contacting athletics

Hello,
Does anyone know how to contact athletics or to whom I would send information regarding illegally scalping Cornell hockey tickets. The seats are known -> person can be found.
Thank you for your assistance.

Gene Nighman can be reached at gmn5@cornell.edu or 607-254-2327.

Beeeej

The person's name can easily be gleened from several posts in the ticket exchange in case you want to supply that to Gene as well.

cool, but whats the illegal part? wanting more than 10% or something else..

Hey, leave the scalpers alone. I'm coming up for a couple games and need somebody outside the gate selling tickets. My finding has been that most of the "scalpers" are asking around face value and want to unload the tickets. In which case it's not scalping. OK, some kids who have comp standing room tickets sell them for $5 or $10.

It's an interesting question of whether scalping should be illegal. The reason a ticket goes for more than face value is supply and demand.

Maybe Cornell should make special tickets available for Harvard for $100 a seat and see if there are takers. Like say the ones that come back unsold from Boston.

I don't have a problem with people selling their tickets for around face value. What I do have a problem with is when people specifically use their tickets to make a huge profit. In my opinion, that's contrary to the spirit of being one of the Lynah Faithful.

There was someone trying to sell two Harvard tickets in D for $220 . Yes, you heard me right. That's the kind of thing that the poster was likely referring to/

From what people have posted, there are no tickets coming back from Harvard. They opened up sales to non-Harvard affiliates on Monday.

[Q]billhoward Wrote:
Hey, leave the scalpers alone. I'm coming up for a couple games and need somebody outside the gate selling tickets. My finding has been that most of the "scalpers" are asking around face value and want to unload the tickets. In which case it's not scalping. OK, some kids who have comp standing room tickets sell them for $5 or $10.[/q]

As you said, that's not scalping. So why leave the scalpers alone?

[q]It's an interesting question of whether scalping should be illegal. The reason a ticket goes for more than face value is supply and demand. [/q]

Obviously I'm not inside the legislators' heads, but I suspect they believe that when scalpers buy as many tickets as they possibly can because they know they'll be able to sell them for a huge profit, they're artificially deflating supply and inflating demand. That's not a shining moment for capitalism. If buying the ticket required you to attend the event, maybe it'd be reasonable to let the market dictate the price.

And as much as you may want whether scalping should be illegal to be the question, it isn't the question. Scalping is illegal.

[q]Maybe Cornell should make special tickets available for Harvard for $100 a seat and see if there are takers. Like say the ones that come back unsold from Boston. [/q]

If there were skyboxes or something, sure, charge more for the Hahvahd game. But I can't imagine how Cornell would justify charging $100 for the same seats for which other people have paid $12 or $14, other than "we can," which would lose them a lot of goodwill capital.

Beeeej

If you're willing to get there an hour before gametime even for Harvard and if you don't mind standing, I bet someone's going to have tickets for near face value. If it's $20 for a $10 ticket, okay that's a 100% markup. But if you drive in from say New York City that's $90 in car costs (wear and tear, insurance, gasoline), $100 for the hotel room, $50 for dinner, maybe you go out for beers afteward, $25 for breakfast, then it's like $305 vs. $285 for the weekend if you're a adult who doesn't crash on somebody's floor.

I'd be curious to know firsthand reports of the pricing of the tickets outside, near gametime. I alas am going to be south of the Mason-Dixon line so I won't be able to find out firsthand.

If you're a student and barely scraping by, then $200 for a Harvard ticket kind of sucks. That of course is asking price.

Yes, they did. And it appears that they sold pretty quickly once it was known.

BTW, just after I bought mine, a friend of mine cancelled, so they became extras. I agreed to sell them to someone I'm meeting just beofre the game. Our agreed upon price is $29 for the pair. That's face value plus the $3 handling fee I was charged by Harvard. Seemed fair to me.

