[OT] What Is the Rarest Single-Game Feat in Sports?

[Q]Tom Pasniewski 98 Wrote:
I was actually thinking of the four-homer game but wasn't quite sure if someone had hit five or not. Was kind of sure they hadn't but not absolutely sure. I thought Johnny Damon's three hits in one inning last year for the Sox was a pretty rare feat especially since they were three different hits (single, double, triple)[/q]No player has hit five homers in a game. Twice a player has hit five home runs in a double-header: Stan Musial in 1954 and Nate Colbert in 1972.

Damon's three hits in an inning tied a record, it had been done four times previously. The most recent was Gene Stephens, also a Red Sox. The three previous times were by Tom Burns, Fred Pfeffer, and Ned Williamson of the Chicago Cubs (then known as the White Stockings), who all did it in the *same* inning of a game on September 6, 1883. So yeah, I'd say that's pretty rare as well.

And because Tom's question made me curious, the record for most hits in a game is 9, by Johnny Burnett of the Cleveland Indians in an 18-inning game in 1932. The record for most hits in a 9-inning game is 7, shared by Wilbert Robinson of the 1892 Baltimore Orioles (incidentially, not the same franchise we know as the Baltimore Orioles today) and Rennie Stennett of the 1975 Pittsburgh Pirates.

Has there ever been a baseball game in which two players hit for the cycle? I'd imagine that would be pretty rare.

Cheers,
Kyle

Speaking of hitting for the cycle, there are seven ways to reach base safely that I know of - four being hitting for the cycle plus walking, being hit by a pitch and having the ball get away on a third strike. Since Int. Walks are not kept as a separate stat, I'll keep it at 7 - it's never been done and I wouldn't call the cycle plus any of those particularly amazing since the cycle is what's amazing.

I would offer, without the actual names, that playing baseball games for two different teams in the same day is rare but as that's not a single game nor much of a feat since it usually involved trades between teams involved in doubleheaders.

In golf, multiple holes in one are rare as are what I've heard called seagulls and albatrosses, though I think the latter is correct - three-under par on one hole which can only be accomplished with a 2 on a par 5.

In basketball - has anybody done the quadruple double - double-digit points, rebounds, assists AND steals?

In hockey, Lemeiux's feat is pretty impressive.

In football, the 100-plus yard punt return for a touchdown is rare.

There is also the issue of separating the rare unaided from the rare aided - for example, holes-in-one are unaided whereas Damon's three hits were all made possible by hits and walks by his teammates and would be considered aided. There's a fine line there - was Lemeiux's penalty shot aided by an unusual ref call or an unusual (well, obviously) act by a player on the opposing team?

I think that even though I qualified the original question, the point is that there are so many variables, consensus is not possible.

[Q]Tom Pasniewski 98 Wrote:

Speaking of hitting for the cycle, there are seven ways to reach base safely that I know of - four being hitting for the cycle plus walking, being hit by a pitch and having the ball get away on a third strike.[/q]

One more way: catcher's interference.

You can also reach base on a fielder's choice and an error (although they don't count for OBP calculations).

How about pitching two shutouts in a single day? I'm at work away from my recordbook, but I know it's been done before. Probably multiple times. Though I'm not sure it's fair to consider feats that are essentially impossible based on the way the game is currently played. No one starts both ends of a DH anymore (doubleheader? what are those?)

The rare baseball feat that I most want to see happen wouldn't qualify here either because I don't think it's ever yet been done: a pitcher striking out five batters in an inning.

[Q]Tom Pasniewski 98 Wrote:


In football, the 100-plus yard punt return for a touchdown is rare.

[/q]

I wonder if anyone has ever had a 100-yard punt return and a 100-yard kickoff return for a touchdown in the same game?

Has any QB ever rushed for 100+ yards and thrown for 300+ yards in a single game? McNabb? Vick? Young?

Morten Anderson kicked 3 50+ yard field goals in one game.

Charlie Gogolak successfully kicked 9 PATs in one game (he also missed one that game).

Charlie McNeil had 177 Interception Return Yards in a single game.

Jamal Lewis once rushed for 295 yards in a single game. I suspect that if he'd broken 300, we'd discuss that a bit more.

That's all I've got.

[Q]jeh25 Wrote:


Has any QB ever rushed for 100+ yards and thrown for 300+ yards in a single game? McNabb? Vick? Young?
[/q]

Manually looking at game logs I found that:

McNabb rushed for 100 yards and passed for 230 against Jacksonville on 10/6/2002.

