallpaper.
If you don't mind staring at the bracket and an INCH logo, INCH made up a bracket wallpaper.
___________________________
24 is the devil
24 is the devil
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 09:56PM
Pro hockey fans are more well-heeled that pro basketball fans, I believe I've read. 'Course, there's a lot *more* pro basketball fans and pro basketball fans who sit in front of TV.
HDTV will help hockey more than it helps basketball, unless you're dying to see what the squeakballers' tattoos read.
HDTV will help hockey more than it helps basketball, unless you're dying to see what the squeakballers' tattoos read.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: jeh25 (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 10:46PM
[Q]Mike Nevin Wrote:
College hockey is too small, with too little interaction between the leagues for the statistics to accurately reflect who deserves what.
[/q]
Two words: Bradley. Terry.
Until you can explain in detail how it works, I don't think you have have any basis for your statement that isn't just a giant asspull.
College hockey is too small, with too little interaction between the leagues for the statistics to accurately reflect who deserves what.
[/q]
Two words: Bradley. Terry.
Until you can explain in detail how it works, I don't think you have have any basis for your statement that isn't just a giant asspull.
___________________________
Cornell '98 '00; Yale 01-03; UConn 03-07; Brown 07-09; Penn State faculty 09-
Work is no longer an excuse to live near an ECACHL team...
Cornell '98 '00; Yale 01-03; UConn 03-07; Brown 07-09; Penn State faculty 09-
Work is no longer an excuse to live near an ECACHL team...
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Chief AA Bear (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 11:13PM
I think we DESERVED to play in the East, where our primary fan base could be there to cheer the Big Red on, especially after we "shutdown" all the competition at the ECACHL championship, including those misfit LOSERS from 'Vlad-land'. THEY deserved to be "ON THE BIG SHEET" in MN !!
I was releshing a potential rematch with UNH.
Let's GO BIG RED!!!!!
-- Da Bear
I was releshing a potential rematch with UNH.
Let's GO BIG RED!!!!!
-- Da Bear
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: March 20, 2005 11:19PM
[Q]Mike Nevin Wrote:... I think Cornell got screwed in that the # 1 seeds really should first go to teams who might actually be the number one team in the country. College hockey is too small, with too little interaction between the leagues for the statistics to accurately reflect who deserves what. But, any idiot can look at the recent results, and recent polls which to some degree reflect expert opinion and determine that: Minnesota is not the best team in the country. ... Any one of CC, Denver, BC, Cornell, and Michigan might acutally be. The have clearly excelled against any of their recent competion, they haven't played each other, or anyone out of their own leagues recently. ... As for the DU / CC 2-3 not following the official criteria -- to that I have to say that the commitee got it right. If two teams play the night before selection, and are otherwise extremely close, I think you have to give the nod to the winner. ... My advice to the committee -- Objectively Select. Subjectively seed. [/q]Excellent thoughts, suggestions, and conclusions. Three to four decimal places of precision in KRACH, RPI, PWR, doesn't equal the same degree of accuracy, repeatability, projectability. Does anyone really think BC is the best team in the country right now?
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Chief AA Bear (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: March 20, 2005 11:19PM
Hi, All,
I should note that CC and DU have just as much reason to complain as i doubt many of their fans are coming cross country to the East.
I also have a big problem with MN "hosting" a playoff set on their own ice, when THEY are playing in that set.
GO MAINE BLACK BEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STOMP THE GOPHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here's hoping for an 'all BEAR' final in MN, with the "RED" bears finally triumphing !!
-- Da Bear
I should note that CC and DU have just as much reason to complain as i doubt many of their fans are coming cross country to the East.
I also have a big problem with MN "hosting" a playoff set on their own ice, when THEY are playing in that set.
GO MAINE BLACK BEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STOMP THE GOPHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here's hoping for an 'all BEAR' final in MN, with the "RED" bears finally triumphing !!
-- Da Bear
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: KP '06 (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: March 21, 2005 01:11AM
Quit bitching about seeding ...
and start bitching about the ECACHL woofing from on high.
[www.ecachockeyleague.com] :
Cornell, which has an overall record of 26-4-3, will travel out West and play at Mariucci Arena in Minneapolis. The Big Red will face Ohio State on March 26 and will face the winner of the Maine-Minnesota contest the next day.
:: slaps forehead::
and start bitching about the ECACHL woofing from on high.