[q]$90 in car costs
$100 for the hotel room
$50 for dinner, maybe you go out for beers afteward
$25 for breakfast,
then it's like $305 vs. $285 for the weekend if you're a adult who doesn't crash on somebody's floor.[/q]

The smell of raw fish at Lynah...

Priceless

I think I've found a much better solution... in return for my buying their tickets (which I managed to do at face value, despite all the yutzes looking for a windfall) for this weekend, Mom & Dad will drive Jess & me up there and probably buy most of our meals - plus we're staying at my brother's place. And they'll probably even insist on reimbursing me for their tickets. Score!

Of course, that plan probably wouldn't work for most of you. At least not with my Mom & Dad.

Beeeej

Last time I checked, there is no value printed on the season tickets. So how does that affect the idea of scalping. Plus, shouldn't one be compensated for the time they invested to get the tickets? That seems only fair. That's the economist in me.

[Q]Willy '06 Wrote:
Last time I checked, there is no value printed on the season tickets. So how does that affect the idea of scalping. Plus, shouldn't one be compensated for the time they invested to get the tickets? That seems only fair. That's the economist in me.[/q]
Both lovely theories, but you'd still lose in any court in the real world.

The statute allows you to include things like handling or "convenience" fees when calculating the "face value," but that's it. Even if a judge agreed with your time-value-of-money theory (which no judge would), how would you properly document the time you "invested" for which you think you deserve to get "compensated"? And shouldn't, then, the time someone spends seeking out the ticket they eventually bought from you count towards the purchase price?

And good luck finding a judge who agrees that dividing {Cost of Season Ticket} by {Number of Games} doesn't equal face value just because Cornell didn't print a dollar figure on the tickets.

Beeeej

A good classmate/friend still keeps a house up in Ithaca, his late parents' house, and maintains it as a rental property while keeping the basement for himself and friends. So I've got a free furnished basement to stay in.

I do want to recognize that when you're a student, things can be tight and it seems outrageous that tickets costing $50 or $100 seem outrageous. But in the context of a weekend trip, it's not terrible. We paid $65 for the cheapest Devils' seats last year for a couple games for me and my boys, plus $10 to park, plus all the candy, souvenir pucks, etcetera. To say nothing what it costs to be courtside at an NBA game. Jack Nicholson buys a couple more years of season tickets for Laker games, he's going to have to let the county bury him.

What's the ticket for a single Frozen Four game if you can get one - $50? If you can find a Harvard ticket for the same price, isn't that the same enertainment value?

Gad, I wish I was going to be there Friday. I already lined up a blind date from Cape Cod for the at-Yale game and we're going to be at the annual at-Princeton blowout, and we'll probably come up to Ithaca one weekend if the stars align between school holiday and no youth sports. Those of you who aren't parents, you'll find if you live in suburbia, your life belongs to the kids' sports.

Take it from me, Bill - taking a first date to the at-Yale game is not a good idea. There's precedent for this. [www.hockey.cornell.edu]

Beeeej

Bill,

This isn't about what tickets to "other similar sporting events" cost, even though from a production and demand and cost standpoint, all those you point out are pretty much no way similar to a game at Lynah or Lynah East.

What is about is scalping laws, and try arguing that "well, a Frozen Four ticket costs that much!" Besides, if a band has a $2 concert at Cornell, you can't argue that the value of the ticket is $50 because that's what their New Years Concert at MSG cost the year before.

But its about something more than that... its about not screwing over your fellow fans. You have every right to be reimbursed, but if you care a thing about the person you're selling the ticket to, you will do the right thing and sell it at a fair, face-value-related price. Keep in mind that for your personal gain, despite any other arguments that can be thrown up, you are gyping a fellow Cornell hockey fan, fellow student, fellow human being, and breaking the law in the process.

The Lynah Faithful is supposed to be about a community... its a shame that enough tickets this year are in the hands of those who only want to make a profit.

This is an older man from a respectable college who I met online. Actually, online here.