Vick rushed for 173 yards and passed for *another* 173 yards against the Vikings 12/01/2002.

And for what it is worth, Steve Young once threw 6 TD passes in a Superbowl game.

[Q]Tom Pasniewski 98 Wrote:

I would offer, without the actual names, that playing baseball games for two different teams in the same day is rare but as that's not a single game nor much of a feat since it usually involved trades between teams involved in doubleheaders.
[/q]


In 1982, Joel Youngblood had hits for two different teams in two different cities on the same day. He had a hit for the Mets in a day game against the Cubs at Shea, was traded to the Expos, flew to Philly and a hit in the night game.

unassisted triple play

Another great feat is three errors on one play, last done on July 27, 1988, by Tommy John.

In the fourth inning against the Brewers, John dropped a ground ball (1) threw over the first baseman's head (2) and then took the cutoff from right field and threw over the catcher's head (3).

[Q]KeithK Wrote:

How about pitching two shutouts in a single day.[/q]


I know at last one 19th century pitcher thew complete game shutouts in both games of a doubleheader, but I can't find the name.

I did find: Willie Foster, a Negro League star with the Memphis Red Sox. In 1926, he won 26 consecutive games. On the last day of the season, he pitched shutouts in both games of a double-header to win the pennant!

I was actually at the last game in which an unassisted triple play was accomplished. My then girlfriend made us leave in the 5th inning ebcause it was very cold. John Valentin turned the unassisted triple play in the sixth: [www.baseball-almanac.com]

[q]I was actually at the last game in which an unassisted triple play was accomplished.[/q]Nope. Randy Velarde, then with the A's, did it in 2000 against the Yankees ( [www.baseball-almanac.com] )

the brave's rafael furcal had an unassisted triple play last season.

[sportsillustrated.cnn.com]

[Q]Greg Wrote:

Another great feat is three errors on one play, last done on July 27, 1988, by Tommy John.

[/q]

And for that he got a surgical procedure named after him.

[Q]KeithK Wrote:

The rare baseball feat that I most want to see happen wouldn't qualify here either because I don't think it's ever yet been done: a pitcher striking out five batters in an inning.[/q]

How many times has 4K's in one inning been accomplished. I know how this is done for the statistics but technically, if a K stands for a strikeOUT and nobody gets out on the play, should he get credit for the K - entirely different debate and off-topic.

[Q]min Wrote:

the brave's rafael furcal had an unassisted triple play last season.

[sportsillustrated.cnn.com]


[/q]

I was thinking of this too although we've just given three examples. There is something very pure and simple about the quickness with which this takes place - line drive, step on bag, tag advancing runner and inning over.

[Q]adamw Wrote:

unassisted triple play[/q]

And while Greg was researching the box score, Adam slips in with the first unassisted triple play (post)

[q]How many times has 4K's in one inning been accomplished. I know how this is done for the statistics but technically, if a K stands for a strikeOUT and nobody gets out on the play, should he get credit for the K - entirely different debate and off-topic.[/q]It's still a strikeout in my book. But then again I love the rule for some bizarre reason.

Anyway, 4 K's has been done something like 30+ times in ML history. Interesting factoid: Steve Finley once pulled the trick 3 times in one season (or was it one calendar year? don't remember).

Bringing this subject around to Cornell hockey, here are a few rare single game feats, in chronological order:

1) Cornell gets 70 shots on goal vs. Guelph, and the Guelph goalie makes 66 saves, in a 4-0 Cornell win early in the '67-'68 season. Note: back then, games against Canadian universities were regularly scheduled games, not exhibitions.
2) Cornell scores 19 goals at Yale, Jan. 1968, including two by Dan Lodboa on the same Yale power play.
3) Carlo Ugolini scores 4 goals in 51 seconds in a freshman game in '69-'70. Is there a separate category for rarest one minute feat?
4) Dan Lodboa scores a hat trick by scoring 3 consecutive goals in the 3rd period of the 1970 NCAA final, one even strength, one SHG and one PPG, to break open a 3-3 tie going into the third.
5) And one not so fond memory but still a rare feat, Cornell scores nine goals but still loses vs. UNH in the '77 ECAC semis.

I was at all of the above except the Yale game, which I listened to on radio.

