NHL + PA Still Talking

mjh89 Wrote:
it decreases cheap shots because it there's accountability for what you do on the ice.[/Q]
The biggest myth in the history of sports.

Another plus is that, as sad as you may see it, fighting is exciting.[/Q]
So is naked women streaking across the ice with their hair on fire, but we're not promoting that at hockey games (though maybe we should).

Hockey, and the NHL in particular, needs all the fans it can get.[/Q]
Maybe they are losing more by the reputation as a gong show.[/q]

Well that "myth" is believed by many NHLers and they have commented on it. Read an artcicle from THN a few weeks ago called "The Unwritten Code." The general thoughts are that the "pest" such as the Mike Danton's, Tyson Nash's, Ville Nieminen's along with the dumbest rule in professional sports, the instigator, are what has killed that code. Fighting has decreased a lot because the instigator yet cheap shots have increased. These pests get away with these types of things yet cannot be punished properly by the team's enforcer fighting him because the instigator. The McSorely incident and Bertuzzi incident occured because they could not initiate fights. In no way am I condoning their actions in those two incidents or other actions of stupidity, but the instigator rule and the resulting descrease in fighting has a major role.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2005 04:55PM by calgARI '07.

 

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Re: NHL + PA Still Talking

Posted by: KeithK (---.external.lmco.com)

Date: February 18, 2005 04:54PM

It's possible that the number of paying customers would decrease if there were a severe crackdown on fighting. Probable maybe. But then ESPN might be forced to show actual clips of hockey, instead of boxing on ice and over the long haul you might end up with more fans. I certainly appreciate the fact the there isn't (much) fighting in college and think that the pro game would benefit in the long run from the low-tolerance for fighting approach.

 

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Re: NHL + PA Still Talking

Posted by: calgARI '07 (205.232.74.---)

Date: February 18, 2005 04:56PM

[Q]Pete Godenschwager Wrote:

and it decreases cheap shots because it there's accountability for what you do on the ice.[/Q]
Is there no accountability in the playoffs then? Players rarely fight in the playoffs, yet somehow the game manages to go on. [/q]

The stakes are too high in the playoffs. Far less cheap shots and far less fighting. There stems almost directly from the fact that most of hte pests and enforcers don't dress at all come playoff time. It's a different game.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2005 04:57PM by calgARI '07.

 

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Re: NHL + PA Still Talking

Posted by: calgARI '07 (205.232.74.---)

Date: February 18, 2005 04:58PM

Speculation continues that the two sides are still deep into talks.

[www.tsn.ca]

 

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Re: NHL + PA Still Talking

Posted by: DeltaOne81 (---.bos.east.verizon.net)

Date: February 18, 2005 07:29PM

Reports: NHL, Union to Meet Saturday in NYC

[sports.espn.go.com]

 

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Re: NHL + PA Still Talking

Posted by: adamw (---.ip.e-nt.net)

Date: February 18, 2005 07:56PM

[Q]calgARI '07 Wrote:
Well that "myth" is believed by many NHLers and they have commented on it. Read an artcicle from THN a few weeks ago called "The Unwritten Code." The general thoughts are that the "pest" such as the Mike Danton's, Tyson Nash's, Ville Nieminen's along with the dumbest rule in professional sports, the instigator, are what has killed that code. Fighting has decreased a lot because the instigator yet cheap shots have increased. These pests get away with these types of things yet cannot be punished properly by the team's enforcer fighting him because the instigator. The McSorely incident and Bertuzzi incident occured because they could not initiate fights. In no way am I condoning their actions in those two incidents or other actions of stupidity, but the instigator rule and the resulting descrease in fighting has a major role.[/q]

Believe me, I know that it's believed by many. I think it's a 100% myth that has never been supported by any evidence. It's all anecdotal, by people who want to believe it's true - and many who probably do think it's true. But it's just an excuse to keep fighting in.

There is more fighting in the minor leagues than anywhere, and there's also more cheap shotting than anyone. There's little fighting in college, and there are no more "cheap shots" there than anywhere else.

Further point: When is the last time you saw one of these "enforcers" actually fight the guy who did the cheap shot? Did you ever see Bob Probert fight Tomas Sandstrom? Of course not. Sandstrom takes a cheap shot with a stick - someone runs him - then Probert fights with the other goon. And it certainly didn't stop Sandstrom from doing it again.