For a different blind date, I plucked her out of her Smith College dorm room and drove her to Providence for an NCAA regional involving Cornell. It made her friends jealous, although they wanted to know about the "where'd you go for dinner, did he try to take you to a motel" part, not how Cornell fared. The Big Red lost but the date part worked out okay. We're married.

I think for the at-Yale blind date this winter, if it comes off, involves our spouses, too.

OK...so what about the people selling their tickets on ebay?? Though technically they are only selling envelopes with a bonus gift. I've cut and pasted for all of you who haven't looked...this is actually kind of funny:

"You are bidding on a beautiful collectible envelope. I signed my name on it and it certainly is highly collectible. The winner of this auction will receive a CORNELL vs HARVARD HOCKEY TICKET for November 5th 2004 game at Lynah rink as a free bonus gift from me. The seat is in section B row 11 aka "THE SEAT TO DIE FOR."

Starting at $0.01----- NO RESERVE!!!!! **** Section B -- row 11

If you don't understand this auction, please feel free to ask me. Don't just sit there and wonder.

Remember, you are not bidding on the ticket. So don't complain if the auction ends higher than the face value of the ticket. The hockey ticket is just a bonus; you're not bidding on it. The envelope is the actual item being auctioned. This envelope will bring you luck. It will help you when you play poker, take a prelim, make love to your spouse/girlfriend/boyfriend or whatever else that you do. Don't waste your energy insulting this amazing envelope or criticizing this auction. Use your energy at the game cheering for the big red instead!!!

HAHVAHD SUCKS. DO NOT BID IF YOU ARE A HARVARD FAN. I WILL CANCEL YOUR BID AND WILL DEFINITELY NOT GIVE YOU ANY BONUSES.

Wait! But that's not all! IF you win the auction, I'll give you a few collectible bottle caps and a beautiful piece of plastic also! I'll even throw in a used sock for free if you want.

Let's recap on the bonuses here: few collectible bottle caps! beautiful piece of plastic! a CORNELL vs HARVARD section B row 11 HOCKEY TICKET (November 5, 2004, Lynah Rink)!!!! and last but not least, a used sock (if you request)!

So, what are you waiting for? Are you a hockey fan or what? Go ahead and bid!!!!

If you have any questions or concerns and you're not affiliated with Harvard in any way, please feel free to contact me."

And for those who missed it, this was all beat to a bloody pulp here:
[elf.elynah.com]

The most I paid for tickets from so-called scalpers was $10 or $12, which is face value or a couple dollars over. I personally wouldn't pay $50 (okay, for Harvard maybe) and certainly not $100 for scalped Cornell tickets. But my personal outrage-meter doesn't get out of whack if somebody else pays it, or sells it.

No, I don't think a Cornell band concert costing $2 should be scalped for $50 just because that's what it costs to get in to a concert at Madison Square Garden because I don't know if a Cornell band concert is worth $50. (Sorry, tuba guys.) I do think I'd get as much enjoyment, say $50 worth, seeing Cornell wallop Harvard in Lynah as I would seeing BC and Notre Dame play in the NCAAs when $50 is the face value.

Actually, there's something worse than charging more than list for tickets you want to see, and that's paying face value for a rock concert you'd like to see. In a big city it's $100? $250? $300? to see Bruce or the Stones. For me, at that price, NFW. When Bruce, who I have seen when tickets were $25 way back, dedicates a set to the out of luck steelworkers, does he also set aside a section that lets them in for ten bucks a head? I don't recall that happening.

Legal arguments aside, the economic argument only works if there were quantifiable opportunity costs, e.g., foregone earnings due to missing work. If you're using your leisure time to buy tickets, that time - strictly speaking - can't be seen as having economic value. Nice try, though.

I just don't see the need of being greedy and squeezing every nickle and dime you can out of your fellow Cornellians. I'd rather have Lynah full of screaming, enthusiastic and excited fans, than having a half full arena of quiet people who don't care about hockey, hte team or cornell, but are there just cause they have the money to spare.