[Q]jkahn Wrote:

4) Dan Lodboa scores a hat trick by scoring 3 consecutive goals in the 3rd period of the 1970 NCAA final, one even strength, one SHG and one PPG, to break open a 3-3 tie going into the third.
[/Q]

I thought I'd seen a box score for that game that showed the SHG, PPG and even strength goals in the hat trick, but when I went poking around TBRW later to make sure, and the box for that game didn't list what kinds of goals they were.

I feel like there should be a special name for a feat of that caliber...if a natural hat trick is 3 goals in succession, maybe a supernatural hat trick is 3 different types of goals in succession, in the same period

There have been 12 unassisted triple plays in baseball history, the last being Rafael Furcal's on August 10, 2003.
There have been 15 4-HR games, Carlos Delgado was the last to do it (Sept. 25, 2003).
And as we all know, Randy Johnson's perfect game last night was the 17th in history...so while these three are all pretty rare, they've also all happened within the last year.

Also...perhaps the most unique thing that could happen is that unassisted triple plays happened on back-to-back days on May 30 and 31, 1927.

Two switch hitters hitting home runs from both sides of the plate in the same game. I believe it has happened only once - Bernie Williams and Jorge Posada for the Yankees against the Blue Jays a couple of years ago.

[Q]jkahn Wrote:
2) Cornell scores 19 goals at Yale, Jan. 1968, including two by Dan Lodboa on the same Yale power play.

I was at all of the above except the Yale game, which I listened to on radio.[/q]
I saw that Yale game on your behalf, Jeff. Dan was still playing forward that season.

[Q]cornelldavy Wrote:
Also...perhaps the most unique thing that could happen is that unassisted triple plays happened on back-to-back days on May 30 and 31, 1927.[/q]
Or perhaps Johnny Vandermeer's back-to-back no-hitters.

[Q]
And because Tom's question made me curious, the record for most hits in a game is 9, by Johnny Burnett of the Cleveland Indians in an 18-inning game in 1932. The record for most hits in a 9-inning game is 7, shared by Wilbert Robinson of the 1892 Baltimore Orioles (incidentially, not the same franchise we know as the Baltimore Orioles today) and Rennie Stennett of the 1975 Pittsburgh Pirates.[/q]


The Baltimore Orioles of 1892 later became the New York Highlanders, which in turn became the New York Yankees.

[Q]Greenberg '97 Wrote:

The Baltimore Orioles of 1892 later became the New York Highlanders, which in turn became the New York Yankees.
[/q]

Well, sort of. The original Orioles of the American Association (1882-1891) and then National League (1892-1899) folded after the 1899 season. The fledgling American League included a Baltimore franchise that was in large part a ressurection of the NL club and at least included John McGraw, the manager. See: [www.baseballhalloffame.org]

This page: [www.fact-index.com] lists the Yankees franchise as having been founded as the Minneapolis franchise of the Western (minor) league, which moved to Baltimore when the Western League became the American League, aspiring to become a major league. According to official MLB history, the AL franchise now in New York was founded in 1901.

And from the meaningless facts department, the current Baltimore franchise of the AL began in Milwaukee as the (original) Brewers. They began in 1893 in the Western League but played one season in AL in Milwaukee before moving to St. Louis. Like the current Milwaukee ballclub, the original incarnation was pretty bad...

Can you tell it's baseball season for me?

What Is the Rarest Single-Game Feat in Sports?

Easy:
The Cubs or Red Sox clinching a critical game 6 in the playoffs. It will never happen

[q] There is also the issue of separating the rare unaided from the rare aided - for example, holes-in-one are unaided whereas Damon's three hits were all made possible by hits and walks by his teammates and would be considered aided. There's a fine line there - was Lemeiux's penalty shot aided by an unusual ref call or an unusual (well, obviously) act by a player on the opposing team? [/q]

Is there any sport other than golf where there is no interaction with any other player? Johnson's perfect game was not accomplished with 27 strike-outs, and even it had been the catcher and opposing team batters would have aided him. I'd say hitting for the cycle was closer to unaided.

What's rare in tennis? Not losing a point? Number of aces?

Has any golfer ever had two holes in one in one round in a tour event? In a major?

When was the last time a hat trick has been scored in the last round of the Stanley Cup Finals? I was looking all over and couldn't find it last night.

Also, has there ever been a goaltender who swept the opposing team while having 4 consecutive shutouts in an NHL playoff round?