[www.ecachockeyleague.com] :
Cornell, which has an overall record of 26-4-3, will travel out West and play at Mariucci Arena in Minneapolis. The Big Red will face Ohio State on March 26 and will face the winner of the Maine-Minnesota contest the next day.
:: slaps forehead::
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Trotsky (---.cust-rtr.swbell.net)
Date: March 21, 2005 08:14AM
D'oh.
At least they're quietly confident.
At least they're quietly confident.
Records against seeds 1-14
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.ne.client2.attbi.com)
Date: March 21, 2005 09:39AM
To pass time this morning, reviewed the records of the top 14 seeds against each other as they go into the tournament. Not sure there are any strong conclusions except that the records of BC, Denver, and CC appear to support their getting the top three seeds. Bemidji and Mercyhurst were a combined 0-6-1 against other tournament teams so I discounted those seven games so as not to distort the results. [Disclaimer: Errors in counting are possible, even probable.]
BC 11-3-3
CC 11-6-1
Denver 10-6-1
Minn 9-9
Cornell 4-2-1
Michigan 3-3-1
N Dak 8-10-2
UNH 4-5-4
Harvard 5-4
Ohio St 1-3-1
BU 5-11-2
Wisco 8-8-2
Maine 3-9-2
Colgate 3-2-1
Dartmouth, by the way, finished 4-3-1, with a win or tie against every tournament team played.
BC 11-3-3
CC 11-6-1
Denver 10-6-1
Minn 9-9
Cornell 4-2-1
Michigan 3-3-1
N Dak 8-10-2
UNH 4-5-4
Harvard 5-4
Ohio St 1-3-1
BU 5-11-2
Wisco 8-8-2
Maine 3-9-2
Colgate 3-2-1
Dartmouth, by the way, finished 4-3-1, with a win or tie against every tournament team played.
___________________________
Al DeFlorio '65
Al DeFlorio '65
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Josh 03 (---.rtp.epa.gov)
Date: March 21, 2005 10:20AM
This unique team cheers and performs on the ice and in the stands at all home hockey games. They will make special appearances on occasion, and put in approximately 6-8 hours per week. Hockey cheerleaders practice with a skating instructor and a strength coach throughout the entire year. They do not compete at the national level, yet they are a huge addition to the Golden Gopher hockey atmosphere and have even been featured in Sports Illustrated. The team consists of 9-12 female members, and all hockey cheerleaders are required to have figure skating skills, as they perform figure skating routines between periods, skating, stunting and dancing on the ice.
USCHO Article with a pic:
[www.uscho.com]
The Hockey Cheer Team Rules; PDF File. Pretty serious stuff!
[www.gophersports.com]
I took a few pictures when we were in Buffalo. If I get a chance to scan them, PM me and I can send them your way.
~Josh
[Q]jeh25 Wrote:
French Rage Wrote:
Plus they have cheerleaders. Cheerleaders at a fucking hockey game. [/Q]
Maybe Hermo can find the old USCHO thread, because, dude, they're hot.[/q]
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Ack (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 21, 2005 10:31AM
I filled out my registration form
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (---.ligo-la.caltech.edu)
Date: March 21, 2005 11:00AM
[Q]Scersk '97 Wrote:
Personally, I think the seeding was an unintentional gift. Take a look at this chart:
Regional/Seed Team KRACH 1st Game Columbus[/q]
Cool. Hadn't gotten around that. But to account for having to play Minny at home, you should use KASA. (just change krach to kasa in the USCHO URL.)
Personally, I think the seeding was an unintentional gift. Take a look at this chart:
Regional/Seed Team KRACH 1st Game Columbus[/q]
Cool. Hadn't gotten around that. But to account for having to play Minny at home, you should use KASA. (just change krach to kasa in the USCHO URL.)
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Josh 03 (---.rtp.epa.gov)
Date: March 21, 2005 11:09AM
[Q]Ack Wrote:
I filled out my registration form[/q]
You mean your application form. You really think you're good enough to be a on the Gopher Skating Cheer Squad? Better wait until tryouts.
Though I do know someone who "knows" they would make make it if they had cared to try out...
RichS.
I filled out my registration form[/q]
You mean your application form. You really think you're good enough to be a on the Gopher Skating Cheer Squad? Better wait until tryouts.
Though I do know someone who "knows" they would make make it if they had cared to try out...
RichS.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Jeff Hopkins '82 (---.airproducts.com)
Date: March 21, 2005 01:05PM
[Q]French Rage Wrote:
is a given anything is possible.
