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(OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident

Posted by Kristen 00 
(OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: Kristen 00 (---.avpc.buffalo.edu)
Date: May 14, 2004 02:35PM

More sad news from Athletics:

[cornellbigred.collegesports.com]

Freshman Athlete Jaime McManamon Dies After Car Accident
He was a member of the football and track and field teams


May 14, 2004


• Leave thoughts, prayers, remembrances

ITHACA, N.Y. - James H. "Jaime" McManamon, 19, a freshman at Cornell University and a defensive lineman on the varsity football team and shot-putter on the men's track and field team, was killed in a car accident May 13 on Interstate 86 in Chautauqua County, N.Y.

McManamon was traveling with his mother, Kerry McManamon, 41, and Kelly Smith, 41, to his home in Westlake, Ohio. His 2000 Chevrolet Suburban left the road and rolled over several times. He was airlifted to the Hamot Medical Center in Erie, Pa., and pronounced dead upon arrival, according to police. Kerry McManamon, who was in the rear seat, was ejected from the vehicle and suffered a broken leg. Kelly Smith, in the front passenger seat, suffered minor injuries.

A 2003 graduate of St. Edward High School in Lakewood, Ohio, Jaime McManamon was a major in applied economics and management in Cornell's College of Agriculture and Life Sciences.

"The Cornell community is heartbroken at the news of Jaime's death," said Andy Noel, director of athletics and physical education. "I initially met him during a recruiting visit to campus last spring and he was fine young man and player this past year. He will be missed very much by his teammates and friends here at Cornell."

Jim Knowles '87, head football coach, also mourned McManamon's death. "Jaime was a very positive person who always had a smile on his face," Knowles said. "He was the strongest player on the team as a freshman, and we were expecting him to play for us in the fall on the defensive line. He was a good player, worked hard, was outgoing and easy to like. He was everything you wanted in a player."

In high school, McManamon played on both the offensive and defensive lines as a junior and senior football player. A three-year letter winner, he was the team's co-captain as a senior. He was also a member of the St. Edward's track team and was a four-year letter winner. He was the team's most valuable player as a senior and he qualified twice in regional and district shot put competition. He also set a school record in the shot put.

In addition to his mother, he is survived by his father, James McManamon, two younger brothers and a younger sister.
 
Re: (OT) Cornell football player killed in car accident
Posted by: David Harding (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: May 15, 2004 06:40PM

Another traumatic loss.
Coverage in the Ithac Journal.
[www.theithacajournal.com]
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: Rob NH (---.lndnnh.adelphia.net)
Date: May 16, 2004 07:10PM

Simply horrible. :`(
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: jeh25 (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: June 08, 2004 12:15PM

[Q]Kristen 00 Wrote:


McManamon was traveling with his mother, Kerry McManamon, 41, and Kelly Smith, 41, to his home in Westlake, Ohio. His 2000 Chevrolet Suburban left the road and rolled over several times.

[/q]

Sadly, Detroit still hasn't gotten the message.

[www.nytimes.com]



 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: KeithK (---.external.lmco.com)
Date: June 08, 2004 02:02PM

[q]Sadly, Detroit still hasn't gotten the message.[/q]Maybe I'm just a cynical capitalist at heart, but why change anything when people keep buying SUV's? When there's enough clamor about it and it affects sales they'll make design changes.
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: billhoward (---.ziffdavis.com)
Date: June 08, 2004 05:52PM

The single greatest factor in surviving a crash is whether you wear a seat belt. That SUVs are top-heavy is a given. If they go off the road, especially onto the shoulder or a sloped run-off area, they're more prone to tip.

I'm not a fan of SUVs, our block is over-run by them, I think most people would be better off driving minivans (incredible space efficiency), but there's also a lot of sense-of-self in the vehicles we buy. A lot of non-working moms on our block who drove their kids to sports events in Dodge Caravans five years ago realized this made them soccer moms, so they bought Yukons and Expeditions and now, at least in their minds, they're no longer soccer moms.