Bill Mueller of the Red Sox went one step further last year becoming the only player ever to hit a grand slam from both sides of the plate in the same game. That's part chance that the bases were loaded.

For golf, the odds of a hole-in-one have been estimated at 18,000 to 1 on teeing off on any given hole, getting an albatross (2 on a par 5) placed at 6 million to 1 and on getting two holes in one round at about 67 million to one. But ask most people and they'll say that putting the ball near the flag takes skill but getting a hole-in-one is very much luck. I'd figure based on using 30 teams, 9 players, 5 at bats per game, 162 games and 130 seasons which gives you 28 million individual at bats and then scaling back that number for less teams, less games and an average number of at bats that might be less than 5, that we're talking no more than 20 million individual at bats in baseball history. Just for odds sakes.

Speaking of odds, the latest Vegas odds have the Red Sox at a second-best 3 to 1 to win the World Series and the Cubs, the third-best at 5 to 1 with the Yankees leading at 5 to 2. What's a sure bet? That the odds for at least one of those three teams will get dramatically worse as the season goes on.

[Q]Eric '04 Wrote:

Also, has there ever been a goaltender who swept the opposing team while having 4 consecutive shutouts in an NHL playoff round?

[/q]

J-S Giguere of Anaheim came awfully close last year in the conference finals of the NHL playoffs. He allowed a single goal in Game 1, and then shutout the remaining 3 games.

[www2.nhl.com]

I saw an old lady on the Early Show earlier this year who was being interviewed because she got two holes-in-one in a row. She was commenting on how the chances of that happening were something like 18 million - 1. Anyway, she wasn't a professional, just an old lady.

[Q]Is there any sport other than golf where there is no interaction with any other player? Johnson's perfect game was not accomplished with 27 strike-outs, and even it had been the catcher and opposing team batters would have aided him. I'd say hitting for the cycle was closer to unaided.[/Q]

Sure, bowling a perfect game of 300 has no direct interaction (unless you are bowling against Bil Murray).

I am not sure which is rarer, a 300 game or a hole in one.

Actually there was a piece on Morning Edition today about how 300 games are becoming to common.

[Q]Tom Pasniewski 98 Wrote:
In golf, multiple holes in one are rare as are what I've heard called seagulls and albatrosses, though I think the latter is correct - three-under par on one hole which can only be accomplished with a 2 on a par 5.
[/q]
Short blurb in the Cape Cod Times today about someone who had a hole-in-one and an "albatross," more commonly called a double-eagle, during the same 18-hole round back in the 1930s. It was John Wooden. Figures.

A shutout in lacrosse is rare. In NCAA playoffs, unprecedented. Cornell's shutout of (Hofstra? 1976?) in the NCAA tournament was incredible since it wasn't a chump team but one that qualified for the playoffs. the only thing that could beat it would be two shutouts in the playoffs.

I think when we talk about incredible and rare events, we put a premium on major sports, Olympic events, etcetera. Thus the lacrosse shutout record might be seen as tangental.

The other way you could measure a "rarest feat" would be how long until a record stands before being broken, or how much the record setter broke the previouis record.

Bob Beamon's 29-foot long jump was, what, 3 feet longer than the previous record? And it stood for decades.

Babe Ruth more than doubled the single season and career home run records.

Wilt Chamberlain's 100 points deserves recognition because it's huge and it's a nice round number. And that's verifiable, unlike the number of women he claimed to have slept with, which outpaced Cal Ripken's consecutive games record.

[Q]billhoward Wrote:

A shutout in lacrosse is rare. In NCAA playoffs, unprecedented. Cornell's shutout of (Hofstra? 1976?) in the NCAA tournament was incredible...[/q]
Washington & Lee in the 1976 quarterfinals.

How about breaking a world record in the medal heat of the 200 at the Olympics. . .

. . . and losing by a *lot*?

I'm not sure which is more impressive, Johnson's record, or the time of the second place finisher.

[Q]billhoward Wrote:
Wilt Chamberlain's 100 points deserves recognition because it's huge and it's a nice round number.[/q]

Likewise Brian Lara's 400 runs in a Test cricket innings. Of course he set the record with 375 in 1994, had it broken last year by Matthew Hayden, then got it back last month. So maybe not that rare.

Well, it would appear that a Cornell sports team appearing live on ESPN is a rare feat happening for the first time ever this afternoon.