Plus they have cheerleaders. Cheerleaders at a fucking hockey game. What a joke from the "state of hockey".[/q]
They tried cheerleaders at Lynah in 81. They lasted a game or two, but decided to give up after all the boo-ing.
As it should be.
is a given anything is possible.
Plus they have cheerleaders. Cheerleaders at a fucking hockey game. What a joke from the "state of hockey".[/q]
They tried cheerleaders at Lynah in 81. They lasted a game or two, but decided to give up after all the boo-ing.
As it should be.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: CrazyLarry (---.caltech.edu)
Date: March 21, 2005 01:32PM
Didn't even know KASA was on USCHO. Cool. Why isn't there a link to it?
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Scersk '97 (---.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net)
Date: March 21, 2005 02:56PM
Well, at John's suggestion:
Regional Seed Team KRACH KASA AdjKASA 1st KRACH CBS KRACH 1st KASA CBS KASA
====================================================================================================
West
4 Minnesota 620.4 589.9 663.81447 0.672010399 0.375878081 0.722725857 0.437741494
5 Cornell 592.6 590.7 524.89602 0.630358473 0.343782959 0.635639729 0.321522712
10 Ohio State 347.5 338.6 300.87996 0.369641527 0.1539689 0.364360271 0.136846435
13 Maine 302.8 286.6 254.67276 0.327989601 0.12637006 0.277274143 0.103889358
Midwest
3 CC 1031 990.1 879.80286 0.822497008 0.533493632 0.820366228 0.499580909
6 Michigan 619.7 605 680.8065 0.560003615 0.246058638 0.627350954 0.312354127
11 Wisconsin 486.9 455.1 404.40186 0.439996385 0.169690817 0.372649046 0.141609953
14 Colgate 222.5 216.8 192.64848 0.177502992 0.050756914 0.179633772 0.046455011
East
1 BC 642.5 611.7 688.34601 0.974562774 0.584218271 0.975703179 0.61520187
7 N Dakota 469.1 451.7 401.38062 0.549619215 0.239539965 0.497550283 0.190404487
12 BU 384.4 360.2 405.33306 0.450380785 0.175280302 0.502449717 0.193403214
16 Mercyhurst 16.77 19.29 17.141094 0.025437226 0.000961463 0.024296821 0.00099043
Northeast
2 Denver 975.8 940.4 835.63944 0.901681759 0.649827644 0.892220114 0.643235671
8 UHN 428.9 413.5 367.4361 0.576788596 0.204234035 0.578079128 0.206401875
9 Harvard 314.7 301.8 268.17948 0.423211404 0.124152959 0.421920872 0.124498489
15 Bemidji 106.4 113.6 100.94496 0.098318241 0.021785361 0.107779886 0.025863965
At home: Minnesota, Michigan, BC, and BU. I, arbitrarily, made Amherst an away game for UHN more because Amherst is small and unfamiliar than because of any great drive distance (2-3 hrs).
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: DeltaOne81 (---.bos.east.verizon.net)
Date: March 21, 2005 03:05PM
Am I correct in assuming:
AdjKASA = based on who's home and who's away
1st ____ = odds of winning the first game based on ____ ranking (adj for KASA)
CBS ____ = odds of winning the regional game based on ____ ranking (adj for KASA)
AdjKASA = based on who's home and who's away
1st ____ = odds of winning the first game based on ____ ranking (adj for KASA)
CBS ____ = odds of winning the regional game based on ____ ranking (adj for KASA)
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: CrazyLarry (---.caltech.edu)
Date: March 21, 2005 03:28PM
Actually, Amherst is 200x95, almost Olympic, so I don't see how that's a size problem for UNH.
I would say the right thing is to make all games neutral except actual home games (i.e. Minnesota).
You could argue crowds for BC, BU and Michigan, but I would think UHN will also get plenty of crowd support at Amherst. But crowd support and actual home rink are two different things.
I would say the right thing is to make all games neutral except actual home games (i.e. Minnesota).
You could argue crowds for BC, BU and Michigan, but I would think UHN will also get plenty of crowd support at Amherst. But crowd support and actual home rink are two different things.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (---.ligo-la.caltech.edu)
Date: March 21, 2005 03:47PM
[Q]CrazyLarry Wrote:
Didn't even know KASA was on USCHO. Cool. Why isn't there a link to it?[/q]
That question is above my (nonexistent) paycheck.