A starting point wouldn't be punitive legislation against SUVs. Just take away the advantages they have, such as not having to meet the passenger vehicle mileage requirements and safety standards. And if they didn't have the business-user tax exemptions accruing to vehicles > 6000 pounds gross weight. All these were meant to exempt farm and commercial vehicles and got lost in the past 20 years in the truck craze. Trucks -- pickups, SUVs, minivans -- now account for a slight majority of all vehicles sold.

[Added] This is written without knowing the particulars of McManamon's accident. It's easier to write about traffic statistics in general when you're not talking about what one person and his car did or didn't do.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2004 05:38AM by billhoward.
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: Ben Rocky '04 (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: June 08, 2004 06:01PM

The starting point to improved safety is not to tax SUVs, that will never get passed. Instead it is to do more seatbelt checks with higher fines, give out more speeding, road rage and aggressive driving tickets, and lastly to add a large federal gas tax to keep gas prices high. There is nothing more dangerous on the road then a person speeding in a top heavy vehicle with a sense of invincibility.
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: CowbellGuy (Moderator)
Date: June 08, 2004 06:19PM

No, nothing is more dangerous than AMERICANS speeding in a top heavy vehicle with a sense of invincibility. First of all, Americans don't know how to drive. Start by actually requiring a pulse and a clue to get a license. If people were better drivers, there would be less accidents. Case closed. The second problem is that very sense of invincibility. You pack up these soccer moms in SUVs with seat belts, 20 air bags, crumple zones, rear-view cameras, beeping thingies if you get too close when parking, etc. etc. So now that they feel impervious, they can concentrate on the important things: phones, the kids, the paper, DVDs, and whatever God-all-else they're doing. Anything but driving. I'm vehemently opposed to seatbelt and helmet laws, not because I don't think you should wear seatbelts or helmets, but because it shouldn't be a government's decision. Maybe if people drove around without seat belts, they'd pay more attention. I dunno. Take those seatbelt checkpoints and make sure everyone's registered, inspected, and insured, instead.

 
___________________________
"[Hugh] Jessiman turned out to be a huge specimen of something alright." --Puck Daddy
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: KeithK (---.external.lmco.com)
Date: June 08, 2004 07:37PM

I've got to (mostly) agree with Age here. It's the cell phones, drinks, drive through meals and DVD players that are the most dangerous things about driving. I should have a right to drive without a seat belt - if I want to be stupid I should have a right to since I'm only hurting myself. Don't give me the argument about health costs either, because if you accept that you can use it to outlaw virtually any kind of potentially dangerous activity.

I do agree that the exemptions for SUVs (considering them light trucks) are pretty ridiculous. But that's what you get with government rules - people find and exploit the loopholes. Maybe we should change the standards, but calling for "punitive legislation" to change people's driving habits rubs me the wrong way. It's not right to "punish" people for
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: Jacob 03 (---.carlsl01.pa.comcast.net)
Date: June 08, 2004 08:40PM

well, keith, the health costs argument is specifically the one that allows the government to pass laws like the seat belt ones. and there's nothing requiring that same government to pass restrictions on all potentionally dangerous activity as soon as it regulates one. that's the fun part of being a decision-maker, you get to pick and choose things.

so while seat belt usage is obviously amongst those regulations our government is allowed to (and even encouraged to) make, it's also important to point out it's one of the easiest to enforce (when we actually choose to enforce it). cell phones might be comparable, but intoxication and distracting children are gonna be pretty touch on cops.

there are obviously better laws to make instead of seat belt regulation, but they're politically dangerous. this really is the best "practical" option. it seems to me we elect the lesser of two evils every fours years for president with far less complaint.
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: Ben Rocky '04 (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: June 09, 2004 01:29AM

Well, logically, we shouldn't ban the sale to cigarettes to minors either, because if they want to do stupid things, its their right to. People are going to do stupid things that defy all reasonable logic, and the number of people in hurt or killed in auto accidents is going to climb like hell if we don't do everything in our power to make them use seat belts.