I was face with this issue last year. I got 2 sets of season tickets but a friend of mine backed out after i had already bought them. So, what do i do with the extra set.
I saw the harvard game with dollar signs flashing before my eyes. Not to mention last fall people were offering 1, 2 and even 3 x's the season ticket price for an extra set (Hockey games are the "cool" thing to do these days, not that we watch the game).

I eventually decided that why should i profit? I actually ended up giving most of the tickets away, never selling them more than face value. Some of them were to people who had never gone to a gmae, but have always wanted to. Why should they go to the game, when die hard fans can't go. Well, if that was the case, i probalbly would have never gotten into hockey. A friend of mine took me. He had played hockey in high school, his dad had been a die hard Cornell fan when he was here in the 70s. I had never been to a hockey game in my life. I feel in love with the sport and have been a fan since.

The Lynah Faithful are a community. The true faithful are there for the hockey, there for thier love of Cornell. Greed degrades and pulls apart society, I'd hate to see it happen to the Faithul.

p.s. Sorry for my random rant. The whole screw people for whatever you can get out of your hockey tickets issue has bothered me since i started buying my own.

[Q]bigggreddd77 Wrote:
OK...so what about the people selling their tickets on ebay?? Though technically they are only selling envelopes with a bonus gift.[/q]
It's a vaguely clever, if unoriginal, ploy which is specifically prohibited by eBay's rules. See [pages.ebay.com] - you can't put a free gift in the title of the auction (and you can't offer a free gift unless you state the auction price at or above which the free gift is included, though that's obviously an easier hurdle to clear).

Even if it weren't prohibited, however, ask yourself this question: If I won the bidding, but I was unsatisfied with the envelope I'd purchased and returned it for a refund, would the seller refund my money? Would he let me keep the "gift" tickets?

Beeeej

My sentiments exactly. I went out in line last year, showed up 15 minutes before the line was scheduled to start, would have been line # 1200 or something. Didn't get tickets. I had only been to a few games so I wasn't too bummed out. Throughout the year, some friends who had a large block of tickets in section A kept taking me to games. They gave me most of them for free, including the Harvard ticket. I fell in love with Cornell athletics in general and hockey in particular during the season.

This fall I made sure not to make the same mistake and got a great line number. I thought, wow, I could probably sell this number for $400 without waiting in line. I could split up the tickets and sell them game by game for even more, and even get my own season ticket on someone else's number. But I decided that isn't what it's all about.

So I scrambled all over to get a ticket for this week's Harvard game. My little brother is coming up for the weekend and has never seen a hockey game, although I keep telling him how awesome they are. I emailed all over, got a lot of responses saying "no more left" and a few saying "bidding is at $90 but it's only Sunday night." I was outraged. Then I managed to get a few legitimately through the Sucks ticket office, two for $29. I traded them to a buddy who wants to sit in O with the Harvard fans (or lack thereof) in exchange for his ticket in my section. He gets to bring a friend for free who's never been to hockey, I get to bring my brother, everyone wins.

All the scalping gets to me too. Because these greedy nonfans rushed out to the line to get tickets to scalp, diehard fans didn't get line numbers. At this point, not only is going to hockey the cool thing to do, waiting in the ticket line is as well. Which isn't the point of the line

Let's Go Red

Thanks Beeeeeeeej...I think I understood that...hence the silly The actual text of the posting was pretty funny though which is why I posted it.

I was more curious if the person who started this post was referring to/had a problem with the ebay postings or if there was some other 'scalping' going on...

Aaaahhh...how I miss those irc days...

Just in case anybody was curious and not following it, those Harvard tickets on eBay are selling for about $70 a pop.

Ooh, sorry other fans.

Did you notice that several of the auctions on ebay are NOT this year's Harvard/Cornell tickets. Look at the dates closely on the tickets (for October). Not only that but compare the color of the tickets and the picture on this years tickets.

Two of the auctions ended at $212.50 for three tickets and $152.50 for two tickets. About the price you'd pay list for an upper deck seat to an NHL game. Be interested to see what resold tickets go for for every other game.