Michigan State games help or hurt Cornell?

So Cornell is going west to play a storied CCHA team but one that is ranked below Cornell in the polls - midway down in the also receving votes (6) section, same as RPI. So is this series a good or bad thing for Cornell?

Good - need to play powerful teams outside the ECACHL

Not good - MSU isn't that good this year (4-4 to date). If Cornell wins, it follows form (higher ranked beats lower ranked). If Cornell loses, it pushes Cornell down and other than the Everblades (against tougher teams), there isn't much chance to show off.

Good - Cornell needs to play well on the road and not just bus-trip-on-the-road games, so this is practice for the NCAAs on the chance we're seeded outside the East/Niortheast (assuming the NCAAs are in Cornell's future)

Not good - it's a road trip and that's worth what, a goal a game to the home team?

One hopes Cornell goes in on fire with plans to win both games -- try to win both games big? -- rather than thinking, "It's a road trip, we'd like to win two, but we win one of two, it's okay."

While they're not the best team out there this year, there still a big-name team and alot of people will be following the game. I agree, a win doesnt help as much as a loss hurts, but they cant let that affect them. As you said, this is our only big-name OOC opponent (i.e. not AH) other than Everblades, so if we want to say we deserve a good ranking it's the type of games we need to win comvincingly. I'm guessing when they were scheduled they probly thought MSU would be a little better (though they havent really been too great since Ryan Miller left).

Another thing, if our guys are anything like last year, which hopefully they arent if these first 4 games tell us anything, they'll have trouble with the western tempo like they were against WMU/BG/OSU last year.

Not to oversimplify, but... we win, they help. We lose, they hurt.

[Q]jmh30 Wrote:

Not to oversimplify, but... we win, they help. We lose, they hurt.[/q]

Run that by me again?

* MSU has the ability to beat good teams. Wins against MSU willwork well in the "Common Opponents" PWR comparisons.
* MSU will likely keep their RPI over .500, which will make them a TUC for PWR comparisons.
* The NC$$ selection committee looks at "quality wins" and awards more points for away wins. Even 1 win (let alone 2) could give our selection-criteria RPI a nice little boost.
* MSU was ranked much higher earlier. If they find form the earlier statements will be even more true.

But the modified PWR only counts wins against the top 15 in RPI as quality wins. MSU looks a little iffy for that (keeping in mind that it's the first week in November!). The CCHA conference RPI will not be that great, so they're going to have to have a whale of a run in conference to stay in the top 15. Considering that they've already split with UNO at home and were swept @NMU, I wouldn't count on it.

Out of conference, they're 1-1 right now, with a seemingly convincing 5-1 win over UNH (that now looks a little more like an opening-weekend aberration) and an opening-day loss to SLU. If we beat them twice (hypothetically, not woofing!), they're OOC drops to 1-3, with a maximum of 4 OOC games left (they play Michigan or MTU in the GLI). Their three certain non-conference games are UNH in the GLI, and then @Minnesota and @Wisconsin. I don't see them picking up more than a win and a tie in those 3 games, so I wouldn't count on picking up any quality-win points at MSU.

However, they certainly can help in the straight PWR. If we beat them twice, that gives us a big leg up on common opponents with the rest of the CCHA (assuming MSU takes some points from them).

In any case, going into these games 4-0 makes them huge regardless of rankings! If we can sweep a squad who's been to the NCAAs 19 out of the last 22 years(!) on it's own ice when they've played 8 games and we've only played 4, that says a lot about who this team is and what direction they[/] think they're headed.

Man, I'm so glad I foresaw this and bought tickets!!!! See y'all in Michigan - I'll be the one wearing the brand-new Cornell jersey with no name or number. Just didn't get around to it in time. Grrr. OTOH - make me an offer, put your name on my jersey...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2004 10:44AM by Robb.

These will be important and difficult games. Michigan St. had an excellent team last year, didn't lose much by graduation and had an excellent freshmen class. This year's freshmen are supposed to be excellent too. While off to a disappointing start by their standards, they're likely to come on strong. They've also been playing and practicing longer than we have, so we certainly shouldn't underestimate them. These will be "Common Opponent" games in any comparison with CCHA teams, so they will have a big impact on our PWR. As said above, good if we win, bad if we lose - but it's always good experience to play a tough team on the road. The reason we talk about PWR is because success in the NCAA tournament is our goal, and playing these kind of games helps get you prepared.

How does the ice sheet at MSU compare to Lynah, I know more of the western teams have olympic size ice, and that could present a challenge/adjustment for our defensive system?

[Q]Cornell95 Wrote:

How does the ice sheet at MSU compare to Lynah?[/q]
Munn Ice Arena is 200x85--like Lynah.

Only Northern Michigan and Alaska-Fairbanks have Olympic-size ice in the CCHA ... everyone else is 200x85
[www.uscho.com]

You're probably thinking of the WCHA, where 6 of 10 teams have Olympic (or comparable - Wisconsin's surface is 200x97) ice.

Its a little early to look at it, since it basically means less than squat, but a sweep helps us big time in the current PWR's (the NCAA doesnt have it yet but various people from other schools have worked it out. Since we have no common opponents with most teams, that a tie, and our lack of games vs TUCs usually makes us lose there, so the only comparisons we win is where the RPI breaks the tie. Since Michigan St. is a TUC that would put us 2-0 there if we swept and would boost our RPI, assuming MSU would stay a TUC (and again, assuming we do win both). Of course given all the games left this ranking means nothing and posting this is pointless, but hey.

Mich. State has beaten New Hampshire and will play Minnesota and Wisconsin. A win and tie, or better, will help Cornell with the COP comparison outside the CCHA.

It's a big series.

Agree that it's a big series. The COP comparison within the CCHA will be even bigger than outside. My guess is that the CCHA will have a few teams on the bubble for the NCAA tourney, so how we do this weekend could easily make or break whether we make the NCAAs. Of course if we win the ECAC tourney, or have such a great regular season that we're not on the bubble for the NCAAs, then the Everblades games against BC and another team will be more important than this series.

It's a pretty big series, if any November series can be considered big, for psychological reasons. If Cornell rolls through the ECAC but loses its few non-conference games against decent opponents, some lack of confidence is inevitable if they get back to the dance. OTOH, winning on the road against a storied program reinforces Mike's "if we just play our game the rest will take care of itself" message.

French,

The NCAA never publishes PWR. It's an USCHO creation. Well, its representation is an USCHO re-creation of the committee process. When you say this weekend means squat, but means a lot in *current* PWR - that's not really accurate. The only PWR that matters is how it looks at the end of the season. Anyone doing PWR now is just using it as a guide - and it's mostly useless to look at until January. And even then it's just a guide.

PWR is not a cumulative thing. It's meant to be a representation of a season's worth of events. For that reason and more, this weekend's series is huge. The result will be a huge factor at the end of the road.

A split also benefits Cornell more than Michigan State - assuming MSU finishes in the top 15 of RPI - because of the Bonus Points criteria.