Parents who don't wear seatbelts don't set a good example for children. Do you propose that we let parents make decisions and set examples for their innocent 10 year olds as to whether or not they should wear a belt in the car? Are child belt laws a good idea as they protect children who can't make proper decisions from parents that make bad ones? Or should we not force parents to make the good decision to belt their children in the back and let the them ride unprocted in the front?

Another point: airbags could be used with much more effectivness at preventing injuires if it could be counted on that the passangers in the front were wearing seat belts. Instead, they have to be designed to deploy to catch idiots who don't wear seat belts from going through the windshield and also protect the person wearing the belt.

Age- In New York State, seat belt checks also check registrations and inspections too. They're very useful things.
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: billhoward (---.ziffdavis.com)
Date: June 09, 2004 05:50AM

Drivers have the right to drive without seat belts, and bikers have the right to ride without helmets and leathers, if they're willing to pay a separate insurance rate reflecting cavalier regard for the leading cause of death in people under 30. (Don't confuse the heat and passion generated by AIDS and breast cancer and teen suicide-prevention advocates with their being the leading causes of death for Americans as a whole. Not that you shouldn't care, either, and not that it isn't tragic when it happens to a friend or loved one.)

It would be better if we did a better job enforcing laws than passing new ones such as doubling fines in alleged safety enforcement zones; one wonders if it wouldn't be better to have the same fines and twice as many tickets written, or half-fines and four times as many tickets written, in alleged safety zones.

Other civilized (er, developed) countries have lower auto fatality rates, including Germany with its unlimited speed (other than traffic density) Autobahns. But that's not a fair comparison unless you factor in traffic density. It's harder to kill yourself in Rhode Island than in Montana / Wyoming because in the latter states so much driving is on rural two-lane roads. Anyway, the best measure of traffic safety is deaths per 100 million miles driven. That factors in more miles being driven as the economy expands and the population grows. And the curve for that over time is irrevocably down. (But yes, stricter licensing especially in Europe creates better drivers.)

BTW if you plot traffic fatalities over time, you'll see the death rate fall *before* the government imposed gasoline rationing in 1974. Turns out Americans responded to higher gas prices not rationing.

Also BTW, if you're concerned about the environment, there's way more to be gained by getting old cars off the road than further reducing emissions by new cars. Some estimates have it that 50% of the pollution is caused by 10% of the cars. There are non-invasive ways to monitor including roadside infrared (?) sensors that can roughly but quickly identify gross polluters and have them flagged and pulled over. One downside is the worst polluters tend to be driven by society's least affluent. Pollution would also be eased if we drove more diesel cars, but the way the current regs are written, it's hard for diesels to meet every part of the emissions laws, even with lower-sulfur fuel coming circa 2006, even if the net benefit is better for the environment. Diesels today start easily, don't clatter, don't smoke, and go like a bat out of hell if it's a Mercedes or BMW turbo-diesel you're talking about. Too bad most of them are in Europe.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2004 06:12AM by billhoward.
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: CowbellGuy (Moderator)
Date: June 09, 2004 09:53AM

[q]the number of people in hurt or killed in auto accidents is going to climb like hell if we don't do everything in our power to make them use seat belts.[/q]

Where's your proof? People drive without seatbelts for decades. Now, if we don't require them to wear them, the number's going to skyrocket? But that was hardly my point. I'm not advocating driving without a seatbelt, I'm just saying it should be your decision.

[q]Do you propose that we let parents make decisions and set examples for their innocent 10 year olds as to whether or not they should wear a belt in the car?[/q]

Umm, isn't it a parent's job to set examples for their kids? Maybe we should just take away children at birth and let the government raise them.