 

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Re: NHL + PA Still Talking

Posted by: TShen (---.va.client2.attbi.com)

Date: February 19, 2005 12:01AM

[Q]mjh89 Wrote:

Why is it unfortunate that fighting in hockey won't be stopped? It's in the game's history, and it decreases cheap shots because it there's accountability for what you do on the ice. Please don't bring up Bertuzzi. Another plus is that, as sad as you may see it, fighting is exciting. "Nobody gets up to to go thhe bathroom during a fight." Hockey, and the NHL in particular, needs all the fans it can get.[/q]

Agreed on the fightings. It was certainly very true at a hand full of minor league games that I attended. All spectators were on their feet. The cheers were possibly louder than a goal.

 

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Re: NHL + PA Still Talking

Posted by: David Harding (---.client.comcast.net)

Date: February 19, 2005 12:07AM

Here's a relevant story about one of Bâby's current teammates:

'I just want to fight more'
By Mike Spellman Daily Herald Sports Writer
2/11/2005

A few weeks ago, Kip Brennan requested a meeting with Chicago Wolves coach John Anderson.

Keep in mind that Brennan stands 6-feet-4, 240 pounds, and among the duties listed on his job description is beating the snot out of people.

When the meeting took place, the topic of discussion was surprising.

"Sometimes guys ask for meetings and usually it's to complain about ice time and things like that," Anderson said. "Kip said, 'No, I'm happy about my ice time, I just want to fight more,' so I go, 'Have at it.' "

That's just what Brennan has done, going at it hard and often - he leads the team with 195 penalty minutes despite missing a quarter of the season to injuries - and giving the Wolves a dynamic they sorely lacked last season: toughness.

"I was getting a little bit away from my game and focusing too much on the scoring and the offensive part," Brennan said. "I still want to improve at that, but that's not the big part of my game; that's not what got me here."

What got him to the cusp of a career in the NHL is his ability to scrap with the biggest and baddest. Even when he's not fighting, his presence in a Wolves sweater provides clearance on the ice for his teammates.

"He makes everyone taller out there," Anderson said.

"From what I gather, they were lacking a little toughness last year," said Brennan, who was traded to the Atlanta Thrashers by Los Angeles in March 2004. "What I bring to the team is trying to give the other guys like Steve Maltais, Cory Larose, Lonny Bohonos, Brad Larsen and all those guys a little more room out on the ice. The other team will have to think twice if they're going to try to take advantage of a situation."

It's up to Brennan to respond when that line is crossed.

"I told him I'm not one of those coaches that will tap you on the shoulder and tell you to go fight somebody," Anderson said. "You have to decide when and if. And if you go, make sure you don't go by yourself."

Brennan is accustomed to that role. He has been doing it successfully for quite a while now, begging the question:

Is fighting just part of the job or something you really enjoy?

"It's both," he said. "I've learned to like it. If you don't like what you're doing, you're not going to be successful at it.

"It always came naturally to me. Ever since I was younger, I was always playing with older guys. I was 13 playing Junior C against 21-year-olds. There was fighting in those leagues, and I was actually the tough guy on our team."

Maybe that experience helped develop the leadership skills Brennan has brought with him to the Wolves. After every period, he positions himself at the gate and encourages his teammates as they head to the locker room - not an unusual sight, but unusual for a player in his first year with a team.

"That's something I've always done," he said. "I look at myself as sort of a guardian angel. I go out there and protect those guys, and I'm always the first one to give everybody a tap on the back and I'm always the last one off the ice.

"I'd go to battle every day for these guys."

So far he has gone to battle quite a bit, participating in more than a dozen fights and ending up with an outrageously high win percentage.

"If you lose more than you win, then you better start thinking about doing another job," Brennan said. "As long as I win more than I lose, then I'm in a good spot."

Though he has already proved his mettle as a pugilist, Brennan and Anderson realize more will be required at the next level. With that in mind, the Wolves' coach has given the 24-year-old left wing plenty of chances to hone his game.

"John's given me a big opportunity - playing on the power play and giving me a regular shift," Brennan said.

The native of Kingston, Ontario, has responded. He matched a pro career high when he scored his fourth goal this season in late October. He now has 6 goals and 5 assists.

"That's what we need from him; we even expect more," Anderson said. "There are a lot of things he needs to get better at to play a regular shift (in the NHL). The more you play, the more money you make.

"If they were going, he'd probably be in the NHL right now. But you just can't just be a fighter in the National Hockey League; you have to bring something to the table. We put him on the power play and other things, and he's doing a good job. He brings more to the table than just fighting."

Brennan understands, but that doesn't mean he won't be savoring the moment the next time he drops the gloves and takes care of business.

"It's like scoring a goal," he said. "It gets the fans into, gets your team into it."

 

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