[Q]Tom Pasniewski 98 Wrote:

Well, it would appear that a Cornell sports team appearing live on ESPN is a rare feat happening for the first time ever this afternoon.[/q]

The Cornell-Penn football game was live (at 10am) on ESPN Thanksgiving Day 1989.

This might not be eligible since it is a team thing, but back in the mid 1990s I saw a game at Fenway between the Twins and the Red Sox. The Twins turned 2 triple plays in the same game. It hasn't been done before or since, so under the original specs of this posting, it might not be eligible, since it hasn't been repeated. Both were simple ground balls to the third baseman with runners at first and second. He stepped on third, threw to second and on to first for the triple play.

From the Cornell Athletic site and presumable Cornell Sports Information:

"The game will be broadcast live on ESPN, as the Big Red will become the first-ever Cornell team to have a game televised live nationally on ESPN."

Somebody has to be wrong.

I'm sure glad that the Big Red are the first Cornell team....wouldn't want those Yellow Jackets or Orange of Cornell to have been the first.

[Q]I was actually at the last game in which an unassisted triple play was accomplished. My then girlfriend made us leave in the 5th inning ebcause it was very cold. John Valentin turned the unassisted triple play in the sixth: [www.baseball-almanac.com][/q]

... and what became of the girlfriend who pulled you away the inning before this momentous event? You ever hear from her?

Guys have many flaws. But when Duke leads Carolina by one with :06 to play (actually, today that would be :06.3) and the Tarheels are shooting a one-and-one, no guy ever perches on the arm of the coach, leans over, looks in your face, and says, "Penny for your thoughts."

[Q]You mean an own goal? Those aren't officially recorded.[/q]

Maybe NHL scorekeers don't write it in the one great scorebook, but every fan who saw the home team lose when a knucklehead defenseman cleared a puck from behind the net and bounced it off the goalie's butt and into the net, they recall who put the shot in.

Multiple holes in one in golf are partly skill but mostly luck, of the 10,000-chimps-typing-eventually-write-the-encyclopedia form. Beating the field by 15 strokes to win the US Open at Pebble Beach, that's brilliance.

The word "nationally" eliminates the 1989 football game. You can be sure that was regional coverage.

But what about last years' NCAA semi vs UHN? Wasn't that on ESPN? Or was it tape delayed?

JH

I think the Cornell - UNH semi was on ESPN2, and then only the final game was on ESPN.

[Q]Jeff Hopkins '82 Wrote:

The word "nationally" eliminates the 1989 football game. You can be sure that was regional coverage.[/q]Are you sure it would be regional coverage at 10AM? I doubt that USC was willing to play at 7AM on Thanksgiving. I would guess that not too many East coast teams were willing to play as early as 10 either. If I were to guess (and it is, of course, only a guess) I would guess that Cornell and Penn moved the game to 10AM to be the national game. I can't imagine why anyone would have wanted to watch the 1989 game, though. And, as we all know, the Athletic Department doesn't make mistakes.

My recollection was that the Cornell-Penn game was national and was scheduled in that time slot prior to the season, mostly because the two schools had tied for first place in the league the prior season and had battled for the title in the last game two seasons before that.

Again, a technicality. Yes, Cornell has been on ESPN2 before and Coach with the team in the background was on the selections how (I think that was on ESPNNews).

[Q]Jeff Hopkins '82 Wrote:
The word "nationally" eliminates the 1989 football game. You can be sure that was regional coverage.[/q]

There was no regional coverage in 1989. ESPN was ESPN and they had an Ivy Football Game of the Week. In 1988 they showed the Harvard-Yale game while Cornell was beating Penn to force them to share the Ivy title. The following year the game at Franklin Field was on Thanksgiving in part so it could get on the TV schedule.

[Q]billhoward Wrote:

Guys have many flaws. But when Duke leads Carolina by one with :06 to play (actually, today that would be :06.3) and the Tarheels are shooting a one-and-one, no guy ever perches on the arm of the coach, leans over, looks in your face, and says, "Penny for your thoughts." [/q]

My wife would probably say "What the hell is wrong you foo'...."

[Q]adamw Wrote:

unassisted triple play[/q]
Thank you, Adam. Can't believe it took that long to get to my favorite baseball rarity.