[q]Age- In New York State, seat belt checks also check registrations and inspections too. They're very useful things.[/q]

You ever looked around at the rolling shit in Ithaca? You have to pay more attention to mufflers, doors, and other assorted garbage falling off other peoples' cars than to actual driving. Clearly, the inspection process is not working. Why can't a cop ever get off his lazy ass and pull over that beater with no working headlights? And most of those cars probably aren't insured, to boot. The two that ran into my car IN MY DRIVEWAY certainly weren't. My point is there are far more important things that should be dealt with than whether or not someone is wearing a seatbelt.

Bill, if you're saying it's the leading cause of death, then you can't use the health care argument. They're dead :-P

Also, Germany, Austria, and a good chunk of Europe is higher than the US in deaths per vehicle distance driven.



But not by a large margin, despite the aforementioned Autobahn. Why? Because they know how to drive. Driving in Italy is like an amusement park ride. Cops don't care what you do. You can drive 140 k's on the sidewalk between two old ladies in a school zone, and a lot of them do. The difference is they don't hit anything, because they're much better drivers. If we forced people to be better drivers, we wouldn't have to waste money on superfluous legislation. Case closed.

Here are three good commentaries related to this subject by one of my favorite motorsport media guys, Dave Despain:

[speedtv.com]
[speedtv.com]
[speedtv.com]

 
___________________________
"[Hugh] Jessiman turned out to be a huge specimen of something alright." --Puck Daddy
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: Shorts (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: June 09, 2004 10:03AM

Although this seems to be getting quite far off the title topic:
[Q]Clearly, the inspection process is not working.[/Q]As a Connecticut resident, I'd have to say that the NY inspection process works infinitely better than the CT inspection process. Which is to say, we don't have one right now.
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: jeh25 (---.epsy.uconn.edu)
Date: June 09, 2004 11:42AM

[Q]Shorts Wrote:

Although this seems to be getting quite far off the title topic:
Clearly, the inspection process is not working.[/Q]
As a Connecticut resident, I'd have to say that the NY inspection process works infinitely better than the CT inspection process. Which is to say, we don't have one right now.[/q]

Actually, I was gonna make the same point. Having lived in Cali, NY & now CT, I can say that in my experience, NY inspections are by far the best at keeping junkers off the road, all jokes about "ithacars" notwithstanding. Not having had the pleasure of living out of state, Age doesn't know how good he has it.
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: jeh25 (---.epsy.uconn.edu)
Date: June 09, 2004 11:47AM

[Q]CowbellGuy Wrote:
Because they know how to drive. Driving in Italy is like an amusement park ride. Cops don't care what you do. You can drive 140 k's on the sidewalk between two old ladies in a school zone, and a lot of them do. The difference is they don't hit anything, because they're much better drivers. If we forced people to be better drivers, we wouldn't have to waste money on superfluous legislation. Case closed.
[/q]
Fair enough. However, given the poor urban planning decisions we've made for the last 50 years, we *can't* tighten driving standards now without condeming an entire segment of society to poverty. Like it or not, we, as a culture, have made choices for the last half centruy that preclude us from tightening licensing standard. Now we have to live with those choices.
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: Ben Rocky '04 (---.campuslife.cornell.edu)
Date: June 09, 2004 12:39PM

Yes, people have driven without seatbelts for decades. So what? If fewer people wear seatbelts, the number of accidents will stay the same, and the percentage of them resulting in injuries and deaths will go up.

Parents need to set examples for their kids, yes. If they are setting bad examples, I am all for changing their behavior. Call me a liberal. Age, do you think that children should be required to wear seat belts?

JEH25 is totally right. We have created a culture and an urban growth pattern that makes us rely on cars for everything we do. We shift jobs, build malls and situate businesses so that they can be more accessible to cars. Cars are our way of life right now, and as such, need to be regulated. Since airbags and safety glass exist primarily for the benefit of those in the vehicle and not other people on the road, should we stop regulating them too and let consumers decide of they want such features?