Didn't even know KASA was on USCHO. Cool. Why isn't there a link to it?[/q]
That question is above my (nonexistent) paycheck.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (---.ligo-la.caltech.edu)
Date: March 21, 2005 03:54PM
[Q]CrazyLarry Wrote:
I would say the right thing is to make all games neutral except actual home games (i.e. Minnesota).[/q]
That would also be consistent with how the KASA was calculated, considering e.g., a game at the Joe to be neutral-site for MSU even if they get the last change. I actually have a script somewhere on USCHO to calculate these probabilities directly.
I would say the right thing is to make all games neutral except actual home games (i.e. Minnesota).[/q]
That would also be consistent with how the KASA was calculated, considering e.g., a game at the Joe to be neutral-site for MSU even if they get the last change. I actually have a script somewhere on USCHO to calculate these probabilities directly.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Scersk '97 (---.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net)
Date: March 21, 2005 04:45PM
[Q]jtwcornell91 Wrote:
CrazyLarry Wrote:
I would say the right thing is to make all games neutral except actual home games (i.e. Minnesota).[/Q]
That would also be consistent with how the KASA was calculated, considering e.g., a game at the Joe to be neutral-site for MSU even if they get the last change. I actually have a script somewhere on USCHO to calculate these probabilities directly.[/q]
Ahhahaha, but it doesn't matter! If both teams have their KASA "adjusted" towards an "away" match but are meeting at a neutral site, then it's the same as comparing their unadjusted KASA's.
k1 = KASA of team 1
k2 = KASA of team 2
a1 = "away" KASA of team 1 = A * k1
a2 = "away" KASA of team 2 = A * k2
k1 / (k1 + k2) = a1 / (a1 + a2) = A * k1 / (A * k1 + A * k2) = A * k1 / A (k1 + k2) = k1 / (k1 + k2)
So, if you've adjusted for home and away, it'll only matter if an away team meets a home team. If two home teams meet each other or two away teams meet each other, the home or away adjustment cancels out. No? Perhaps I've been away from math for too long...
Oh, and I'm just guessing regarding the second order effects. I don't feel like doing the proof.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2005 04:53PM by Scersk '97.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: KeithK (---.external.lmco.com)
Date: March 21, 2005 04:48PM
[q]If two home teams meet each other or two away teams meet each other, the home or away adjustment cancels out. No?[/q]So that means we don't have to adjust the rankings of Yale and Quinnipiac in next years tournament predictions, right?
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Scersk '97 (---.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net)
Date: March 21, 2005 04:50PM
[Q]DeltaOne81 Wrote:
Am I correct in assuming:
AdjKASA = based on who's home and who's away
1st ____ = odds of winning the first game based on ____ ranking (adj for KASA)
CBS ____ = odds of winning the regional game based on ____ ranking (adj for KASA)[/q]
Yes, yes, and yes. The last is "making it to Columbus."
Am I correct in assuming:
AdjKASA = based on who's home and who's away
1st ____ = odds of winning the first game based on ____ ranking (adj for KASA)
CBS ____ = odds of winning the regional game based on ____ ranking (adj for KASA)[/q]
Yes, yes, and yes. The last is "making it to Columbus."
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: CrazyLarry (---.caltech.edu)
Date: March 21, 2005 05:00PM
Yes Scott. I knew that. I didn't think through that the whole Amherst regional was Away, so it didn't matter. I thought you were mentioning UNH as away because it made a difference.
I guess it's the BC and Mich regions that would make a difference.
I guess it's the BC and Mich regions that would make a difference.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Scersk '97 (---.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net)
Date: March 21, 2005 05:05PM
Yeah, it was more a convenience for the spreadsheet than anything else. I made the comment that I did more because I had a home team at every other regional, so UHN would've been the logical one at Amherst. In fact, since I made Michigan home at GR, I should make UHN home at Amherst. I guess I've opened up my own "can of worms."
I just like doing math now that I don't have to, you know...
I just like doing math now that I don't have to, you know...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2005 05:07PM by Scersk '97.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: CrazyLarry (---.caltech.edu)
Date: March 21, 2005 05:07PM
As I recall, I don't remember you doing too much back then, either....
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Scersk '97 (---.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net)
Date: March 21, 2005 05:11PM
Now, now, let's not bring up my "gentleman's Cs..."
And you'll never be able to find the money that I've hidden away in my secret offshore bank account! Oh crap! I shouldn't have mentioned the secret bank account.