A close 2nd is the bases-loaded intentional walk. That's obviously less skill and luck than any other feat, as it's a pre-determined strategic event. But think about it...it's fascinating (to me) to come up with the scenario where one team would be willing to give up a free run. Certainly, hitters have been "pitched around" in bases-loaded situations, but an actual IBB with the bases loaded is a rare event. It's only known to have happened 4 times in history: 1901, 1928, 1944, and 1998. The game description of each is listed at the very bottom of this page:
[www.baseball-almanac.com]

I can't believe I was out-of-town for this thread, seeing how this topic is right in my wheelhouse. I've been banging my head against the desk while reading how many factual errors (and corrections) have been made here. Seriously, it's kind of funny reading this entire thread chronologically.

I was in attendance at the game Fernando Tatis hit 2 Grand Slams in the same inning at Dodger Stadium on 4/23/99. It's the only time that has happened. I was cheering for the 2 Grand Slams in the same inning by teammates when McGwire came up with them loaded and 1 out, but he flew out to shallow RF, setting the stage for Tatis. When the 2nd slam went out, only one other person in my section seemed to realize the historical significance. We practically danced a jig in the aisle while Dodger fans leered at us from their various cell-phone conversations. I had won tickets to that game from the local sports-radio station since it was McGwire's first game at Dodger Stadium since the '88 World Series. Thanks Vic The Brick, and thanks Chan Ho.
[www.baseball-almanac.com]

[www.baseball-almanac.com] is a wonderful resource for various baseball oddities and facts.

Preface: I haven't read ALL of this thread, so I don't know if it's been mentioned, but...

I'd think that a pitcher throwing only 81 pitches across 9 innings would be pretty rare...

Actually, has anyone ever done that? Truly a *perfect* game? ...is it even possible?

It has been done and done a number of times and the record is much lower than 81....it's 58. The Baseball Almanac, as Rich mentioned, is an excellent source for such statistics and here is a description of that game:

[www.baseball-almanac.com]

[Q]dss28 Wrote:

Actually, has anyone ever done that? Truly a *perfect* game? ...is it even possible?[/q]
While technically possible, I think the only place that type of performance will ever exist is in really bad hollywood movies. I mean really bad. [www.imdb.com]

Here's one that might never be approached again...on May 12, 1952, Pirates farmhand Ron Necciai struck out 27 batters in a 9-inning game.

[www.usatoday.com]

Then again, sometimes utterly impossible things do happen: [www.olympic.org]

Syracuse making the final four of an NCAA tournament (lacrosse) 22 years in a row is incredible. That's positively Wooden-esque. Especially when you think that in the early 1970s Cornell was pounding Syracuse by scores of 21-3. (I believe the NC women's soccer team has matched that mark of consecutive final fours.)

Yeah, but UNC women's soccer also won 16 championships in those 22 years. Why is there so little parity in women's sports (see UNC soccer, UConn/UT basketball, UMinn/UMD in hockey, etc)?

[Q]Robb Wrote:

Yeah, but UNC women's soccer also won 16 championships in those 22 years. Why is there so little parity in women's sports (see UNC soccer, UConn/UT basketball, UMinn/UMD in hockey, etc)?[/q]

Probably because the talent pool is much smaller, so when one school begins to dominate, the best players all want to play there, which perpetuates the cycle.

Cheers,
Kyle

Women's sports have existed on the cusp of big time only since the early 1970s, in no small part because of Title IX, a law I thought was dumb at the time and now realize was in fact a lever to drag us into realizing that a lot of women would like the opportunity to play sports more seriously than in the past. (Some dumb things happened such as colleges killing men's wrestling in order to have parity with the number of women's sports.)

As women's sports grows, the domination of a UNC is probably going to be less likely.

As all sports grow, dynasties will be less likely. What are the odds John Wooden now could win 7 consecutive NCAA basketball titles and 10 in 12 years? Look at how the D1 men's lacrosse world has grown: UMass, Syracuse (a nobody 30 years ago), Georgetown, Hobart (not D1), etcetera.

All of which makes the Syracuse feat all the more amazing. I suppose Duke's record of making a lot of sweet sixteens and final fours in basketball, just not in a row, could be the most impressive team feat for consistency if not consecutive consistency.

I don't think the UMinn/UMD hockey example is appropo since up until those programs really got started, it was UNH and Providence that dominated women's hockey and then Harvard and to a lesser extent Dartmouth.