We're lucky to be in a State that actually has vehicle inspections. Most don't, Age. I've been pulled over 3 times since I got my license 6 years ago for having a busted taillight or some other minor infraction, and I'm glad that some officers pay attention to such things. Those same officers are hopefully applying that diligence to making sure idiots aren’t killing themselves or their children by driving like Americans with out seat belts.
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: Lauren '06 (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: June 09, 2004 12:47PM

[Q]Shorts Wrote:

Although this seems to be getting quite far off the title topic:
Clearly, the inspection process is not working.[/Q]
As a Connecticut resident, I'd have to say that the NY inspection process works infinitely better than the CT inspection process. Which is to say, we don't have one right now.[/q]
I have even more terrifying stories from, not surprisingly, Florida...

Florida does not have vehicle inspections at all, same as Connecticut. Driving tests for people applying for first-time licenses are done on closed courses, they include no interaction with real traffic, pedestrians, or road signs, and they don't include parallel parking (how people managed to fail this the first time is beyond me, but they've done it). And worst of all... a friend of mine went for her driving test on her sixteenth birthday, a day when the DMV happened to be packed with people. She went up to the desk to get her place in line. Being that she was a cute, docile looking thing with straight A's in school, they simply took her picture and handed her a license without testing her at all.

Yes, I am all for making driving tests more stringent, not to mention making them the responsibility of the nation and not the state, so that stupid things like this don't happen.
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: Greg (---.cust-rtr.swbell.net)
Date: June 09, 2004 01:12PM

I can see the SCOTUS reasoning. Driving = Access the national highway system = Commerce clause = Federal regulation. The Warren court would have done it in a heartbeat.

I'm not that big on state's right but, no, I don't see it -- it should stay a matter of state law. The appropriate remedy for stupid laws is to make them smarter, not turn them over to the Feds. IMHO.
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: Jacob 03 (---.dsl.psu.edu)
Date: June 09, 2004 01:24PM

i'm glad someone else busted out the con law reasoning on this one so i didn't have to be the legal nerd. thanks, greg.

he's right too, laur...er....banshee. i think state governments are generally dumber than the federal government, but changing systems overnight isn't always the way to go. that's why age's proposal for abandoning seat belt laws to improve driving has its problems. even if it eventually improves driving skill down the line, too many people will die during that fun transition period where everyone still drives awfully and fewer people are sporting seat belts.

as for silly state driver's license tests... until 1998 the New Mexico Motor Vehicle Department required someone to simply show up with a birth certificate showing age of at least fifteen years to obtain a license. no test, no classes. and this was the rule, not the exception. and this in the state with the highest percentage of uninsured motorists on the roads (despite being amongst those majority of states that require insurance).


EDIT: removed two unintentional vehicular puns
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2004 01:25PM by Jacob 03.
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: CowbellGuy (Moderator)
Date: June 09, 2004 02:16PM

[Q]Jacob 03 Wrote:
age's proposal for abandoning seat belt laws to improve driving has its problems. even if it eventually improves driving skill down the line, too many people will die during that fun transition period where everyone still drives awfully and fewer people are sporting seat belts.[/q]
I said that very tongue-in-cheek. I also said I feel people should wear seatbelts, but the Libertarian in me doesn't think anyone should be forcing us to. It was all just a part of the argument that already-bad drivers are made to feel even more coccooned, in part due to this type of legislation, resulting in even more diversion of attention from the actual driving.

 
___________________________
"[Hugh] Jessiman turned out to be a huge specimen of something alright." --Puck Daddy
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: June 09, 2004 08:50PM

Deaths per 100 million miles make sense compared within one country over time to balance the effects of population growth and good economic times. And you can make some comparisons among developed countries. In emerging nations, the whole country probably doesn't drive 100 million miles, so it makes more sense to compare it to 100,000 population.

Most of Europe is better than the U.S. on either measure. The U.S. is something like 16 deaths per 100K population, Sweden is down around 5, former Iron Curtain countries can be up over 20. Germany is better than the U.S. (about 10) although the East Germans went crazy circa 1990 when the wall came down, their on-par-with-W Germany marks bought lots of cars, and a lot of them died.