PS Don't tell the bones.
And you'll never be able to find the money that I've hidden away in my secret offshore bank account! Oh crap! I shouldn't have mentioned the secret bank account.
PS Don't tell the bones.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (---.ligo-la.caltech.edu)
Date: March 21, 2005 07:04PM
[Q]Scersk '97 Wrote:
Ahhahaha, but it doesn't matter! If both teams have their KASA "adjusted" towards an "away" match but are meeting at a neutral site, then it's the same as comparing their unadjusted KASA's.[/q]
Yes, but you should not give BC, Michigan, BU or UNH home advantages in their regionals, only Minnesota.
Ahhahaha, but it doesn't matter! If both teams have their KASA "adjusted" towards an "away" match but are meeting at a neutral site, then it's the same as comparing their unadjusted KASA's.[/q]
Yes, but you should not give BC, Michigan, BU or UNH home advantages in their regionals, only Minnesota.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Scersk '97 (---.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net)
Date: March 21, 2005 09:10PM
True, I could repost without those, like, say:
The differences are obvious.
[Q]CrazyLarry Wrote:
You could argue crowds for BC, BU and Michigan, but I would think UHN will also get plenty of crowd support at Amherst. But crowd support and actual home rink are two different things.[/q]
When you compare Michigan's travel distance with CC's and Colgate's--even Wisco's--GR starts looking like a home regional for Michigan. Same argument for BU and BC. Of course, one could also make the same argument for UHN and Harvard, I just chose not to. There's really no question that the latter chart is less arbitrary.
Regional Team KRACH KASA Adjusted 1st Game CBS 1st KASA CBS KASA
West
4 Minnesota 620.4 589.9 663.81447 0.672010399 0.375878081 0.722725857 0.437741494
5 Cornell 592.6 590.7 524.89602 0.630358473 0.343782959 0.635639729 0.321522712
10 Ohio State 347.5 338.6 300.87996 0.369641527 0.1539689 0.364360271 0.136846435
13 Maine 302.8 286.6 254.67276 0.327989601 0.12637006 0.277274143 0.103889358
Midwest
3 CC 1031 990.1 879.80286 0.822497008 0.533493632 0.820366228 0.531886572
6 Michigan 619.7 605 537.603 0.560003615 0.246058638 0.570700877 0.253047781
11 Wisconsin 486.9 455.1 404.40186 0.439996385 0.169690817 0.429299123 0.163137486
14 Colgate 222.5 216.8 192.64848 0.177502992 0.050756914 0.179633772 0.051928161
East
1 BC 642.5 611.7 543.55662 0.974562774 0.584218271 0.969428993 0.580936577
7 N Dakota 469.1 451.7 401.38062 0.549619215 0.239539965 0.556349304 0.245407294
12 BU 384.4 360.2 320.07372 0.450380785 0.175280302 0.443650696 0.17227012
16 Mercyhurst 16.77 19.29 17.141094 0.025437226 0.000961463 0.030571007 0.001386009
Northeast
2 Denver 975.8 940.4 835.63944 0.901681759 0.649827644 0.892220114 0.643235671
8 UHN 428.9 413.5 367.4361 0.576788596 0.204234035 0.578079128 0.206401875
9 Harvard 314.7 301.8 268.17948 0.423211404 0.124152959 0.421920872 0.124498489
15 Bemidji 106.4 113.6 100.94496 0.098318241 0.021785361 0.107779886 0.025863965
The differences are obvious.
[Q]CrazyLarry Wrote:
You could argue crowds for BC, BU and Michigan, but I would think UHN will also get plenty of crowd support at Amherst. But crowd support and actual home rink are two different things.[/q]
When you compare Michigan's travel distance with CC's and Colgate's--even Wisco's--GR starts looking like a home regional for Michigan. Same argument for BU and BC. Of course, one could also make the same argument for UHN and Harvard, I just chose not to. There's really no question that the latter chart is less arbitrary.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2005 09:18PM by Scersk '97.
Re: Quit BITCHING about seeding
Posted by: Chief AA Bear (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: March 21, 2005 11:38PM
Nice job with the calcs, but notwithstanding the numbers, and from actual attendance "observation' a couple seasons ago, with most of the State of New Hampshire showing up in Amhearts (like they did at the Worcester Centrum), and the poor crowd support for Harvard, I can confidently state that Amhearst WILL be like home ice for UNH.
-- dahh bear
-- dahh bear
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