Yeah, but if 2 teams had won the last 5 MEN'S hockey championships, I think there would be a lot of head scratching. ->

[Q]Robb Wrote:

Yeah, but UNC women's soccer also won 16 championships in those 22 years. Why is there so little parity in women's sports (see UNC soccer, UConn/UT basketball, UMinn/UMD in hockey, etc)?[/q]

How about Cornell women's polo. Five straight national championships!

[q]How about Cornell women's polo. Five straight national championships! [/q]Again, it's easier to dominate a smaller field.

Actually, the UCONN domination that happened this year is pretty amazing... and both were single games... can that count?

[Q]dss28 Wrote:

Actually, the UCONN domination that happened this year is pretty amazing... and both were single games... can that count? [/q]

No it doesn't. Seriously though it's a team accomplishment and it's like saying that Cal Ripken's record setting consecutive game was a rare feat. That one game wasn't - the games that all led up to it were.

I'm going to offer up that king of sports....that king of smoke-filled rooms and cheap beer....bowling. Well the smoke is gone and in many places so is the cheap beer as more and more new alleys have become ultra-luxurious.

There are those that will argue that bowling is not a sport but having bowled about 600 or 700 games before I turned 18 and enough since to be closing in on 1,000, I can say that there is a lot of athletic ability involved that can be fine tuned through building upper body strength and increasing your balance and coordination especially as you lower your center of gravity. Plus there's an NCAA Bowling Championship.

So, recreational bowlers might think bowling is just one game but in competition, it's a three-game series. The 300 game is not all that rare but still an amazing accomplishment. However, THREE 300-games for a 900 series (perfect series) is a very rare feat. The American Bowling Congress (ABC) oversees such official records and prior to 1997, it happened 11 times in where a league official was on hand to document it but the ABC did not sanction any of those because of improper lane conditions. Improper. lane conditions is beyond the scope of this thread but what you see on tv which even I admit is very boring to watch are official lane conditions. In 1997, the first official 900-game series was recorded and it happened again in 1998 and in 1999 - three official 900-series in total. That's 36 consecutive strikes if you're keeping score.

With the sheer number of people who go out and bowl on any given day because of low cost and greater accessibility, the 900-series is truly a rare feat by an individual.

Sports Illustrated in the past year listed some ten greatest performances by athletes where it could be a game, a season, a career, a single event. I'm trying to recall if it was college only or all sports. Dryden's three-year career at Cornell was one of them.

It was college: [www.members.cox.net]

[Q]KeithK Wrote:
Again, it's easier to domnate a smaller field.[/q]

Not sure I completely buy that. Carrying the argument ad absurium, my older brother and I played nearly 2000 games of ping-pong during our high school days. By the time he left for college, he had won about 10 more games than I had. The "field" was so small that we learned the other's game to the point that we were almost exactly equal...

Michigan has managed to win 9 titles out of the 60 or so NCAA championships awarded - not too shabby. Say there were an average of 40 teams or so playing, then each team "should" have won 1.5 titles, so Michigan is 6x ahead of the game. Contrast that with D-1 women's soccer, which is currently sponored by 295 schools (not exactly a small field). Even assuming that there were only an average of 100 teams per year (i.e. a relatively recent explosion in the number of teams), each team should only have won 0.23 out of the 23 championships awarded. UNC's 17 titles puts them at 73x the expected value - much more dominant in a much larger field.

My comment was that it's easier to dominate a smaller field, not that a smaller field will be dominated. Even aside from the obvious absurdities in your ping-pong example, it would probably be easier for you or your brother to dominate your mini "field" than to dominate a league with 200 people.

You note that Michigan has won 9 of 60 NCAA titles. But the Wolverines illustrate my point. They won 6 of their 9 in the first 9 years of the tournament. They had an easier time racking up the championships in the 50's when there were many fewer teams and the talent wasn't spread around very much.

Note: I said illustrates my point, not proves. It's not easy to prove this kind of theory beyond reasonable doubt, or even preponderance of the evidence. But I think the evidence does lead to this conclusion.

There's size of the field and quality of the field. Before the Ivies left Division I in football, the nine of us conceivably were in the hunt for the NCAA football championship in end-of-season polling. Realistically, we were just nine more schools.

[Q]billhoward Wrote:

the nine of us[/q]

Nine?

Kyle

[Q]krose Wrote:

billhoward Wrote:

the nine of us[/Q]
Nine?

Kyle[/q]

The Ivy schools playing football, the nine, er, eight, of us.