There's a whole fascinating field of study about how best to spend scare resources. Essentially, rear side airbags in $75K Mercedes do not save as many lives as blood pressure screening for people over 40 per million dollars invested. No surprise there.
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: Josh '99 (---.ny325.east.verizon.net)
Date: June 10, 2004 07:53AM

[Q]CowbellGuy Wrote:
I said that very tongue-in-cheek. I also said I feel people should wear seatbelts, but the Libertarian in me doesn't think anyone should be forcing us to. It was all just a part of the argument that already-bad drivers are made to feel even more coccooned, in part due to this type of legislation, resulting in even more diversion of attention from the actual driving.[/q]I believe, to a degree, seatbelt laws are a liability matter as well as a safety one. Not only are you protecting people from their own bad driving, you're also preventing drain on medical resources, financial drain on the insurance industry (which, indirectly, goes on to impact people's insurance rates), things like that. They're not *just* about keeping you from hurting yourself.

That said, I completely agree with you that testing should be more stringent. Way too many people out there on the roads who have no fucking clue what they're doing.
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: jeh25 (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: June 10, 2004 08:13AM

[Q]jmh30 Wrote:


That said, I completely agree with you that testing should be more stringent. Way too many people out there on the roads who have no fucking clue what they're doing.[/q]

Other problem is, everyone that advocates this solution assumes they'd pass. Ever notice that everyone assumes they are a good driver?

Even we assume this is true, think about how others we know would be affected? Like would your mom or grandparents pass? If they had a license taken away, how could they cope with activities of daily living? Could they get to work or buy food? Sadly, the answer is no thanks to sprawl, big box retail and the death of mixed use zoning.

I'm a big fan of free markets when they can actually address a problem, but when
they don't work, we need government regulation instead. (cf free rider problem/ tragedy of the commons). Even better is when the government sets up an artificial free market to address a public problem. For example, I fully support trading of pollution credits and sale of green tags as a free market solution to air pollution.

Anywho, gotta role. More on this later.
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: CowbellGuy (Moderator)
Date: June 10, 2004 08:54AM

[Q]jeh25 Wrote:
think about how others we know would be affected? Like would your mom or grandparents pass?[/q]
I'd be in favor of anything getting my grandfather off the road. But seriously, it's not like there's some genetic predisposition to bad driving in Americans. You think it's something in the water? TEACH them how to be good drivers. Even if it's gradual, we'd be better off for it down the road (no pun intended). Should you immediately revoke licenses? Of course not. But you can make bad drivers better and new drivers good with better training.

 
___________________________
"[Hugh] Jessiman turned out to be a huge specimen of something alright." --Puck Daddy
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: billhoward (---.ziffdavis.com)
Date: June 10, 2004 09:40AM

[Q]But seriously, it's not like there's some genetic predisposition to bad driving in Americans. You think it's something in the water?[/q]

Americans probably do believe there is a genetic predisposition based on national origin toward bad driving. Just never their own national origin. Many Californians believe DWO explains much of the bad driving in that state.

 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: ninian '72 (165.224.215.---)
Date: June 10, 2004 09:56AM

DWO?
 
Re: (OT) Cornell footabll player killed in car accident
Posted by: Jeff Hopkins '82 (---.airproducts.com)
Date: June 10, 2004 12:28PM

"Driving while oriental" which in the PC world should be "DWA". Not to be confused with "FWA" - Flying while Arab.

And taking their cars away is not that much of a burden on seniors as you might think. My dad was forbidden from driving while undergoing chemo last year. He got on with his life just fine. Most major cities have special transport systems for seniors, even those with miserable public transportation systems. And with the internet, it's as easy to shop online as it is to shop in the store, and that includes for groceries.

At least that's what my father, the computer illerate, told me.

JH

 

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