SUCKS or Toothpaste

Just wondering which team you guys will be voting for?

Harvard vs. Colgate?

I will find it hard to root for either of those teams. I won't find it hard to root for them to beat the crap out of each other...fight...get some game disqualifications, etc. But to actually root for one of them to win? I'm not sure I can do it.
Andy W.

Harvard. I want to see a Cornell-Harvard Final because I think they're the two best teams and obviously huge rivals. Additionally, I think Colgate is more dangerous than Harvard with nine seniors and more offensive punch. Harvard is very similar to Cornell but with less offense and not as potent on special teams. I really like that matchup for Cornell more than Colgate. Even though Cornell had a better record against Colgate, I thought the two teams were very even and that either one of the games could have gone either way. In both games against Harvard, I thought Cornell was clearly the superior team. The second time they played, Cornell learned a ton about themselves and I like to think of that game and the next game at Union as the general turning point in the season.

Deep down I want Harvard to do whatever Cornell does in the semi's so we get to play them.

Realistically, I'll probably be rooting for Colgate since I find it nearly impossible to root for Harvard within the ECAC and I wouldn't mind seeing another ECAC team in the NCAA's.

the teams both have postseason aspirations, so look for no game dq's or anything. i expect the consolation game, whomever it entails, to play just as a championship game would too.

colgate won both off harvard this year, but harvard is clicking as the better team. conventional wisdom seems to have harvard-cornell in the champs too. all rivalries aside, i would rather see us play a team that is easier to beat. i agree with ari that we are better off against harvard due to the special teams battle. i see that game going down as 1-0 or something. in the harvard loss, our defense was amazing, our offense just didn't show up to play. i think our offense has only gotten better since then, and the d is still the same great squad. hyphen may be "playoff tested" but he must get shivers every time he sees us step on the ice. the trauma of playing cornell in the finals in albany after paolini's goal may keep him a bit off his game.

it reminds me of the faithful watching the dartmouth-harvard game after we beat brown in '03. harvard was ahead so cornell fans started cheering with the dartmouth fanbase (including the crazy penalty shot goal by dc), but when harvard finally put it away, the cornell fans immediately reminded everyone "harvard sucks, harvard sucks."

The best moments of cheering for dartmouth came when harvard fans were questioning our cheering for darthmouth: "your team isnt even playing right now!"

They were really ignorant enough to forget that we don't like harvard.

[Q]Ben Rocky 04 Wrote:

The best moments of cheering for dartmouth came when harvard fans were questioning our cheering for darthmouth: "your team isnt even playing right now!"

They were really ignorant enough to forget that we don't like harvard.[/q]

harvard fans?

The pathetic few.

Most everyone wants to play - and beat - Harvard because Harvard is Harvard. Harvard is the pretty girl who wouldn't date you, the boy two blocks away with family money who never had to rake leaves or babysit to pay for his Boxster in high school, the school that wouldn't let you in. (This apparently is how some Clarkson fans see us.) Plus it's a pretty good hockey school.

Colgate is our upstate New York State neighbor and you want people around you to do well, just as you'd root for Syracuse in basketball because they're local, if it came down to Syracuse vs. say Georgia. (It would have been nice if Cornell had held up its end of the winter 2003 NCAA chamspionships.)

Colgate or Harvard? This is like in lacrosse, do you root for the Orange or for Princeton: One carries the glory of upstate New York, the other is part of our league. You just don't wish Princeton too much luck because they're recruiting more the same player vs. us than Syracuse vs. us.

If Harvard goes places in the NCAA hockey, then it's good for all of college hockey because a bunch of small papers sit up, take notice, and run those "They really are *student*-athletes" stories.

For hockey, I think the order of Cornell fan rooting / playing-against / wishing sucess-but-not-at-our-expenses should be

1. Cornell
2. Ivy League
3. New York State (starting with upstate (in case say Fordham goes D1)
4. ECACHL
5. Eastern hockey
6. Academically good schools
7. Small schools that are a combination of the above

You should also have a soft spot for small schools that excel in a sport, such as Hopkins in lacrosse or Colorado College in hockey (or Union). It's not writ in stone that you have to have 10,000 students to be great in one sport. Plus, if the NCAA doesn't like the idea, that's reason enough to like the idea.

