Would a Number 1 in polls really have no impact on selection committee

I have read enough here to know that in theory the NCAA tournament bracket, set by the NCAA selection committee is not based on the polls, but rather on the PairWise Rankings (PWR.) I also understand that beyond some specifics about where the four number 1 seeds get to play the committee can exercise some discretion. (For example, the true number 1 does not have to play the true number 16 in the first round, etc.) But what I'd like to know is do they have enough discretion to possibly make Cornell a number one seed if we are a unanimous number one in the polls?

While I think the answer is probably "no", I wonder about this. I would venture a guess and say that the national polls are understood by far more average college hockey fans than PWR and RPI. How does the selection committe explain to those people why the "best" team in the country isn't even being considered to be in the top four by the selection committee?

For argument's sake, let's say that Cornell finishes 5 in the PWR, and is, in fact, ranked No. 1 in the country in both polls. (I don't understand the intricacies of PWR and RPI that well, but I do understand the trends in the polls, and should we win out, and should the other top teams stumble at all, I think it is safe to say that we will be No. 1 in both polls. I know those are big ifs, but this is a hypothetical discussion.) So...we're number 5 in PWR and No. 1 in the polls. Is there any way that under these circumstances we get a 1 seed? It seems to me that at least in some ways this would be the safe thing for the committee to do.

Definitive answers? Comments?

Thanks.
Andy W.

it means nothing who is where in the polls. all they have to do is explain the pwr during the selection show -> all is explained . #1 in the polls yet #5 seed we will be a #2 seed plain and simple

just something of note, if cornell were to win out I would be surprised if they were not a #1 seed. but we shall see.

all you have to do is explain a contradiction -> no more problem

Polls mean absolutely nothing. Polls are just for fun. Polls play into the rankings in absolutely no way.

Where we are in the numbers - aka: PWR - is all that matters for the rankings. The opinions of the 40 coaches or press members means nothing more than the opinions of any 40 of us.

Really Jy3? I can't see us climbing above 5th in PWR. Michigan is going to do well in the EZHA tourney, and Minnesota looks like they're getting back on track. I know there are many TUC/non-TUC issues to be decided in the next two weeks, but enough to get us to #4? I'm skeptical - but I don't spend nearly as much time playing with this stuff as other people.

#4 is a bit of a stretch - and I don't care if we're a #2 especially if we're more likely to be east. However, Minn being 'back on track' is a little bit of a stretch. They could be, but they beat the two bottom feeders in the WCHA - SCSU and Mich Tech - and barely over SCSU. We'll see next week and the week after, but its a bit early to say that at this point.

Making Cornell a #1 seed in a regional when the PWR dictates they be a #2 or #3 seed would be about the least safe thing for the committee to do, if they want to retain any respectability whatsoever as a tournament governing body. If you could use the polls as a factor, why bother with the math at all? Just go back to the days of the smoke-filled room, pick the sixteen teams you think people are most likely to want to see, and stop pretending there's a formula at all.

Beeeej

Actually I could really see us moving up in the PWR, since I believe the ECAC and CCHA has a lot bigger impact, because of the fewer games vs. TUC we play. If we win out we will add another 2 wins in the TUC department, which makes a big difference, from 0.6563 to 0.6944 which is a lot more important to our comparisons to WCHA teams. Also there is still the possibility of Miami, UNO, and Bowling Green falling out of TUC status, which will flip our comparison with Michigan. I would guess one out of the three will drop from TUC and Michigan is 2-0 vs Miami and UNO, and 4- 0 vs. Bowling Green. Michigan TUC comparison is vary volatile to how well these teams do in the playoffs. So with the playoffs left, I still believe that we can be anywhere from 4 to 8 in the polls relastically. If Clarkson was a TUC, I would say we would have a really good chance of getting a number 1 seed. The PWR rankings is not the greatest system in the world, and we just have to hope Brown stays a TUC, I think SLU is fairly safe now as staying a TUC, and St. Cloud, Bowling Green, Miami and UNO fall out. But the most important thing right now for our team is win the games at hand, that means beating Clarkson this weekend, else none of the other stuff matters

Minnesota is the most overrated team in the nation. They suck ass (pardon the language), they really do.

[Q]Oat Wrote:

Minnesota is the most overrated team in the nation. They suck ass (pardon the language), they really do.[/q]

Thanks for that. Why don't you go here and announce your findings?

[q]I would venture a guess and say that the national polls are understood by far more average college hockey fans than PWR and RPI.[/q]You are probably correct, but don't underestimate the knowledge of college hockey fans. I would bet that the average hockey fan knows much more about the details than the average college squeakball fan. It takes more effort to follow hockey than basketball so a fan who does has likely put more effort into it and is therefore more likely to be informed.

I don't know about Minnesota sucking that much...I watched them play Michigan Tech this weekend on FSN, and they were dominant. Normally I would not think twice about Michigan Tech against Minny, but I guess they beat either Denver or CC already this year, which makes two blowouts by Minnesota look a little more impressive. Unless they are similar to a Yale, who tied Wisconsin and then lost to Clarkson (sucks) the following night, 8-1. One magical game and then nothing the rest of the season. But we can usually expect a good team coming out of Minnesota, so I wouldn't write them off quite yet.

[Q]KeithK Wrote:

I would venture a guess and say that the national polls are understood by far more average college hockey fans than PWR and RPI.[/Q]
You are probably correct, but don't underestimate the knowledge of college hockey fans. I would bet that the average hockey fan knows much more about the details than the average college squeakball fan. It takes more effort to follow hockey than basketball so a fan who does has likely put more effort into it and is therefore more likely to be informed.[/q]
Don't overestimate the complexity of PWR and RPI either. They're not that bad. There's nothing more complicated than arithmetic for the math, and heck, only addition, multiplication, and division at that.

If you were to try to make an overall ranking system, it'd probably be something close to what you'd come up with after a few passes.

We're not talking a recursive algorithm, like KRACH, we're talking math that even a WCHA fan could do . And while KRACH is complex mathematically, the concept isn't even that bad either.