Harvard is the evil empire who denied your favorite (female) cousin tenure in the business school while promoting several less qualified males and then had a convenient fire in the records department just before the suit was due to come to trial.

No doubt in my mind. Go 'Gate!

Oh, and by the way...Hahvahd Sucks!

[Q]billhoward Wrote:


Colgate or Harvard? This is like in lacrosse, do you root for the Orange or for Princeton: One carries the glory of upstate New York, the other is part of our league. You just don't wish Princeton too much luck because they're recruiting more the same player vs. us than Syracuse vs. us.. [/q]

Princeton, but only barely. Syracuse lacrosse (and more specifically their fans) defines hubris. I grew up watching great SU players like Zulberti, the Gaits, Marachek, and Lockwood, but SU fans are just so irritatingly smug. Plus, they lack any sense of history - they're too quick to forget that CNY was a great recruiting ground in the 80s due to Cornell's success in the 70s. It'll be interesting to see how they react this season.

Conversely, Tierney is the Mike Schafer of lacrosse, only better: a brillant system with flawless execution. He may not be able to fill his entire roster with bluechips, to use the hockey term, but Princeton certainly has had plenty of success with good players and great coaching. Still, SU run n' gun is a lot easier for the average fan to enjoy. Plus, you gotta like the Ivy boys puttin' a whuppin' on the scholarship meat.

That all having been said, you can't root for Princeton too hard, if only because you'd like to see Cornell retake the lead in number of National Titles someday. In fact, Cornell has the 4th highest NCAA tourney win percentage (.606) behind Princeton (.765), Syracuse (.733) and Hopkins (.667). I suspect that Princeton win-pct has got to be close to an NCAA record across all DI sports.

Of course, making up the 3 title deficit looked much more promising before Dave Pietramala left for the head job at his alma mater. (For people that don't know lacrosse, Pietramala is considered the best defenseman in the history of the game.)

Given all that, it was really easy to root for Navy last year...

Like Harvard is the only college or university with bizarre hiring and promotions practices. It should get better in Cambridge: Despite sticking his foot in his mouth, Lawrence Summers seems to be a breath of fresh air for Harvard. And if he's not, by virtue of having gotten embroiled in the controversy (the rest of his remarks seemed reasonable if not his remarks in their entirety), he now has to be really vigilant to make sure the Summers era is truly open to women. That one faux pas may pay immense dividends.

But a fire? That's creative. You'd think being on the banks of the Charles, it would have been a flood.

For those who saw or at least recall Cornell lacrosse going back to the Harkness years and getting screwed on national championships because it was a poll favoring schools in Baltimore and points south until the first (1971) NCAA playoff, a) Bill Tierney at Princeton deserves incredible amounts of credit and b) it's galling to read about the history of Ivy lacrosse being Princetong greatness since 1990 and years of darkness before that. Cornell won three of the first eight NCAA titles, came close twice in the 1980s, and had the playoffs started when Ned was coaching in the late 1960s, maybe there would have been at least one more. Ned and Richie Moran started the Ivy League legacy, not Bill Tierney.

Harvard...9-8...in 5th OT

My general rule is root for Harvard in non-conference games out of conference loyalty, but root against them when it's in the family, so to speak. The ECAC tournament isn't non-conference for these purposes, so go (Red) Raiders!

The only reason I would root for Harvard in their semi would be if they needed to win that game to get an at large bid. Then conference loyalty might win out. But since Harvard is likely in regardless (USCHO contest notwithstanding) this isn't an issue.

[Q]Killer Wrote:

Harvard...9-8...in 5th OT[/q]

"In a game for the ages, Colgate and Harvard score 16 goals between them in 60 minutes of regulation hockey. After that, the scoring runs dry, with the Crimson finally notching the 17th goal of the evening after nearly 100 minutes of scoreless overtime."

No way.

I don't want either of them thinking they can score, and I don't want anybody from either team, especially Sucks, going into any kind of statistical record books.

4-3 in double OT. The GAA is high enough to hurt both goalies' GAAs, but no teams go in the record books except possibly for futility.

[Q]Jeff Hopkins '82 Wrote:

No way.

I don't want either of them thinking they can score, and I don't want anybody from either team, especially Sucks, going into any kind of statistical record books.

4-3 in double OT. The GAA is high enough to hurt both goalies' GAAs, but no teams go in the record books except possibly for futility.[/q]

By the time it got to 5-5 both sieves would've been pulled.

Good point.

OK, 9-8 double OT works for me.

[Q]KeithK Wrote:

My general rule is root for Harvard in non-conference games out of conference loyalty, but root against them when it's in the family, so to speak. The ECAC tournament isn't non-conference for these purposes, so go (Red) Raiders!
[/q]
I'm with Keith. Harvard is creeping up on us in terms of ECAC championships, and I'd like to see the gap not close any further.

I found rationalizing my rooting interests prior to the games rarely has had any effect on my emotional response. Once you're in the building and the blood gets pumping, I can't control who I'm pulling for. It just happens. I remember going into the 2002 regionals flaunting the usual "Go ECAC" facade, but once the puck was dropped, I found myself hoping for Cantab humiliation.

Out-of-town games that I'm not watching are a different beast, especially knowing the numbers that would help my team. I'm a big Maine fan this week!

Let's see Harvard-Colgate both score and give up a lot of goals. If the hyphen gives up eight goals this weekend (two game total) while maintaining his average of about 29-30 saves a game, that would drop him out of the lead in save percentage should those just behind him maintain their current ratios.

[Q]RichH Wrote:

I found rationalizing my rooting interests prior to the games rarely has had any effect on my emotional response. Once you're in the building and the blood gets pumping, I can't control who I'm pulling for. It just happens. I remember going into the 2002 regionals flaunting the usual "Go ECAC" facade, but once the puck was dropped, I found myself hoping for Cantab humiliation.

Out-of-town games that I'm not watching are a different beast, especially knowing the numbers that would help my team. I'm a big Maine fan this week![/q]
Actually, BU or UNH winning the title would help us more, although yes, definitely Maine over BC on Friday.

[Q]RichH Wrote:

I found rationalizing my rooting interests prior to the games rarely has had any effect on my emotional response. Once you're in the building and the blood gets pumping, I can't control who I'm pulling for. It just happens.[/q]

You mean like going to the Minnesota-BU series and discovering I was rooting for BU?

Playing Colgate in the final presents more options for eastern ice in the NCAAs than Harvard. There are several scenarios where we lose to Colgate in Final but still get #1 seed. Fewer if we lose to Harvard.

I'm a big Colgate fan on Friday.

Is that because Colgate winning keeps Brown a TUC and we get two more TUC wins?

[Q]Jeff Hopkins '82 Wrote:

Is that because Colgate winning keeps Brown a TUC and we get two more TUC wins?[/q]
No, Colgate would have to win twice to keep Brown a TUC. Which is while I'll root for Colgate on Friday. Having them in the final (hopefully against us) would mean that even if we were to lose to them in the final, there's the 'upside' of it keeping Brown a TUC.

Losing to Harvard would likely hurt more because there's a greater chance it could flip the comparison between us & Harvard, as it would give them an additional H2H win. That, plus flipping RPI, would give Harvard the comparison. Its just a guess, but it makes the most sense to me.

[Q]DeltaOne81 Wrote:

Jeff Hopkins '82 Wrote:

Is that because Colgate winning keeps Brown a TUC and we get two more TUC wins?[/Q]
No, Colgate would have to win twice to keep Brown a TUC. Which is while I'll root for Colgate on Friday. Having them in the final (hopefully against us) would mean that even if we were to lose to them in the final, there's the 'upside' of it keeping Brown a TUC.

Losing to Harvard would likely hurt more because there's a greater chance it could flip the comparison between us & Harvard, as it would give them an additional H2H win. That, plus flipping RPI, would give Harvard the comparison. Its just a guess, but it makes the most sense to me.[/q]

Okay, but on the positive side, does Cornell benefit more from winning the tournament against Harvard or Colgate in the final game?

 

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